General & Others The Two Years of Illusion - Time Skip Difference

How many tiers are in between pre-TS Zoro and post-TS Zoro?


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#21
?
Do you think the Crying 6 can defeat any of the pre-TS villians?
The Crocodile who got beaten and outclassed in CQC by pre-gears Luffy?

The Enel who, for all his firepower, couldn't even react to pre-gears Luffy many times despite insane CoO?

The Cp9 members who got beaten by EL SH crew fair and square?

Or the Oars that was so strong that TB Zoro and Sanji were deflecting his attacks- including stretching Bazooka?

Man, I understand the hype but all these characters did fuck all. They were portrayed as incredibly weak when Luffy went from not being able to defeat Pacifista preskip to one-shotting them with his weakest attack casually.

And then Luffy in G2/G3 had tough time with a fodder like old Cchinjao.

So, tl;dr yeah F6 destroy these fodders of villains in preskip
 

Dickie D. Dick

SII - Sakazuki Incinerate Imu
#22
The Crocodile who got beaten and outclassed in CQC by pre-gears Luffy?

The Enel who, for all his firepower, couldn't even react to pre-gears Luffy many times despite insane CoO?

The Cp9 members who got beaten by EL SH crew fair and square?

Or the Oars that was so strong that TB Zoro and Sanji were deflecting his attacks- including stretching Bazooka?

Man, I understand the hype but all these characters did fuck all. They were portrayed as incredibly weak when Luffy went from not being able to defeat Pacifista preskip to one-shotting them with his weakest attack casually.

And then Luffy in G2/G3 had tough time with a fodder like old Cchinjao.

So, tl;dr yeah F6 destroy these fodders of villains in preskip
:okay:
Also how Chinijao a fodder? He used to be legendary pirate with 5 million bounty he might've got old but a fodder?
 
#23
:okay:
Also how Chinijao a fodder? He used to be legendary pirate with 5 million bounty he might've got old but a fodder?
He's a fodder because he was mid diff'd... if not low-diffd by some dude who wasn't even top executive in Doffy family.

On an unrelated note, since you mentioned prime, I get the Garp hype... but if a "legendary Pirate captain" in his prime had a bounty of 500m that's pretty pathetic LOL. Most non captain vet Pirates in NW run around with 300-700.

Though I guess he has some decent statement from Garp to make up for that
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#24
The Crocodile who got beaten and outclassed in CQC by pre-gears Luffy?

The Enel who, for all his firepower, couldn't even react to pre-gears Luffy many times despite insane CoO?

The Cp9 members who got beaten by EL SH crew fair and square?

Or the Oars that was so strong that TB Zoro and Sanji were deflecting his attacks- including stretching Bazooka?

Man, I understand the hype but all these characters did fuck all. They were portrayed as incredibly weak when Luffy went from not being able to defeat Pacifista preskip to one-shotting them with his weakest attack casually.

And then Luffy in G2/G3 had tough time with a fodder like old Cchinjao.

So, tl;dr yeah F6 destroy these fodders of villains in preskip
Let's start with something that you wont believe - Luffy and Zoro were far stronger in pre-TS than people realize.
They were made to look weak against a Pacifista, who is heavily modified and tough, which doesnt apply to others.
If I had to guess where pre-TS Luffy and Zoro stand, I would say that Luffy is at the top of so-called veteran tier while Zoro is in YC tier.
Sounds crazy? I know but go with it, for now. That automatically raises the level of all the pre-TS people they fought, where it should be.

Crocodile wasnt outclassed, he killed Luffy 2 times, had his DF made useless because he could no longer turn into sand. Gomu no Storm is very powerful, gears or no gears. Of course, plot helped that Luffy wins but that is common for Luffy... That same Crocodile is showing his true performance in Marineford, looks much better because he isnt facing the MC against who he has to lose.

Enel's firepower was simply countered naturally, Luffy did nothing for it, he just happened to have the right DF. He could react to Luffy but he was stunned that his powers arent working and due to shock his Observation went poof... The golden arm is more powerful than G3 and it pressed Enel against the golden bell into a sandwich. Despite all of that, Enel was still on his legs and went to the moon.

Cp9 members are stronger than the current Toppi Robbo that we are seeing. Lucci for sure is stronger than WsW and I would definitely include post-DF Kaku as well. Both of them are in YC tier, WG's best assassins arent fodder, simple as that. Now it makes more sense that Luffy is among best Veterans and Zoro in the YC tier, after you realize that CP9 were also YCs...

Oars is still that strong, Zoro and Sanji cannot stop his attacks in their tracks now either, they can only deflect them, which is what they did in pre-TS too. Only Nightmare Luffy can stop attacks from Oars because NML is physically the strongest character by FAR.

Pacifista looked tough but Luffy and Zoro would have defeated it, each, eventually. Other characters dont have the same reinforcements as Pacifistas. Chinjao isnt fodder tho, he is a leader of Happo Navy for who prime Garp had to train to beat him and falls somewhere in high YC tier in his prime, low YC tier in his old age. His Dragon Drill still shines.

No, F6 get destroyed by those pre-TS villains, the strength relation between WsW and Lucci is confirmation for that, Lucci is the stronger of the two and he was defeated by G2 Luffy which means that WsW would have been defeated by G2 Luffy as well.
However, it is very bad to observe things based on Luffy, he is an anomaly. The plot turns heaven and earth so people lose against him.
 
#25
However, it is very bad to observe things based on Luffy, he is an anomaly. The plot turns heaven and earth so people lose against him.
Yeah, and the effectively nullifies most of arguments made, specifically around Enel and Croc.

But, no. If your AP is going from not being able to defeat Pacifista with your strongest attack on your own to one-shotting it casually casually with your weakest attack, you've jumped many, many tiers. Don't even need to get into too much detail over it

Same applies to Zoro and Sanji, too. Sanji used a no name DJ kick while Zoro used a casual santoryuu slash.

You say that still can't stop Oars but that sounds absurd. Going off of AP increase alone they'll breathe and Oars dies lol
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#26
Yeah, and the effectively nullifies most of arguments made, specifically around Enel and Croc.

But, no. If your AP is going from not being able to defeat Pacifista with your strongest attack on your own to one-shotting it casually casually with your weakest attack, you've jumped many, many tiers. Don't even need to get into too much detail over it

Same applies to Zoro and Sanji, too. Sanji used a no name DJ kick while Zoro used a casual santoryuu slash.

You say that still can't stop Oars but that sounds absurd. Going off of AP increase alone they'll breathe and Oars dies lol
Take Pacifistas out of the equation and observe. Pacifistas is where Oda decided to flex and created an illusion while in pre-TS he decided to use Pacifistas as a wall that SHs have an issue with... He one-shots a special alloy reinforced Pacifista and proceeds to almost die trying to beat down Hody Jones who isnt as tough as Pacifista... Oda always is flexing on robots and objects(something that can die/be destroyed), they create a wrong picture.
 
#28
Take Pacifistas out of the equation and observe. Pacifistas is where Oda decided to flex and created an illusion while in pre-TS he decided to use Pacifistas as a wall that SHs have an issue with... He one-shots a special alloy reinforced Pacifista and proceeds to almost die trying to beat down Hody Jones who isnt as tough as Pacifista... Oda always is flexing on robots and objects(something that can die/be destroyed), they create a wrong picture.
Pacifista are literally the perfect comparison because we've seen SH fight them both pre-skip and post-skip.

Things like "kaku strong. Lucci strong cuz Cp9" are pure speculation without comparison because we've seen them do nothing outside of SH fight.

So the only real and factual comparison we have between in preskip and postskip that isn't headcanon or speculation is Pacifista comparison. Anything else is a loophole of opinion.

Can't ignore literally the only thing that's legit lol. SH ap skyrocketed throughout timeskip.

I mean Luffy and Zoro going from "RUN PACIFISTA" to "FIGHT ME, ADMIRAL!" alone should be enough to show growth
 
#29
2-3

The fact is: One Piece is story driven manga

Crocodile as a Warlord will always be relevant in strength and he is YC1 right now possibly above

If Moria is alive he is YC1 or YC2 right now

Lucci was hyped worldwide before the timeskip, by new world people and all.

Accept it. The movies are a good example. Witness Post Ennies Lobby Luffy beat Shiki the Golden Lion in all it’s glory

or beggining of timeskip Luffy beat an admiral
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#30
Pacifista are literally the perfect comparison because we've seen SH fight them both pre-skip and post-skip.

Things like "kaku strong. Lucci strong cuz Cp9" are pure speculation without comparison because we've seen them do nothing outside of SH fight.

So the only real and factual comparison we have between in preskip and postskip that isn't headcanon or speculation is Pacifista comparison. Anything else is a loophole of opinion.

Can't ignore literally the only thing that's legit lol. SH ap skyrocketed throughout timeskip.

I mean Luffy and Zoro going from "RUN PACIFISTA" to "FIGHT ME, ADMIRAL!" alone should be enough to show growth
Pacifistas are not good example since they are expendable machines that Oda uses for hype...
I just explained that Hody Jones doesnt have a tougher body than Pacifistas and yet, is harder to beat.
Cipher Pol agents are the best example - current Who's Who is weaker than Lucci from Enies Lobby.

Considering that WsW is between Veteran and YC tier, pre-TS Lucci is YC tier, exactly where he is today as well. WsW from current time line and WsW from two years ago are the same guy, he wasnt magically improved during 2 years... He was always slightly below Lucci.
The government wont use fodders for their best assassins, that's why Kaku and Lucci are still relevant. They were YC tier in pre-TS...
 
#31
Sorry Nik l will eventually work my way through an opinion centered around your post but:

1. Oda doesn't conform to a typical shonen mold. This will automatically fuck anyone up if they try to come up with a power level scheme.

2. Contrary to what was said at Amazon Lily, Haki =/= strength. There are plenty of Haki users who would get knocked out by Franky for example.

3. Magellan is very underrated
 
#39
As much as Luffy grew vs Doffy and vs Cracker? Aka he didnt? :feelsokeman:
Those two are not the same and you know it.

- Akainu defeated Aokiji and became FA. He simply didn't win a fight. It was a clash of ideologies that Akainu won, his will of upholding absolute justice became stronger than ever symbolized by moving New MF to the new world.

The entire thing about the Navy is that rn they're the strongest they've ever been.

I agree that in most cases characters didn't grow during the TS but there are specific cases where it isn't the case and Akainu+BB are two of them.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#40
Those two are not the same and you know it.

- Akainu defeated Aokiji and became FA. He simply didn't win a fight. It was a clash of ideologies that Akainu won, his will of upholding absolute justice became stronger than ever symbolized by moving New MF to the new world.

The entire thing about the Navy is that rn they're the strongest they've ever been.

I agree that in most cases characters didn't grow during the TS but there are specific cases where it isn't the case and Akainu+BB are two of them.
I think both Blackbeard and Akainu are more or less the same they were in pre-TS.
What could have Akainu gained from beating Aokiji? His haki bloomed? He already had all the haki he will ever have...
 
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