Powers & Abilities Swordsmanship is All About Haki

Who is Superior and in Which Stats?

  • Mihawk (swordsmanship and haki)

  • Mihawk (swordsmanship alone)

  • Mihawk (haki alone)

  • Shanks (swordsmanship and haki)

  • Shanks (swordsmanship alone)

  • Shanks (haki alone)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#1
[No essay this time (or images either, I can't be bothered).]


Introduction
The single most important factor to becoming a stronger swordsman is haki and haki alone. Nothing else (skill, physical strength, endurance, e) even registers. Indeed, it wouldn't be wrong to say that true "sword skill" is just the strength and proficiency of your haki.


Arguments in Favour
Some credible arguments in favour:
  • Kozaburo told Zoro that the pinnacle of swordsmanship was the power to protect what you wanted to protect and cut what you want to cut.
  • Zoro's bloom in his fight against Daz Bones was a bloom of haki.
    • He subconsciously manifested Busoshoku haki (the breath of all things) and Kenbushoku haki (knowing where the rocks wouldn't fall).
  • Zoro's trump card against Pica was Busoshoku coating
    • Indeed, he said that Pica would beat him if only his haki was stronger.
  • Luffy's haki teachers were all swordsmen
    • Rayleigh during the time skip
    • Hyougoro during Wano
  • As far as we're aware, the only thing Mihawk taught Zoro was haki
    • He specifically forbade Zoro from drinking wine until he mastered coating his swords with Busoshoku haki.
    • Zoro has not other flashbacks showing him learn anything else
  • Recall that Zoro asked Mihawk to teach him "the way of the sword".
    • Thus, "the way of the sword" is nothing other than mastery of Haki.
  • Black Blades β€” the pinnacle of swordmanship β€” are forged through supreme haki
    • Mihawk told this to Zoro
    • Gyukimaru reiterated it
  • Only the greatest swordsmen of all time have wielded Black Blades:
    • Former WSS: Ryuma
    • Current WSS: Mihawk
    • Future WSS: Zoro
    • Lesser swordsmen have failed to forge Kokuto
      • Roger
      • Rayleigh
      • Shanks
      • Oden
      • Issho
      • Etc.
  • Zoro's growth with Enma was all about mastering his Busoshoku and Haoshoku haki
    • Enma forcibly released his Ryuo, and learning how to wield Enma forced him to temper and master said haki
    • He had to unlock Haoshoku haki to effectively use Enma at all
  • King stated that Zoro had "kingly ambitions"
    • Upon witnessing his "King of Hell" mode, he chastised him not to get ahead of himself as Kaido would become the Pirate King
    • That is, King considered Zoro a worthy contender for the Pirate King throne.
  • Zoro's big power up post skip was unlocking Haoshoku coating and developing an associated mode: "King of Hell".
    • His big attack against King was entirely dependent on his haki with "skill" and physical strength being completely irrelevant
    • This is his equivalent of Luffy's gears
  • Asura may also be a manifestation of Zoro's haki
  • It was only after his haki bloom in Wano that Zoro earned the title of "Kengou" (master swordsman)
    • Mastering his ryuo
    • Unlocking Haoshoku
      • He needed this to tame Enma
    • Unlocking Haoshoku coating
    • Unlocking a new mode ("King of Hell") based entirely around Haoshoku coating
    • Unlocking a super move that use massive amounts of Haoshoku coating
  • At the end of his fight with King, Zoro stated that he will become "Jigoku no Ou" ("The King of Hell" [and a pun on "The King of Samurai"])
    • This further reiterates how important haki β€” and Haoshoku haki in particular β€” is to the pinnacle of swordsmanship

More arguments, courtesy of @Salah WG:
Nice thread.
More arguments to add:

Mihawk blamed lack of Haki for Zoro's Defeat

During Baratie, he told him to know his will instead of improve sword moves

Land of Samurai and Swordsmen are specialized in CoA

Kaido was shocked by Scabbards Haki, not their Sword moves

Oden got stronger in his journey thanks to Haki/CoC

When Zoro's first attack against Kaido didn't do much, he said he needs more Haki, not better Sword Technique

With exception of Garp, almost all Top Tiers who specialize in Haki and didn't eat a DF are Swordsmen

Kaido witnessed Zoro's Ultimate technique (Asura) and yet attributed the feat of receiving a new scar to Zoro having CoC

Arguments Against
The credible arguments against:
(They don't exist.)


Conclusions
At the high and top tier, swordsmanship is β€” as best as we can tell β€” solely about haki. That is, the statement that Mihawk's swordsmanship surpasses Shanks is a statement that Mihawk's haki surpasses Shanks.

For if Shanks had the superior haki, he would be the superior swordsman.

It should also go without saying, but Mihawk explicitly turned down the Yonkou title, revealing that not only does he have no interest in it, but he could have the title of Yonkou had he wished.

So Shanks' lone β€” and quite dubious at that β€” portrayal above Mihawk has been completely discredited.

Mihawk's bounty being above three Yonkou and so close to Shanks while he's a "mere subordinate" is further damming for him.
 
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Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#5
not it is not about haki, sure swordsmen use haki in one piece but the sword skills are more important for being a swordsman.
And what are your arguments in favour of this position? Or arguments against haki being the most important skill for swordsmanship.
 
#9
[No essay this time (or images either, I can't be bothered).]


Introduction
The single most important factor to becoming a stronger swordsman is haki and haki alone. Nothing else (skill, physical strength, endurance, e) even registers. Indeed, it wouldn't be wrong to say that true "sword skill" is just the strength and proficiency of your haki.


Arguments in Favour
Some credible arguments in favour:
  • Zoro's bloom in his fight against Daz Bones was a bloom of haki.
    • He subconsciously manifested Busoshoku haki (the breath of all things) and Kenbushoku haki (knowing where the rocks wouldn't fall).
  • Zoro's trump card against Pica was Busoshoku coating
    • Indeed, he said that Pica would beat him if only his haki was stronger.
  • Luffy's haki teachers were all swordsmen
    • Rayleigh during the time skip
    • Hyougoro during Wano
  • As far as we're aware, the only thing Mihawk taught Zoro was haki
    • He specifically forbade Zoro from drinking wine until he mastered coating his swords with Busoshoku haki.
    • Zoro has not other flashbacks showing him learn anything else
  • Black Blades β€” the pinnacle of swordmanship β€” are forged through supreme haki
    • Mihawk told this to Zoro
    • Gyukimaru reiterated it
  • Only the greatest swordsmen of all time have wielded Black Blades:
    • Former WSS: Ryuma
    • Current WSS: Mihawk
    • Future WSS: Zoro
    • Lesser swordsmen have failed to forge Kokuto
      • Roger
      • Rayleigh
      • Shanks
      • Oden
      • Issho
      • Etc.
  • Zoro's growth with Enma was all about mastering his Busoshoku and Haoshoku haki
    • Enma forcibly released his Ryuo, and learning how to wield Enma forced him to temper and master said haki
    • He had to unlock Haoshoku haki to effectively use Enma at all
  • King stated that Zoro had "kingly ambitions"
    • Upon witnessing his "King of Hell" mode, he chastised him not to get ahead of himself as Kaido would become the Pirate King
    • That is, King considered Zoro a worthy contender for the Pirate King throne.
  • Zoro's big power up post skip was unlocking Haoshoku coating and developing an associated mode: "King of Hell".
    • His big attack against King was entirely dependent on his haki with "skill" and physical strength being completely irrelevant
    • This is his equivalent of Luffy's gears
  • Asura may also be a manifestation of Zoro's haki


Arguments Against
The credible arguments against:
(They don't exist.)


Conclusions
At the high and top tier, swordsmanship is β€” as best as we can tell β€” solely about haki. That is, the statement that Mihawk's swordsmanship surpasses Shanks is a statement that Mihawk's haki surpasses Shanks.

For if Shanks had the superior haki, he would be the superior swordsman.

It should also go without saying, but Mihawk explicitly turned down the Yonkou title, revealing that not only does he have no interest in it, but he could have the title of Yonkou had he wished.

So Shanks' lone β€” and quite dubious at that β€” portrayal above Mihawk has been completely discredited.

Mihawk's bounty being above three Yonkou and so close to Shanks while he's a "mere subordinate" is further damming for him.
Swordsmanship is all about Haki, with strong CoA inclination..

Where as Haki is not all about Swordsmanship, with strong CoC inclination..
Post automatically merged:

I don't get the poll, swordsmanship and haki can't be separated
They can, since willpower comes from the person, not the sword..
 
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Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#11
Swordsmanship is all about Haki, with strong CoA inclination..

Where as Haki is not all about Swordsmanship, with strong CoC inclination..
Zoro's main bloom in Wano was:
  • Unlocking Haoshoku
    • He needed this to tame Enma
  • Unlocking Haoshoku coating
  • Unlocking a new mode ("King of Hell") based entirely around Haoshoku coating
  • Unlocking a super move that use massive amounts of Haoshoku coating

It is this bloom in Haoshoku that elevated Zoro to the position of "Kengou" or "master swordsman".

Furthermore, at the end of his fight with King, Zoro stated that he will become "Jigoku no Ou" ("The King of Hell" [and a pun on "The King of Samurai"]).
(This further reiterates how important haki β€” and Haoshoku haki in particular β€” is to the pinnacle of swordsmanship.)

It appears that master swordsmanship is more about Haoshoku coating than Busoshoku β€” it certainly was in Zoro's case.
 
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#12
Zoro's main bloom in Wano was:
  • Unlocking Haoshoku
    • He needed this to tame Enma
  • Unlocking Haoshoku coating
  • Unlocking a new mode ("King of Hell") based entirely around Haoshoku coating
  • Unlocking a super move that use massive amounts of Haoshoku coating

It is this bloom in Haoshoku that elevated Zoro to the position of "Kengou" or "master swordsman".

Furthermore, at the end of his fight with King, Zoro stated that he will become "Jigoku no Ou" ("The King of Hell" [and a pun on "The King of Samurai"]).
(This further reiterates how important haki β€” and Haoshoku haki in particular β€” is to the pinnacle of swordsmanship.)

It appears that master swordsmanship is more about Haoshoku coating than Busoshoku β€” it certainly was in Zoro's case.
Bruh this dude thinks zoro has no acoc. Its pointless to argue with him lmao
 
#14
Nice thread.
More arguments to add:

Mihawk blamed lack of Haki for Zoro's Defeat

During Baratie, he told him to know his will instead of improve sword moves

Land of Samurai and Swordsmen are specialized in CoA

Kaido was shocked by Scabbards Haki, not their Sword moves

Oden got stronger in his journey thanks to Haki/CoC

When Zoro's first attack against Kaido didn't do much, he said he needs more Haki, not better Sword Technique

With exception of Garp, almost all Top Tiers who specialize in Haki and didn't eat a DF are Swordsmen

Kaido witnessed Zoro's Ultimate technique (Asura) and yet attributed the feat of receiving a new scar to Zoro having CoC
 
#15
Haki is not a fighting style. It's a power. Swordmanship is a fighting style. Any type of haki can be used with swordsmanship.
And Haki's power can't fully bloom with Swordsmanship as it's heavily CoA oriented and confining..

Zoro's main bloom in Wano was:
  • Unlocking Haoshoku
    • He needed this to tame Enma
  • Unlocking Haoshoku coating
  • Unlocking a new mode ("King of Hell") based entirely around Haoshoku coating
  • Unlocking a super move that use massive amounts of Haoshoku coating

It is this bloom in Haoshoku that elevated Zoro to the position of "Kengou" or "master swordsman".

It appears that master swordsmanship is more about Haoshoku coating than Busoshoku β€” it certainly was in Zoro's case.
Zoro only unlocked CoC, not CoC Coating..

KoH is mainly CoA and needs base CoC for activation.. Same with Roger Kamusari was CoA and next Panel with Whitebeard CoC Coating..




 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#17
Nice thread.
More arguments to add:

Mihawk blamed lack of Haki for Zoro's Defeat

During Baratie, he told him to know his will instead of improve sword moves

Land of Samurai and Swordsmen are specialized in CoA

Kaido was shocked by Scabbards Haki, not their Sword moves

Oden got stronger in his journey thanks to Haki/CoC

When Zoro's first attack against Kaido didn't do much, he said he needs more Haki, not better Sword Technique

With exception of Garp, almost all Top Tiers who specialize in Haki and didn't eat a DF are Swordsmen

Kaido witnessed Zoro's Ultimate technique (Asura) and yet attributed the feat of receiving a new scar to Zoro having CoC
Thanks, I'll add this to the OP.


Zoro only unlocked CoC, not CoC Coating..
This is an stupid hypothesis; I have a policy of not engaging with stupid hypotheses.
 
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