General & Others The myth of One Piece being a "masterpiece"/"peak fiction"

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

idc about the haters, one piece is literally the best manga ive ever read and ive read a lot of them. wano has some problems but its not over yet and all my problems with it come from the possibility that its over too early. so we'll see.

i think a lot of people have problems thinking their personal likes + dislikes are objective measures of quality. like people really will say shit like "one piece is bad" and then recommend some trash chinese war manga telling the same story everyones seen 4000 times about dudes crying and armies getting killed and say its better than james joyce

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2022

people who think one piece is a well written story, let alone peak fiction, have never read watched anything except generic battle shounen like naruto, bleach, fairy tail, etc and judge one piece according to these stories (as if these are the pinnacle of fiction lol). they also most definitely haven't read a single novel in their lives.

people who say things like this have literally never read a book their school didn't make them read, for example. or they think reading warhammer fanfic is "reading novels"

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2022

Mostly from Luffy fans and those who use the term Goda.
Laughing in the middle of a fight? How dare you not like that?!

or like, this. if you think laughing in the middle of a tense conflict is bad writing i dont believe you actually have any history reading anything. youre probably like 14 pretending to be an older smarter person. its so common of a situation that its on tv tropes lol. characters in different things all through history do this. mike hammer talking abt being in battle in ww2 and laughing in detective fiction. tyler durden laughing when he gets beat up in fight club. thenardier laughing as he loots corpses on a battlefield in les miserables

 

[Eustass D. William Kid]

idc about the haters, one piece is literally the best manga ive ever read and ive read a lot of them. wano has some problems but its not over yet and all my problems with it come from the possibility that its over too early. so we'll see.

i think a lot of people have problems thinking their personal likes + dislikes are objective measures of quality. like people really will say shit like "one piece is bad" and then recommend some trash chinese war manga telling the same story everyones seen 4000 times about dudes crying and armies getting killed and say its better than james joyce

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2022

people who say things like this have literally never read a book their school didn't make them read, for example. or they think reading warhammer fanfic is "reading novels"

Cope, I've probably read more books in the last five years than you read manga in your entire life. One Piece is the McDonald's of manga.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Cope, I've probably read more books in the last five years than you read manga in your entire life. One Piece is the McDonald's of manga.

youve read see spot run 500 times trying to understand it lmfao.

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2022

What got you hooked to OP in the first place. I think the Luffy vs Kaido is the first fight (might be wrong) where Luffy comes up with the having fun thing (DBZ is the biggest criminal in this regard). I just liked the idea and the interactions and the goofiness, was not that much into power scaling but liked that the MC was relative to his own nakamas. Alabasta, Dressrosa and Wano are those arcs where nobody from the crew has any sort of personal connection with the villains. Vivi, Law and Momo are the characters to establish some connection in this case.
It does not need to be peak fiction to be popular, I mean look at the target demographic and then think why would the story need to be a literature masterpiece. I mean people can find a lot of problems with Lord of the Rings but it is one of the most popular ones out there. Maybe the ones enjoying are the ones who the manga is mainly targeted at and just because of the longevity of the manga some have just outgrown the story and the style.
OP is not peak fiction but it is still a work of art, one which is the second most sold comic in the whole world. The ones competing with it I think have been ongoing for almost a century.

what got me into it is that its about characters, emotions, and lore and not about autistic explanations of power systems and power levels. 1050 chapters in and still no explanation of haki or devil fruits because its all very obvious and works on the page and autism about fucking power systems doesnt make writing any better.

if oda could just write like brandon sanderson and have every character be the exact same but spend hundreds of pages explaining here are all the different branches of obs haki.here are all the branches of armament haki. here is all the things you can do w conquerors. then introduce a character who breaks all the rules that got established and kills usopp and sanji. then everyone in this thread would be like OHHH MY GOOOOOOD IT HAD RULES BUT THE COOL GUY BREAKS THE RULES THIS IS PEAK FICTIOOOOON!!! but id probably drop it because it would then just be empty trash like 99 percent of shonen and popular fantasy fiction

 

[Herrera95]

Now where this idea of a masterpiece need to have a variety of different structures, storytelling and creative twists?

What's wrong with repetitive formulas that works and make sure all arcs of story are great?

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

One Piece is simply the best long running shonen,
and that doesn't say a lot, when your competition is Dragon Ball, Bleach, Naruto + Shippuden, etc.

There are Hunter Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist.

Also if you're talking about manga in general...
Peak Manga? One Piece doesn't get close, besides being peak in LENGTH and WORLD BUILDING.

Battle Angel Alita
20th Century Boys
Battle Royal
Berserk (depends on how it'll end, it actually has some of one piece's problems towards the end)
Oyasumi Punpun
Kaiji, Akagi, Ten
Jojo (part 7)

And there are probably way more better manga I have never read, I'm not really into manga

hxh - formalist genre study. shallow. only exists to do stock shonen scenarios and situations and "subvert expectations". no actual depth, all characters are shallow archetypes with one or two twists, worldbuilding is nonsense because it doesnt matter to togashi. read hxh if you like to feel smart by predicting what will happen and guessing "twists".

fma - trash generic steampunk war crap. cheap emotional manipulation and tragedy porn + short guy jokes. people only like this if theyre teenagers trying to be into "adult" stories. more shallow characters, bad villains. just a war story for kids.

alita - very good art and sci fi stuff but its just a regular manga. the story is nothing special, its all worldbuilding and cool panels. this is fine but its not peak anything.

20th century boys - urasawa is one of the best manga artists ever in terms of realistic faces and grounded character design. this is a good manga that is probably twice as long as it needs to be and feels like it takes forever to accomplish anything.

battle royal - complete trash for mentally stunted adults or teenagers reading My First Gory Manga

berserk - miura is one of the greatest pen and ink artists in manga history. the story is just suffering and torture porn and only started to get good before he died.

oyasumi punpun - manga for ppl who date girls with cutting scars

kaiji, agaki, ten - fukumoto is a legendary genius of all time and i wont say anything bad about these. you forgot Legend of the Strongest, Kurosawa! which is maybe his best work and one of the greatest manga ever written in human history.

jojo part 7 - its just more jojos. its good but its only good for ppl who are all-in on jojos and willing to tolerate all araki's bullshit and handwaving and nonsense.

 

[dirtyLarry]

youve read see spot run 500 times trying to understand it lmfao.

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2022

what got me into it is that its about characters, emotions, and lore and not about autistic explanations of power systems and power levels. 1050 chapters in and still no explanation of haki or devil fruits because its all very obvious and works on the page and autism about fucking power systems doesnt make writing any better.

if oda could just write like brandon sanderson and have every character be the exact same but spend hundreds of pages explaining here are all the different branches of obs haki.here are all the branches of armament haki. here is all the things you can do w conquerors. then introduce a character who breaks all the rules that got established and kills usopp and sanji. then everyone in this thread would be like OHHH MY GOOOOOOD IT HAD RULES BUT THE COOL GUY BREAKS THE RULES THIS IS PEAK FICTIOOOOON!!! but id probably drop it because it would then just be empty trash like 99 percent of shonen and popular fantasy fiction

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

You act like OP is something different or better than your generic shonen.

It isn't.

In absolutely no way tbh.

I even outlined in my original post how repetitive and stereotyped all the arc are.

It's a nice shonen, but that's about it.

People that try to spin it like it's so much better than sth like Demon Slayer or MHA are a real nuisance imho, because it just isn't.

I won't even start with top shonen like FMA or HxH. Comparing them to OP in terms of writing would be an insult to them.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

You act like OP is something different or better than your generic shonen.

It isn't.

In absolutely no way tbh.

I even outlined in my original post how repetitive and stereotyped all the arc are.

It's a nice shonen, but that's about it.

People that try to spin it like it's so much better than sth like Demon Slayer or MHA are a real nuisance imho, because it just isn't.

I won't even start with top shonen like FMA or HxH. Comparing them to OP in terms of writing would be an insult to them.

You're allowed to like or dislike whatever you want but stop pretending you have objective facts. It makes you look bad.

 

[Konstantis]

Lower then generic right now

 

[Monster Luffy]

The only thing left is to find a post where I used grandmaster to address Zoro.
And your response doesnt change my initial post that Luffy fans are those who eat up anything Oda serves on the plate.

Lol, okay. Yeah sure you have never referred Zoro as grandmaster, hmmm. 🤣🤣
Whom are you fooling now

No, you are wrong. Luffy fans won't eat up anything that serves on the plate. No fanbase one does that. Luffy fans do hate some of the oda choices. Otherwise you won't find 'salty' Luffy fans.

 

[sanjikun]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

You act like OP is something different or better than your generic shonen.

It isn't.

In absolutely no way tbh.

I even outlined in my original post how repetitive and stereotyped all the arc are.

It's a nice shonen, but that's about it.

People that try to spin it like it's so much better than sth like Demon Slayer or MHA are a real nuisance imho, because it just isn't.

I won't even start with top shonen like FMA or HxH. Comparing them to OP in terms of writing would be an insult to them.

Fictions don't usually last 1000+ chapters...

Yes, OP writing can get very sloppy, generic, inconsistent, etc. and suffer from the same overused tropes as other shonens, but even objectively speaking it has a certain lasting power than no one other manga other than maybe Detective Conan has. To me it's because of its world-building which is second to none in the manga space.

 

[kanon]

I doubt it. Barely saw that marketing investment here in Europe some years ago (10).

Only it was known to those ppl who already were in touch with Japan's manga culture, and those years ago they were otakus, in the true sense of negative connotation of this word. And a small % who watched it on TV.
Nowadays is totally different. And I'm pretty sure that "peak fiction/masterpiece" showed up in those times, not the current ones. The Jump didnt care about western market unlike today.

So it's not because of its marketing, for sure.

OP maybe didn't reached Europe yet by that time but it's sure popular in Asian already. And tbh, not many European care that much about mangas anyway so Jump just don't try marketing it for them.

 

[Mtusi Ibusisi Mbungulu]

what is this shit? One Piss is king

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

ONE PIECE IS TRASH

all of you crybabies ignoring my threads now did I hurt your feelings? :(

 

[Weeman]

It's got some of the most emotionally cathartic and plain epic moments of any fiction i've seen but the actual connective tissue between those moments is what has degraded over the course of the story.

When you have moments as great as those it's only natural that people hype it up in an exaggerated way, but yeah people can get really defensive about it when they attach their identity to a piece of fiction they have no control over.

 

[kanon]

Fictions don't usually last 1000+ chapters...

Yes, OP writing can get very sloppy, generic, inconsistent, etc. and suffer from the same overused tropes as other shonens, but even objectively speaking it has a certain lasting power than no one other manga other than maybe Detective Conan has. To me it's because of its world-building which is second to none in the manga space.

Conan is the author's milking cow, 90% of the plot is just some random case that Gosho randomly pull out from real life case. And for why it's not getting axed yet because those diehard fan invest to much time for it or those sells product keeps stupidly defend them.
And OP's world building ? 80% of world building is still in mist because Oda and Gosho won't reveal shit to drag it out longer.

 

[Monster Luffy]

Anyways If i am being 'objective' , the one who made this thread got pissed because someone are obsessed with the product which he doesn't share the same feeling.

This same person talks about how redon gets 'pissed' about other certain things. 🤣🤣🤣

Is there anything more funny than this.

 

[uyuu]

So in short: Where does this nonsense even come from?

On Twitter, reddit & Co. it seems like you are a heretic, if you even dare suggest that OP is not the epitome of manga history.

One Piece is a very fun read and certainly has its strengths (mainly worldbuilding), but it is nowhere near a "masterpiece" or "peak fiction" in terms of storywriting. Not even compared to other shonen.

I could come up with countless story inconsistencies and very iffy plot-points (especially those in Wano that are still fresh), but lets just take a look at the general buildup of the story today.

We have 1053 chapters now, consisting of many arcs. From a "masterpiece" you would expect most arcs to have a differing structure, creative twists and generally a lot of variety in storytelling itself.

If you look at One Piece however, outside of that Amazon Lily - Marineford stretch, each arc is basically a copy-paste version of the other arcs. Only thing that differs is that Oda slaps a different overlaying theme on it (loyalty, racism, leadership etc.). Otherwise it goes like this every single time:

1) Reaching a new island
2) Splitting up and having a short adventure
3) Meeting the locals (most of the time a young female emerges as lead side-character for the arc)
4) Learn about the problems on that island and the enemies
5) Have a first encounter with the enemies that doesn't go well
6) Flashback of this arcs lead side-character (emphasizing the tragedy on that island)
7) SHs regroup
8) Final round against the antagonists
9) Island-wide threat is introduced (nuke in Alabasta, Advent of Thunder in Skypiea, Buster Call in EL, Birdcage in DR, Fire/Bombs in Onigashima etc.)
10) SHs win and banish the island-wide threat
11) Banquet and leaving for the next island
12) Rinse and repeat

Now like I said: One Piece is still a fun read (I wouldn't be here otherwise), but that insanely repetitive structure for over 1053 chapters (!) is more than enough to disqualify One Piece from the "masterpiece" label when it comes to storywriting.

It's really just your basic, generic shonen.

That's why I really can't comprehend how fans seemingly really believe it is such a genius work. Yes, it is good for a shonen (well, especially pre-skip) and enjoyable, but man oh man, have those "peak fiction" yellers even read one story outside of One Piece or ever learned the basics about literature to come to such wild conclusions?

I agree about this extreme redundance stuff. Do you have any fantasy manga recommendation that is worthy of not being redundant between arcs? Aside big names like HxH?

 

[York]

One Piece is a generic shonen because a shit ton of the shonen manga that came after it is aping it so hard. But every neo-One Piece is dogshit compared to the original

 

[Nagasaki]

This myth was created after we saw Robin's flashback.

 

[Cregan]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

You act like OP is something different or better than your generic shonen.

It isn't.

In absolutely no way tbh.

I even outlined in my original post how repetitive and stereotyped all the arc are.

It's a nice shonen, but that's about it.

People that try to spin it like it's so much better than sth like Demon Slayer or MHA are a real nuisance imho, because it just isn't.

I won't even start with top shonen like FMA or HxH. Comparing them to OP in terms of writing would be an insult to them.

HxH is totally overated BS, Arlong Park is better than hole HxH.