Speculations Shanks is not who we think he is.

[Paperchampion23]

Okay. I think you're overcomplicating something that's supposed to be very simple, he's been one of the most straightforward characters from the beginning.

What indeed is interesting are Shanks' intentions. He never showed interest in being PK. To me it always seemed like he just wanted to be free, and have fun. But that same desire is what has driven Luffy to want to become pirate king. We could write that off to Luffy's misconception that the pirate king is the most free pirate in the world, while Shanks probably doesn't think the same since he's "smarter" than our hero?

We could say Kaido and BM showed a fair amount of ambition now. Whitebeard also didn't seem to care about being PK. So is the only reason Shanks became a Yonko being free and rampaging across the world? To me he seems exactly that. With addition of wanting that Roger's will lives on.

I respectfully disagree. For all the mysterious aura Oda puts around Shanks, having a "simple" motive to me makes no sense. Oda is known for writing multiple layers onto his biggest characters when it comes to motive: Crocodile, Doflamingo, Dragon Kuma, Blackbeard, etc have multiple layers to their goals and character.

Someone like Blackbeard planned to increase his bounty to become a Shichibukai, in order to enter world government area's and break free 5 of the worst criminals he could find. That took hundreds of chapters to realize the purpose of his true goal and I am oversimplfying it. Kuma's entire motivation for becoming a Pacifista is a mystery. Doflamingo hinted as his underworld business hundreds of chapters before it was tackled. Crocodile wanted more than just to take over a country, it was tied to his interest in an ancient weapon.


This is not an "overcomplication" of Shanks character, im legitimately asking questions based in the mysteries Oda has set up, because that's exactly how it looks to m, same as it did for many other characters in this series. Shanks meeting Gorosei should be the biggest red flag people should notice now, and is a big detractor on him just being "good". Those men are evil and justifiably so. It was done with extreme purpose. Even the editor left a note "what IS this man doing here??" And that is just one of many things you can point out.

I'm just saying, with how Luffy refers to beating Shanks physically and with how Shanks looks at Luffy's bounties in an extremely imposing manner virtually every time, i would NOT be surprised if there is some underlying layer that pits them together. "Friendly competition" to me has never cut out as a true fight for Luffy, that's best left to Mihawk and Zoro. There would have to be a motivation that makes them fight.

I don't think any of this harms the narrative, in fact, I think it massively elevates it to something we haven't really seen before in Shonen: an actual, morally grey final antagonist.

I actually implore people to take this idea seriously, because it has been set up in a way where it makes sense and works. We know virtually nothing about Shanks' character, and I often compare this to someone like Dragon, who is just as enigmatic. The difference with Dragon is, you know what his army's goals are (we just don't know his motivation). There is truly nothing secret about that outside of Kuma's sacrifice. Its all there layed out by virtually good people, including Luffy's brother and Robin. But with Shanks, we cant even virtually say the same thing. Hes appeared more than Dragon, yet we know very little about what he wants with Luffy, what his goals are, why he's not interested in One Piece seemingly, why he meets with someone the RA is intending to defeat (which again, implies that the RA is virtually a good faction, while not really for Shanks) and much more. One has clearly defined goals (with a mysterious motivation), the other is entirely missing their goals and motivation.


If anything Rayleigh fits the description you mention over Shanks, and I think that's an important destinction. Luffy spent even more time with Rayleigh in that regard.


Time will answer this question

 

[Natalija]

I respectfully disagree. For all the mysterious aura Oda puts around Shanks, having a "simple" motive to me makes no sense. Oda is known for writing multiple layers onto his biggest characters when it comes to motive: Crocodile, Doflamingo, Dragon Kuma, Blackbeard, etc have multiple layers to their goals and character.

Someone like Blackbeard planned to increase his bounty to become a Shichibukai, in order to enter world government area's and break free 5 of the worst criminals he could find. That took hundreds of chapters to realize the purpose of his true goal and I am oversimplfying it. Kuma's entire motivation for becoming a Pacifista is a mystery. Doflamingo hinted as his underworld business hundreds of chapters before it was tackled. Crocodile wanted more than just to take over a country, it was tied to his interest in an ancient weapon.


This is not an "overcomplication" of Shanks character, im legitimately asking questions based in the mysteries Oda has set up, because that's exactly how it looks to m, same as it did for many other characters in this series. Shanks meeting Gorosei should be the biggest red flag people should notice now, and is a big detractor on him just being "good". Those men are evil and justifiably so. It was done with extreme purpose. Even the editor left a note "what IS this man doing here??" And that is just one of many things you can point out.

I'm just saying, with how Luffy refers to beating Shanks physically and with how Shanks looks at Luffy's bounties in an extremely imposing manner virtually every time, i would NOT be surprised if there is some underlying layer that pits them together. "Friendly competition" to me has never cut out as a true fight for Luffy, that's best left to Mihawk and Zoro. There would have to be a motivation that makes them fight.

I don't think any of this harms the narrative, in fact, I think it massively elevates it to something we haven't really seen before in Shonen: an actual, morally grey final antagonist.

I actually implore people to take this idea seriously, because it has been set up in a way where it makes sense and works. We know virtually nothing about Shanks' character, and I often compare this to someone like Dragon, who is just as enigmatic. The difference with Dragon is, you know what his army's goals are (we just don't know his motivation). There is truly nothing secret about that outside of Kuma's sacrifice. Its all there layed out by virtually good people, including Luffy's brother and Robin. But with Shanks, we can even virtually say the same thing. Hes appeared more than Dragon, yet we know very little about what he wants with Luffy, what his goals are, why he's not interested in One Piece seemingly, why he meets with someone the RA is intending to defeat (which again, implies that the RA is virtually a good faction, while not really for Shanks) and much more. One has clearly defined goals (with a mysterious motivation), the other is entirely missing their goals and motivation.


Time will answer this question

Shanks having a simple motive doesn't make sense, but Luffy having one does?

Honestly I think you came up with a theory that's more complicated than anything Oda has ever written. But yes, essentially we have yet to see a lot of explanations about Blackbeard and Shanks. Whatever it is, I just hope it isn't stupid.

And yeah, time will tell and we'll have this convo again.

 

[Erkan12]

There is a reason why now mihawk lost his Shichibukai title, and they are chasing him.

He will need a story relevance once again; that could happen via joining Red-Hair pirates. Which is also why mihawk doesn't want to fight with Shanks and apologizes from him, he sees Shanks as his superior.

There is a reason why Shiryu got the ''invisibility'' power, that can negate mihawk's ''hawkeye'' vision ability, Shiryu is the worst match-up for mihawk.

Blackbeard already foreshadowed that they will fight with Red-hair pirates in the future.

Luffy beating Shanks won't be a big thing for the story, that was Luffy's obvious dream fight, and Blackbeard is dream crusher. And Shanks also has big fandom, it won't be good for the story to these two crews fight. There is also a reason why Zoro begged to mihawk, because E.Oda is not planning to these two fight seriously in the future.

Blackbeard beating Shanks, and Shiryu beating mihawk are the perfect hypes for Blackbeard pirates. How can you hype the Blackbeard pirates before fighting with Luffy, Kaido and Big mom will fall to Luffy and his allies, Shanks will fall to Blackbeard.

 

[Natalija]

Blackbeard already foreshadowed that they will fight with Red-hair pirates in the future.

Luffy beating Shanks won't be a big thing for the story, that was Luffy's obvious dream fight, and Blackbeard is dream crusher. And Shanks also has big fandom, it won't be good for the story to these two crews fight. There is also a reason why Zoro begged to mihawk, because E.Oda is not planning to these two fight seriously in the future.

Blackbeard beating Shanks, and Shiryu beating mihawk are the perfect hypes for Blackbeard pirates. How can you hype the Blackbeard pirates before fighting with Luffy, Kaido and Big mom will fall to Luffy and his allies, Shanks will fall to Blackbeard.

I agree with this because it makes most narrative sense.

I'm just afraid it's becoming too predictable, and Oda might try to pull a surprise.

 

[Kromage911]

Exactly my thoughts! I have a theory on Shanks that I plan to write someday. I would really really like him to be at least a grey character rather than simply a 'good' guy. And that's the direction Oda is probably heading to I think.

 

[Erkan12]

I agree with this because it makes most narrative sense.

I'm just afraid it's becoming too predictable, and Oda might try to pull a surprise.

He already demolished Shichibukai, and he give the invisibility to Shiryu, it's the perfect counter for mihawk's hawkeye.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Shanks having a simple motive doesn't make sense, but Luffy having one does?

Honestly I think you came up with a theory that's more complicated than anything Oda has ever written. But yes, essentially we have yet to see a lot of explanations about Blackbeard and Shanks. Whatever it is, I just hope it isn't stupid.

And yeah, time will tell and we'll have this convo again.

Luffy is the main character, and in typical shonen standards, are usually simplistic. By virtue many other characters are usually more complicated. We've known how simple he's been since chapter 1.

And the theory really isn't that complicated, especially when you combine all of the themes Oda has put out there like slavery, racism, political discussions regarding piracy and the like, or having an interconnected "dark web" type economical system (the Underworld) that ties the World Government, multiple royal countries and the Yonko. See how I made it sound more complicated than it is? Keep in mind that Oda would very well simplify what is being discussed here for his readers.


Literally all it takes is to reveal Shanks runs the Underworld for some unspecified motivation/power/strength from God Valley due to Rocks or something ridiculous like that. Thats a shit example, but you know what I mean. The rest of the motivations come from quick exchanges in dialogue with Luffy or anyone else and Oda would make it simpler than I describe

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2020

There is a reason why now mihawk lost his Shichibukai title, and they are chasing him.

He will need a story relevance once again; that could happen via joining Red-Hair pirates. Which is also why mihawk doesn't want to fight with Shanks and apologizes from him, he sees Shanks as his superior.

There is a reason why Shiryu got the ''invisibility'' power, that can negate mihawk's ''hawkeye'' vision ability, Shiryu is the worst match-up for mihawk.

Blackbeard already foreshadowed that they will fight with Red-hair pirates in the future.

Luffy beating Shanks won't be a big thing for the story, that was Luffy's obvious dream fight, and Blackbeard is dream crusher. And Shanks also has big fandom, it won't be good for the story to these two crews fight. There is also a reason why Zoro begged to mihawk, because E.Oda is not planning to these two fight seriously in the future.

Blackbeard beating Shanks, and Shiryu beating mihawk are the perfect hypes for Blackbeard pirates. How can you hype the Blackbeard pirates before fighting with Luffy, Kaido and Big mom will fall to Luffy and his allies, Shanks will fall to Blackbeard.

Once again I respectfully disagree with this idea. Its too tropey in my opinion and isn't really set up outside both characters dislike for each other.

I think Blackbeard and Shanks are tied to the ending, don't get me wrong, but I dont think Blackbeard's crew will pull another "Ace and Whitebeard" on Shanks/Mihawk. Its too much of a fan guess and has been for years, and I've never understood it just like the "Gatekeeper" and "Davy Back Fight" theories.

I'm not sure...what "Hawkeye" vision is and i don't think invisibility negates Color of Observation, its never been explained that way lol. Invisibility just fits Shiryu's slimy character. Zoro has never shown CoO, so it would be a good matchup for Shiryu when it happens. Shiryu to me has never struck as this major final antagonist for Zoro. It would also be super anticlimactic if the one fight we all expected to just died 25 years later due to a conceptualized character who has barely had presence in the story yet.

 

[Natalija]

Luffy is the main character, and in typical shonen standards, are usually simplistic. By virtue many other characters are usually more complicated. We've known how simple he's been since chapter 1.

And the theory really isn't that complicated, especially when you combine all of the themes Oda has put out there like slavery, racism, political discussions regarding piracy and the like, or having an interconnected "dark web" type economical system (the Underworld) that ties the World Government, multiple royal countries and the Yonko. See how I made it sound more complicated than it is? Keep in mind that Oda would very well simplify what is being discussed here for his readers.


Literally all it takes is to reveal Shanks runs the Underworld for some unspecified motivation/power/strength from God Valley due to Rocks or something ridiculous like that. Thats a shit example, but you know what I mean. The rest of the motivations come from quick exchanges in dialogue with Luffy or anyone else and Oda would make it simpler than I describe

Luffy is just one example, the others are fairly simple too. Look at Whitebeard, he only cared about family. It's that straightforward, a pirate wanting a family and becoming a Yonko.

Things like "running the Underground" are not something which fit his character so far at all. You have Doffy as an example, but Doffy has been pained like an opportunistic person from the beginning. If Oda ever pulled that, it'd be shitty writing.

Imagine the dude drinking sake on islands, caves and bars being this overlord or something. He ain't. He's easily approachable and gives opponents a fight when they ask for one. Clearly Oda put most of the pirate spirit into Blackbeard and Shanks.

 

[Erkan12]

We also know why Shanks went to Gorousei, it was for Blackbeard. He will seek help from World Government to defeat Blackbeard. I doubt it was for another pirate.

The guy is obssesed with Blackbeard. He even put his eye scar to his Jolly Roger.

Shanks's whole purpose is to oppose Blackbeard, and then being defeated by Blackbeard, so Luffy will accomplish something that Shanks couldn't do.

Shanks - Blackbeard.

Oden - Kaido.

Luffy first will accomplish the thing that Oden couldn't do, and then he will accomplish the thing that Shanks couldn't do.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Luffy is just one example, the others are fairly simple too. Look at Whitebeard, he only cared about family. It's that straightforward, a pirate wanting a family and becoming a Yonko.

Things like "running the Underground" are not something which fit his character so far at all. You have Doffy as an example, but Doffy has been pained like an opportunistic person from the beginning. If Oda ever pulled that, it'd be shitty writing.

Imagine the dude drinking sake on islands, caves and bars being this overlord or something. He ain't. He's easily approachable and gives opponents a fight when they ask for one. Clearly Oda put most of the pirate spirit into Blackbeard and Shanks.

Whitbeard wasn't at all mysterious, thats my point!

And have you ever watched Breaking Bad? Just because you run an empire, does not mean you have to "act" exactly like your contemporaries. Shanks being carefree has nothing to do with his ability to potentially orchestrate a massive organization. Hes a Yonko!

I also seriously implore you to read back your post and also realize that this same, laid back man, still was shown talking to the Gorosei about matters we know nothing about. That's not normal, and goes against what we DO know about him. They want to purge people, they literally talk about inciting violence AFTER meeting with Shanks.

At the end of the day, people still refer to him as "boss" in Yakuza fashion, his bounty still has Yakuza/gambling connotations, his name still can be a double entendre and not just Red Hair. He still still looks at Luffys posters menacingly as if there is a hidden motive (even if its just to fight). These things ARE Oda staples and things he known for doing in terms of setup.

Just keep an open mind!

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2020

We also know why Shanks went to Gorousei, it was for Blackbeard. He will seek help from World Government to defeat Blackbeard. I doubt it was for another pirate.

The guy is obssesed with Blackbeard. He even put his eye scar to his Jolly Roger.

Shanks's whole purpose is to oppose Blackbeard, and then being defeated by Blackbeard, so Luffy will accomplish something that Shanks couldn't do.

Shanks - Blackbeard.

Oden - Kaido.

Luffy first will accomplish the thing that Oden couldn't do, and then he will accomplish the thing that Shanks couldn't do.

If it was about Blackbeard, Oda wouldn't have made it a mystery to not name the pirate. This is what you call misdirection. He is expecting the fan response to be exactly what you are doing right now.

"Ah, he hates blackbeard so the pirate must be him".

 

[Natalija]

Whitbeard wasn't at all mysterious, thats my point!

And have you ever watched Breaking Bad? Just because you run an empire, does not mean you have to "act" exactly like your contemporaries. Shanks being carefree has nothing to do with his ability to potentially orchestrate a massive organization. Hes a Yonko!

I also seriously implore you to read back your post and also realize that this same, laid back man, still was shown talking to the Gorosei about matters we know nothing about. That's not normal, and goes against what we DO know about him. They want to purge people, they literally talk about inciting violence AFTER meeting with Shanks.

At the end of the day, people still refer to him as "boss" in Yakuza fashion, his bounty still has Yakuza/gambling connotations, his name still can be a double entendre and not just Red Hair. He still still looks at Luffys posters menacingly as if there is a hidden motive (even if its just to fight). These things ARE Oda staples and things he known for doing in terms of setup.

Just keep an open mind!

 

[Seraphoenix]

Nice, thought provoking theory. I just don't see it. Oda sees himself most as Shanks.

He is also based on Tyr, who is ultimately killed by a three headed dog gamyr, which in this case is BB if you look at his Jolly Roger.

 

[Erkan12]

If it was about Blackbeard, Oda wouldn't have made it a mystery to not name the pirate. This is what you call misdirection. He is expecting the fan response to be exactly what you are doing right now.

"Ah, he hates blackbeard so the pirate must be him".

I doubt he will even show the rest of conversation, because it's too obvious.

You can't be thinking that Shanks is betraying Luffy now for no reason? He could've let Luffy die in several occasions. He also think Luffy is the safest bet to defeat Blackbeard.

Every other pirate who is not Yonko is not even worthy to mention for Shanks, obviously Kaido and Big mom were not the pirates he is talking about, so it's Blackbeard.

 

[Flower]

Legit the first time we saw them the Red Hair Pirates said they're pirates, not saints. Shanks is just a pirate. And probably also wants the One Piece. The dark tone likely just comes from the fact that he'll eventually has to fight Luffy which the latter also intends to do btw. For him it's probably that he wants to be defeated by Luffy, but if he isn't able to beat him, then he will just take the One Piece himself.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

We've discussed it many times before and you know my thoughts on it.

Shanks has to be good* otherwise it would cheapen Luffy's whole character who's literally based on Shanks as a role model.

Not to mention that if he truly didn't care, it'd make no sense for him to try to save Ace and later stop the war. Also it's pretty foreshadowed that Shanks is 100% against Blackbeard and all he represents.

*disclaimer: he's still a pirate who fights, of course. You mention Kidd's arm which is not proof of anything, since we already know since day 1 that RHP aren't afraid to get down and dirty.

Luffy didn't look up to Shanks because he was a "good" guy. In fact, Luffy chastised him for choosing to go the pacifist route against Higuma, because he didn't understand why Shanks did that.

Shanks is a pirate, and Luffy knew that Pirates aren't exactly good people when he started idolizing Shanks. They can be good natured in some regards, but ultimately no pirate is truly "good", not even the Strawhats.

Now obviously, Shanks isn't going to be revealed to be some nefarious character, whose been plotting to destroy the World all these years, but he does have a clear cut agenda in mind. He spent a year on Fusha Village preparing to set out on his adventure, and 6 years later he became a Yonko. This implies he had something in mind long before he ever met Luffy. That was just a chance situation that Shanks came across, and he did what he did on a whim.

Also, One Piece has never really been about "Good and Evil" anyways. It's about the morals of the person and them doing what they believe to be correct. That is the pirate life, and the driving point between many of the conflicts within the story. It shouldn't be any different for when Luffy and Shanks meet up. Their morals will clash, and a fight will ensue because of it.

Now you can argue that it should be different because of the role model aspect that pertains to Luffy and Shanks, but Luffy and Usopp have a Captain/Subordinate relationship, and that didn't stop Oda from pitting the two against each other due to moral differences. At the end of the day they will still respect each other and be friends, but the conflict has to come from somewhere. It would be kind of nonsensical after all these years that Luffy just shows up and goes "I became a great pirate, here's your hat, lets fight."

There is no emotional investment to be made out of that, and the conclusion of the fight would be less than desirable. You have to make the readers feel like the two are fighting for something, and fighting for what one believes in, is a staple in One Piece.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I doubt he will even show the rest of conversation, because it's too obvious.

You can't be thinking that Shanks is betraying Luffy now for no reason? He could've let Luffy die in several occasions. He also think Luffy is the safest bet to defeat Blackbeard.

Every other pirate who is not Yonko is not even worthy to mention for Shanks, obviously Kaido and Big mom were not the pirates he is talking about, so it's Blackbeard.

Never said it was Luffy (yes I belive it could be), but it also doesn't imply that his conversation with the Gorosei was about killing or stopping someone either.

And thats the point of narrative misdirect. Oda intentionally left the name unknown, to have one of two things happen. You either guess its Blackbeard, or you question its someone else.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2020

Legit the first time we saw them the Red Hair Pirates said they're pirates, not saints. Shanks is just a pirate. And probably also wants the One Piece. The dark tone likely just comes from the fact that he'll eventually has to fight Luffy which the latter also intends to do btw. For him it's probably that he wants to be defeated by Luffy, but if he isn't able to beat him, then he will just take the One Piece himself.

Its actually fundamentally weird that Shanks has yet to ever outwardly state he wants to be PK or wants One Piece. Thats why many people, including myself, do not believe that is his goal. We can assume all we want, but at the end of the day we are left with mysterious clues as to what his motivation is. He's never been to Laugh Tale, which virtually proves he has no idea where it is, nor does he have access to it. Luffy is probably further along that path than any pirate in 20 years, with almost 3 Road Poneglyphs.

Again, I will always bring it back to this moment, meeting the Gorosei. If it was just about Luffy surpassing him, he would not be meeting with men who can orchestrate the mass murder of people on a whm, and who openly discussed "purging" AFTER their meeting with Shanks.

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2020

Nice, thought provoking theory. I just don't see it. Oda sees himself most as Shanks.

He is also based on Tyr, who is ultimately killed by a three headed dog gamyr, which in this case is BB if you look at his Jolly Roger.

Tbh, im not sure why he's based on Tyr, he has way more connections to the Yakuza i referenced in the OP. All of that is based on the idea that Shanks is fundamentally tied to Elbaf (for some reason which I dont personally understand) and will die by Blackbeards hand there. Thats not to say it can't happen though, I personally just have never truly seen the evidence for it. Id love to hear more tbh

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2020

Luffy didn't look up to Shanks because he was a "good" guy. In fact, Luffy chastised him for choosing to go the pacifist route against Higuma, because he didn't understand why Shanks did that.

Shanks is a pirate, and Luffy knew that Pirates aren't exactly good people when he started idolizing Shanks. They can be good natured in some regards, but ultimately no pirate is truly "good", not even the Strawhats.

Now obviously, Shanks isn't going to be revealed to be some nefarious character, whose been plotting to destroy the World all these years, but he does have a clear cut agenda in mind. He spent a year on Fusha Village preparing to set out on his adventure, and 6 years later he became a Yonko. This implies he had something in mind long before he ever met Luffy. That was just a chance situation that Shanks came across, and he did what he did on a whim.

Also, One Piece has never really been about "Good and Evil" anyways. It's about the morals of the person and them doing what they believe to be correct. That is the pirate life, and the driving point between many of the conflicts within the story. It shouldn't be any different for when Luffy and Shanks meet up. Their morals will clash, and a fight will ensue because of it.

Now you can argue that it should be different because of the role model aspect that pertains to Luffy and Shanks, but Luffy and Usopp have a Captain/Subordinate relationship, and that didn't stop Oda from pitting the two against each other due to moral differences. At the end of the day they will still respect each other and be friends, but the conflict has to come from somewhere. It would be kind of nonsensical after all these years that Luffy just shows up and goes "I became a great pirate, here's your hat, lets fight."

There is no emotional investment to be made out of that, and the conclusion of the fight would be less than desirable. You have to make the readers feel like the two are fighting for something, and fighting for what one believes in, is a staple in One Piece.

Virtually said it better than I could ever have.


Edit: Anyway, have fun guys/girls, I just wanted to provoke the conversation lol. By no means do I think I'm correct, but there are clear red flags to poke at with Shanks and his character. We clearly just don't know enough yet

 

[Natalija]

Luffy didn't look up to Shanks because he was a "good" guy. In fact, Luffy chastised him for choosing to go the pacifist route against Higuma, because he didn't understand why Shanks did that.

Shanks is a pirate, and Luffy knew that Pirates aren't exactly good people when he started idolizing Shanks. They can be good natured in some regards, but ultimately no pirate is truly "good", not even the Strawhats.

Now obviously, Shanks isn't going to be revealed to be some nefarious character, whose been plotting to destroy the World all these years, but he does have a clear cut agenda in mind. He spent a year on Fusha Village preparing to set out on his adventure, and 6 years later he became a Yonko. This implies he had something in mind long before he ever met Luffy. That was just a chance situation that Shanks came across, and he did what he did on a whim.

Also, One Piece has never really been about "Good and Evil" anyways. It's about the morals of the person and them doing what they believe to be correct. That is the pirate life, and the driving point between many of the conflicts within the story. It shouldn't be any different for when Luffy and Shanks meet up. Their morals will clash, and a fight will ensue because of it.

Now you can argue that it should be different because of the role model aspect that pertains to Luffy and Shanks, but Luffy and Usopp have a Captain/Subordinate relationship, and that didn't stop Oda from pitting the two against each other due to moral differences. At the end of the day they will still respect each other and be friends, but the conflict has to come from somewhere. It would be kind of nonsensical after all these years that Luffy just shows up and goes "I became a great pirate, here's your hat, lets fight."

There is no emotional investment to be made out of that, and the conclusion of the fight would be less than desirable. You have to make the readers feel like the two are fighting for something, and fighting for what one believes in, is a staple in One Piece.

I never said pirates were good, pirates are not supposed to be good, and I hope they're bloody not.

And I don't mean good and evil in such a black and white manner.

"It's about the morals of the person" - that is exactly what it's about. And in connection to Luffy Shanks has 100% pure morals, and their morals shouldn't crash because it was Shanks who formed Luffy's morals in the first place.

 

[Lunaria]

I agree that there’s more to Shanks’ character but I don’t think he will end up being an antagonist to Luffy. What we’ll learn about Shanks will make the character deeper but not darker, I think.

 

[Erkan12]

Never said it was Luffy (yes I belive it could be), but it also doesn't imply that his conversation with the Gorosei was about killing or stopping someone either.

And thats the point of narrative misdirect. Oda intentionally left the name unknown, to have one of two things happen. You either guess its Blackbeard, or you question its someone else.

Sometimes, there can't be narrative misdirections, we all know Luffy is going to survive this arc, and he will become the Pirate King in the end. He can't spin this around.

That's no different than Shanks's obsession with Blackbeard, otherwise E.Oda wouldn't go far enough decorate Shanks's Jolly Roger according to the scar he took from Blackbeard. Shanks even fought against Whitebeard because of his obsession towards Blackbeard. E.Oda showed us what Shanks can do for his obsession about Blackbeard. He can go that far (negotiating with Gorousei), only because of Blackbeard, otherwise he wouldn't go that far for any pirate.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I never said pirates were good, pirates are not supposed to be good, and I hope they're bloody not.

And I don't mean good and evil in such a black and white manner.

"It's about the morals of the person" - that is exactly what it's about. And in connection to Luffy Shanks has 100% pure morals, and their morals shouldn't crash because it was Shanks who formed Luffy's morals in the first place.

Luffy does not straight up kill people nor has Oda had any of the main characters go that far. Oda has allowed Shanks to maim and dismember people, just as Kaido has done.

That right there proves that their morals are different, precisely because Oda has explicitly stated he has villains survive to have their dreams crushed by Luffy. Its all about "beliefs", not really "morals". Hence where I think Luffy and Shanks are different.