Current Events Rayleigh statement doesn't mean in his Prime he would 100% beat Blackbeard

[Mohammad211]

Rayleigh is a Top Tier. Everyone knows that. Oda has already established that in the story.

This scene was meant to benefit and hype Blackbeard who has no individual post Timeskip feats or achievements, so it's hard to place him in the power structure of the World.

Now we know that Blackbeard is powerful enough that even Rayleigh is uncertain of how a fight would play out between his younger self and Blackbeard, but he knows at his current age, he would not win.

That let's us know that there is no longer room for debate as to whether or not Blackbeard is truly a top tier.

i personally don't think ray was uncertain if he was he would say im not sure if i could win against him even if i was younger not that im old i cant win head on against current bb
BB is top tier with or with out what you think ray statement was dude defeated one of rocks pirates legends defeated whole WBP in a one sided war has 2 op DF is an emperor

Post automatically merged: Sep 12, 2022

He didn't just say he would "lose in old age.". He said he would "stand no chance."

You can't take the phrase "stand no chance" and flip it to infer "I would win"

If the inference was meant to be that he would win in his younger days, then his statement would have been "I can't win in my old age." That would imply that he believes he would win if he was younger.

Saying he believes he stands no chance now, infers he believes he stands a chance if he was younger, not "I would definitely win."

stand no chance also isn't in jp
there is noting about chance or reputation in jp

statement is i become old/ older, i can't win in head on fight against current wb

@EtenBoby i personally don't see stand no chance and asked few of my jp friends about statement their and my english isn't that good is the translation right?
勝てやしない as far as i know mean i cant win

 

[Gol D. Roger]

He didn't just say he would "lose in old age.". He said he would "stand no chance."

You can't take the phrase "stand no chance" and flip it to infer "I would win"

If the inference was meant to be that he would win in his younger days, then his statement would have been "I can't win in my old age." That would imply that he believes he would win if he was younger.

Saying he believes he stands no chance now, infers he believes he stands a chance if he was younger, not "I would definitely win."

正直言って、あの状況だから助けられたが
私も歳をとった、今の黒ひげに正面からは勝てやしない

This is the text. It says something along the lines of, "I am old. I can't beat the current Blackbeard head-on." In other words, he's saying he'd lose coz he's old. Viz and TCB say more or less the same thing:

Spoiler

TCB took some liberty and added the "my reputation" part to the translation, so let's ignore that for the time being. Rayleigh made one thing clear i.e., he'd lose and it's because of old age. Now, a careful reader who looks into technicalities would interpret this as he may or may not have won if he was younger. I do not deny that. I am saying there is no implication of certainty or uncertainty in Rayleigh's words about his younger self winning or losing against BB.

Let's say for instance if Rayleigh was sure he'd have won if he was younger, what do you suppose he'd have said in that scenario? He'd say the exact same thing he said in canon. So we can't say he was uncertain about winning from that statement at a young age.

I doubt Oda thinks that deeply into the stuff when he writes dialogues. Generally speaking, anywhere in the world, when you use age as an excuse to say you can't do something you're well acquainted or familiar with, it generally suggests you'd have done it when you were younger. The fact that BB backed off Rayleigh supports this claim. If Rayleigh wasn't that dangerous in his prime, then it makes little sense for BB to avoid Rayleigh at this age.

 

[Cinera]

With the official translation out I thought I'd make a thread about Rayleigh statement this chapter which has people running with Prime Rayleigh>Blackbeard being definitive or set in stone.


The official translations have clear some things up. First Rayleigh never mentions his reputation being the reason Blackbeard retreat and instead says "Particulars of the situation made it possible to save her". This particulars regarding situation had many factors that were unfavourable to Blackbeard with his crew petrified he'd had to take on the Kuja army alongside Rayleigh and Hancock had Rayleigh been able to free her.

Rayleigh also did not state he would beat Blackbeard in his prime, only that "At my age, I couldn't have possibly won in a Head To Head bout against Blackbeard." Rayleigh is basically telling us that in his current state, he has no chance against Blackbeard. Rayleigh's statement does not confirm that if he had been in his prime, he would have defeated Blackbeard, only that he would have had a chance, unlike he has today.

This is cope lol.

 

[Shanks]

This is cope lol.

Can't understand the narrative if he said " at my age i couldn't have possibly won" , means there's a certainty about his prime level.

Reading manga and taking context with having favorites in the mind all time is the big reason behind this.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

This is the text. It says something along the lines of, "I am old. I can't beat the current Blackbeard head-on." In other words, he's saying he'd lose coz he's old. Viz and TCB say more or less the same thing:

Spoiler

TCB took some liberty and added the "my reputation" part to the translation, so let's ignore that for the time being. Rayleigh made one thing clear i.e., he'd lose and it's because of old age. Now, a careful reader who looks into technicalities would interpret this as he may or may not have won if he was younger. I do not deny that. I am saying there is no implication of certainty or uncertainty in Rayleigh's words about his younger self winning or losing against BB.

Let's say for instance if Rayleigh was sure he'd have won if he was younger, what do you suppose he'd have said in that scenario? He'd say the exact same thing he said in canon. So we can't say he was uncertain about winning from that statement at a young age.

I doubt Oda thinks that deeply into the stuff when he writes dialogues. Generally speaking, anywhere in the world, when you use age as an excuse to say you can't do something you're well acquainted or familiar with, it generally suggests you'd have done it when you were younger. The fact that BB backed off Rayleigh supports this claim. If Rayleigh wasn't that dangerous in his prime, then it makes little sense for BB to avoid Rayleigh at this age.

i personally don't think ray was uncertain if he was he would say im not sure if i could win against him even if i was younger not that im old i cant win head on against current bb
BB is top tier with or with out what you think ray statement was dude defeated one of rocks pirates legends defeated whole WBP in a one sided war has 2 op DF is an emperor

Post automatically merged: Sep 12, 2022

stand no chance also isn't in jp
there is noting about chance or reputation in jp

statement is i become old/ older, i can't win in head on fight against current wb

@EtenBoby i personally don't see stand no chance and asked few of my jp friends about statement their and my english isn't that good is the translation right?
勝てやしない as far as i know mean i cant win

You can't just take the Kanji and use it in the most literal sense, as there would be no sustenance to it. As far as I know, from the Kanji used, to the placement of the Kanji, down to little marks added to the Kanji, changes the context completely. I could be wrong, but as far as I know that's how it works.

That's why a lot of people rely on translations from those who are well versed in Japanese, otherwise the story will read very choppy, and the entire thing gets lost in translation. It's not how literal its written, but how everything is meant to be inferred. And I know Stephen has said on many occasions that he does his absolute best to try and translate it as close to what Oda is trying to convey as possible.

 

[MonsterKaido]

You can't just take the Kanji and use it in the most literal sense, as there would be no sustenance to it. As far as I know, from the Kanji used, to the placement of the Kanji, down to little marks added to the Kanji, changes the context completely. I could be wrong, but as far as I know that's how it works.

That's why a lot of people rely on translations from those who are well versed in Japanese, otherwise the story will read very choppy, and the entire thing gets lost in translation. It's not how literal its written, but how everything is meant to be inferred.

Viz is standard and most accurate anyways

 

[Sanji D Cook]

Blackbeard didn't want any smoke with Rayleigh. That is how infamous The Dark King is. That being said , BB always try to pick his spot. He does not go into a fight if he feels he would loose. Rayleigh acknowledge his infamy was the reason for the situation not escalating.

 

[Fleet_AdmiralKoby]

A Classic

 

[Ryuarashi]

Pretty much confirms what we already knew.

There is a possibility that Prime Rayleigh could best Blackbeard, besides I don't think Blackbeard is even at his strongest right now anyway.