General & Others Tobi Roppo are the main opponents of the 6 weaker SHs
- Thread starter Shiroyru
- Start date
- Tags franky low diffs all six
The problem with the weaker Straw Hats fighting common Headliners is very simple: Tama.
If Oda had done a proper work with the Beast Pirates and created Headliners with natural, normal zoans I would certainly see some match ups. Heck, I was dying for an Usopp versus chameleon zoan but right now I see it an impossible. But it looks like virtually every Headliner bar Hawkins and probably Apoo are gifters and there's no hype nor threat on them because we know that Tama can easily tame them and we should expect Oda to make some good use of this power in the upcoming events.
So the Tobi Roppo come up as a fitting replacement for all of those missed adversaries that Oda chose to waste on gifters.
If Oda had done a proper work with the Beast Pirates and created Headliners with natural, normal zoans I would certainly see some match ups. Heck, I was dying for an Usopp versus chameleon zoan but right now I see it an impossible. But it looks like virtually every Headliner bar Hawkins and probably Apoo are gifters and there's no hype nor threat on them because we know that Tama can easily tame them and we should expect Oda to make some good use of this power in the upcoming events.
So the Tobi Roppo come up as a fitting replacement for all of those missed adversaries that Oda chose to waste on gifters.
Because they are the future Pirate King's crew.
Because Luffy can't just rely on Zoro and Jinbe (since according to Zoro fanboys, Sanji's a loser now).
Because Oda went out of his way to make them vocalize that they knew they needed to get stronger to help Luffy.
And because, as badass as they look, the Tobi Roppo aren't out of their league just because they have a Supernova in their ranks.
But sure, let's just wait for Oda to totally waste two third of the crew because they aren't supposed to be strong, I guess ?
Also, who are you proposing them to fight ? Their opponents are either just a step above fodders (Raisin, Galette...) or around the Tobi Roppo's level anyway (Baron Deloeuf, Oven, etc.). So who will they fight, if not those or fodders exactly ?
Because Luffy can't just rely on Zoro and Jinbe (since according to Zoro fanboys, Sanji's a loser now).
Because Oda went out of his way to make them vocalize that they knew they needed to get stronger to help Luffy.
And because, as badass as they look, the Tobi Roppo aren't out of their league just because they have a Supernova in their ranks.
But sure, let's just wait for Oda to totally waste two third of the crew because they aren't supposed to be strong, I guess ?
Also, who are you proposing them to fight ? Their opponents are either just a step above fodders (Raisin, Galette...) or around the Tobi Roppo's level anyway (Baron Deloeuf, Oven, etc.). So who will they fight, if not those or fodders exactly ?
I'm surprised this mindset doesn't seem to be the majority. We've been dealing with ~400 chapters worth of Wano plot essentially and are 70 chapters deep into Wano alone. People like Nami,Chopper, Brook and Robin havent gotten a proper battle/growth experience in ages.
Are we supposed to care about Nami or Chopper vs. Random Headliner or Lesser BM child? I would rather see them struggle and struggle and struggle in a brutal fight that allows them to win with new skill and powerups. This is what made Enies Lobby so good, not these characters low/mid-diffing unimportant villains in Wano. The fact that Franky isn't at all being taken seriously by this fanbase is what baffles me. Dude made himself into a Pacifista and we think he should be fighting the Decuplets or Raisin or something lmao.
Lesser BM children and Headliners will be served as warmup attacks or actual fights for Mink commander/Yakuza bosses at this point.
Are we supposed to care about Nami or Chopper vs. Random Headliner or Lesser BM child? I would rather see them struggle and struggle and struggle in a brutal fight that allows them to win with new skill and powerups. This is what made Enies Lobby so good, not these characters low/mid-diffing unimportant villains in Wano. The fact that Franky isn't at all being taken seriously by this fanbase is what baffles me. Dude made himself into a Pacifista and we think he should be fighting the Decuplets or Raisin or something lmao.
Lesser BM children and Headliners will be served as warmup attacks or actual fights for Mink commander/Yakuza bosses at this point.
You say that Galette is one step above fodder but she literally neg diffed Nami last arc. And I don't actually think that Oven was on the same level as the tobi roppo. Oven had a bounty of 300 mil, the same as Hawkins. And hawkins wasn't a tobi roppo.
Tobi roppo aren't just normal veterans. They are the elite veterans. Their big mom pirate counterparts aren't oven and daifuku. Their counterparts are rather Snack, Perospero, and Streusen.
I think you are underestimating the low tiers of a yonko crew. There is a big difference between actual fodder and people who are fodder to the monster trio. If you ask me
Tobi roppo aren't just normal veterans. They are the elite veterans. Their big mom pirate counterparts aren't oven and daifuku. Their counterparts are rather Snack, Perospero, and Streusen.
I think you are underestimating the low tiers of a yonko crew. There is a big difference between actual fodder and people who are fodder to the monster trio. If you ask me
- Usopp takes out Orochi with the help of Momonosuke and Hiyori.
- Franky and chopper fight numbers
- Robin, Nami, Carrot, and possibly shinobu as well tag team Ulti
I think its kind of unfair to say Galette "neg" diffed Nami when the chapter clearly skipped the majority of Luffy and Nami fighting fodder and at least 20 of those BM siblings were present. Galette even comments that she could make huge lightning storms. We don't know what happened before this. Plus, Galette's fruit allows her to become basically Hina without touching people, kind of besides the point.
Nobody is saying Galette is "weak. I am saying that she's irrelevant to the arc. Sure, she may have some moments, but she's not a main featured character in Wano and will be overshadowed by her more powerful siblings.
Just don't be mad of Nami gets the jump on Galette during the chaos and attacks her with Zeus, there by flipping the "neg" diff on its head lol. We don't know enough from these characters even from their own arc. They weren't the focus even there.
Listen, you could TOTALLY be right. I could entirely be wrong. I just think we don't have enough to go on. Maybe next chapter, Oda decides to spend the entire chapter reintroducing BM children and showing off how important Mont d'Or, Raisin, Amande, Cinnamon, Citron, etc are as enemy combatants too.
I think we can all agree that Wano has a TON of capable fighters, and it IS exciting to guess where its gonna go. If the headliners weren't fighting specifically Luffy, I'm sure they'd be more formidable.
Nobody is saying Galette is "weak. I am saying that she's irrelevant to the arc. Sure, she may have some moments, but she's not a main featured character in Wano and will be overshadowed by her more powerful siblings.
Just don't be mad of Nami gets the jump on Galette during the chaos and attacks her with Zeus, there by flipping the "neg" diff on its head lol. We don't know enough from these characters even from their own arc. They weren't the focus even there.
Listen, you could TOTALLY be right. I could entirely be wrong. I just think we don't have enough to go on. Maybe next chapter, Oda decides to spend the entire chapter reintroducing BM children and showing off how important Mont d'Or, Raisin, Amande, Cinnamon, Citron, etc are as enemy combatants too.
I think we can all agree that Wano has a TON of capable fighters, and it IS exciting to guess where its gonna go. If the headliners weren't fighting specifically Luffy, I'm sure they'd be more formidable.
You mean that Page One, who did zero (0) damage to Raid Suit Sanji ? Is that the guy ragdolling Sanji ?
And Orochi ? That dude hasn't even demonstrated that he knows how to use a sword and you think that having him fight Usopp, Hiyori and Momo would be great ?
I could see Usopp taking on Kanjuro (both are artists, Kanjuro helped himd eal with Sugar a second time, etc.).
And I certainly hope that neither Robin nor Carrot need a tag team to deal with anyone this arc. I mean, come on ! WHen she's serious, Robin's fruit is hax, and Carrot has demonstrated that when serious, even without Sulong, she can be a good fighter, at elast around the Mid Trio level.
And yeah, Galette in an army, with the help of Amande and countless homies and normal fodders managed to defeat Nami while commenting about how dangerous Nami's attacks were - before she got her hands on Zeus ! That's not exactly an indictment of her strength for me.
And Orochi ? That dude hasn't even demonstrated that he knows how to use a sword and you think that having him fight Usopp, Hiyori and Momo would be great ?
I could see Usopp taking on Kanjuro (both are artists, Kanjuro helped himd eal with Sugar a second time, etc.).
And I certainly hope that neither Robin nor Carrot need a tag team to deal with anyone this arc. I mean, come on ! WHen she's serious, Robin's fruit is hax, and Carrot has demonstrated that when serious, even without Sulong, she can be a good fighter, at elast around the Mid Trio level.
And yeah, Galette in an army, with the help of Amande and countless homies and normal fodders managed to defeat Nami while commenting about how dangerous Nami's attacks were - before she got her hands on Zeus ! That's not exactly an indictment of her strength for me.
What makes you think that the Tobi Roppo are all Supernova level characters ?
Each and every member of the Mid/Weak Trio has show that it has what it takes to fight very strong opponents :
Franky's very durable and has two excellent attacks (his laser and air cannon) even outside of the Franky Shogun - which considerably boost his resilience.
Robin's able to deal with super-fast characters and can create giant limbs, it should be powerful enough to hurt even Ancient Zoans users.
Brook is fast and can freeze peoples, and has shown after the timeskip that his swordmanship has improved; he was fast enough to surprise Big Mom at least twice : when he hurt Prometheus and when he sliced Zeus.
Chopper tanked a direct hit from Crazy Big Mom without looking worse to wear and while he hasn't has the chance to test the mettle of his Monster Point yet, he's still a good fighter. Plus, having him facing powerful Zoans is basically a must in this arc ! How else will he learn more about his DF otherwise ?
Nami's fragile but she has some of the most powerful attacks out there now, with Zeus, her Weatheria stuff and the one "magic wand" she still hasn't used yet from the TS.
Usopp took a direct hit from a 4t bat in the head back in Alabasta. He trained for two years, unlocked one form of Haki, has a wide range of Green Pop at his disposal, and his Skull Explosion are able to take out fighting fishes in one hit, just like the attacks of Caesar a 300 millions berries logia.
And it's not my fault that, so far, the only headliner who has shown to be worth something is Hawkins, a member of the Worst Generation.
Sure, the Tobi Roppo are the elite Headliners. But considering the level of their playmates, it isn't saying much so far...
Each and every member of the Mid/Weak Trio has show that it has what it takes to fight very strong opponents :
Franky's very durable and has two excellent attacks (his laser and air cannon) even outside of the Franky Shogun - which considerably boost his resilience.
Robin's able to deal with super-fast characters and can create giant limbs, it should be powerful enough to hurt even Ancient Zoans users.
Brook is fast and can freeze peoples, and has shown after the timeskip that his swordmanship has improved; he was fast enough to surprise Big Mom at least twice : when he hurt Prometheus and when he sliced Zeus.
Chopper tanked a direct hit from Crazy Big Mom without looking worse to wear and while he hasn't has the chance to test the mettle of his Monster Point yet, he's still a good fighter. Plus, having him facing powerful Zoans is basically a must in this arc ! How else will he learn more about his DF otherwise ?
Nami's fragile but she has some of the most powerful attacks out there now, with Zeus, her Weatheria stuff and the one "magic wand" she still hasn't used yet from the TS.
Usopp took a direct hit from a 4t bat in the head back in Alabasta. He trained for two years, unlocked one form of Haki, has a wide range of Green Pop at his disposal, and his Skull Explosion are able to take out fighting fishes in one hit, just like the attacks of Caesar a 300 millions berries logia.
And it's not my fault that, so far, the only headliner who has shown to be worth something is Hawkins, a member of the Worst Generation.
Sure, the Tobi Roppo are the elite Headliners. But considering the level of their playmates, it isn't saying much so far...
J
They are not.
Hawkins >p1 Ulti Black Maria . Dont know about Sasaki
That's a fact . Apoo is above all flyers.
Oda used Hawkins to fight Law and Zoro
P1 be Sanji hypetool
Hawkins isnt Flyer because he recently joined Kaido and he never got he chance to prove his worth by fighting Kaido or going on missions unlike Drake who had to do missions to gain trust.
Hawkins >p1 Ulti Black Maria . Dont know about Sasaki
That's a fact . Apoo is above all flyers.
Oda used Hawkins to fight Law and Zoro
P1 be Sanji hypetool
Hawkins isnt Flyer because he recently joined Kaido and he never got he chance to prove his worth by fighting Kaido or going on missions unlike Drake who had to do missions to gain trust.
"Confirmed" is a very strong word.
A random Wano citizen hyped them up as the strongest Headliners, but maybe a bit of critical thinking should be used. How on earth would random Wano citizen know the strength level of Hawkins and Apoo, who have barely been in the crew? All the years of hyping the Worst Gen and they're weaker than a guy Sanji booted around like a football? Doesn't really add up. I think it's quite clear we should be considering the Worst Gen characters differently from the rest of Kaido's crew.
Now, I don't really give a fuck about Hawkins and Apoo as characters, and if the Strawhats beating the TR puts them above them... well, they're above them. No skin off my back. But it sure as hell doesn't change the fact the TR are clearly designed to be enemies of the Strawhats this arc.
A random Wano citizen hyped them up as the strongest Headliners, but maybe a bit of critical thinking should be used. How on earth would random Wano citizen know the strength level of Hawkins and Apoo, who have barely been in the crew? All the years of hyping the Worst Gen and they're weaker than a guy Sanji booted around like a football? Doesn't really add up. I think it's quite clear we should be considering the Worst Gen characters differently from the rest of Kaido's crew.
Now, I don't really give a fuck about Hawkins and Apoo as characters, and if the Strawhats beating the TR puts them above them... well, they're above them. No skin off my back. But it sure as hell doesn't change the fact the TR are clearly designed to be enemies of the Strawhats this arc.
The Tobbi Roppo outside of Drake are all mid tiers fluctuating from low-mid tiers to High- mid tiers.
Essentialy they are like the BMP "veterans" and Donquixote executive officers(Diamante,Trebol,Pica).
The WG are above them. Urouge set the example to showcase where the Level of the WG begins. Capone shot with a mini cannonball Oven over a kilometer,while chilling and having PEz in his other hand..
WG members simply are on a different level just like how Zoro was to Pica
To continue where I left;Oda then, had Oven fight with freaking Aladin to stall for time,before Jinbe returned to help them
.
If Aladin could fight them,then there no reason for the SH not to handle them, even if they need mid-fight powerups to defeat them.
Essentialy they are like the BMP "veterans" and Donquixote executive officers(Diamante,Trebol,Pica).
The WG are above them. Urouge set the example to showcase where the Level of the WG begins. Capone shot with a mini cannonball Oven over a kilometer,while chilling and having PEz in his other hand..
WG members simply are on a different level just like how Zoro was to Pica
To continue where I left;Oda then, had Oven fight with freaking Aladin to stall for time,before Jinbe returned to help them
If Aladin could fight them,then there no reason for the SH not to handle them, even if they need mid-fight powerups to defeat them.
How?
I think everyone is just jumping the gun because the tobi roppo are the only decently strong beast pirates we have seen apart from the calamities and the beast pirate supernova.
Once we see the numbers, I think the matchups will become more clear. But if you want perspective, Sasaki was talking down to Drake and Page was portrayed as the weakest supernova. The same Page One that forced Sanji to use his raid suit.
There is nothing that suggests the mid or weak trio could 1v1 them
is it really? Where in the manga is this stated?
This means absolutely nothing.
yes but feats back up the point that they are above him. Page one, by sending RS Sanji flying through a city block like G4 vs Doflamingo, showed significantly more AP than either daifuku or Oven did in WCI.
Page is portrayed as the weakest tobi roppo and yet, he was able to keep up with RS Sanji. Mind you that Sanji's bounty is actually higher than Hawkins's.
I think everyone is just jumping the gun because the tobi roppo are the only decently strong beast pirates we have seen apart from the calamities and the beast pirate supernova.
Once we see the numbers, I think the matchups will become more clear. But if you want perspective, Sasaki was talking down to Drake and Page was portrayed as the weakest supernova. The same Page One that forced Sanji to use his raid suit.
There is nothing that suggests the mid or weak trio could 1v1 them
is it really? Where in the manga is this stated?
This means absolutely nothing.
yes but feats back up the point that they are above him. Page one, by sending RS Sanji flying through a city block like G4 vs Doflamingo, showed significantly more AP than either daifuku or Oven did in WCI.
Page is portrayed as the weakest tobi roppo and yet, he was able to keep up with RS Sanji. Mind you that Sanji's bounty is actually higher than Hawkins's.
