What's good everybody, let's get right into this one. Short thread explaining the future fight of Smoker vs Kuzan, why it'll happen, the character motivations, the potential character development stemming from this fight. Appreciate the brudda @MarineHQ for inspiring the thread with his question.
The Build Up (So far):
Smoker & Kuzan, one of the first things they do when meeting Luffy for the 1st time is what? Neg-diff him. For Smoker Luffy is saved by his father. For Kuzan, Luffy is saved due to Kuzan owing him one.
As I mentioned, the reason Kuzan didn't kill Luffy is cause he believed he owed him one. For what you ask? Alabasta in taking down Crocodile. And who's the reason Kuzan is aware of it all and does it? You guessed it, Smoker. At this point, chapter 321, Oda establishes a proper connection between Kuzan & Smoker. That they interact with each other on a friendship basis, to the point where Smoker is even tells Kuzan to deliver a message to Luffy for him.
We move on from this similar entries to the series, and the connection between the two being established by chapter 321, to then post-Marineford war. Chapter 594, right near the end of pre-Ts... oh would you look at that Oda draws a conversation between Kuzan & Smoker. Look at how Smoker is sitting, very casual, chill, like how you would when meeting up with your homie. Oda could've done this over a den den mushi or just shown Smoker heading to the new world or anything. But no, instead before we head into the timeskip, he showed us the friendship between Smoker & Kuzan.
In his first and only arc of post-TS, Punk Hazard, Smoker deals with bunch of Ls, some due to ignorance and some due to personal motives. But nonetheless, he doesn't feel good about em. Then by end of the arc... what do we have? Oh hey buddy.. Kuzan is back to interacting with Smoker. And what is the first thing Oda does upon Kuzan's rival? Establishes the relationship between Smoker & Kuzan. So if you had any doubts of them being friends or just close workers or Smoker just being his underling... Oda clears it all up... they're legit friends.
In their interaction, Oda draws some peculiar panels. Kuzan explains to Smoker that he neve thought that World Government was the end all be all. Then Smoker asks whether Kuzan had connections to the Black Market. Kuzan thinks for a bit with "..."
Kuzan then says that he's just him. And it is Smoker this time who thinks for a bit "...." and replies "fine then". Notice the panel arrangement of the shaded close ups to their faces and the conversation arrangement with the "..." before their replies to each other.
At this point Smoker has no idea that Kuzan had joined the Blackbeard Pirates, though Doflamingo had heard rumors about it, stating "they don't sound very good". We of course then come to find out, that Kuzan did join the Blackbeard pirates and is now one of Blackbeard's commanders as the 10th titanic captain. And who're the Blackbeard Pirates? A group of some of the most heinous/evil criminals to exist in One Piece history.
Character Motivations + Etc:
Kuzan's New Role:
Back in Water 7 when Ussop challenged Luffy to a fight over the Merry Go and Luffy beat him... and then handed over the Merry Go out of pity, despite Ussop's loss. Oda then draws a scene of Sanji telling chopper about how the loser would feel when shown pity:
Now the above scene is important because Kuzan went into a death battle with Sakazuki. The fight was set to be last man standing, a pure death battle.
Reason behind the fight? Kuzan did not want to serve under Akainu, who the World Government had already selected to be the new fleet admiral. So Kuzan came out in opposition and thus the two agreed to settle it in a fight. But what happens in the fight? Kuzan loses. Much like Ussop who came in opposition to Luffy and challenged him to a fight and lost. Kuzan being the challenger to Sakazuki's appointment as the fleet admiral fought Saka and took the L, and in taking that L... Sakazuki showed him mercy. He couldn't kill Kuzan. Naturally it'd be hard to work under the guy who showed you pity, so he decided to leave the Marines.
After the fight he had gone into a state of mourning, where he's simply drinking away:
In the state of mourning he meets Blackbeard, who questions Kuzan on what his purpose was now. Blackbeard then proposes to Kuzan that he should come work under him. To which Kuzan replied that he doesn't trust him. And what was Blackbeard's reply? He basically said he doesn't need Kuzan's trust... why? Because that ain't how pirates work. The crew under Blackbeard is gathered simply because they have an alignment of interests. Blackbeard then asks him what Kuzan wants and Oda then off-panels that.
Blackbeard is the one who takes Kuzan out of his state of mourning and puts him on the path to having a goal. So it would make absolutely no sense for Kuzan to turn on the man who gave him the chance and opportunity to accomplish his goals. I don't believe Kuzan is bitch-made. So then sometime later the rumors start to spread that Kuzan has joined up with the Blackbeard pirates:
With Doflamingo then noting that Kuzan is somebody who had made up his mind about something.
Kuzan's new role, he's not some secret marine, and he's not working for the marines. Kuzan is now a pirate under the flag of Marshall D. Teach, serving as one his 10th commanders with full loyalty, he has done mission(s) for Teach, he's held down his base while Teach's away, he's also been a good advisor to Teach. Having joined him just as the impel down prisoners did... for common interests. (Shiryuu/Devon/etc were going to walk away had Teach not gotten the Gura Gura.)
Kuzan, is the 10th Titanic Captain under the command of soon to be the biggest pirate threat in history, Marshall D. Teach.
Smoker's Role:
Smoker is such a unique character right in terms of his treatment by Oda right now. He's appeared in 1 arc post-TS, and has been off-panel since then except for the small reaction to Dressrosa news. Despite us getting new marine figures, all the older figures given screen time from reverie to now.. yet no Smoker. Seeing that he's one of Oda's long term characters and seeing that he's even brought back the likes of Crocodile/Buggy/Wapol/Vivi to give significant moments and times to, there's no way he doesn't have anything planned for Smoker. So this leads to his new role, what is it? Well let's take a look.
Smoker pre-TS is introduced as a character who resides in the East Blue, and he's one of the characters who was inspired by Gol D. Roger's execution, but for a different reason. He wanted to make sure criminals don't get out of hand. So he stationed himself in loguetown, rejecting promotion after promotion. So before his intro, we had experienced only "Bad" marine offcers, the dude from Baratie/Arlong park/Morgan. And we finally get our "Good Marine" officer with Smoker. And even in his intro, he's initially introduced as a Monster due to his DF:
Then in his first appearance, we have a scene with a little girl and her father freaking out thinking Smoker would do something bad to them because of the ice cream. However, instead Smoker gives the child some money, cheers her up with a joke, and tells her to try more ice cream next time. So he breaks the norm and we get our first big "GOOD GUY" Marine. A good hearted soldier who's really just in it to capture criminals.
Then in the aftermath of Alabasta, he does something insane, he stands up to the higher ups of the Marine HQ + World Government, who were trying to give him credit. He defends the SHPs and gives them full credit for what they did, establishing that he's not some blind mf that treats all pirates the same. But along with that he also showcased a tremendous amount of leadership. From him directing units decisively in loguetown to then making sure his underling Tashigi is straight and encourages her to grow further based on her experience. Along with cheering the other underlings. Now please keep this in mind, it becomes very crucial later down the line.
Then we skip straight to Punk Hazard. He experiences suffering blows to his pride, where he's beaten by Law, throws away the fight against Vergo, then mercked on by Doflamingo. No other Marine in the series has gone through this. Since then, he has yet to appear outside of a small cameo post-Dressrosa. Even his right hand woman, Tashigi, has made an appearance in a significant arc that established her as one of the figures who are the future of the Marines. However, something big has happened since his cameo post-Dressrosa. The abolishment of the Warlords, which is what Smoker had wanted since Alabasta, because he felt guilty about not being able to help the civilians of Alabasta due to the law. Then of course is, Cross Guild, an organization composed of the biggest criminal organizations of the world. Along with the rise of Blackbeard pirates making big moves and Smoker's friend now being one of the major figures of that crew.
So what is his role now? The rising star of the Marines who now has to address and solve the issues caused by his goal/ambition of not wanting the Warlord system. He has to deal with Cross Guild. He has to deal with the Yonko movements now that there is no warlord system that's effecting their influence. Keep in mind as I addressed in the Fujitora thread, HE is the one who set into motion the abolishment of the Warlord.
Making of the Fight
One friend has now joined an organization which imo is the most evil out there, consisting of some of the worst criminals in OP history, who the World Government had been writing out of history. The other friend now has the burden to deal with the consequences of his desire/want of destroying the 3 powers system.
One friend has his own goals that he wants to achieve while supporting a Yonko achieve his, while the other friend now has the full greenlight to put down the criminals that he needs to.
A crucial piece that connects Kuzan & Smoker together is actually Punk Hazard. I'm not referring to their meeting there, but what happened in the arc. We had a beloved Vice-Admiral in Vergo, the underlings of G5 cherished this man, but what did he do? He turned on them by harming them. And that is something Smoker doesn't tolerate, his care for his underlings is stressed again in this arc. No other marine officer has been shown consistently caring about their underlings and marine soldiers in general as much as Smoker has. Whether it be his old unit or the new G5 unit. He was legit angry at Vergo for harming the soldiers of G5.
Smoker is also somebody who cares heavily about the civilians, which is why he was so pissed off about Alabasta even 2 years later.
And what has Kuzan done recently? Welllll...... Frozen Hibari, helped the BBPs by taking on Garp while others messed up Koby and such. And of course... contributed in putting down the OG of the Marines, Garp. He's also in an organization that has criminals who're mass murderers of civilians and legendary criminals who the World Government tried to erase from history.
Smoker taking on a marine traitor is something that already happened in the past. Except this time it's a legit friend of Smoker's who he's known for a long time and also recently just saved him. It's a moral conundrum for Smoker. Can he put down the friend that saved his life or be able to bring him back to the Marines? You see Kuzan when he started off in the Marines had "Hot justice", he was fired up to do things, but then overtime it turned into Lazy Justice... and now after leaving the Marines thanks to Teach he's found a goal. Smoker, very much disagrees with the ideologies of Sakazuki and etc, he doesn't agree with the CD or the higher authorities of the World Government...but doesn't quit or leave, he does what wants to for what he believes is good while being in the Marines. And if the higherups disagree? They can fuck off. A mentality very akin to Fujitora's & Garp's.
Fighting style:
Before Hachinuso I didn't really see this going down at all. But what really cements this for me is the fighting style of the two. Logia/Haki/Fists. Now you might say Kuzan has other techniques like Spear and what not outside of his punches, you'd be right, but Smoker also has his Jitte techniques and style. So they're both well rounded while their main power being in their punches. This is very similar to the Sakazuki vs Kuzan concept. Except Smoker would be going in as a heavy underdog and overcoming the wall that is Kuzan.
My outline of Smoker's upcoming conflicts:
-> Something related to Cross Guild alongside Fuji
-> Kuzan fight during BBP vs SHP
-> Gorosei fight at Final War
And somewhere in there would be Luffy vs Smoker, which would be Luffy's biggest Marine fight that's been in the making since chapter 100.
Right now the first priority for Smoker would be dealing with Cross Guild and righting the wrongs that he couldn't at Alabasta. Then the eventual team up with Luffy to take on the biggest criminal threat in history, Blackbeard Pirates. Where his fight against Kuzan should cement him as a solid top tier among the admirals, making him a worthy foe to challenge the Gods in the Final War, where he beats one of the Gorosei members to establish his place among Top 5 EoS and the strongest marine till date.
So Kuzan will fall, but he will fall while contributing to the rise of the future of the Marines.
Kuzan will fight for his goal, Smoker will fight for his beliefs.
Kuzan will represent the present regime, Smoker will represent the Future
Both will have to forsake their friendship
If you believe I'm overhyping, blindly hyping or whatever the case maybe, you're more than welcomed to share. Let me know of your disagreements and agreements. I def. could've gone more indepth with Kuzan and his development from the Ohara incident and how that builds itself into this fight, but I didn't want to do any big character analysis.
Smoker & Kuzan, one of the first things they do when meeting Luffy for the 1st time is what? Neg-diff him. For Smoker Luffy is saved by his father. For Kuzan, Luffy is saved due to Kuzan owing him one.
As I mentioned, the reason Kuzan didn't kill Luffy is cause he believed he owed him one. For what you ask? Alabasta in taking down Crocodile. And who's the reason Kuzan is aware of it all and does it? You guessed it, Smoker. At this point, chapter 321, Oda establishes a proper connection between Kuzan & Smoker. That they interact with each other on a friendship basis, to the point where Smoker is even tells Kuzan to deliver a message to Luffy for him.
We move on from this similar entries to the series, and the connection between the two being established by chapter 321, to then post-Marineford war. Chapter 594, right near the end of pre-Ts... oh would you look at that Oda draws a conversation between Kuzan & Smoker. Look at how Smoker is sitting, very casual, chill, like how you would when meeting up with your homie. Oda could've done this over a den den mushi or just shown Smoker heading to the new world or anything. But no, instead before we head into the timeskip, he showed us the friendship between Smoker & Kuzan.
In his first and only arc of post-TS, Punk Hazard, Smoker deals with bunch of Ls, some due to ignorance and some due to personal motives. But nonetheless, he doesn't feel good about em. Then by end of the arc... what do we have? Oh hey buddy.. Kuzan is back to interacting with Smoker. And what is the first thing Oda does upon Kuzan's rival? Establishes the relationship between Smoker & Kuzan. So if you had any doubts of them being friends or just close workers or Smoker just being his underling... Oda clears it all up... they're legit friends.
In their interaction, Oda draws some peculiar panels. Kuzan explains to Smoker that he neve thought that World Government was the end all be all. Then Smoker asks whether Kuzan had connections to the Black Market. Kuzan thinks for a bit with "..."
Kuzan then says that he's just him. And it is Smoker this time who thinks for a bit "...." and replies "fine then". Notice the panel arrangement of the shaded close ups to their faces and the conversation arrangement with the "..." before their replies to each other.
At this point Smoker has no idea that Kuzan had joined the Blackbeard Pirates, though Doflamingo had heard rumors about it, stating "they don't sound very good". We of course then come to find out, that Kuzan did join the Blackbeard pirates and is now one of Blackbeard's commanders as the 10th titanic captain. And who're the Blackbeard Pirates? A group of some of the most heinous/evil criminals to exist in One Piece history.
Character Motivations + Etc:
Kuzan's New Role:
Back in Water 7 when Ussop challenged Luffy to a fight over the Merry Go and Luffy beat him... and then handed over the Merry Go out of pity, despite Ussop's loss. Oda then draws a scene of Sanji telling chopper about how the loser would feel when shown pity:
Now the above scene is important because Kuzan went into a death battle with Sakazuki. The fight was set to be last man standing, a pure death battle.
Reason behind the fight? Kuzan did not want to serve under Akainu, who the World Government had already selected to be the new fleet admiral. So Kuzan came out in opposition and thus the two agreed to settle it in a fight. But what happens in the fight? Kuzan loses. Much like Ussop who came in opposition to Luffy and challenged him to a fight and lost. Kuzan being the challenger to Sakazuki's appointment as the fleet admiral fought Saka and took the L, and in taking that L... Sakazuki showed him mercy. He couldn't kill Kuzan. Naturally it'd be hard to work under the guy who showed you pity, so he decided to leave the Marines.
After the fight he had gone into a state of mourning, where he's simply drinking away:
In the state of mourning he meets Blackbeard, who questions Kuzan on what his purpose was now. Blackbeard then proposes to Kuzan that he should come work under him. To which Kuzan replied that he doesn't trust him. And what was Blackbeard's reply? He basically said he doesn't need Kuzan's trust... why? Because that ain't how pirates work. The crew under Blackbeard is gathered simply because they have an alignment of interests. Blackbeard then asks him what Kuzan wants and Oda then off-panels that.
Blackbeard is the one who takes Kuzan out of his state of mourning and puts him on the path to having a goal. So it would make absolutely no sense for Kuzan to turn on the man who gave him the chance and opportunity to accomplish his goals. I don't believe Kuzan is bitch-made. So then sometime later the rumors start to spread that Kuzan has joined up with the Blackbeard pirates:
With Doflamingo then noting that Kuzan is somebody who had made up his mind about something.
Kuzan's new role, he's not some secret marine, and he's not working for the marines. Kuzan is now a pirate under the flag of Marshall D. Teach, serving as one his 10th commanders with full loyalty, he has done mission(s) for Teach, he's held down his base while Teach's away, he's also been a good advisor to Teach. Having joined him just as the impel down prisoners did... for common interests. (Shiryuu/Devon/etc were going to walk away had Teach not gotten the Gura Gura.)
Kuzan, is the 10th Titanic Captain under the command of soon to be the biggest pirate threat in history, Marshall D. Teach.
Smoker's Role:
Smoker is such a unique character right in terms of his treatment by Oda right now. He's appeared in 1 arc post-TS, and has been off-panel since then except for the small reaction to Dressrosa news. Despite us getting new marine figures, all the older figures given screen time from reverie to now.. yet no Smoker. Seeing that he's one of Oda's long term characters and seeing that he's even brought back the likes of Crocodile/Buggy/Wapol/Vivi to give significant moments and times to, there's no way he doesn't have anything planned for Smoker. So this leads to his new role, what is it? Well let's take a look.
Smoker pre-TS is introduced as a character who resides in the East Blue, and he's one of the characters who was inspired by Gol D. Roger's execution, but for a different reason. He wanted to make sure criminals don't get out of hand. So he stationed himself in loguetown, rejecting promotion after promotion. So before his intro, we had experienced only "Bad" marine offcers, the dude from Baratie/Arlong park/Morgan. And we finally get our "Good Marine" officer with Smoker. And even in his intro, he's initially introduced as a Monster due to his DF:
Then in his first appearance, we have a scene with a little girl and her father freaking out thinking Smoker would do something bad to them because of the ice cream. However, instead Smoker gives the child some money, cheers her up with a joke, and tells her to try more ice cream next time. So he breaks the norm and we get our first big "GOOD GUY" Marine. A good hearted soldier who's really just in it to capture criminals.
Then in the aftermath of Alabasta, he does something insane, he stands up to the higher ups of the Marine HQ + World Government, who were trying to give him credit. He defends the SHPs and gives them full credit for what they did, establishing that he's not some blind mf that treats all pirates the same. But along with that he also showcased a tremendous amount of leadership. From him directing units decisively in loguetown to then making sure his underling Tashigi is straight and encourages her to grow further based on her experience. Along with cheering the other underlings. Now please keep this in mind, it becomes very crucial later down the line.
Then we skip straight to Punk Hazard. He experiences suffering blows to his pride, where he's beaten by Law, throws away the fight against Vergo, then mercked on by Doflamingo. No other Marine in the series has gone through this. Since then, he has yet to appear outside of a small cameo post-Dressrosa. Even his right hand woman, Tashigi, has made an appearance in a significant arc that established her as one of the figures who are the future of the Marines. However, something big has happened since his cameo post-Dressrosa. The abolishment of the Warlords, which is what Smoker had wanted since Alabasta, because he felt guilty about not being able to help the civilians of Alabasta due to the law. Then of course is, Cross Guild, an organization composed of the biggest criminal organizations of the world. Along with the rise of Blackbeard pirates making big moves and Smoker's friend now being one of the major figures of that crew.
So what is his role now? The rising star of the Marines who now has to address and solve the issues caused by his goal/ambition of not wanting the Warlord system. He has to deal with Cross Guild. He has to deal with the Yonko movements now that there is no warlord system that's effecting their influence. Keep in mind as I addressed in the Fujitora thread, HE is the one who set into motion the abolishment of the Warlord.
Making of the Fight
One friend has now joined an organization which imo is the most evil out there, consisting of some of the worst criminals in OP history, who the World Government had been writing out of history. The other friend now has the burden to deal with the consequences of his desire/want of destroying the 3 powers system.
One friend has his own goals that he wants to achieve while supporting a Yonko achieve his, while the other friend now has the full greenlight to put down the criminals that he needs to.
A crucial piece that connects Kuzan & Smoker together is actually Punk Hazard. I'm not referring to their meeting there, but what happened in the arc. We had a beloved Vice-Admiral in Vergo, the underlings of G5 cherished this man, but what did he do? He turned on them by harming them. And that is something Smoker doesn't tolerate, his care for his underlings is stressed again in this arc. No other marine officer has been shown consistently caring about their underlings and marine soldiers in general as much as Smoker has. Whether it be his old unit or the new G5 unit. He was legit angry at Vergo for harming the soldiers of G5.
Smoker is also somebody who cares heavily about the civilians, which is why he was so pissed off about Alabasta even 2 years later.
And what has Kuzan done recently? Welllll...... Frozen Hibari, helped the BBPs by taking on Garp while others messed up Koby and such. And of course... contributed in putting down the OG of the Marines, Garp. He's also in an organization that has criminals who're mass murderers of civilians and legendary criminals who the World Government tried to erase from history.
Smoker taking on a marine traitor is something that already happened in the past. Except this time it's a legit friend of Smoker's who he's known for a long time and also recently just saved him. It's a moral conundrum for Smoker. Can he put down the friend that saved his life or be able to bring him back to the Marines? You see Kuzan when he started off in the Marines had "Hot justice", he was fired up to do things, but then overtime it turned into Lazy Justice... and now after leaving the Marines thanks to Teach he's found a goal. Smoker, very much disagrees with the ideologies of Sakazuki and etc, he doesn't agree with the CD or the higher authorities of the World Government...but doesn't quit or leave, he does what wants to for what he believes is good while being in the Marines. And if the higherups disagree? They can fuck off. A mentality very akin to Fujitora's & Garp's.
Fighting style:
Before Hachinuso I didn't really see this going down at all. But what really cements this for me is the fighting style of the two. Logia/Haki/Fists. Now you might say Kuzan has other techniques like Spear and what not outside of his punches, you'd be right, but Smoker also has his Jitte techniques and style. So they're both well rounded while their main power being in their punches. This is very similar to the Sakazuki vs Kuzan concept. Except Smoker would be going in as a heavy underdog and overcoming the wall that is Kuzan.
My outline of Smoker's upcoming conflicts:
-> Something related to Cross Guild alongside Fuji
-> Kuzan fight during BBP vs SHP
-> Gorosei fight at Final War
And somewhere in there would be Luffy vs Smoker, which would be Luffy's biggest Marine fight that's been in the making since chapter 100.
Right now the first priority for Smoker would be dealing with Cross Guild and righting the wrongs that he couldn't at Alabasta. Then the eventual team up with Luffy to take on the biggest criminal threat in history, Blackbeard Pirates. Where his fight against Kuzan should cement him as a solid top tier among the admirals, making him a worthy foe to challenge the Gods in the Final War, where he beats one of the Gorosei members to establish his place among Top 5 EoS and the strongest marine till date.
So Kuzan will fall, but he will fall while contributing to the rise of the future of the Marines.
Kuzan will fight for his goal, Smoker will fight for his beliefs.
Kuzan will represent the present regime, Smoker will represent the Future
Both will have to forsake their friendship
If you believe I'm overhyping, blindly hyping or whatever the case maybe, you're more than welcomed to share. Let me know of your disagreements and agreements. I def. could've gone more indepth with Kuzan and his development from the Ohara incident and how that builds itself into this fight, but I didn't want to do any big character analysis.
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