Powers & Abilities The underrated battle: Hawkins vs Killer

Bogard

You let him chain your heart too?
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#1
As the title says, i decided to focus this topic on this underrated battle both in terms of manga perspective or readers. But i think this battle could potentially be one of the highlights of Onigashima, and i'd explain why by going through their respective abilities

Hawkins' abilities

Tarrot card

Hawkins showed the ability to predict outcomes thanks to his cards, ranging as followed

- Percentage of defeat in battle
- Percentage of success in fleeing
- Percentage of avoidance in defense
- Percentage of survival


And according to the manga and Oda, it's Hawkins' forego in battles and even in life. He takes them very seriously to the point he'd avoid killing people if it's an unlucky signal for him or wear a miniskirt if it was his lucky item of the day


An aspect of himself which i believe to be underrated by many readers. He only follows what his fortune telling tells him to do(in lucky or unlucky moments) because he fully believe in them

Now when it comes to battle, Hawkins was ready to face 2 members of his fellow worst generation right after reading the cards announcing their chance of survival in the month to be 19percent

This is an example of Hawkins deciding to fight a battle impossible for him to win(or at least theoritically) simply because his fortune telling allowed him to know his opponents had lower chance of survival in a month. Another example being the Kizaru case above, an admiral level opponent against his preskip version, but because his percentage of death was 0 percent, eventhough he had 100percent chance of defeat, he decided to fight anyway, fully believing in his cards predicting his survival


And powerwise, he was called troublesome by Zoro

And while only using a good card, Zoro(a physical powerhouse) was shaking at the impact of his doll's physical power, injuring him in the process with the nails



When according to Hawkins, although risky(since he can pick a bad card before a good round), there are cards that allows to increase one's power beyond natural limits

And thus considering we only saw one of his good cards, it's safe to assume, he has stronger cards than that, and even ultimate ones

Add to this, his ultimate defense as long as he has dolls(a maximum of 10 ones) not allowing any attack to reach him as long as the target isn't killed, targets themselves who could be anywhere like we've seen in Sabaody




And he could quickly become troublesome to fight in the long run

Beyond this, he possess a monster form, he used as a last ressort against Kizaru, that we didn't see until the battle with Killer


So when looking at Hawkins' performance against Zoro with Luffy around the corner, his potential stronger and ultimate cards, his ultimate defense with a maximum of 10 dolls(located anywhere), as well as his monster form, it could be possible that at max potential, he could stack up to commander level fighters

-------------

Killer's abilities

> As Kamazo, while using random scythes, Killer showed the ability to match-up to Zoro when he was using 2 swords in a long, serious and intense fight, with multiple panels showing sounds of their blades clashing, environment shaking from afar, in a long timeframe judging by the change in environment from panels to panels




And as confirmed by Killer himself, he is stronger with his punisher blades

Hence why he only started using named attacks when he got his punisher blades back

Furthermore, during the battle against Kaido, we could draw another comparison between him and the scabbards
Dragon Kaido's wind attack vs scabbards

Kiku's arm destroyed, Denjiro unable to perceive / react to the wind until noticing part of the rock getting sliced and wondering if the slashes are invisible

Dragon Kaido's wind attack(named) vs Killer

Killer perceives, dodges / counter them without any issues


Denjiro(one of the strongest scabbards if not the strongest) was startled by them. Killer was swatting them away like flies

And in terms of endurance, he could quickly recover after tanking Big Mom's thunder attack(Indra)

When as a comparison, someone like Judge was one shotted

Beyond this, an underrated aspect of Killer's abilities imo is his assassin's skills. His name is "Killer", took the job of assassin under Orochi, as Kamazo the manslayer/killer


Because of his skills as an assassin, it allows him to know how to target vitals. One of his named attacks is even "Beheading claws"

Moment where he target Kaido's head directly

He could also knock out Zoro with his scythe, showing once again his great lethality, even without his punisher blades

And thus when taking into consideration the rotative aspect of his punisher blades, he could even be more lethal than this(Zoro might have lost his limb in a similar circumstance)

Furthermore, again with his punisher blade, he showed another one of his attacks, which allows him to affect the opponent from the inside(like gamma knife) while covering a large area as after-effect with the lethality of his punisher blades



Overall then, between Hawkins' monster form, magical cards potential, ultimate defense and Killer's great fighting prowess, intelligence, and assassination skills, we could have a great battle. Just up to Oda to deliver


Hope you enjoyed reading :optimistic:
 
#3
Great read Bogard, your threads are always interesting and well written.
You said it right: this is an underrated battle, full of personal background and symbolism... and you basically wrote my thoughts down cause I agree on all the line.

Just one thing I have to point out:
his ultimate defense as long as he has dolls(a maximum of 10 ones)
Are we sure about this? Maybe I missed it, but I think that Hawkins with the necessary prep can gain an even higher number of lives
 
#5
Other than the issue what I have with named attacks everything else seems to be solid.
As Kamazo, while using random scythes, Killer showed the ability to match-up to Zoro when he was using 2 swords in a long, serious and intense fight, with multiple panels showing sounds of their blades clashing, environment shaking from afar, in a long timeframe judging by the change in environment from panels to panels

I wanted to know about how good is killer's observation to be able to see invisible slashes not only to defend but also to evade as well whereas none of the other scabbards can't perceive them?
Post automatically merged:

I doubt we will see anything more than the conclusion of the fight. Ultimately Hawkins will be proven wrong because being overly reliant on fortune telling and playing it safe is against what One Piece is usually about
I hope not I really want to see more of killer's techniques while he's still in this arc because who knows if we ever see him again or not.
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
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#6
I hope Oda introduces us all their powers better. I don't think both likely went all out yet and I would be heavily disappointed if all Hawkins could do was statistically predicting the odds in order to come up with magnificent strategies if then his AP and other stats still lacked extensively.
 
#7
Nice thread, I agree with what you said. Hawkins might be a normal headliner, but that's because he still has to display his limit-breaker cards who'll put him on an high level, I don't think he will reach Queen and King's level of strength, but he'll be ≥ Tobi Roppo in my opinion.
 
#8
@Bogard
I'm connecting my post from before (when I said that Hawkins could have more than 10 lives at the same time) to a thought I had... seen again this panel you posted:
What if Hawkins has in himself a large portion of lives of the Beast Pirates (something that he could've done during his absence since the start of the raid to his meeting with Killer, without Kaido's approval) and so Killer's role is to remove a large portion of the enemy forces? While Killer cuts down Hawkins lives, we could see Beast Pirates falling down in different floors/towers of Onigashima just like we saw pirates falling down in different groves at the Sabaody Archipelago. Possibly with the CP0 noting it and being alarmed by the fast number reduction.
At the end of the day, this is still a battle of numbers...
Basically, Killer's victory would result in the decimation of the enemy forces and keeping the balance-of-numbers theme we've been following up to now.
Just a thought which came in my mind... what do you think?
:bamathink:
 

Pantheos

Heavy Metal
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#15
While Killer surely shouldn’t have a problem to cut down Hawkins, it makes it difficult to now know how often he has to do it, specially considering if he can’t use that dolls otherwise too.

But I am looking forward to see the fight, I could
Imagine the win evolves around the specific usability of Hawkins power. I asked myself many times, are the predictions „all known“ or are they based on the infos Hawkins directly has?

Maybe (!) his predictions are based on the information Hawkins has. And maybe he has a doll of killer, back then from their alliance. So it could be Hawkins is considering this an easy win cause he can let killer kill himself. But we know killer is pretty smart, he could have arranged something else, like this being secretly a doll about Hawkins himself. So Hawkins would only take his knowledge of him having a killer doll in prediction, while the reality is different.

So, this is a very important detail about his power which I would need to evaluate his power and the worth of his predictions.
 
#17
Fantastic thread, you really nailed it! This is one of the fights on Onigashima I'm very interested in, because (as you said) it's not about physical strength, but using the brain and making tactical moves to strike first. Hopefully, Oda won't offscreen it, even though Hawkins and Killer final fights should be against Big Mom, alongside the other two WGs.
IMO we'll get a bunch of panels showing some new tarot cards and uses of the Wara-Wara no mi, as well as new scythe-moves from Killer (hopefully unmasked). Hawkins will use his trump card during the fight with a Yonko, to boost up Kid, Law, Killer and himself against BM.
Regarding the "limit of 10 dolls", it was never stated that there's this kind of limit of recollecting lives within Hawkins' body. However, back in Sabaody he said it was reckless to go against an Admiral with just ten dolls, while in Wano he explained that if he holds 10 lives, he can die 10 times. So there might be a limit, otherwise it'd be too OP. Can't wait for this fight :finally:
 
#18
we all saw killer feats > Queens best feats against BM.
and hawkings might be using his awaking form which didn't use against zoro,law. also law fought with hawkings without hostages (simply hawkings didnt used DF ability)

also, i think killer major opponent is not hawkings. it's just keep him off just like oda keep zoro off by breaking bones.

the biggest fight yet to come they might be join hands again there is lot of BM Pirates too.
 
#19
Ah hawkins

once upon a time he was highlighted as one of the top 5 supernovas

now he got low diff by law off screen
Didn’t participate in the roof battle
And is going to fall to a henchman

:josad:
But wasn't law also part of the top 5 supernovas along with x-drake, Luffy, kidd, and Hawkins? Didn't x-drake himself not help law escape from prison? It was most likely an ambush.
 
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