Break Week So Zoro acknowledges that King is not a swordsman.

#41
WB did not want to be the PK and did not try to be the PK, that’s means that he did not fall under the Pirate King’s title. Roger was never WB’s king:kayneshrug:

WB was the WSM but Whoopslap never wanted to be the WSM and never try to be the WSM, therefore WB was never stronger than Whoopslap:goyea:

I think I finally get it. Titles only apply only to people who want the title. No one wants to be the WSC therefore there are créature that are stronger than Kaido:kata:
 
#42
It means more when they don't bother fighting back lol. Shanks STOPPED Kaido. Shanks STOPPED Akainu.
I dunno it reminds me of this panel



Fights need to develop for us to be able to judge who's stronger, some short clash doesn't say anything

Shanks looks cool when he clashes but he hasn't beaten anyone and lost to Mihawk
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Imagine jumping through this many hoops to downplay a Yonko. Weird
Not really downplaying him just saying he lost to Mihawk and is therefore weaker swordsman than him which is objectively true

Shanks is Top 2 swordsman and Top 4 among current pirates
Pretty good imo
 
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#43
And yet, here's the manga proving each every one of you wrong:yasu:





Mihawk is a pirate, just not one of the 4 greatest :madmonk:

Oh and if you try and say "well, that's not his ambition to be because he doesn't have a crew", that pendulum swings both ways and exactly the kind of hypocritical logic I'm calling out. Just like there's nothing "proving" Mihawk is less of a pirate to Shanks other than a TITLE, there's nothing "proving" Shanks is less of a swordsman or fighter than Mihawk other than a TITLE.


Tldr: if you fall for the bait of my comment and don't realize I'm a fan of both Mihawk and Shanks, then you have completely lost track of the actual point.
 
#44
And yet, here's the manga proving each every one of you wrong:yasu:





Mihawk is a pirate, just not one of the 4 greatest :madmonk:

Oh and if you try and say "well, that's not his ambition to be because he doesn't have a crew", that pendulum swings both ways and exactly the kind of hypocritical logic I'm calling out. Just like there's nothing "proving" Mihawk is less of a pirate to Shanks other than a TITLE, there's nothing "proving" Shanks is less of a swordsman or fighter than Mihawk other than a TITLE.


Tldr: if you fall for the bait of my comment and don't realize I'm a fan of both Mihawk and Shanks, then you have completely lost track of the actual point.
Nobody is denying that Shanks is more accomplished than Mihawk as a pirate though bro
Shanks is way more powerful and influential, has a massive crew and lots of territories bla bla bla
Doesn't change the fact that if they fight 1 vs 1 Mihawk beats him
 
#45
Nobody is denying that Shanks is more accomplished than Mihawk as a pirate though bro
Shanks is way more powerful and influential, has a massive crew and lots of territories bla bla bla
Doesn't change the fact that if they fight 1 vs 1 Mihawk beats him
Proof that Shanks lost? Proof that he wanted the WSS title? Answer those things for me.
 
#46
Proof that Shanks lost? Proof that he wanted the WSS title? Answer those things for me.
Cuz he earned the title of strongest swordsman after said duels bro
Would be pretty silly if the loser got called the strongest don't you think
Would be like Wilder being recognized as the world champion after losing 3 times in a row to Fury
It would mean Zoro's dream is a lie
Therefore Mihawk won
Btw they dueled each other multiple times so Shanks was clearly interested lmao, otherwise why keep asking for rematches?
If anything he cares more than Mihawk considering when Mihawk visited him in chapter 96 he was eager to fight him, and Mihawk was the one that said he's not interested to fight some armless guy
 
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#49
Btw it's kinda dishonest to paste this page but to not paste other pages from this same chapter where Shirohige says he still remembers Shanks' duels with Mihawk
Or the page where he shows Shirohige his scar and says he's survived countless battles and wounds, but that that wound wasn't caused by Mihawk but by Kurohige
Don't you think it's pretty telling that he feels the need to point out that out of his many wounds that one wasn't caused by Mihawk
It's a massive cope on your part to nitpick that page and ignore the other relevant pages tbh
 
#50
Cuz he earned the title of strongest swordsman after said duels bro
Would be pretty silly if the loser got called the strongest don't you think
Would be like Wilder being recognized as the world champion after losing 3 times in a row to Fury
It would mean Zoro's dream is a lie
Therefore Mihawk won
Btw they dueled each other multiple times so Shanks was clearly interested lmao, otherwise why keep asking for rematches?
If anything he cares more than Mihawk considering when Mihawk visited him in chapter 96 he was eager to fight him, and Mihawk was the one that said he's not interested to fight some armless guy
Well if you dont consider Roger and Shanks as strong people

Then we have a problem
I'm gonna put a cork in this right now because very clearly you guys are missing the point here. I'm gonna be very frank: While I bring up these examples showing Shanks' far bigger influence in the story and in name/displays of power/etc, I do NOT believe Shanks is truly above Mihawk in power. In fact, I believe they are equal.

That's the point! There is NOTHING in the manga that has implied Shanks has lost a duel with Mihawk. There is NOTHING implying Mihawk has tried to become a Yonko or aspired to or lost to Shanks. I quite literally compare this to Kaido and Big Mom. Neither have best the other. Neither seemingly can, and yet Kaido IS the WSC. Does anyone not understand the point being made here? That Yonko or WSC or WSM or WSS or anything else is just an arbitrary standing until the main characters (i.e. Luffy/Zoro/Sanji/Jinbe/etc) surpass these people?

Will Luffy be the WSC after Kaido? Will he not? Does it even fucking matter if he has harder battles to face after Kaido? See how assuming shit gets us nowhere?

For the record I think Shanks and Mihawk are the last fights in the series, full standing over Akainu. Over Blackbeard. Over everyone. Mihawk doesn't belong anywhere else but at the top with Shanks, Luffy and Zoro. And that's my opinion on that.
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Btw it's kinda dishonest to paste this page but to not paste other pages from this same chapter where Shirohige says he still remembers Shanks' duels with Mihawk
Or the page where he shows Shirohige his scar and says he's survived countless battles and wounds, but that that wound wasn't caused by Mihawk but by Kurohige
Don't you think it's pretty telling that he feels the need to point out that out of his many wounds that one wasn't caused by Mihawk
It's a massive cope on your part to nitpick that page and ignore the other relevant pages tbh
Uh, sounds like he's downplaying Mihawk because Blackbeard scarred him, not Mihawk so....


And you can read my post above. The point of me posting these things was because people need to take it down 15 steps about Mihawk. The manga has never stated he was better than Shanks. Whitebeard says they fought. That's it lol. Why stretch it out more than what's on the fucking page?

The point is, the story shows Shanks clashing with other Yonko and Akainu. The story does NOT do this for Mihawk, its just specified that he and Shanks have fought, that's it. Nothing more.
 
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#51
I'm gonna put a cork in this right now because very clearly you guys are missing the point here. I'm gonna be very frank: While I bring up these examples showing Shanks' far bigger influence in the story and in name/displays of power/etc, I do NOT believe Shanks is truly above Mihawk in power. In fact, I believe they are equal.

That's the point! There is NOTHING in the manga that has implied Shanks has lost a duel with Mihawk. There is NOTHING implying Mihawk has tried to become a Yonko or aspired to or lost to Shanks. I quite literally compare this to Kaido and Big Mom. Neither have best the other. Neither seemingly can, and yet Kaido IS the WSC. Does anyone not understand the point being made here? That Yonko or WSC or WSM or WSS or anything else is just an arbitrary standing until the main characters (i.e. Luffy/Zoro/Sanji/Jinbe/etc) surpass these people?

Will Luffy be the WSC after Kaido? Will he not? Does it even fucking matter if he has harder battles to face after Kaido? See how assuming shit gets us nowhere?

For the record I think Shanks and Mihawk are the last fights in the series, full standing over Akainu. Over Blackbeard. Over everyone. Mihawk doesn't belong anywhere else but at the top with Shanks, Luffy and Zoro. And that's my opinion on that.
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Bro I nitpicking because that's what this forum does with Mihawk.


And that sounds like he's downplaying Mihawk because Blackbeard scarred him, not Mihawk so....
Imo even if Mihawk tried to be a Yonkou he would fail hard because he's a loner that won't be able to find a crew of driven and powerful individuals and lead them towards a common goal
He's just some autist that's very into swords and into perfecting his swordsmanship like an art form
I agree with you that Shanks is greater than Mihawk as a whole
But I still think Mihawk is better in the one thing he has going on for him
Anyway I have to end here
It was fun exchanging ideas with you and challenging each other's positions
Thanks!
 
#52
WB did not want to be the PK and did not try to be the PK, that’s means that he did not fall under the Pirate King’s title. Roger was never WB’s king:kayneshrug:

WB was the WSM but Whoopslap never wanted to be the WSM and never try to be the WSM, therefore WB was never stronger than Whoopslap:goyea:

I think I finally get it. Titles only apply only to people who want the title. No one wants to be the WSC therefore there are créature that are stronger than Kaido:kata:
No, titles are arbitrary goals designed for the characters meant to surpass them, that's it.

Mihawk was the WSS before Roger died, so I guess that means Mihawk is stronger than Roger and thus, Whitebeard? See why titles are absolute garbage when you try to use them outside of who they apply to (i.e. Zoro)?
 
#53
And yet, here's the manga proving each every one of you wrong:yasu:





Mihawk is a pirate, just not one of the 4 greatest :madmonk:

Oh and if you try and say "well, that's not his ambition to be because he doesn't have a crew", that pendulum swings both ways and exactly the kind of hypocritical logic I'm calling out. Just like there's nothing "proving" Mihawk is less of a pirate to Shanks other than a TITLE, there's nothing "proving" Shanks is less of a swordsman or fighter than Mihawk other than a TITLE.


Tldr: if you fall for the bait of my comment and don't realize I'm a fan of both Mihawk and Shanks, then you have completely lost track of the actual point.
3 Admirals, Mihawk, Garp and a bunch of fodders counter 4 Yonkou crews, your first W in a while! :cheers:
 
#55
Wait so to you saying Shanks is weaker than someone else means those people are downplaying Shanks???????
:lusalty:

Your probably one of those delusional people who think Shanks is top 1 :milaugh:
? I could literally say the same thing about the other side.

And yeah, I think Shanks and Mihawk are the final antagonists (not Villains dont get confused) in the series and think they are relatively equal.. I do think there is a good argument to be made that he could be Luffy's hardest fight, as would Zoro's.

Unfortunate people think I'm actually dickriding a character. I have actual reasons for why I think the way I think about Shanks (and Mihawk).
 
#57
? I could literally say the same thing about the other side.

And yeah, I think Shanks and Mihawk are the final antagonists (not Villains dont get confused) in the series and think they are relatively equal.. I do think there is a good argument to be made that he could be Luffy's hardest fight, as would Zoro's.

Unfortunate people think I'm actually dickriding a character. I have actual reasons for why I think the way I think about Shanks (and Mihawk).
Perfectly valid take imo as long as you don't put Shanks above Mihawk (no matter how small that gap would be). WS title holders can be matched by other characters, but said characters can't be stronger (until and unless they defeat the current title owner and/or it explicitely states a character gained a certain title(for whatever reason)), it's all about the ambiguity that Oda purposefully keeps in place. (WB was not the strongest anymore at the time of his death, I believe he said so himself. For Kaido, we still have to see how he goes down, but we already know he got defeated multiple times, yet is still considered the WSC (again we might not learn the circumstances of his defeats because Oda likes it this way). Left some details here, especially on how WB and Kaido actually got their titles and how no one is really going for them ... but Mihawks title is very clear, and I believe you'll understand what I'm trying to say.)

Anyways, Shanks might very well be equal to Mihawk, but not stronger, because that would invalidate Zoro's dream (since Shanks is a swordsman), and of course Oda wouldn't do that to one of the MCs. Zoro defeating Mihawk, even if he is matched by Shanks, would still make him the WSS, so I don't really see the problem with that.
 
#58
? I could literally say the same thing about the other side.

And yeah, I think Shanks and Mihawk are the final antagonists (not Villains dont get confused) in the series and think they are relatively equal.. I do think there is a good argument to be made that he could be Luffy's hardest fight, as would Zoro's.

Unfortunate people think I'm actually dickriding a character. I have actual reasons for why I think the way I think about Shanks (and Mihawk).
Everything you have been saying to me sounds like you are though.........
Oda has dropped multiple hints that Mihawk is above Shanks, saying Shanks is above Mihawk for me sounds very sus after the SBS swordsman confirmation, the tittle of WSS and the fact Mihawk wont fight Zoro again until Zoro surpasses Shanks
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Anyways, Shanks might very well be equal to Mihawk, but not stronger, because that would invalidate Zoro's dream (since Shanks is a swordsman), and of course Oda wouldn't do that to one of the MCs. Zoro defeating Mihawk, even if he is matched by Shanks, would still make him the WSS, so I don't really see the problem with that.
The problem from what i have seen is that, people dont want Mihawk to be so strong since their head canons of Luffy>Zoro=Sanji wont make sense anymore;
and the people who keep saying an underling will never be stronger than his captains rivals, meaning Zoro cant be above Shanks since Shanks is Luffy's end goal;

If Im-sama ends up being the thread we all think he is then EoS Zoro will be above Ryuma someone who could defeat the WG solo
 
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#59
Everything you have been saying to me sounds like you are though.........
Oda has dropped multiple hints that Mihawk is above Shanks, saying Shanks is above Mihawk for me sounds very sus after the SBS swordsman confirmation, the tittle of WSS and the fact Mihawk wont fight Zoro again until Zoro surpasses Shanks
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The problem from what i have seen is that, people dont want Mihawk to be so strong since their head canons of Luffy>Zoro=Sanji wont make sense anymore;
and the people who keep saying an underling will never be stronger than his captains rivals, meaning Zoro cant be above Shanks since Shanks is Luffy's end goal;

If Im-sama ends up being the thread we all think he is then EoS Zoro will be above Ryuma someone who could defeat the WG solo
And Zoro's dream is to be the Strongest Swordsman Ever
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
#60
What matters is that Zoro's awesomeness can't be replaced ultimately. He is a destined man, the next WSS and a man thoroughly paralleled with the Legend Ryuma God of Sword and guess what Zoro just defeated a God, he turned King into a One Winged Man Sephiroth styled
 
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