SKKAK (Sanji killing King and Kaido) ?

Welll ? How do we feel about ZKK now ?

  • Roof argument was dumb anyways

    Votes: 12 28.6%

  • Roof argument was a good theory but this chapter debunked it. We cannot use it as proof anymore

    Votes: 11 26.2%

  • Roof argument is still a good theory. Idc..

    Votes: 7 16.7%

  • Roof theory only applies to Zoro cause I have his D*** in my mouth

    Votes: 12 28.6%
  • Total voters
    42
Lunaria

Lunaria

‎
#141
#141
KiriNigiri said:
A pedantic detail to counterpoint with. It doesn't debunk the overall theme of the chapter. That being the soul/will of a passed swordsman living within the sword they left behind and someone inheriting that will, be it literal or figurative. And Oda bookend that chapter with Zoro inheriting Oden's sword. And one of Oden's wishes before his death was Kaido's defeat.
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spawn said:
No, and he didn't need to.
Do you think the century-old swords given to the samurai are from companions who died before their eyes?
I hope the full page helps because that's a piss poor counterargument. :zosleepy:
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My answer wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it was a way of saying we can't take things too literally. I feel like ZKK supporters mix everything up. Kawamatsu makes a powerful speech about samurais inheriting their companions' will by using their weapons to fight the remaning enemies and somehow it becomes "Zoro will kill Kaido". I would agree about Kawamatsu's speech having a strong symbolic sense tied to Zoro because he took Oden's sword and uses it to fight those who brought darkness to Wano. But then mixing that up with Oden threatening to cut Kaido's head to come to the conclusion that Zoro will kill Kaido is going a step too far in my book. I consider that confirmation bias.

- Enma is Oden's --> Oden died --> samurais inherit people's will through their swords --> Zoro gets Enma and fights Beast Pirates --> Zoro inherits Oden's will = good, logical line of thought in my opinion

- Enma is Oden's --> Oden died --> samurais inherit people's will through their swords --> Zoro gets Enma and fights Beast Pirates --> Oden once said he would cut Kaido's head -->Zoro is going on the roof --> Zoro will kill Kaido = overinterpretation fueled by wishful thinking

That's my stance on the ZKK thing but in no way I mean to disrespect ZKK believers.
 
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spawn

spawn

‎
#143
#143
Princeley said:
it was a way of saying we can't take things too literally
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I think you're the one mixing things up right here. Kawamatsu's message wasn't literal, correct. However, when it comes to Oden's message, there is nothing to suggest that it isn't literal.
Princeley said:
Kawamatsu makes a powerful speech about samurais inheriting their companions' will by using their weapons to fight the remaning enemies and somehow it becomes "Zoro will kill Kaido".
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Kawamatsu makes a speech about samurai inheriting their companions' will by using their weapons and then the following chapter we get Zoro inheriting the will of the one who took on Kaido. Then we get an entire flashback dedicated to that character and in that flashback, he lets us know that he intends to kill Kaido.

Then the next chapter tells, he tells us how he intends to do it.

I'm not particularly sure why you think these are just figurative threats.
Princeley said:
But then mixing that up with Oden threatening to cut Kaido's head to come to the conclusion that Zoro will kill Kaido is going a step too far in my book
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It's not just a threat, Kaido was going to get defeated the exact same way every other dragon in the story has been defeated. The same way Ryuma killed the dragon in Monsters and the same way Zoro killed the dragon in Punk Hazard.
I don't see the point of breaking this consistency just because you don't believe in Oden's intentions being literal.
Princeley said:
- Enma is Oden's --> Oden died --> samurais inherit people's will through their swords --> Zoro gets Enma and fights Beast Pirates --> Zoro inherits Oden's will = good, logical line of thought in my opinion

- Enma is Oden's --> Oden died --> samurais inherit people's will through their swords --> Zoro gets Enma and fights Beast Pirates --> Oden once said he would cut Kaido's head --> Zoro will kill Kaido = overinterpretation fueled by wishful thinking
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Enma is Oden's → Oden died → Samurai inherit people's will through their swords → Zoro gets the sword of the one who fought Kaido → Oden said he will kill Kaido and tells us how he will do it → Zoro kills Kaido the way Oden intended to and the same way every other dragon has been killed in the story = Good, logical and consistent line of thought.

It's good that you challenge these notions because it forces us to prove why they're correct instead of blindly doing it.
 
Lunaria

Lunaria

‎
#144
#144
spawn said:
I think you're the one mixing things up right here. Kawamatsu's message wasn't literal, correct. However, when it comes to Oden's message, there is nothing to suggest that it isn't literal.

Kawamatsu makes a speech about samurai inheriting their companions' will by using their weapons and then the following chapter we get Zoro inheriting the will of the one who took on Kaido. Then we get an entire flashback dedicated to that character and in that flashback, he lets us know that he intends to kill Kaido.

Then the next chapter tells, he tells us how he intends to do it.

I'm not particularly sure why you think these are just figurative threats.

It's not just a threat, Kaido was going to get defeated the exact same way every other dragon in the story has been defeated. The same way Ryuma killed the dragon in Monsters and the same way Zoro killed the dragon in Punk Hazard.
I don't see the point of breaking this consistency just because you don't believe in Oden's intentions being literal.

Enma is Oden's → Oden died → Samurai inherit people's will through their swords → Zoro gets the sword of the one who fought Kaido → Oden said he will kill Kaido and tells us how he will do it → Zoro kills Kaido the way Oden intended to and the same way every other dragon has been killed in the story = Good, logical and consistent line of thought.

It's good that you challenge these notions because it forces us to prove why they're correct instead of blindly doing it.
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I never said Oden's threat wasn't meant to be taken literally, he clearly intented to kill Kaido and was about to do it before the old hag stopped him. But linking this sentence to Kawamatsu's speech to conclude Zoro will kill Kaido is far fetched in my opinion. Just because Zoro inherited Oden's weapon and will, it doesn't mean he needs to do absolutely everything Oden intended to do himself. Don't forget there's Luffy in the mix, the actual main character who promised to beat Kaido and free Wano.

Zoro injuring Kaido with Enma as an ultimate tribute to Oden's character is more than enough and narratively makes sense, but him taking all the glory and nullifying Luffy's promise just because he has Oden's sword doesn't. Zoro isn't the only one who carries Oden's will. Luffy, as the main character, is the one who should fulfill Oden's ultimate's dream. He's the one the Red Scabbards and Momo, Oden's son and future Shogun of Wano, put their faith in. Not Zoro and Enma. I could post an countless numbers of pages to highlight this fact and gives the false impression it adds weight to my post but it won't do that, as everyone already knows this.

spawn said:
It's good that you challenge these notions because it forces us to prove why they're correct instead of blindly doing it.
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It's easy to say they're correct but only the story will tell, the rest has no weight.
 
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HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
‎
#150
#150
Hades said:
it is not his fault though...people change their opinions time to time....before Wano, people, especially Zoro fans are very eager for "Zoro vs Orochi" and now how many other than some anti Zoro squad eager for that final matchup of Zoro?
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How many people called them toxic zorofags etc for having that opinion ?
Just because now they realised theyve been wrong all this time doesnt erase the shit they used to say.
 
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