General & Others They might not solo YC1/2 this arc

[KiriNigiri]

So how does toki know shinobu wanted to be a vassal and how will toki know izo may come back 20 years later? Again she isn't a prophet.

Again, she was working under the assumption all the vassals were loyal to Oden and would show up in 20 years. While we are at it, aren't you going against your point? If Toki's not a prophet, then she wouldn't have the foresight of who the WG are. Nor would her words even allude to them.

That doesn't stop him from be redeemed though.Apoo is a cunning foe and most likely not loyal to kaido.
At the first sign of beast pirates being toppled,i think he definitely betrays them.

There's nothing to suggest he will be redeemed, though. You're expecting a lot from Apoo, who's played such a minuscule role during this arc.

Yeah for pirate king, not for the supernovas to be big shots at Eos.They are the beacons of power for the next generation but under teach and luffy though.

Again, if the idea is for the Supernova to all be big shots, why exempt some of them, then? Bonney has no means to make herself a bigger name, atm. Urouge is nowhere to be seen, and I can't believe I neglected him, but Bege played a prominent role during WCI, but he was written off as just a subordinate of Luffy's. His bounty raise was paltry compared to Luffy's. Why would the Supernova on Wano be any different? Especially since Luffy is now more notorious than them compared to Bege and Luffy who were comparable during WCI?

 

[sanjikun]

Yonko Commanders are overrated as fuck. There is nothing to debate here. If Dressrosa Luffy faced Jack for example, Jack would have been ragdolled. The only decent YC so far was Katakuri, and he's clearly above all the other commanders. He was undefeated with CoC and Top Tier CoO. Cracker was a gag fight that was beaten < 3 chapters panel time.

Look at Jinbe in water vs. Big Mom, and Queen vs. Big Mom. Jinbe >>>> Queen, and RS Sanji should be around Jinbe's level.

If Ashura Doji can do this to Jack, then the guy who has Oden's sword should at the very least solo King:

 

[uyuu]

imo Zoro and Sanji would eventually solo Yonkou Commanders, and now is the exact perfect time for it. Especially with Enma for Zoro and RS for Sanji, it is very plausible for both of them to beat a Commander each.

...But consequently, if now is the time they should reach Commander's level (YC1 and YC2), meaning it is really the time for Luffy to legit reach an Emperor level by himself. And that is the real issue here imo, because imo even Oda himself may think that he need to prolong the period of Luffy being an underdog. We should have no prob with Zoro finally reaching YC1 or Sanji being YC2 since it's the required level for them especially starting from now, but are the fans ready for Luffy being a legit Emperor?

... i myself really am excited to see it as a payoff for Luffy being an underdog in every major fight though.

 

[bennbeckman]

Probably how King and Queens personalities are their fights are most likely pointed towards them (Zoro and Sanji). Also why Sanji got the raid suit because Sanji's normal form is not strong enough, Similar how Luffy needed G4 to really power up.
I also see Law vs Smoothie and Kid vs Big Mom

I think Sanji will go against Drake at some point, that's just my opinion

Zoro is Definitely YC level, also his potrayal is very similar to Rayleigh, from being a swordsman, to RH man, which everyone else views Zoro as Vice Captain (Barto, Urogue, etc) also has scars on eye and chest, was also approached to join first by pirate king and refused at first, but with the exception of Conquerors Haki, Which is still unknown for Zoro even though his Aura intimidates weaker foes

 

[Bil02]

Again, she was working under the assumption all the vassals were loyal to Oden and would show up in 20 years. While we are at it, aren't you going against your point? If Toki's not a prophet, then she wouldn't have the foresight of who the WG are. Nor would her words even allude to them.

You seem not to understand my point.
Toki doesn't have prophet powers nor can she see the future,so she just talks about what is certain will happen .And what she knows will happen is what oden told her about and that is a king will be born in 20years and he along with other people (supernova imo) will liberate wano.
Toki only trusted oden's words as she knew what he said will become true, and that's my point when i say she isn't a prophet as she couldn't know all the scabbards will be alive 20 years later unlike the people oden talked about.

There's nothing to suggest he will be redeemed, though. You're expecting a lot from Apoo, who's played such a minuscule role during this arc

Again you seem to Bury apoo before we get to know what happened with him.I have no particular expectations from him nor do i like apoo particularly but you thinking he will come out of this arc looking badly or not redeemed is you burying him already as i'm sure Oda will do something about him, that's oda's Style.

Again, if the idea is for the Supernova to all be big shots, why exempt some of them, then? Bonney has no means to make herself a bigger name, atm. Urouge is nowhere to be seen, and I can't believe I neglected him, but Bege played a prominent role during WCI, but he was written off as just a subordinate of Luffy's. His bounty raise was paltry compared to Luffy's. Why would the Supernova on Wano be any different? Especially since Luffy is now more notorious than them compared to Bege and Luffy who were comparable during WCI?

Again you don't seem to understand what i mean.
Look at the 5 silhouettes from rocks who were said to be beacons of power for the next generation :we had wb,kaido,linlin,shiki and capitain John.Yet we've never Heard capitain John rivaled roger or anything,meaning you can become a Big shot without rivaling the pk in accomplissements.Unless you are telling me the narrator was lying when he said those 5 will be beacons of power for the next generation in oden's flashback ?
The 9 supernovas putting down kaido will come out as those with the best portrayal Come Eos with Luffy and teach being pk contenders .
I never said Bege and and bonney wouldn't be Big shots at Eos,just that their portrayal will be below the other 9 as they aren't involved in this arc whose war is going to shake the World to its very core according to the narrator in chapter 955.
Urouge has chances to Come as he was involved with kaido in his introduction and seeing how Oda doesn't put characters at places for nothing,then i think urouge will come.
This was my last reply in this matter,please if you don't agree then you can reply and we agree to disagree on this matter.
I am already tired of running circles in our arguments.

 

[Bil02]

Yonko Commanders are overrated as fuck. There is nothing to debate here. If Dressrosa Luffy faced Jack for example, Jack would have been ragdolled. The only decent YC so far was Katakuri, and he's clearly above all the other commanders. He was undefeated with CoC and Top Tier CoO. Cracker was a gag fight that was beaten < 3 chapters panel time.

Look at Jinbe in water vs. Big Mom, and Queen vs. Big Mom. Jinbe >>>> Queen, and RS Sanji should be around Jinbe's level.

If Ashura Doji can do this to Jack, then the guy who has Oden's sword should at the very least solo King:

Lol if you go by this logic,then jinbei is even stronger than luffy and by extension katakuri as jinbei was able to actually fight off Big mom unlike katakuri who said his mother couldn't be stopped by all her children in that state.
We also have smoothie running away from Big mom and luffy being one shotted alongside hyogoro in udon by a weaker version of the Big mom jinbei stalled for sometime.
Not that the notion of jinbei being stronger than each of them disturbs me lol but i'm sure you are never going to agree with that lmfao.

 

[Bil02]

Who knows,maybe that's why jinbei didn't join the strawhats immediately lol as he may had being stronger than his capitain luffy which wouldn't be accepted by the majority of one piece fandom.
Not that i necessarily beleive that but jinbei's feats against skinny Big mom is better than kata's feats against Luffy and also better than luffy's and hyogoro's feats against a weaker version of Big mom in udon (amnesiac and hakiless).

 

[Vlad D. Impaler]

I don't think that after Wano they'll be fighting any other Yonko accept BB, and imo by the time they face BB's crew, his YCs will be a lot stronger than Kata, King, Queen etc..

 

[bluefire12]

Let's start :
Currently, Luffy is way ahead of them both, they cant close the gap ever with just enma/RS. Just cause Luffy is now facing Yonko doesnt mean they need to solo YC1/2 this arc.

Zoro & sanji arent Rayleigh/Oden, people should start accepting this.
BM despite being clearly above Katakuri, yet needs to remind Kata his place.
Can you imagine WB feeling threatened by Wano/elbaf Zoro/Sanji presence as young Oden? Never!
There is a reason why Ray is linked to Luffy and trained him not Zoro/Sanji.

"But Zoro clashed fuji a bit/Sanji blocked BM" yeah even Rakuyo clashed Kizaru and wasn't Koed. Killer also fought kaido till he collapsed yet he never impressed Kaido like Kidd did.
A veteran can also stall/clash a top tier for some short time

Zoro & Sanji might not even fight King and queen this arc.
Oda doesnt care much about who their fight as long as Luffy grows to be solid top tier, the rest can catch up to be YC in later arcs. This is the dude that keeps feeding Luffy fights and haki training while giving the others meh fights

Do you think any of them will seriously solo YC1/2 this arc? If so, then who will they fight if Luffy ever fight BM after wano? YCs? Then vs BB? YCs again? So for 2/3 arcs they'll be only fighting YCs as main opponents?
you guys expecting Zoro Sanji have YCs as main opponents in 2/3 arcs... what's the point there even, doesn't it sound boring.

Will Zoro & Sanji fight a YC level dudes this arc ? Yes but Zoro finale wont be King, Sanji wont be Queen.
I'm not ashamed if I'm proven wrong in the future. (Kyoushiro being Zoro opponent already failed)

@Buusatan94 @playa4321 @Inflamed Haki @True God Moe @MonsterZoro @Shura @Bogard @Jiihad @TheAncientCenturion

What do you think about it now after this chapter?

 

[Drachenblut]

They will solo them. People focus too much on a clash. Apoo is noz stronger than zoro, he himself said, if they take too much damage here, they won't win against kaido (+ the calamities). And he said that NOT ONLY kaido is strong but also his men. Which means, the numbers matter. The strawhats need MORE ALLIES.
Either the grand fleet, wb remnants, shanks + crew, dragon + revos or even the marines. Doesn't matter, but they need allies. Bm + kaido have tooo many decently strong characters, while the strawhats have too little allies right now.

So most probably the grand fleet + some wb remnants will come against bm+kaido, afterwards many other people might come too (like in marineford with shanks)