General & Others the swordsmen debate

#81
Except it's the dream of one of the main cast. So it has to be absolute.
The title will be truly absolute for Zoro when he obtains it. Its not absolute for Mihawk currently.

People being able to surpass Zoro EOS are gonna be rare as fuck. **** probably gonna get 3 black blades.

While even a couple years ago (Assuming Mihawk had a black blade when they fought) Shanks could rival Mihawk without a black blade himself. Do you see ***** outflexing or matching Zoro's skill when he's the greatest swordsman ever? Do you the shit that happened in MF to Mihawk happening with EoS Zoro? Because I dont lol. He's the protagonist, so he's destined to be sword jesus. This is what Oda been building up to
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#83
The title will be truly absolute for Zoro when he obtains it. Its not absolute for Mihawk currently.

People being able to surpass Zoro EOS are gonna be rare as fuck. **** probably gonna get 3 black blades.

While even a couple years ago (Assuming Mihawk had a black blade when they fought) Shanks could rival Mihawk without a black blade himself. Do you see ***** outflexing or matching Zoro's skill when he's the greatest swordsman ever? Do you the shit that happened in MF to Mihawk happening with EoS Zoro? Because I dont lol. He's the protagonist, so he's destined to be sword jesus. This is what Oda been building up to
Youre contradicting yourself if zoro wins the title from mihawk and its not absolute for mihawk it wont be absolute for zoro cause he hasnt beat the strongest.
 
#87
Swordsman in One piece
Zoro : Creates illusions, summons demons,
Cabaji : Rides a tricycle spits fire
Hachi : spits ink and also from time to time throws punches
Brook : Can put you to sleep with music, also uses the coldness from his soul to enhance his sword (Similar to Big Mom)
Law : Creates a spherical room which he is capable of teleportation and switching objects around
Killer : Uses two scythes
Cavendish : Capable of being possessed by a demon by falling asleep
Fujitora : Calls meteors, forces gravity weight on his opponents
Hawkins : uses puppets to take his damage & cards for enhancements
Diamante : carries a handgun, carries confetti blasters to release spiked iron balls and an iron umbrella to protect himself from them
Smoothie : Absorbs liquids and uses it to cut down opponents

There are additional wacky swordsman .. so what is a "real" swordsman ??
 
#89
Why wasn't he WSM? Who was stronger than him?

Also, "ask Oda"? Really? My boy, you should realize if you have to give a half assed answer like that then you're entire argument is likely flawed.
Whitebeard was neck and neck with Roger.

Roger couldn't be WSM if there is someone who is his equal, I could be wrong but I believe Whitebeard earned the title WSM after Rogers death.
 
#90
Youre contradicting yourself if zoro wins the title from mihawk and its not absolute for mihawk it wont be absolute for zoro cause he hasnt beat the strongest.
Zoro is gonna gain every skill required to fully surpass Mihawk as a swordsman. Only then he will be the strongest ever.

This is why Oda is over stacking the fuck outta Luffy with abilities. Part of Luffy's personal definition of being PK is beating everyone else. He cant be above everyone if he doesnt have God CoO, God CoA, God CoC, God Awakening and God DF mastery in general.

Zoro's needs GoD CoA and God Sword Skill.

I'm still on the fence about Zoro actually getting to beat Mihawk in the end, since I lowkey believe that theory that someone gonna get to Mihawk before Zoro and Zoro fighting that person before him.

Why? Because Oda pretty much showed us (again assuming Mihawk had a black blade even back then) that you dont actually need a Black Blade to rival Mihawk. Because Shanks did it before and based on the VC Vista can rival him too. If Zoro gonna truly surpass all swordsman, he need someone to fight that you cant rival or beat without a black blade. Because at the rate things are going Zoro finna be already stronger than Mihawk by the time the fighting time comes around.

(Speculation of course, but again at the rate things are going lol)
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#91
Zoro is gonna gain every skill required to fully surpass Mihawk as a swordsman. Only then he will be the strongest ever.

This is why Oda is over stacking the fuck outta Luffy with abilities. Part of Luffy's personal definition of being PK is beating everyone else. He cant be above everyone if he doesnt have God CoO, God CoA, God CoC, God Awakening and God DF mastery in general.

Zoro's needs GoD CoA and God Sword Skill.

I'm still on the fence about Zoro actually getting to beat Mihawk in the end, since I lowkey believe that theory that someone gonna get to Mihawk before Zoro and Zoro fighting that person before him.

Why? Because Oda pretty much showed us (again assuming Mihawk had a black blade even back then) that you dont actually need a Black Blade to rival Mihawk. Because Shanks did it before and based on the VC Vista can rival him too. If Zoro gonna truly surpass all swordsman, he need someone to fight that you cant rival or beat without a black blade. Because at the rate things are going Zoro finna be already stronger than Mihawk by the time the fighting time comes around.

(Speculation of course, but again at the rate things are going lol)
We dont know when he made yoru black tho
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#92
The title will be truly absolute for Zoro when he obtains it. Its not absolute for Mihawk currently.

People being able to surpass Zoro EOS are gonna be rare as fuck. **** probably gonna get 3 black blades.

While even a couple years ago (Assuming Mihawk had a black blade when they fought) Shanks could rival Mihawk without a black blade himself. Do you see ***** outflexing or matching Zoro's skill when he's the greatest swordsman ever? Do you the shit that happened in MF to Mihawk happening with EoS Zoro? Because I dont lol. He's the protagonist, so he's destined to be sword jesus. This is what Oda been building up to
Well we know that Mihawk was introduced as WSS whilst Shanks was a yonko so we can't logically believe anything different than he still is WSS in that no sensitive change was noticed in this temporal arc. Just like we can't assume title referred to the past.

Even if someone is still skeptical about this notion then we can also think how Zoro will fight Mihawk and not Shanks for a precise reason.
 
#93
We dont know when he made yoru black tho
Then we cant really say he didnt have it back then without a contradiction from Oda through either a flashback or SBS.

We just gotta accept the reality bro. Now that our boys Zoro and Luffy climbing up the strength ladder, top tiers just not looking like they shit anymore compared to when he was weak.

Just look at the clash WB and Roger had using pure Haki. Luffy and Zoro bout to be stronger than that fam
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#94
Then we cant really say he didnt have it back then without a contradiction from Oda through either a flashback or SBS.

We just gotta accept the reality bro. Now that our boys Zoro and Luffy climbing up the strength ladder, top tiers just not looking like they shit anymore compared to when he was weak.

Just look at the clash WB and Roger had using pure Haki. Luffy and Zoro bout to be stronger than that fam
And sanji ?...
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#98
Why wasn't he WSM? Who was stronger than him?
Also, "ask Oda"? Really? My boy, you should realize if you have to give a half assed answer like that then your entire argument is likely flawed.
Because WB held WSM title during Roger's life.
Yes, ask Oda. Unless you have a swordsman above Roger during that era that you can point a finger at?
If Zoro was indeed miles ahead of Killer, he would have been trashed instantly. Just like Mihawk did to Mr 1 lmao.
He literally ended him with first named move he used...
 
#99
He literally ended him with first named move he used...

Lol, Zoro literally looking the other way, and defending himself from that side, and goofing around.


*REAL* Swordsman was never mentioned in the manga like ever, not once.

Of course not, as that would only come up in a debate like this. However it is true by definition about Mihawk that he's the purest type of swordsman, as that is all his fighting is about. It is sort of a "fact" or observation about him. This doesn't mean there can't be other types of swordsman.

But boy, this thread is confusing.

I think there can be no doubt that one has to distinguish different types or degrees of sword fighters and that at a certain point it makes little sense to compare them directly anymore. It is just a matter of semantics of where one draws the line of "relying on a sword".

(Wanted to make this shorter, but whatever:)
Maybe one doesn't even have to say they are weaker without a sword (which applies standardly in certain situations), but have not many other properties they rely on that don't directly feed into or serve their sword ability. For example, one could weaken Big Mom to some extent by taking away her sword, but I think she would still have all the properties of being a "Yonko", and could compete physically and otherwise with them as a brawler. And anyone below that level would have roughly the same trouble of seriously taking her down (and her sword didn't seem to make her attacks stronger at all, except do serve as a tool against Kaido's club). Whether a swordsman could represent themselves like that or not, they would never bother about being about that, whereas a Yonko like Big Mom is about being a "full package" of things. It is similar for someone like Rayleigh, probably. In turn, those who can use a sword but are not "swordsmen", aside from fighting with completely other means than swords at least 50% of the time, don't focus on special feats with their swords.

However, it might be possible that they could and so switch around competing with the WSS and being a "Yonko", like Shanks.

I have already commented on Law, which was one of OP's main points. Simply put, his depiction is wrong, and Law uses his sword both in defense and attack all the time, basically as main attack, and combines his DF with it for special slashes. It is nonsense to not allow for different types and degrees, when they simply exist, and so Oda calls Law a swordsman, but that doesn't make everyone a "swordsman" who occasionally uses a sword either.
 
Last edited:
Because WB held WSM title during Roger's life.
You're helping my argument here. If Whitebeard, who was either equal to or slightly weaker than Roger, held the title of world's strongest man while Roger was alive, then doesn't this mean we shouldn't use these titles as be all end all?
Yes, ask Oda. Unless you have a swordsman above Roger during that era that you can point a finger at?
You can't say "Ask the author" when a question that completely contradicts your entire argument is brought up
You might as well be conceding:cantseeme:
Whitebeard was neck and neck with Roger.

Roger couldn't be WSM if there is someone who is his equal, I could be wrong but I believe Whitebeard earned the title WSM after Rogers death.
According to some people supporting your argument, Whitebeard held the title even when Roger was alive.:feelsokeman:

Can we get a fact check on this btw? Did Whitebeard get the title after Roger's death or before?
 
Top