Questions & Mysteries Roronoa Zoro vs Yonko and Oda's protection
- Thread starter Fleet Leader Fenaker
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Zoro at this point can very well control the things he chooses to/not to cut, I.E Monet.
Zoro is more skilled than Kinemon when it comes to cutting. Just because Zoro can't cut fire doesnt make him less skilled at cutting than Kinemon.
The only thing for certain we know Kinemon can cut that Zoro can't is fire. Could Kinemon have Cut through Full Body CoA Pica, or his Golem statue, The BOAT implies to be able to cut through anything since they were all able to cut Kaido.
Who's a more skilled Swordsman, Zoro
Who's a stronger Swordsman, Zoro
Who has been implied to forge a black blade, Zoro.
Every swordsman statistic points to Zoro being better at Kinemon at nearly every category with the exception of cutting fire.
Zoro is more skilled than Kinemon when it comes to cutting. Just because Zoro can't cut fire doesnt make him less skilled at cutting than Kinemon.
The only thing for certain we know Kinemon can cut that Zoro can't is fire. Could Kinemon have Cut through Full Body CoA Pica, or his Golem statue, The BOAT implies to be able to cut through anything since they were all able to cut Kaido.
Who's a more skilled Swordsman, Zoro
Who's a stronger Swordsman, Zoro
Who has been implied to forge a black blade, Zoro.
Every swordsman statistic points to Zoro being better at Kinemon at nearly every category with the exception of cutting fire.
@Charlotte Horchata I tagged you in my post so we can clear up our debate, see what eveyrone else thinks as well.
Why Monet? He can just slash through here without haki and he will just cut snow. He's in fact cutting her so he isn't choosing not to cut here, or the snow would be perfectly intact like the palm leaf or the piece of paper.
Not really, the fact that Zoro can't cut fire but Kin'emon can is by default a reason to doubt the axiom of Zoro being more skilled.
Yes, and how Kin'emon can cut something Zoro can't is already a valid reason to doubt Zoro's superiority in this regard. Anything else are irrelevant "ifs" or examples that don't serve the purpose (In the golem's case, Kin'emon is able to cut rocks but this doesn't mean that he can produce the range to cut so many rock; so it isn't a valid counterexample because it doesn't apply to the breath of things).
Not necessarily in the breath of things.
Not necessarily because of the breath of things.
He hasn't done it yet so I couldn't care less about it. Twenty years ago Kin'emon would kill twenty years ago Zoro no matter how many black blades the former is bound to forge some day in the future.
And that's exactly the category that allows a swordsman to cut Kaido according to the breath of things retconning, so I don't care about any other statistic when it comes to discussing Zoro cutting Kaido.
Not really, the fact that Zoro can't cut fire but Kin'emon can is by default a reason to doubt the axiom of Zoro being more skilled.
Yes, and how Kin'emon can cut something Zoro can't is already a valid reason to doubt Zoro's superiority in this regard. Anything else are irrelevant "ifs" or examples that don't serve the purpose (In the golem's case, Kin'emon is able to cut rocks but this doesn't mean that he can produce the range to cut so many rock; so it isn't a valid counterexample because it doesn't apply to the breath of things).
Not necessarily in the breath of things.
Not necessarily because of the breath of things.
He hasn't done it yet so I couldn't care less about it. Twenty years ago Kin'emon would kill twenty years ago Zoro no matter how many black blades the former is bound to forge some day in the future.
And that's exactly the category that allows a swordsman to cut Kaido according to the breath of things retconning, so I don't care about any other statistic when it comes to discussing Zoro cutting Kaido.
As usual @Charlotte Horchata and his headcanons if kinemon has a stronger CoA and better mastery over it why didn't he tame enma 
and this is the face of someone who can cut Pica's Golem
and this is the face of someone who can cut Pica's Golem
Hence why I made a poll
Mihawk can't cut fire so by that logic Kinemon is more skilled than Mihawk
A face of bravery like Usopp
Mihawk can't cut fire so by that logic Kinemon is more skilled than Mihawk
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As usual @Charlotte Horchata and his headcanons if kinemon has a stronger CoA and better mastery over it why didn't he tame enma and this is the face of someone who can cut Pica's Golem
and this is the face of someone who can cut Pica's Golem
As usual @Charlotte Horchata and his headcanons if kinemon has a stronger CoA and better mastery over it why didn't he tame enma and this is the face of someone who can cut Pica's Golem
and this is the face of someone who can cut Pica's Golem
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What, why? This is baseless.
Wtf are u talking about ? U don't understand shit and u act like u know better than ppl breath of all things is an Adv CoO which makes u sense inanimate objects's presence while Cutting nothing or anything is related to passing your CoA ( will ) into your sword so u can decide what u want to cut another delusion from u if he can cut Pica's Golem why he is afraid of him and why he was afraid / astonished from Zoro's CoA feat / becoming a fanboy in the end while jumping like a clown
▪Let's pass to enma :
To tame enma you need a strong CoA and better mastery also a large reservoir of it kinemon can't tame it because he implied that and if u are one of those clowns here is the answer for u
● Who said Zoro can't cut fire now with his CoA 
Zoro wants to use fire with his fighting style not to cut Fire give me one panel that shows Zoro wanted to learn cutting fire and not using fire he even said he wants a fire sword not cutting fire
Cutting fire /=/ Using fire if just by cutting fire by CoA u can use fire so why didn't ray show it ? Roger / Mihawk / Shanks / Denjiro / kawamatsu / Kiku / ashura doji u said he has breath of all things so that's why he can cut fire and he can injure Kaido so why others didn't use fire while they could injure the same Kaido ? next time bring some great arguments not ur headcanon if Zoro can't cut fire he wouldn't say 《there is nothing i can't cut 》and if Zoro can't cut something he always imply he can't cut it and he wants to learn it but never he said he can't cut fire and even Kinemon said he burns things and that's what Zoro wants
and if you bring birdcage here is the answer
▪Let's pass to enma :
To tame enma you need a strong CoA and better mastery also a large reservoir of it kinemon can't tame it because he implied that and if u are one of those clowns here is the answer for u
LMAOO he said << i say out of kidness if i was u i wouldn't accept it >> he was trying to say to Zoro about the difficulties of taming enma heck even before he finished his words Zoro started finding difficulties in taming enma and after that hitetsu talked about enma's abilities I only see u using headcanons but let's follow them :
- if what u said is true why didn't kinemon try to say this to Zoro before when they were at hitetsu's home and waited until he went to the coastline and just to let u know hitetsu mentioned enma and gave him to zoro under everyone's eyes .
2- now why didn't kinemon say the same headcanon u are using after we saw him tamed enma ?? why didn't he imply to Zoro to leave the sword of oden behind when even Hitetsu made it easy for him by giving Zoro the choice of choosing another sword ?
don't quote with headcanons next time
- if what u said is true why didn't kinemon try to say this to Zoro before when they were at hitetsu's home and waited until he went to the coastline and just to let u know hitetsu mentioned enma and gave him to zoro under everyone's eyes .
2- now why didn't kinemon say the same headcanon u are using after we saw him tamed enma ?? why didn't he imply to Zoro to leave the sword of oden behind when even Hitetsu made it easy for him by giving Zoro the choice of choosing another sword ?
don't quote with headcanons next time
Zoro wants to use fire with his fighting style not to cut Fire give me one panel that shows Zoro wanted to learn cutting fire and not using fire he even said he wants a fire sword not cutting fire
Cutting fire /=/ Using fire if just by cutting fire by CoA u can use fire so why didn't ray show it ? Roger / Mihawk / Shanks / Denjiro / kawamatsu / Kiku / ashura doji u said he has breath of all things so that's why he can cut fire and he can injure Kaido so why others didn't use fire while they could injure the same Kaido ? next time bring some great arguments not ur headcanon if Zoro can't cut fire he wouldn't say 《there is nothing i can't cut 》and if Zoro can't cut something he always imply he can't cut it and he wants to learn it but never he said he can't cut fire and even Kinemon said he burns things and that's what Zoro wants
and if you bring birdcage here is the answer
I'm talking to ppl who said zoro couldn't cut the birdcage you can see what he said in the manga before speaking about it
《The only time we can breathe a sigh of relief is when the Cage disappears for Good. The fact that it's still up is proof that the One man we need to beat is still standing ... 》= It means the cage wouldn't disappear if you didn't take Doffy down even if you could cut it .
So When Zoro didn't try to cut it was the Right decision Because it wouldn't disappear after cutting it with Doffy was still standing .
Ppl claim that Zoro is dumb but ppl who think he couldn't cut the Cage without him even trying that is dumber than him lmao .
Edit : Chapter 779 Viz
《The only time we can breathe a sigh of relief is when the Cage disappears for Good. The fact that it's still up is proof that the One man we need to beat is still standing ... 》= It means the cage wouldn't disappear if you didn't take Doffy down even if you could cut it .
So When Zoro didn't try to cut it was the Right decision Because it wouldn't disappear after cutting it with Doffy was still standing .
Ppl claim that Zoro is dumb but ppl who think he couldn't cut the Cage without him even trying that is dumber than him lmao .
Edit : Chapter 779 Viz
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See? This is why Oda needs to actually explain his retconning on the breath of things. In order for it to make sense you're literally coming up with an ad hoc justification of why this supposed advanced armament involved hearing the breath of stuff, and the "best" thing you can think of is that Zoro not only awakened an advanced version of armament when he had no clue of the basics but also an advanced observation.
Now, let's get this right. First, breath of things isn't "Adv CoO which makes u sense inanimate objects's presence" and therefore a different power than "cutting nothing or anything" as related to armament. It was perfectly clear that these two abilities were the same power and the only way to decide to cut or not tu cut something was by first hearing its breath and then connecting it to your will. Yet in Wano we have Hyogoro offering the exact same explanation on "cutting anything but nothing" by connecting it to advanced armament and armament alone, to the point of the old man needing Luffy's observation to dodge the attacks from the gifters. Now, Zoro couldn't achieve the "cutting anything but nothing" without the breath to begin with, the only reason he could cut steel was that he began to hear its breath coming from Bonez's body since to cut something speciffic you need to connect your will to its breath, so on what basis are you exactly stating that this ability is "related to passing your CoA (will) into your sword so u can decide what u want to cut"? Because this is factually wrong, you don't just cut or not cut according to your will but by connecting it to the breath, and not being able to cut through anything yet cutting steel is what understanding the breath of things is about.
The reason why Zoro cut Bonez was that he heard the breath of its steel and therefore could connect his sword to it. This was pretty clearly shown in Arabasta as one power alone, the breath of things that allows you to cut anything but nothing at the same time. And again, this is why you now need to make up absurd explanations like Zoro awakening some sort of advanced observation (which apparently wasn't needed to cut anything but nothing yet said ability was explicitly said to be what the breath of things is about) or advanced armament for the matter (yet Mihawk spend time teaching him how to blacken his weapons).
It's not that I understand this better than others; it's that I'm actually honest enough to notice the incongruencies and accepting the obvious problems around this power without forcing explanations on how Zoro was an advanced haki user overall in Arabasta and the breath of things and cutting anything but nothing are two different powers.
Nowhere is stated what you need to tame Enma. Tenguyama only addresses that Zoro is a special as he wasn't drained to death, this leaves a huge spectrum of possible factors to why he can survive that that aren't necessarily linked to his mastering on the breath of things. And considering that Oden had full control of Enma by the age of eight I wouldn't rely too heavily on "strong CoA and better mastery" as the reason why you can do so. Kin'emon can't tame it, that's probably right since he didn't even want to give it a shot; whether this is totally related to the strength of your armament, your skill with the breath of things or whatever is up to clarification. Personally, I think Zoro is taming it because he's an ambitious wild beast like Oden and not because of his armament per se.
He's explicitly interested in Kin'emon's ability to cut fire when the samurai performs this power again and he dosn't address his flame sword overall but his cutting technique.
In what context should Roger, Mihawk, Shanks, etc. have shown this power and why do you assume that Denjiro, Kawamatsu, etc. have mastered the breath of things to Kin'emon's level, if they in fact are below them? The breath of things isn't an "all or nothing" technique, you progressively master it by learning how to cut different things, hence why Zoro could cut steel after Arabasta but had problems with Kuma's body and needed a key to open kairoseki cuffs instead of simply cutting them.
"There's nothing I can't cut" but he's explicitly interested on Kin'emon cutting fire as he verbally states (chapter 682). Why exactly is he so interested if he can already cut everything?
Now, let's get this right. First, breath of things isn't "Adv CoO which makes u sense inanimate objects's presence" and therefore a different power than "cutting nothing or anything" as related to armament. It was perfectly clear that these two abilities were the same power and the only way to decide to cut or not tu cut something was by first hearing its breath and then connecting it to your will. Yet in Wano we have Hyogoro offering the exact same explanation on "cutting anything but nothing" by connecting it to advanced armament and armament alone, to the point of the old man needing Luffy's observation to dodge the attacks from the gifters. Now, Zoro couldn't achieve the "cutting anything but nothing" without the breath to begin with, the only reason he could cut steel was that he began to hear its breath coming from Bonez's body since to cut something speciffic you need to connect your will to its breath, so on what basis are you exactly stating that this ability is "related to passing your CoA (will) into your sword so u can decide what u want to cut"? Because this is factually wrong, you don't just cut or not cut according to your will but by connecting it to the breath, and not being able to cut through anything yet cutting steel is what understanding the breath of things is about.
The reason why Zoro cut Bonez was that he heard the breath of its steel and therefore could connect his sword to it. This was pretty clearly shown in Arabasta as one power alone, the breath of things that allows you to cut anything but nothing at the same time. And again, this is why you now need to make up absurd explanations like Zoro awakening some sort of advanced observation (which apparently wasn't needed to cut anything but nothing yet said ability was explicitly said to be what the breath of things is about) or advanced armament for the matter (yet Mihawk spend time teaching him how to blacken his weapons).
It's not that I understand this better than others; it's that I'm actually honest enough to notice the incongruencies and accepting the obvious problems around this power without forcing explanations on how Zoro was an advanced haki user overall in Arabasta and the breath of things and cutting anything but nothing are two different powers.
Nowhere is stated what you need to tame Enma. Tenguyama only addresses that Zoro is a special as he wasn't drained to death, this leaves a huge spectrum of possible factors to why he can survive that that aren't necessarily linked to his mastering on the breath of things. And considering that Oden had full control of Enma by the age of eight I wouldn't rely too heavily on "strong CoA and better mastery" as the reason why you can do so. Kin'emon can't tame it, that's probably right since he didn't even want to give it a shot; whether this is totally related to the strength of your armament, your skill with the breath of things or whatever is up to clarification. Personally, I think Zoro is taming it because he's an ambitious wild beast like Oden and not because of his armament per se.
Who said Zoro can't cut fire now with his CoA Zoro wants to use fire with his fighting style not to cut Fire give me one panel that shows Zoro wanted to learn cutting fire and not using fire he even said he wants a fire sword not cutting fire
Zoro wants to use fire with his fighting style not to cut Fire give me one panel that shows Zoro wanted to learn cutting fire and not using fire he even said he wants a fire sword not cutting fire
Cutting fire /=/ Using fire if just by cutting fire by CoA u can use fire so why didn't ray show it ? Roger / Mihawk / Shanks / Denjiro / kawamatsu / Kiku / ashura doji u said he has breath of all things so that's why he can cut fire and he can injure Kaido so why others didn't use fire while they could injure the same Kaido ? next time bring some great arguments not ur headcanon if Zoro can't cut fire he wouldn't say 《there is nothing i can't cut 》and if Zoro can't cut something he always imply he can't cut it and he wants to learn it but never he said he can't cut fire and even Kinemon said he burns things and that's what Zoro wants and if you bring birdcage here is the answer
and if you bring birdcage here is the answer
"There's nothing I can't cut" but he's explicitly interested on Kin'emon cutting fire as he verbally states (chapter 682). Why exactly is he so interested if he can already cut everything?
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Zoro already used a fire technique against Ryuma:cheers:
Didn't nami and brook say in Chapter 870 that if they wanted to defeat Big Mom they should have brought Zoro.
Reminder: Brook had already fought Big Mom, so if he knew Zoro would be the key to defeating her, he's right!
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Didn't nami and brook say in Chapter 870 that if they wanted to defeat Big Mom they should have brought Zoro.
Reminder: Brook had already fought Big Mom, so if he knew Zoro would be the key to defeating her, he's right!
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