Future Events Sanji's power is in a supposed transformation, not in RS.

Bango🍅

I Can Go Higher
#62
watch the anime and manga you can tell he doesn't use his own speed at all only the boosters are getting used to move
Sanji base speed is faster than germa's boots. The only powerups from RS is just Invisibility and his cape (defense).
So for make the things clear, this my assumption
Sanji Stats (without Raid Suit)
Attack : 7
Defense : 3
Speed : 9
Technique : 7


Sanji Stats (with Raid Suit)
Attack : 7
Defense : 8 (+5)
Speed : 7 (-2)
Technique : 10 (+3)
 
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#63
Lol, not showing the panels where Sanji was blocking stronger attacks from Daifuku without a problem - which already disproves your point here. You are acting like Luffy or Zoro are never send flying and getting damaged by it...that happens all the time in a fight, but did doesn't mean they suck at blocking. Even last chapter Luffy was overpowered and send flying by Ulti, while also getting damaged by it.
In TB for example Sanji had the most impressive block against Oars, yes, even more impressive than the "All mighty" Zoro. Weird that it's also missing in your "collection". I can do the same, take all the panels where someone is send flying and/or damaged by blocking and say they suck at it...
Im not saying sanji is incapable of blocking attacks, Im saying he's not very good at it. It doesnt mean sanjis isnt strong. Franky has better defense than Sanji, And Sanjis a much better fighter than Franky. Zoro very rarely ever gets overpowered from a physical stand point, because physical strength is something Oda constantly highlights about Zoro, whenever you see Zoro struggling in a fight its NEVER related to physical strength. Just like Speed is something Oda constantly highlights about Sanji, When you see sanji struggling in a fight its NEVER related to Speed or agility. Luffy is a combination of both. Believe it or not what makes Sanji one of the top fighters in the crew isnt his physical strength. Its the speed and pin point accuracy of his attacks that makes black leg style effective. Thats why sanji uses more attacks in his 1v1 fights than any other strawhat.Offensively sanjis good but defensively there was never much there,which is why sanji often attacks people and does things before people even realize so he doesnt have to deal with the counter attack.
 
C

critical mindset

#64
Im not saying sanji is incapable of blocking attacks, Im saying he's not very good at it. It doesnt mean sanjis isnt strong. Franky has better defense than Sanji, And Sanjis a much better fighter than Franky. Zoro very rarely ever gets overpowered from a physical stand point, because physical strength is something Oda constantly highlights about Zoro, whenever you see Zoro struggling in a fight its NEVER related to physical strength. Just like Speed is something Oda constantly highlights about Sanji, When you see sanji struggling in a fight its NEVER related to Speed or agility. Luffy is a combination of both. Believe it or not what makes Sanji one of the top fighters in the crew isnt his physical strength. Its the speed and pin point accuracy of his attacks that makes black leg style effective. Thats why sanji uses more attacks in his 1v1 fights than any other strawhat.Offensively sanjis good but defensively there was never much there,which is why sanji often attacks people and does things before people even realize so he doesnt have to deal with the counter attack.

lol here is a Leo Bazooka from Oars, and Zoro gets overpowered by Oars knee with shushui. Sanji literally outperformed Zoro who has just gotten a power up. Sanji not knowing how to block is nonsense. Rather it’s Zoro who is the better at pinpointing attacks I would say, as in see his cutting the 8 blades of the swordsman in fishman island as an example. Sanji showed way better physical strength at TB which was Sanji’s arc lol check my thread about it
 
#65
The raid suit is my perfect power up for sanji if it didn't have those shoes. If you watch the anime Sanji never uses his own legs/speed to move anymore. Everytime he moves its the rocket boosters being used. This changes his style completely and made his training worthless. Thats the only problem i have with the raid suit at the moment. Sanji will never use his own speed/sky walk anymore in fights when he is using the raid suit. Other then that the armor/shield/invsiblity was a nice touch. Zoro has Swords to block attacks. Luffy has rubber which means crashing against walls and impact doesn't affect him only the inital haki'd attack will. Sanji only had his legs and body so he was more prone to taking damage in fights. Invisbility fits his style of stealth and speed.

I don't know what oda was thinking with the rocket boosters and floating devices... what a way to ruin 2 years of training and power up
Oda literally told us the 2 years training didnt matter in chapter 886, when rayleigh said haki blooms in battle. Plus look at all the training oda had luffy do prior to onigashima and luffy is still getting fucked up by people weaker then him. The only time training will likely matter is when its relevant to the plot.
 
#67

lol here is a Leo Bazooka from Oars, and Zoro gets overpowered by Oars knee with shushui. Sanji literally outperformed Zoro who has just gotten a power up. Sanji not knowing how to block is nonsense. Rather it’s Zoro who is the better at pinpointing attacks I would say, as in see his cutting the 8 blades of the swordsman in fishman island as an example. Sanji showed way better physical strength at TB which was Sanji’s arc lol check my thread about it
Sanjis has never outperformed Zoro physically.... Zoro from a physical strength/power stand point is much stronger than Sanji. The damage they do to people is not comparable. Let me provide you with some perspective. We were told pre timeskip The extent of the black leg style is putting a footprint in steel.(which is impressive for a non devil fruit user),BUT Zoro doesnt dent steel he cuts through it. And it gets easier for him to cut steel over the course of pre timeskip, whereas sanji couldnt do much to steel pre timeskip. I think a fight between the two would be high diff but they dont output the same at all.
 
C

critical mindset

#68
Sanjis has never outperformed Zoro physically.... Zoro from a physical strength/power stand point is much stronger than Sanji. The damage they do to people is not comparable. Let me provide you with some perspective. We were told pre timeskip The extent of the black leg style is putting a footprint in steel.(which is impressive for a non devil fruit user),BUT Zoro doesnt dent steel he cuts through it. And it gets easier for him to cut steel over the course of pre timeskip, whereas sanji couldnt do much to steel pre timeskip. I think a fight between the two would be high diff but they dont output the same at all.
Breath of all things is not strength but technique. Zoro was on deaths door against mr.1 who neg diffed him and was way stronger physically. Having easier go at steel just means he got stronger, but boat is a technique, or swordboi cheat rather. There was no strength involved in cutting down healthy Mr.1 who was on a different level physically, it just shows how much of a cheat it is and has nothing to do with strength

Cutting steel is also different mechanism than breaking it by blunt force, and materials respond differently to different modes of force, hence why diamond is almost impossible to cut but can easily be dented and you can easily break of pieces of it just by striking it with a hammer; anvils on which a blacksmith works on (made of forged steel most cases) is extremely tough, meaning that it does not break when you apply force with a hammer or striking tool, it doesn’t break: but it being tough means it loses out on hardness, as such it doesn’t stand up to being scratched such that a knife can leave marks if they make a cut in it (hence the opposite of diamond as I just described) so the worker needs to be very delicate and not scratch it. You can’t apply that logic to materials as you have to see what mode of force is applied and to what type of material.

But wanna talk strength and power?

Sanji did this after taking way more damage than Zoro in TB and this is a strength feat Zoro has no answer for pre timeskip


Here is what Zoro does with Sanji’s help and push


whereas Sanji straight out toppled him over and made him fall on his head.

need I tell you who did better here?

when weapons are taken into account, Zoro needs a power up yet never clashes head on with Oars in this way

see the way Sanji looks at Zoro in the panel :) and Zoro is in total disbelief at what he did

Sanji > Zoro
 
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#69
Breath of all things is not strength but technique. Zoro was on deaths door against mr.1 who neg diffed him and was way stronger physically. Having easier go at steel just means he got stronger, but boat is a technique, or swordboi cheat rather. There was no strength involved in cutting down healthy Mr.1 who was on a different level physically, it just shows how much of a cheat it is and has nothing to do with strength

Cutting steel is also different mechanism than breaking it by blunt force, and materials respond differently to different modes of force, hence why diamond is almost impossible to cut but can easily be dented and you can easily break of pieces of it just by striking it with a hammer; anvils on which a blacksmith works on (made of forged steel most cases) is extremely tough, meaning that it does not break when you apply force with a hammer or striking tool, it doesn’t break: but it being tough means it loses out on hardness, as such it doesn’t stand up to being scratched such that a knife can leave marks if they make a cut in it (hence the opposite of diamond as I just described) so the worker needs to be very delicate and not scratch it. You can’t apply that logic to materials as you have to see what mode of force is applied and to what type of material.

But wanna talk strength and power?

Sanji did this after taking way more damage than Zoro in TB and this is a strength feat Zoro has no answer for pre timeskip


Here is what Zoro does with Sanji’s help and push


whereas Sanji straight out toppled him over and made him fall on his head.

need I tell you who did better here?

when weapons are taken into account, Zoro needs a power up yet never clashes head on with Oars in this way

see the way Sanji looks at Zoro in the panel :) and Zoro is in total disbelief at what he did

Sanji > Zoro
regardless if its a technique or not , it doesnt change the fact that Zoro's damage output is higher than Sanjis. Zoro has more power than Sanji , And he did more damage to oars than Sanji did, you cant dispute that. They both contributed a lot in that battle but as far as damaging oars , Zoro clearly did more in that category. Which is the point of the argument Zoro has more power than Sanji.
 
#70
Sanjis has never outperformed Zoro physically.... Zoro from a physical strength/power stand point is much stronger than Sanji. The damage they do to people is not comparable. Let me provide you with some perspective. We were told pre timeskip The extent of the black leg style is putting a footprint in steel.(which is impressive for a non devil fruit user),BUT Zoro doesnt dent steel he cuts through it. And it gets easier for him to cut steel over the course of pre timeskip, whereas sanji couldnt do much to steel pre timeskip. I think a fight between the two would be high diff but they dont output the same at all.
''Speaking of Red-Leg Zeff''...talking in East Blue!!! about Zeff...has nothing to do with Sanji.
Zoro is much stronger physicaly than Sanji? Are you drunk or something? TB is the best showing that Sanji had a much more impressive feat than Zoro had in that Arc.
Zoro from a physical strength/power stand point is much stronger than Sanji. The damage they do to people is not comparable.
So you argument for Zoro being much stronger than Sanji is because he does more damage? lmao
You do realize that one is using his legs and the other one is using Sharp Weapons - Swords right?. What would cause you more damage? When someone would kick you in the stomach or cut your stomach with a freaking sword?
Obviously the sword would do more damage to you, because it would cut you open. Does it mean the one using it, is physicaly stronger? Ofc not.

Cutting steal is not based on physical strength, it's a technique...
Your Kuma example is also completely nonsense. Kuma's steal is way harder than normal steal - hence why Sanji couldn't damage it (Non DJ) and Zoro's strongest iron cutting attack only scratched it.
But we saw in the next arc - sabaody - that Sanji's DJ attacks were damaging the Pacifista, who have the same steal as Kuma.
And i also can't remember Sanji's DJ ever being overpowered in a head-on-clash.

I also want to remind you, that Sanji was breaking Jybura's Tekkai - who is specialized on that technique and more proficient than Kaku - even with non DJ attacks, while Zoro couldn't break Kaku's. The only attack which would have probably cut Kaku's Tekkai, was Shin sonson. But it was blocked.

Franky has better defense than Sanji,
Franky has better defense than every SH, he is a Cyborg after all.
whenever you see Zoro struggling in a fight its NEVER related to physical strength.
Really?
I guess Zoro is not very good at blocking attacks either.
Luffy gets overpowered in his fights many times - but you are not saying he is bad at it. You literally cherry pick to ''prove'' that Sanji is bad at it, but ignore Zoro's and Luffy's moments where they got overpowered. And i am pretty sure, even now when i showed you panels of Zoro getting overwered (and this are only the one i remember) you stil won't say he is bad at it.

@critical mindset also showed alot of panels, which disproves your statement here.

And like i said before, when someone gets overpowered once or twice in a fight, it doesn't mean much. Happens all the time. Person X overpowers Person Y - but in the next page it's the other away around.
 
#71
''Speaking of Red-Leg Zeff''...talking in East Blue!!! about Zeff...has nothing to do with Sanji.
Zoro is much stronger physicaly than Sanji? Are you drunk or something? TB is the best showing that Sanji had a much more impressive feat than Zoro had in that Arc.

So you argument for Zoro being much stronger than Sanji is because he does more damage? lmao
You do realize that one is using his legs and the other one is using Sharp Weapons - Swords right?. What would cause you more damage? When someone would kick you in the stomach or cut your stomach with a freaking sword?
Obviously the sword would do more damage to you, because it would cut you open. Does it mean the one using it, is physicaly stronger? Ofc not.

Cutting steal is not based on physical strength, it's a technique...
Your Kuma example is also completely nonsense. Kuma's steal is way harder than normal steal - hence why Sanji couldn't damage it (Non DJ) and Zoro's strongest iron cutting attack only scratched it.
But we saw in the next arc - sabaody - that Sanji's DJ attacks were damaging the Pacifista, who have the same steal as Kuma.
And i also can't remember Sanji's DJ ever being overpowered in a head-on-clash.

I also want to remind you, that Sanji was breaking Jybura's Tekkai - who is specialized on that technique and more proficient than Kaku - even with non DJ attacks, while Zoro couldn't break Kaku's. The only attack which would have probably cut Kaku's Tekkai, was Shin sonson. But it was blocked.


Franky has better defense than every SH, he is a Cyborg after all.

Really?
I guess Zoro is not very good at blocking attacks either.
Luffy gets overpowered in his fights many times - but you are not saying he is bad at it. You literally cherry pick to ''prove'' that Sanji is bad at it, but ignore Zoro's and Luffy's moments where they got overpowered. And i am pretty sure, even now when i showed you panels of Zoro getting overwered (and this are only the one i remember) you stil won't say he is bad at it.

@critical mindset also showed alot of panels, which disproves your statement here.

And like i said before, when someone gets overpowered once or twice in a fight, it doesn't mean much. Happens all the time. Person X overpowers Person Y - but in the next page it's the other away around.
If you dont think Zoro has more physical strength than sanji idk what to tell you bruh, Oda constantly highlights physical strength when it comes to Zoro. Sanji is a oriented speed fighter. idk why your even arguing this much when I said it would be a high diff fight.
 
#73
''Speaking of Red-Leg Zeff''...talking in East Blue!!! about Zeff...has nothing to do with Sanji.
Zoro is much stronger physicaly than Sanji? Are you drunk or something? TB is the best showing that Sanji had a much more impressive feat than Zoro had in that Arc.

So you argument for Zoro being much stronger than Sanji is because he does more damage? lmao
You do realize that one is using his legs and the other one is using Sharp Weapons - Swords right?. What would cause you more damage? When someone would kick you in the stomach or cut your stomach with a freaking sword?
Obviously the sword would do more damage to you, because it would cut you open. Does it mean the one using it, is physicaly stronger? Ofc not.

Cutting steal is not based on physical strength, it's a technique...
Your Kuma example is also completely nonsense. Kuma's steal is way harder than normal steal - hence why Sanji couldn't damage it (Non DJ) and Zoro's strongest iron cutting attack only scratched it.
But we saw in the next arc - sabaody - that Sanji's DJ attacks were damaging the Pacifista, who have the same steal as Kuma.
And i also can't remember Sanji's DJ ever being overpowered in a head-on-clash.

I also want to remind you, that Sanji was breaking Jybura's Tekkai - who is specialized on that technique and more proficient than Kaku - even with non DJ attacks, while Zoro couldn't break Kaku's. The only attack which would have probably cut Kaku's Tekkai, was Shin sonson. But it was blocked.


Franky has better defense than every SH, he is a Cyborg after all.

Really?
I guess Zoro is not very good at blocking attacks either.
Luffy gets overpowered in his fights many times - but you are not saying he is bad at it. You literally cherry pick to ''prove'' that Sanji is bad at it, but ignore Zoro's and Luffy's moments where they got overpowered. And i am pretty sure, even now when i showed you panels of Zoro getting overwered (and this are only the one i remember) you stil won't say he is bad at it.

@critical mindset also showed alot of panels, which disproves your statement here.

And like i said before, when someone gets overpowered once or twice in a fight, it doesn't mean much. Happens all the time. Person X overpowers Person Y - but in the next page it's the other away around.
The first time Oda shows Sanji fighting, Its literally a speed feat........ People always comment on Sanjis speed, Over the 2 year time skip Sanjis best feats are all speed related. What does the raid suit do? Make him even faster, even His power ups are related to speed . Zoro has more strength Sanji has more speed its as simple as that. If Sanji wasnt fast, idk whats stopping zoro from low diffing sanji at that point. But Sanji speed is so key, that it makes it a high diff fight. Sanji is strong but we have to stop acting like he has overwhelming power. Oda does not show that, but he definitely has overwhelming speed.
 
#74
Defense has always been a weak point for sanji, he makes up for that with his speed and agility , but its still one of the weak points of Sanji as a fighter. Sanji is not good at blocking attacks. He often gets sent back or injured from doing so, The raid suit allows sanji to actually block attacks and take minimal damage. Obviously this does not determine who would win these fights but it helps sanji in something he was lacking in.
BIIIIINGOOOO!

People do not realize that Sanji is more vulnerable than Luffy/Zoro simply because Luffy's rubber absorbs LOTS of impacts and attacks, while if Zoro fucked up or was careless, what do you think would happen?????



Zoro doesn't get injured mostly, rather it's the SWORD!

So, Zoro basically because his fighting style is swordsmanship, the swords allows him to block without worrying about getting a fatal wound most of the time, it basically gives him a pass sometimes if he got careless like when he faced the guy above...

Sanji on the other hand, regardless if he powers his emotions/diable jambe/demons/satanic powers.... he will STILL be endangering his own body 100times more than Luffy/Zoro.... so Raid Suit is a GREAT buff for him because it gaves him a boost in an area he was suffering from....

In other words, Sanji is more protected with Raid Suit now, than he was before when he puts his body on the line... this is something Sanji truly needed and it was given to STAY..... it gave him invisibility, his dream and you're telling me that he'll throw it? lmao, be real
 
#75
diable jambe is an asspull tho.... sanji didnt develop that.
And so is ashura but there have been foreshadowing for their two power ups
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The raid suit is my perfect power up for sanji if it didn't have those shoes. If you watch the anime Sanji never uses his own legs/speed to move anymore. Everytime he moves its the rocket boosters being used. This changes his style completely and made his training worthless. Thats the only problem i have with the raid suit at the moment. Sanji will never use his own speed/sky walk anymore in fights when he is using the raid suit. Sanji only had his legs and body so he was more prone to taking damage in fights. Invisbility fits his style of stealth and speed.

I don't know what oda was thinking with the rocket boosters and floating devices... what a way to ruin 2 years of training and power up
This is a good thing he can combined his own speed with the rocket boosters + dj as a way to prepel himself to make him even faster. There is a lot he can do with the raid suit and his own style.
 
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#76
I see Wano as a parallel or sequel to thriller bark. The introduction of Ryuma, Shusui and Black blades and first mention of Wano. Sanji wanted Absalom invisibilty powers/received it in wano. Zoro gets Shusui/replaces Shusui. Large villain in Oars and Kaido probably the same race.Big mom is Moria,her abilities is also similar to Moria.
some predictions I have for Wano
Sanji demon/satan form after king or queen torture one of his crew mates.
Zoro will learn to cut fire and produces blue flames( Zoro cutting ryuma)
Supernovas or SH's teaming up against Kaido similar to Oars during thriller bark
Franky dock system will come into play
Tama dango will play a similar role as salt was in TB
Zoro will bury sandai when he visit ryuma grave
I don't think big mom will fall in Wano but if she do, it will be after Kaido
After the battle's over, Blackbeard or another top tier will come to wano(Kuma)
 
#77
I see Wano as a parallel or sequel to thriller bark. The introduction of Ryuma, Shusui and Black blades and first mention of Wano. Sanji wanted Absalom invisibilty powers/received it in wano. Zoro gets Shusui/replaces Shusui. Large villain in Oars and Kaido probably the same race.Big mom is Moria,her abilities is also similar to Moria.
some predictions I have for Wano
Sanji demon/satan form after king or queen torture one of his crew mates.
Zoro will learn to cut fire and produces blue flames( Zoro cutting ryuma)
Supernovas or SH's teaming up against Kaido similar to Oars during thriller bark
Franky dock system will come into play
Tama dango will play a similar role as salt was in TB
Zoro will bury sandai when he visit ryuma grave
I don't think big mom will fall in Wano but if she do, it will be after Kaido
After the battle's over, Blackbeard or another top tier will come to wano(Kuma)
I agree with you 100%
 
#78
demon transformations are stupid and overused to the point to where they have basically become a staple in shonen manga. I'd honestly prefer if Oda didn't go that route.

As for the raid suit, obviously sanji is strong without it. All of the vinsmokes are strong without it. But similar to how the raid suit is a big part of the other vinsmokes' power, it is also going to be a big part of sanji's power. Invisibility is a huge power in of itself. If mastered, it could give sanji insane hax.

a big part of sanji's growth will probably be learning how to mask his aura from CoO in order to make his invisibility more effective. This could also tie into him learning kami-e or a technique similar to gomu gomu no boh, which allowed Luffy to dodge CoO attacks. When used in combination with invisibility, it would give him katakuri-like hax.

The suit will probably stay and grow with sanji. I'm sure that during the past two weeks, the suit likely already got an upgrade and redesign by franky. I think its very likely that the suit will undergo one or two more upgrades by EoS, with at least one of them being by vegapunk. All of this will ultimately lead to the suit being more unique and personal to sanji, than it would be to the vinsmokes.
 

Sanji D Goat

𝔓𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔠𝔢𝔰𝔰
#79
demon transformations are stupid and overused to the point to where they have basically become a staple in shonen manga. I'd honestly prefer if Oda didn't go that route.

As for the raid suit, obviously sanji is strong without it. All of the vinsmokes are strong without it. But similar to how the raid suit is a big part of the other vinsmokes' power, it is also going to be a big part of sanji's power. Invisibility is a huge power in of itself. If mastered, it could give sanji insane hax.

a big part of sanji's growth will probably be learning how to mask his aura from CoO in order to make his invisibility more effective. This could also tie into him learning kami-e or a technique similar to gomu gomu no boh, which allowed Luffy to dodge CoO attacks. When used in combination with invisibility, it would give him katakuri-like hax.

The suit will probably stay and grow with sanji. I'm sure that during the past two weeks, the suit likely already got an upgrade and redesign by franky. I think its very likely that the suit will undergo one or two more upgrades by EoS, with at least one of them being by vegapunk. All of this will ultimately lead to the suit being more unique and personal to sanji, than it would be to the vinsmokes.
I'm fine with Sanji keeping the RS after Wano but I just don't want him to rely on the RS all the time you know?:kayneshrug:
 
#80
And so is ashura but there have been foreshadowing for their two power ups
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This is a good thing he can combined his own speed with the rocket boosters + dj as a way to prepel himself to make him even faster. There is a lot he can do with the raid suit and his own style.
No he can’t combine his own speed watch the anime every time he uses boosters he never uses his own speed. He uses the boosters to move around without wasting energy.
 
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