Chapter Discussion So, to everyone who said Nika was a giant retcon... explain the last chapter

CoC: Color of Clowns

CoC: Color of Clowns

Science(Knowledge) + God(Light) = Truth
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#61
#61
ArturCantSpeakJapanese said:


It's really funny to me that we have this scene, and the scene in enies lobby where Lucci tells Spandam that he didn't kill Chimney and her cat because he only kills who he's been ordered to, and goes on to explain that even with Robin captured and the Pluton documents retrieved his job isn't over, because when cipher pol gets called in it's for assassination, and people still don't want to believe the government was after Luffy.

Sabaody should be enough, right? Luffy gets reported and Kuma sends them off. The timeskip happens, 2 full years go by with no word of Luffy, and the RUMOR of them being back on sabaody, literally a witness to demaro black, thats enough to call a fleet of Marine warships, a fleet of pacifistas, sentomaru, and kizaru.

Since alabasta the WG response has been excessive and disproportionate to any other pirate the amount of resources that get put into trying to take out Luffy without anyone else noticing why. It's always like one step more than anyone else gets. It's always been this way. If anything, Oda is retconning the reason for why they're doing this into something plot related instead of just him being the main character so he gets the main character action. But instead, the illiterate haters go "why weren't they trying to kill him" they've been doing that for a thousand chapters asshole lol
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This is why I love Lucci: dude just wants to fight. Lucci has no interest in killing weak people, he wants a bloody battle. Lucci will kill... but only if he believes it's necessary. One of the deepest characters in One Piece, IMO.

Great post, reading it refueled my sanity, lol. Oda retconning certain aspects is possible, the idea that he retconned the entire story is such nonsense.

The moment the WG realized Luffy was a true threat they put a ton of effort into killing him. And they failed.

That's what really makes me go "why are you reading this manga?", the people who outright want Luffy to fail. No shit Luffy is going to win and become the Pirate King. Why would you be reading this if you don't want that?
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ArturCantSpeakJapanese said:
Powerscaler fanbase still doesn't want to accept Shanks could possibly be doing anything wrong here. The 5 guys who shit talk Akainu to his face, kill children, and treat humans like insects, act all friendly and deferential to Shanks and let him walk in whenever he wants, making time specially for him even when they're already busy "because it's you."

He's the moral center of the series! The perfect nice guy! Shanks was probably threatening them to stay away, yeah, that's it....

:milaugh::suresure::gokulaugh:
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Yep, Shanks is very clear he has no problem breaking laws to do what he desires. That's why he's a pirate.
 
Gaimon The Pirate

Gaimon The Pirate

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#62
#62
ArturCantSpeakJapanese said:
Powerscaler fanbase still doesn't want to accept Shanks could possibly be doing anything wrong here. The 5 guys who shit talk Akainu to his face, kill children, and treat humans like insects, act all friendly and deferential to Shanks and let him walk in whenever he wants, making time specially for him even when they're already busy "because it's you."

He's the moral center of the series! The perfect nice guy! Shanks was probably threatening them to stay away, yeah, that's it....

:milaugh::suresure::gokulaugh:
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The rat.
 
BlackLegFring

BlackLegFring

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#64
#64
ArturCantSpeakJapanese said:
Theyve been trying to assassinate him since alabasta
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Not a single time because of the fruit. Not once!
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Fn Lucci said:
Guards begone, leave us. Because this guy wants to talk. He's not just an invading pirate, he's a dude who tells them shit.

Even if he knows the secret of beating them, which we can only just assume for convenience, there's no leaving that place alive if he's alone and hostile.

Right, which is why I'm saying that Shanks being involved with not killing Luffy doesn't make sense.

The bosses of this series have incredibly poor foresight and reasoning, though. Aokiji has a great relationship with Garp, let's send him after Garp's grandson. Kizaru has a great relationship with Vegapunk, let's send him to egghead. Switch the assignments lmao
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Actually, the Gorosei didn’t even send Aokiji after Luffy.
Aokiji went on his own because he wanted to check the situation with Robin.

It just shows how terrible the retcon is because Aokiji could easily predict where the Strawhats would be and even where they were going next (Water 7).
They could have taken Luffy out at any time if they were remotely serious.

Even CP9 was told to leave the Strawhats alone after getting Robin. It’s only because the Strawhats chose themselves to invade Ennies Lobby that there was even a fight.
 
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Gauntlet

Gauntlet

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#65
#65
BlackLegFring said:
Not a single time because of the fruit. Not once!
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Actually, the Gorosei didn’t even send Aokiji after Luffy.
Aokiji went on his own because he wanted to check the situation with Robin.

It just shows how terrible the retcon is because Aokiji could easily predict where the Strawhats would be and even where they were going next (Water 7).
They could have taken Luffy out at any time if they were remotely serious.

Even CP9 was told to leave the Strawhats alone after getting Robin. It’s only because the Strawhats chose themselves to invade Ennies Lobby that there was even a fight.
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Yup. Also wasn't the Alabasta stuff was moreso because of Smoker's self interest and the Straw Hats simply being pirates infiltrating a WG-affliliated island? Not a single time before Wano was Luffy chased after for his devil fruit.
 
TheLastBerserker

TheLastBerserker

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#66
#66
CoC: Color of Clowns said:
Can't pretend like Oda had no idea where he was taking Luffy when the entire One Piece world is connected to ancient flood mythology connected to ancient gods.

Ya'll could have just reread/rewatched Skypiea to know you were wrong

LOL

Oda's been foreshadowing Luffy as a warrior of liberation worshipped as someone who defeats evil gods since Skypiea, arguably Orange Town since Buggy most likely will be the God of the Pirates. Croc fits, as well.

Clearly, Oda has been setting up the WG as endgame enemies since the Gorosei were introduced in




So... Oda have these gods planned, and their boss, Imu, planned... but not Luffy?

Okay.

Ya'll have had enough fun. You're wrong.

Nika isn't a retcon, you just don't like Sun God Nika and Gear 5. And that's okay.

Trying to retcon other gods in the series because you hate Luffy having a Naruto-like plotline won't change the fact that Oda planned all this out, at least in a general sense.
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The nika fruit should have just been a special paramecia retcon like Katakuri at least its more sensible.
 
CoC: Color of Clowns

CoC: Color of Clowns

Science(Knowledge) + God(Light) = Truth
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#67
#67
BlackLegFring said:
Not a single time because of the fruit. Not once!
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Actually, the Gorosei didn’t even send Aokiji after Luffy.
Aokiji went on his own because he wanted to check the situation with Robin.

It just shows how terrible the retcon is because Aokiji could easily predict where the Strawhats would be and even where they were going next (Water 7).
They could have taken Luffy out at any time if they were remotely serious.

Even CP9 was told to leave the Strawhats alone after getting Robin. It’s only because the Strawhats chose themselves to invade Ennies Lobby that there was even a fight.
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I believe the Gorosei DID send Aokiji after Luffy/Robin, but, Aokiji got... uh... lazy. Same way I believe the Gorosei ordered Akainu to blow up the Ohara ship.

But, until we have confirmation, it's just speculation on my part.
 
B

Borasey79

#70
#70
TheLastBerserker said:
The nika fruit should have just been a special paramecia retcon like Katakuri at least its more sensible.
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It shouldn't be special because of the power, it should be special because of its previous user. No G5, no laughter, no drums of liberation. Just the Gomu Gomu, which, however, was used to its full potential by JB when he organized a mass rebellion against the WG. The WG doesn't fear the fruit; it fears what it used to represent.
 
Celestial D. Dragon

Celestial D. Dragon

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#71
#71
BlackLegFring said:
Not a single time because of the fruit. Not once!
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Actually, the Gorosei didn’t even send Aokiji after Luffy.
Aokiji went on his own because he wanted to check the situation with Robin.

It just shows how terrible the retcon is because Aokiji could easily predict where the Strawhats would be and even where they were going next (Water 7).
They could have taken Luffy out at any time if they were remotely serious.

Even CP9 was told to leave the Strawhats alone after getting Robin. It’s only because the Strawhats chose themselves to invade Ennies Lobby that there was even a fight.
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Where was the imminent threat? The fruit hadn't been awakened in 900 years. It was in the hands of a decorated war hero's grandson. What explanation would they give to send out the big guns to kill one of their own's family members to retrieve the fruit? Only the Gorosei knew about the true power of the fruit. Were they supposed to disclose that information to everyone, and send them on a manhunt for Garp's Grandson? Don't disclose the information? And tell them what? We need you to go and immediately kill this rookie pirate. An order which would have been given to Sengoku at the time, who is Garp's best friend. Questions get raised, and the Gorosei don't like questions.

So it boils back down to the fact that fruit hadn't awakened in 900 years, so they simply left it alone because they didn't think it was going to happen. A miscalculation on their end, but the only other alternative was to gloify the fruit to the World, which they damn sure weren't going to do.
 
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Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#72
#72
BlackLegFring said:
Not a single time because of the fruit. Not once!
Post automatically merged:


Actually, the Gorosei didn’t even send Aokiji after Luffy.
Aokiji went on his own because he wanted to check the situation with Robin.

It just shows how terrible the retcon is because Aokiji could easily predict where the Strawhats would be and even where they were going next (Water 7).
They could have taken Luffy out at any time if they were remotely serious.

Even CP9 was told to leave the Strawhats alone after getting Robin. It’s only because the Strawhats chose themselves to invade Ennies Lobby that there was even a fight.
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Between Enies Lobby and the departure from Water Seven days later, they absolutely would have known Aokiji was there. Garp even mentioned reporting which, y'know... they have the same last name and came from the same place. Of course he's related to Garp so of course having Garp there wouldn't work out.

We don't know exactly how or when they would have known about his rubber powers but it was never hidden at all. Guy with Garp's name, Roger's hat, rubber powers, and Nico Robin shows up and the most powerful dude they have on the case before Sabaody was a family friend
 
BlackLegFring

BlackLegFring

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#73
#73
CoC: Color of Clowns said:
I believe the Gorosei DID send Aokiji after Luffy/Robin, but, Aokiji got... uh... lazy. Same way I believe the Gorosei ordered Akainu to blow up the Ohara ship.

But, until we have confirmation, it's just speculation on my part.
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If that were the case though, why were the Gorosei confused about where Aokiji went? They even complain that he can’t just go off on his own since he’s the “ultimate fighting force” of the Navy.
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Celestial D. Dragon said:
Where was the imminent threat? The fruit hadn't been awakened in 900 years. It was in the hands of a decorated war hero's grandson. You know…the man who made it Raftel and found the secret history? What explanation would they give to send out the big guns to kill one of their own's family members to retrieve the fruit? Only the Gorosei knew about the true power of the fruit. Were they supposed to disclose that information to everyone, and send them on a manhunt for Garp's Grandson? Don't disclose the information? And tell them what? We need you to go and immediately kill this rookie pirate. An order which would have been given to Sengoku at the time, who is Garp's best friend. Questions get raised, and the Gorosei don't like questions.

So it boils back down to the fact that fruit hadn't awakened in 900 years, so they simply left it alone because they didn't think it was going to happen. A miscalculation on their end, but the only other alternative was to gloify the fruit to the World, which they damn sure weren't going to do.
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The imminent threat was the fruit they’d been hunting for 800 years being stolen right from under their noses by the Pirate King’s heir. You know…the man who made it Raftel and uncovered the secret history. It being eaten by a member of the D family whose debut act on the world stage was defeating one of the Shichibukai and liberating a country should have had all the alarm bells ringing to the bloody heavens.

The “no one has awakened it yet” excuse doesn’t work because the yet should be the most terrifying part of that for them. They said it themselves that it was purposefully avoiding them. Isn’t the first thought that there’s a reason for that? Why even give it a chance to begin with? You stop it before the awakening because it only gets far more difficult after that point.

On top of that, what is it being Garp’s grandson supposed to change? Garp’s son already created the Revolutionary Army, so should familial relations stop them from wanting him dead? Being the son of the Worst Criminal is only more reason for Luffy to have been snuffed out long before.
They don’t need to tell anyone anything beyond the Dragon connection either. A quick jaunt by Akainu who hates both pirates and Dragon is all it would take, and he’d be even happy to do it.

The excuses just don’t work. They could have CP0 do it, it’s not like they give a damn about Garp’s grandson or that he’d even ever know it was them…or that he could do much about it anyway besides complain and go drown his sorrow with his battleship bag like he did with his son becoming a Rev.
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Fn Lucci said:
Between Enies Lobby and the departure from Water Seven days later, they absolutely would have known Aokiji was there. Garp even mentioned reporting which, y'know... they have the same last name and came from the same place. Of course he's related to Garp so of course having Garp there wouldn't work out.

We don't know exactly how or when they would have known about his rubber powers but it was never hidden at all. Guy with Garp's name, Roger's hat, rubber powers, and Nico Robin shows up and the most powerful dude they have on the case before Sabaody was a family friend
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Irc, it’s not even mentioned that they sent Garp. I believe Garp said that he went on his own just because Koby & Helmeppo wanted to meet up. That’s why he said he had no intention of actually doing anything, then it’s only when they were about to leave that he said he changed his mind.
That’s how bad their lack of action was. Most of the Strawhats’ encounters with the Marines was not even anyone being sent after them, but people like Aokiji & Garp going on their own or others being forced to respond to the Strawhats causing trouble.
 
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CoC: Color of Clowns

CoC: Color of Clowns

Science(Knowledge) + God(Light) = Truth
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#74
#74
BlackLegFring said:
If that were the case though, why were the Gorosei confused about where Aokiji went? They even complain that he can’t just go off on his own since he’s the “ultimate fighting force” of the Navy.
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The imminent threat was the fruit they’d been hunting for 800 years being stolen right from under their noses by the Pirate King’s heir. You know…the man who made it Raftel and uncovered the secret history. It being eaten by a member of the D family whose debut act on the world stage was defeating one of the Shichibukai and liberating a country should have had all the alarm bells ringing to the bloody heavens.

The “no one has awakened it yet” excuse doesn’t work because the yet should be the most terrifying part of that for them. They said it themselves that it was purposefully avoiding them. Isn’t the first thought that there’s a reason for that? Why even give it a chance to begin with? You stop it before the awakening because it only gets far more difficult after that point.

On top of that, what is it being Garp’s grandson supposed to change? Garp’s son already created the Revolutionary Army, so should familial relations stop them from wanting him dead? Being the son of the Worst Criminal is only more reason for Luffy to have been snuffed out long before.
They don’t need to tell anyone anything beyond the Dragon connection either. A quick jaunt by Akainu who hates both pirates and Dragon is all it would take, and he’d be even happy to do it.

The excuses just don’t work. They could have CP0 do it, it’s not like they give a damn about Garp’s grandson or that he’d even ever know it was them…or that he could do much about it anyway besides complain and go drown his sorrow with his battleship bag like he did with his son becoming a Rev.
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Irc, it’s not even mentioned that they sent Garp. I believe Garp said that he went on his own just because Koby & Helmeppo wanted to meet up. That’s why he said he had no intention of actually doing anything, then it’s only when they were about to leave that he said he changed his mind.
That’s how bad their lack of action was. Most of the Strawhats’ encounters with the Marines was not even anyone being sent after them, but people like Aokiji & Garp going on their own or others being forced to respond to the Strawhats causing trouble.
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Great point, completely forgot about them, yep, Kuzan went rogue, he wasn't there on orders. Thank you for correcting me.
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#78
#78
To be clear, I like the fruit and there was some clever long game shit involved. I have a Screaming Tail named Joyboy who baton passes to my Stellar Hitmontop. But Oda clearly writes this shit in real time and it's a problem. Like going back to the beginning of the series and realizing what wasn't being hidden from the world government in the slightest makes them all seem incredibly stupid. They put more effort into getting that one celestial dragon laid than they ever did into stopping a guy who they should have easily been able to recognize as far back as Arlong as their biggest possible threat
 
Celestial D. Dragon

Celestial D. Dragon

‎
#80
#80
BlackLegFring said:
If that were the case though, why were the Gorosei confused about where Aokiji went? They even complain that he can’t just go off on his own since he’s the “ultimate fighting force” of the Navy.
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The imminent threat was the fruit they’d been hunting for 800 years being stolen right from under their noses by the Pirate King’s heir. You know…the man who made it Raftel and uncovered the secret history. It being eaten by a member of the D family whose debut act on the world stage was defeating one of the Shichibukai and liberating a country should have had all the alarm bells ringing to the bloody Honestly, heavens.

The “no one has awakened it yet” excuse doesn’t work because the yet should be the most terrifying part of that for them. They said it themselves that it was purposefully avoiding them. Isn’t the first thought that there’s a reason for that? Why even give it a chance to begin with? You stop it before the awakening because it only gets far more difficult after that point.

On top of that, what is it being Garp’s grandson supposed to change? Garp’s son already created the Revolutionary Army, so should familial relations stop them from wanting him dead? Being the son of the Worst Criminal is only more reason for Luffy to have been snuffed out long before.
They don’t need to tell anyone anything beyond the Dragon connection either. A quick jaunt by Akainu who hates both pirates and Dragon is all it would take, and he’d be even happy to do it.

The excuses just don’t work. They could have CP0 do it, it’s not like they give a damn about Garp’s grandson or that he’d even ever know it was them…or that he could do much about it anyway besides complain and go drown his sorrow with his battleship bag like he did with his son becoming a Rev.
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Irc, it’s not even mentioned that they sent Garp. I believe Garp said that he went on his own just because Koby & Helmeppo wanted to meet up. That’s why he said he had no intention of actually doing anything, then it’s only when they were about to leave that he said he changed his mind.
That’s how bad their lack of action was. Most of the Strawhats’ encounters with the Marines was not even anyone being sent after them, but people like Aokiji & Garp going on their own or others being forced to respond to the Strawhats causing trouble.
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Honestly, there doesn't need to be excuses on this end. The excuses are on the end of the World Government should have done something, when they haven't done so in over 800 years. They don't make a big deal over the fruit. They don't talk as if they've killed hundreds for the sake of the fruit not awakening. They aren't even making it a big deal now that it is awakened. They didn't immediately take action when Luffy was confirmed to be on Egghead, despite there being a way for them to have gotten there. They sat back, and did nothing, because they don't view as big of a threat as you guys think they do. These guys are about to wipe the Earth clean, and they are still more concerned over information about the void century being leaked, than they are about Nika, who could potentially stop them, which tells us they aren't worried about Luffy at all.

The previous guy who awakened the Gomu Gomu no Mi, lost to the World Government. Why should they care if someone else manages to? There are tons of other fruits out there that are just as powerful, if not more so than the Nika fruit. Hell. Blackbeard has two of them. They didn't run and try and snuff him out the second he got the Gura on top of the Yami, even though they obviously could have.

They simply don't care, because they don't feel threatened in the slightest. They are actually strong and sit at the Apex of the World, and there is still someone out there who is even stronger than they are that sits above them. The fandom is the one making this out to be a bigger deal than it actually is, within the confines of the story, because we know what's coming, they don't. It's easy to argue from the perspective of the reader who knows what the inevitable is. But narrative's don't operate from a readers perspective.
 
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