Theory The Romance of Fantasy - The Grand Monet Theory
- Thread starter Tokiro Oumaga
- Start date
Funny enough, I actually did provide a wealth of evidence to suggest that she's relevant. It's a bit long, but the response has been mostly positive, so you may find it a fun read! https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/the-romance-of-fantasy-the-grand-monet-theory.4984/
I was reading through your theory because I also love the idea of Monet being alive and noticed that you theorize that the sky islander’s wings are decorations. I’m not sure if you knew this, but in One Piece Databook Yellow, it says they are such.
My Japanese isn’t that good, but it says something like this:
Skypiea Residents: The wings on their backs don’t move or enable them to fly, so they seem to be a common decoration for the sky island residents.
I’m unsure of how reputable the databooks are, but it is something to help substantiate that theory.
My Japanese isn’t that good, but it says something like this:
Skypiea Residents: The wings on their backs don’t move or enable them to fly, so they seem to be a common decoration for the sky island residents.
I’m unsure of how reputable the databooks are, but it is something to help substantiate that theory.
I was reading through your theory because I also love the idea of Monet being alive and noticed that you theorize that the sky islander’s wings are decorations. I’m not sure if you knew this, but in One Piece Databook Yellow, it says they are such.
My Japanese isn’t that good, but it says something like this:
Skypiea Residents: The wings on their backs don’t move or enable them to fly, so they seem to be a common decoration for the sky island residents.
I’m unsure of how reputable the databooks are, but it is something to help substantiate that theory.
My Japanese isn’t that good, but it says something like this:
Skypiea Residents: The wings on their backs don’t move or enable them to fly, so they seem to be a common decoration for the sky island residents.
I’m unsure of how reputable the databooks are, but it is something to help substantiate that theory.
The databooks are credited as being written by Oda, so even if they're actually ghostwritten by someone else, I think they're meant to be taken as canon, or at least can be seen as reliable.
Thank you for finding this, I'm pretty sure Databook Yellow hasn't been officially translated yet, so I don't think I ever would have come across this on my own.
I agree for me, If I were to dissagree, I wouldn't just respond like this is "Bullshit or Trash" @Tokiro Oumaga put all the work in this theory so I would respectfully responded when it come to this.
From what I can find, it isn't stated that "her fate is unclear." It's stated that "she was pierced through the heart by Caesar," without explicitly stating that "she died." It's vague, but it tells us the exact information that we already know. I don't think it's enough to base the entire theory around it, but it is mighty suspicious.
It is different, but I think that Flagandhat is justified in seeing hope in it. Remember, in a previous databook, it was explicitly stated that Sabo was dead, only for it to later turn out that he was alive.
In this case, they're not even trying to sell us on the idea that she's dead, they know we're wise to that now. Instead, they just present the information exactly as we know it and let us draw our own conclusions, which gives both sides of the fanbase more leeway rather than being deceitful.
In this case, they're not even trying to sell us on the idea that she's dead, they know we're wise to that now. Instead, they just present the information exactly as we know it and let us draw our own conclusions, which gives both sides of the fanbase more leeway rather than being deceitful.
HI @DKI and @Tokiro Oumaga . I don´t know how to quote the both of you at the same time. Maybe i am wrong or i am reading a bad page about the vivre card of monet. But it says that "her eventual fate is not clarified but it mentions that she was pierced by caesar".
As tokiro says, in my opinion. This is a good point for us. The reason is symple. In the vivre card in no moment you can see anything like "She is dead". You can only read "she was injured or pierced by caesar". In the sabo vivre card, at the first, it "says" that sabo is dead. And then, sabo is alive and the new vivre card says that he is alive. Well, the vivre card info only says the recently information that we have.
But it is good. Because if we think, it only says that "she was pierced" but it doesnt says "she is dead". In my mind, it says something like "the last time that we saw monet, she was injured, pierced o received a hit by caesar". IF SHE REALLY is dead. The vivre card should said "dead" instead "pierced by caesar". If she is dead, in the vivre card should says somethin like "she is dead because caesar pierced her heart..." But it only says "she was injured or pierced".
And it is weird to me. If in a sentence you write "she was pierced by someone". If she or he is dead, you should say that he or she is dead. If you only put "she or he was pierced or injured" and you don´t says anything more. Is like if you are going to write something more about the character. For example. "Pound was wounded by oven". If you don´t write anything more, is like pound is not dead. You should write "Pound was wounded and died by oven". "Oden received a shot by kaido" If you dont write anything more, it is like if you are saying that Oden will not die by that... You should write "Oden received a shot by kaido and he died"
Why Oda - Vivre card will try to avoid the word "dead or death" and in other times like sabo we can read "dead"? If you only write if someone was injured, is like if you are saying that is that character not died by that wound... I hope you can undestand me.
In my opinion, the answer is easy. Is so obvious to oda - vivre card editors that monet is alive or something like that. Or the are try not say anything more by the same reason. In the manga and in the vivre card, the intention is the same. Monet will survive or not?. And if they are doing that, is for something more...
Well, it is only my opinion.
As tokiro says, in my opinion. This is a good point for us. The reason is symple. In the vivre card in no moment you can see anything like "She is dead". You can only read "she was injured or pierced by caesar". In the sabo vivre card, at the first, it "says" that sabo is dead. And then, sabo is alive and the new vivre card says that he is alive. Well, the vivre card info only says the recently information that we have.
But it is good. Because if we think, it only says that "she was pierced" but it doesnt says "she is dead". In my mind, it says something like "the last time that we saw monet, she was injured, pierced o received a hit by caesar". IF SHE REALLY is dead. The vivre card should said "dead" instead "pierced by caesar". If she is dead, in the vivre card should says somethin like "she is dead because caesar pierced her heart..." But it only says "she was injured or pierced".
And it is weird to me. If in a sentence you write "she was pierced by someone". If she or he is dead, you should say that he or she is dead. If you only put "she or he was pierced or injured" and you don´t says anything more. Is like if you are going to write something more about the character. For example. "Pound was wounded by oven". If you don´t write anything more, is like pound is not dead. You should write "Pound was wounded and died by oven". "Oden received a shot by kaido" If you dont write anything more, it is like if you are saying that Oden will not die by that... You should write "Oden received a shot by kaido and he died"
Why Oda - Vivre card will try to avoid the word "dead or death" and in other times like sabo we can read "dead"? If you only write if someone was injured, is like if you are saying that is that character not died by that wound... I hope you can undestand me.
In my opinion, the answer is easy. Is so obvious to oda - vivre card editors that monet is alive or something like that. Or the are try not say anything more by the same reason. In the manga and in the vivre card, the intention is the same. Monet will survive or not?. And if they are doing that, is for something more...
Well, it is only my opinion.
That is a good point, making Yamato a werewolf-like figure definitely gives credence to him being our moon representative, especially since he claims to be a member of the Kozuki, a moon-themed clan. I particularly like the idea of each of the Beauties being a different type of Devil Fruit user.
Still, I see a few reasons why Yamato doesn't quite fit. Firstly, I'm still of the opinion that Yamato's gender identity disqualifies him as a "female Straw Hat." I don't know if Oda feels that way, so I could be wrong, but I have to go based on my understanding of the situation.
Secondly, while Okuchi no Makami is a wolf deity, its mythology doesn't seem to have any explicit relation to the moon the way that European wolf legends tend to. That doesn't necessarily mean it has no relation to the moon, just that the most commonly associated myths don't mention it.
Yamato's mythical wolf Devil Fruit definitely does give him a bit more of an edge in my considerations for recruits, but I don't personally include him in my candidates for female recruits.
Still, I see a few reasons why Yamato doesn't quite fit. Firstly, I'm still of the opinion that Yamato's gender identity disqualifies him as a "female Straw Hat." I don't know if Oda feels that way, so I could be wrong, but I have to go based on my understanding of the situation.
Secondly, while Okuchi no Makami is a wolf deity, its mythology doesn't seem to have any explicit relation to the moon the way that European wolf legends tend to. That doesn't necessarily mean it has no relation to the moon, just that the most commonly associated myths don't mention it.
Yamato's mythical wolf Devil Fruit definitely does give him a bit more of an edge in my considerations for recruits, but I don't personally include him in my candidates for female recruits.
I personally still think that Yamato’s gender is a she. Yamato’s obsession of Oden is on the whole level, especially when she says “Oden is a man, right? So I become a man too.” That means if Oden were a woman she would have been a woman too. Not to mention this:
Pretty much shows that she knows she is Yamato. Oden is just a role she took it literally. And if Yamato is considered a trans-man and as a “he”, then it would be better in Monet’s case, especially the MFMM part. The previous pattern could be MFMM, but it was pre-timeskip. Post timeskip, Oda reversed it to be MMFM. It fits especially if pre-timeskip is pretty much mirroring the post-timeskip. So after Jinbe (M) & Yamato (M) we can have Monet before the final male. And I think it’s a win win situation, especially if MFMM pattern is too predictable. Oda can just simply mirror it, and make Yamato the ambiguous situation.
For Yamato & wolf part, we can consider that Oda may combine both of Japanese & Western culture. Remember Sodom & Gomorrah back then during Enies Lobby? A fan asked in SBS whether they will be killed by World Govt because the real Sodom & Gomorra were destroyed by God in Old Testament, Oda simply answered that One Piece’s story isn’t that deep, but he surely took their name from the bible. So seeing how Yamato’s hybrid form is sort of she-wolf look, Oda may intentionally combine werewolf & Ooguchi no Magami into Yamato. Here’s the interesting thing:
That’s from Strong World movie back then in 2009. Oda pretty much hinted about Kaido & Yamato’s fight. Oda wants to make Kaido & Yamato the complete opposite. I kinda believe that Oda wanted to make a nakama who is based on werewolf without the needs to use full moon to transform, but also can connect to Japanese lore. That’s why Oda took the Ooguchi no Magami fruit to be Yamato’s, and basically minks are beta test for Yamato.
Pretty much shows that she knows she is Yamato. Oden is just a role she took it literally. And if Yamato is considered a trans-man and as a “he”, then it would be better in Monet’s case, especially the MFMM part. The previous pattern could be MFMM, but it was pre-timeskip. Post timeskip, Oda reversed it to be MMFM. It fits especially if pre-timeskip is pretty much mirroring the post-timeskip. So after Jinbe (M) & Yamato (M) we can have Monet before the final male. And I think it’s a win win situation, especially if MFMM pattern is too predictable. Oda can just simply mirror it, and make Yamato the ambiguous situation.
For Yamato & wolf part, we can consider that Oda may combine both of Japanese & Western culture. Remember Sodom & Gomorrah back then during Enies Lobby? A fan asked in SBS whether they will be killed by World Govt because the real Sodom & Gomorra were destroyed by God in Old Testament, Oda simply answered that One Piece’s story isn’t that deep, but he surely took their name from the bible. So seeing how Yamato’s hybrid form is sort of she-wolf look, Oda may intentionally combine werewolf & Ooguchi no Magami into Yamato. Here’s the interesting thing:
That’s from Strong World movie back then in 2009. Oda pretty much hinted about Kaido & Yamato’s fight. Oda wants to make Kaido & Yamato the complete opposite. I kinda believe that Oda wanted to make a nakama who is based on werewolf without the needs to use full moon to transform, but also can connect to Japanese lore. That’s why Oda took the Ooguchi no Magami fruit to be Yamato’s, and basically minks are beta test for Yamato.
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I personally still think that Yamato’s gender is a she. Yamato’s obsession of Oden is on the whole level, especially when she says “Oden is a man, right? So I become a man too.” That means if Oden were a woman she would have been a woman too. Not to mention this:
Pretty much shows that she knows she is Yamato. Oden is just a role she took it literally. And if Yamato is considered a trans-man and as a “he”, then it would be better in Monet’s case, especially the MFMM part. The previous pattern could be MFMM, but it was pre-timeskip. Post timeskip, Oda reversed it to be MMFM. It fits especially if pre-timeskip is pretty much mirroring the post-timeskip. So after Jinbe (M) & Yamato (M) we can have Monet before the final male. And I think it’s a win win situation, especially if MFMM pattern is too predictable. Oda can just simply mirror it, and make Yamato the ambiguous situation.
For Yamato & wolf part, we can consider that Oda may combine both of Japanese & Western culture. Remember Sodom & Gomorrah back then during Enies Lobby? A fan asked in SBS whether they will be killed by World Govt because the real Sodom & Gomorra were destroyed by God in Old Testament, Oda simply answered that One Piece’s story isn’t that deep, but he surely took their name from the bible. So seeing how Yamato’s hybrid form is sort of she-wolf look, Oda may intentionally combine werewolf & Ooguchi no Magami into Yamato. Here’s the interesting thing:
That’s from Strong World movie back then in 2009. Oda pretty much hinted about Kaido & Yamato’s fight. Oda wants to make Kaido & Yamato the complete opposite. I kinda believe that Oda wanted to make a nakama who is based on werewolf without the needs to use full moon to transform, but also can connect to Japanese lore. That’s why Oda took the Ooguchi no Magami fruit to be Yamato’s, and basically minks are beta test for Yamato.
Pretty much shows that she knows she is Yamato. Oden is just a role she took it literally. And if Yamato is considered a trans-man and as a “he”, then it would be better in Monet’s case, especially the MFMM part. The previous pattern could be MFMM, but it was pre-timeskip. Post timeskip, Oda reversed it to be MMFM. It fits especially if pre-timeskip is pretty much mirroring the post-timeskip. So after Jinbe (M) & Yamato (M) we can have Monet before the final male. And I think it’s a win win situation, especially if MFMM pattern is too predictable. Oda can just simply mirror it, and make Yamato the ambiguous situation.
For Yamato & wolf part, we can consider that Oda may combine both of Japanese & Western culture. Remember Sodom & Gomorrah back then during Enies Lobby? A fan asked in SBS whether they will be killed by World Govt because the real Sodom & Gomorra were destroyed by God in Old Testament, Oda simply answered that One Piece’s story isn’t that deep, but he surely took their name from the bible. So seeing how Yamato’s hybrid form is sort of she-wolf look, Oda may intentionally combine werewolf & Ooguchi no Magami into Yamato. Here’s the interesting thing:
That’s from Strong World movie back then in 2009. Oda pretty much hinted about Kaido & Yamato’s fight. Oda wants to make Kaido & Yamato the complete opposite. I kinda believe that Oda wanted to make a nakama who is based on werewolf without the needs to use full moon to transform, but also can connect to Japanese lore. That’s why Oda took the Ooguchi no Magami fruit to be Yamato’s, and basically minks are beta test for Yamato.
As for Yamato taking inspiration from werewolves, I can definitely see it, I would just like it if Oda gave Yamato a more explicit connection to the moon if he intends for him to be the Moon Beauty. I still feel that Carrot works better on the basis that she explicitly has a tie to the moon in her Sulong ability. Yamato's idolization of the Kozuki clan may be enough for some, but not for me, so I'm reserving judgment until Oda tells us more about Yamato's abilities and theming.
I still believe that Oda might reverse the MFMM pattern to be MMFM. That’s why if Oda considers Yamato as a trans-man, then Monet definitely can have the spot during Vegapunk arc later. Oda can still fit on the pattern just by simply mirroring the post-timeskip recruits.
mink tribe is not just Carrot, right? But also Wanda, Inuarashi, Nekomamushi, etc. Carrot definitely can’t fit with the alphabet theory, because SHs have already had Chopper. Carrot’s case was pretty similar with how Rebecca (R), Shirahoshi (S) and Bartolomeo (B) that because of the existence of the current SHs they highly won’t join.
Not to mention that Carrot’s been absent like 15 chapters or so (at this point she’s irrelevant) and Carrot doesn’t eat any DF at all, hence with each beauties are representative of each type of DF (and Nami as a non DF), Carrot can’t fit in.
And at least there is no SHs with Y letter as beginning of their name, and I must honestly say that Monet is way better character. She’s one of the most interesting female villains Oda has ever created, and I still don’t want if her DF goes to someone (especially Carrot).
Again as I said, minks are basically beta test for Yamato. Seeing how fans hate Carrot but like her Sulong form, Oda applies Sulong to Yamato in better way & without the need of night & full moon. TBH I still don’t understand why people like Carrot so much especially to be a nakama. The final battle is pretty much with BBP & Akainu; and both are competent Logias. Monet will be more competent to be a fighter, she could even stall Luffy, and Zoro along with Tashigi, while Carrot could stall nameless Big Mom ships.
Imagine if during the final fight if Carrot surely became a nakama, she will need to fight during night & especially full moon. Once the moon is not available/covered, she’s basically useless. I think it’s not rocket science to understand that Oda showed her & Wanda tagging Perospero, only to be defeated because the moon is covered.
mink tribe is not just Carrot, right? But also Wanda, Inuarashi, Nekomamushi, etc. Carrot definitely can’t fit with the alphabet theory, because SHs have already had Chopper. Carrot’s case was pretty similar with how Rebecca (R), Shirahoshi (S) and Bartolomeo (B) that because of the existence of the current SHs they highly won’t join.
Not to mention that Carrot’s been absent like 15 chapters or so (at this point she’s irrelevant) and Carrot doesn’t eat any DF at all, hence with each beauties are representative of each type of DF (and Nami as a non DF), Carrot can’t fit in.
And at least there is no SHs with Y letter as beginning of their name, and I must honestly say that Monet is way better character. She’s one of the most interesting female villains Oda has ever created, and I still don’t want if her DF goes to someone (especially Carrot).
Again as I said, minks are basically beta test for Yamato. Seeing how fans hate Carrot but like her Sulong form, Oda applies Sulong to Yamato in better way & without the need of night & full moon. TBH I still don’t understand why people like Carrot so much especially to be a nakama. The final battle is pretty much with BBP & Akainu; and both are competent Logias. Monet will be more competent to be a fighter, she could even stall Luffy, and Zoro along with Tashigi, while Carrot could stall nameless Big Mom ships.
Imagine if during the final fight if Carrot surely became a nakama, she will need to fight during night & especially full moon. Once the moon is not available/covered, she’s basically useless. I think it’s not rocket science to understand that Oda showed her & Wanda tagging Perospero, only to be defeated because the moon is covered.
While there isn't a Y or M Straw Hat, that's not really how the Alphabet Theory works. The letters are in pairs so as to make 13 possible slots, the most commonly accepted number of Straw Hats. With that in mind, Nami takes the MN pair from Monet while Zoro takes the YZ pair from Yamato. Some people believe that Yamato will get the OP pair with "Oden," but that assumes that Oda considers Yamato's Oden-based identity as valid, while also opening up the possibility that aliases or alternate names qualify for the Alphabet Theory, an idea that I got a lot of pushback for some time ago.
Personally, I think it's more likely that the Alphabet Pattern was a coincidence the whole time since almost none of the best fitting candidates actually fit anymore, but the possibility obviously exists that Monet's real name might fit GH, OP or WX, and this may apply to Yamato, Carrot, or anyone else as well.
I really don't think that's an issue. Luffy could only use his Gears for a limited time, but that time limit either keeps shrinking or has disappeared entirely. Chopper could only use the Rumble Ball for three minutes and only twice in an hour without being forced into Monster Point, then only needed the Rumble Ball for Monster Point, and now can use Monster Point for half an hour instead of three minutes. Weaknesses get reduced or eliminated all the time; why couldn't Carrot get some kind of upgrade that allows her to enter Sulong as she pleases?
I think it was in this theory, but maybe in another one, where I suggested that if the crew goes to the moon that Carrot could get a moonrock that reflects light well enough for her to use Sulong anywhere. Oda can come up with any absurd workaround he wants, and I'm confident he will. If anything, the Perospero fight was meant to highlight the need for Carrot to either find a way to circumvent Sulong's weakness or come up with something better so she won't have to rely on it.
Personally, I think it's more likely that the Alphabet Pattern was a coincidence the whole time since almost none of the best fitting candidates actually fit anymore, but the possibility obviously exists that Monet's real name might fit GH, OP or WX, and this may apply to Yamato, Carrot, or anyone else as well.
I really don't think that's an issue. Luffy could only use his Gears for a limited time, but that time limit either keeps shrinking or has disappeared entirely. Chopper could only use the Rumble Ball for three minutes and only twice in an hour without being forced into Monster Point, then only needed the Rumble Ball for Monster Point, and now can use Monster Point for half an hour instead of three minutes. Weaknesses get reduced or eliminated all the time; why couldn't Carrot get some kind of upgrade that allows her to enter Sulong as she pleases?
I think it was in this theory, but maybe in another one, where I suggested that if the crew goes to the moon that Carrot could get a moonrock that reflects light well enough for her to use Sulong anywhere. Oda can come up with any absurd workaround he wants, and I'm confident he will. If anything, the Perospero fight was meant to highlight the need for Carrot to either find a way to circumvent Sulong's weakness or come up with something better so she won't have to rely on it.
It’s pretty much different case with Luffy & Chopper. Remember that both Luffy & Chopper are DF users, while Carrot is not. We’re about to face the endgame, and even other SHs don’t have that much spotlight to have powerups as Oda focused on Monster Trio. Again, Carrot hasn’t been relevant again until today. I don’t think Oda will focus on a PU of a character while there are still many SHs who need PU. And each SH has had prominent role prior joining. Let me ask: between Carrot & Yamato, who has got more spotlight these days?
Carrot, without having haki, nor DF pretty much become a burden to SHs. Not to mention that every single female SHs were once related to the main villain, and also at this point Carrot doesn’t have any terrible past. Not strong enough, not relevant enough. At least weak trio are the best at what they do to cover their weakness, and even Usopp has CoO. If I may ask, why do you like Carrot though? I understand if you like Monet, she’s a very interesting character. Great personality, great design, awesome power. But from liking Monet to Carrot? TBH that’s a massive downgrade. I believe if Oda didn’t decide to apparently kill Monet, people will consider her as a huge nakama potential. These days people seemingly ignore Monet because she’s apparently dead. If she’s alive, I bet the hype will be much bigger, and honestly I prefer Oda spend time more on Monet in later arcs than Carrot
Regarding the alphabet theory it still could happen though, although with very slim chance. Franky’s real name was Cutty Flam. So unless Carrot changes her name to fit GH, WX, OP, she’ll still pretty much share the same fate like Rebecca, Vivi, Shirahoshi, Bartolomeo, etc. and honestly I don’t think Carrot will change her name
Carrot, without having haki, nor DF pretty much become a burden to SHs. Not to mention that every single female SHs were once related to the main villain, and also at this point Carrot doesn’t have any terrible past. Not strong enough, not relevant enough. At least weak trio are the best at what they do to cover their weakness, and even Usopp has CoO. If I may ask, why do you like Carrot though? I understand if you like Monet, she’s a very interesting character. Great personality, great design, awesome power. But from liking Monet to Carrot? TBH that’s a massive downgrade. I believe if Oda didn’t decide to apparently kill Monet, people will consider her as a huge nakama potential. These days people seemingly ignore Monet because she’s apparently dead. If she’s alive, I bet the hype will be much bigger, and honestly I prefer Oda spend time more on Monet in later arcs than Carrot
Regarding the alphabet theory it still could happen though, although with very slim chance. Franky’s real name was Cutty Flam. So unless Carrot changes her name to fit GH, WX, OP, she’ll still pretty much share the same fate like Rebecca, Vivi, Shirahoshi, Bartolomeo, etc. and honestly I don’t think Carrot will change her name
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