Chapter Discussion Wano-Kuni Rewrite: Act1,Act2,&Act3
- Thread starter BoaHancocksHusband
- Start date
Really not that hard to improve Wano significantly without changing Oda's ideas. It's all about the execution though:
Act 1:
I actually think this was decent and well paced, not much change needed.
Act 2:
Now it begins:
1) Scrap the BM amnesia nonsense entirely. This was atrocious writing.
2) Significantly shorten the Udon-prison-plot.
3) Already include Marco here (let him help Luffy free the prisoners and getting caught/taken away by Queen & Co., therefore taking BM's Wano role and giving Luffy & Co. another reason to whoop Kaido's ass).
Act 3:
This is where Oda lost the plot.
1) If you really HAVE to include BM here, just make her reach Onigashima on a normal way and then negotiate the deal with Kaido. Nothing lost this way and it saves a lot of panel time.
2) Make Jinbei return with at least some kind of scar or lost limb. His happy-go-lucky arrival with zero injuries significantly dragged down another arc ending (WCI), too.
3) Scrap all the inflitration and running up the rooftop stallfest. Just make them arrive, blast the doors open and immediaately start the royal rumble. Scabbards go for Kaido and wound him, but get knocked down after a short skirmish. Luffy, Kid & Co. arrive at the scene. Their fight immediately starts and naturally shifts towards the rooftop, when an enraged BM comes to help Kaido. No essential changes to the initial outcome/idea, but way less useless panel-time.
4) Cut the Yamato character completely - what a horrendous and simply unnecessary addition this was.
5) Cut out the ice-oni-nonsense.
6) Cut out Luffy falling into the sea. Just let him get knocked out and then let Momo in dragon form "stall" him for a few minutes, taking on Yamato's role and giving him a great character moment. Of course he wouldn't really "stall" Kaido, but he would fight for his life, while Kaido toys with him and knocks him silly, but Momo would show his character and buy time nonetheless.
7) Let Kinemon die in their initial fight against Kaido and not return him because of some asspull (quite literally) fart-gag that only 10-year olds find funny.
Those changes alone (many more could be made) wouldn't change the essence of the arc one bit, but they would SIGNIFICANTLY improve the pacing, flow and meaning of it, especially of the latter part of the arc.
Act 1:
I actually think this was decent and well paced, not much change needed.
Act 2:
Now it begins:
1) Scrap the BM amnesia nonsense entirely. This was atrocious writing.
2) Significantly shorten the Udon-prison-plot.
3) Already include Marco here (let him help Luffy free the prisoners and getting caught/taken away by Queen & Co., therefore taking BM's Wano role and giving Luffy & Co. another reason to whoop Kaido's ass).
Act 3:
This is where Oda lost the plot.
1) If you really HAVE to include BM here, just make her reach Onigashima on a normal way and then negotiate the deal with Kaido. Nothing lost this way and it saves a lot of panel time.
2) Make Jinbei return with at least some kind of scar or lost limb. His happy-go-lucky arrival with zero injuries significantly dragged down another arc ending (WCI), too.
3) Scrap all the inflitration and running up the rooftop stallfest. Just make them arrive, blast the doors open and immediaately start the royal rumble. Scabbards go for Kaido and wound him, but get knocked down after a short skirmish. Luffy, Kid & Co. arrive at the scene. Their fight immediately starts and naturally shifts towards the rooftop, when an enraged BM comes to help Kaido. No essential changes to the initial outcome/idea, but way less useless panel-time.
4) Cut the Yamato character completely - what a horrendous and simply unnecessary addition this was.
5) Cut out the ice-oni-nonsense.
6) Cut out Luffy falling into the sea. Just let him get knocked out and then let Momo in dragon form "stall" him for a few minutes, taking on Yamato's role and giving him a great character moment. Of course he wouldn't really "stall" Kaido, but he would fight for his life, while Kaido toys with him and knocks him silly, but Momo would show his character and buy time nonetheless.
7) Let Kinemon die in their initial fight against Kaido and not return him because of some asspull (quite literally) fart-gag that only 10-year olds find funny.
Those changes alone (many more could be made) wouldn't change the essence of the arc one bit, but they would SIGNIFICANTLY improve the pacing, flow and meaning of it, especially of the latter part of the arc.
Lend me some hubris Oda this is justified criticisms I'm up against.
We lost finalbeta to get someone with just as much of an obnoxious, self righteous and thus self aggradising "intellectual superior".
Goda give us strength.
We lost finalbeta to get someone with just as much of an obnoxious, self righteous and thus self aggradising "intellectual superior".
Goda give us strength.
Don't be that guy. You are the first one to shot in the round at the moment. This forum is FILLED with obnixious and self righteous comment about the way One Piece is trash... so don't take it personnal when someone with a little bit more knowledge of the craft starts to use this arrogant technique against those same arguments.
And yes, i'm not asleep yet. Bad night schedule.
I will stop (because yes, it's me we are talking about, no one is dumb) talking to people with arrogance here when I will stop seeing the same behavior of the trashers of One Piece on the forum.
If you can't take the heat, don't bring the heat. In the meantime, start developping your arguments, because all I see right now are people who think they can write a story by removing what makes the story exciting in the first place.
Again.. Wannabe bakers who don't know what purpose flour is used for..
This one for ex:
Not understanding that moments of action need narrative build up in manga and if you make Luffy arrives without that and without a moment of CLEAR impatience and expectation (you know... when the readers is sayin "GO FASTER"), you will get a lower narrative result and an ineffective series of panels.
Again that's what I'm constantly denouncing on this forum. People who want to appear as analyst and better writers than Oda, but do not understand that the reason why they like One Piece in the first place, is the result of the things they are criticizing and trying to remove.
*Facepalm*
Thus removing the character development of Momonosuke, good job.
Why ? Why do you need to see Kid's Haki when you know that Kid is amazingly strong ? What would be the point ? It's not Kid's story.
*double facepalm*
You just removed the feat of Zoro to be able to defeat a seemingly invicible opponent and a representation of demons, good job.
ffs
Thus negating the parrallel between the fight that Usopp and Nami must face Page one and Ulti together because both duo have a sibling relationship.
Pushing Chopper out of his real fight, which was the plague...
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Disappointing trolling attempt, you can do better.
We had multiple arcs before Wano that built up the fight against Kaido and even 70+ chapters of additional buildup in Wano itself before we reached Onigashima.
There was zero reason to drag out the confrontation even more. Nobody needed any more cockteasing, especially not multiple chapters of pointless running.
It was just bad pacing, plain and simple.
We had multiple arcs before Wano that built up the fight against Kaido and even 70+ chapters of additional buildup in Wano itself before we reached Onigashima.
There was zero reason to drag out the confrontation even more. Nobody needed any more cockteasing, especially not multiple chapters of pointless running.
It was just bad pacing, plain and simple.
Ahhhh, I thought you said "really hard to improve Wano without changing Oda's ideas." Which is what this does. Jinbe losing a limb, Linlin not busting up the prison, Marco showing up prematurely? There's a very thin line between preference and pacing.
Like we can almost all agree about Kinemon vs Kaido because it's both clear that he wanted to sacrifice a Scabbard and also show how completely hopeless it was for virtually anyone to stand up to Kaido. Which is why you can argue for replacing Asura with Kinemon and skipping that fake Oden bomb plot for the purpose of pacing. We all have different ways to get there but the basic idea is helpful.
Shortening the prison arc: Luffy had to learn about past and present Wano, learn a way to hurt Kaido, and win over the samurai. Queen had to be pushed aside without starting a fight. Anyone who couldn't squash him would get ambushed, anyone who couldn't pacify Kaido would get squashed.
Like we can almost all agree about Kinemon vs Kaido because it's both clear that he wanted to sacrifice a Scabbard and also show how completely hopeless it was for virtually anyone to stand up to Kaido. Which is why you can argue for replacing Asura with Kinemon and skipping that fake Oden bomb plot for the purpose of pacing. We all have different ways to get there but the basic idea is helpful.
Shortening the prison arc: Luffy had to learn about past and present Wano, learn a way to hurt Kaido, and win over the samurai. Queen had to be pushed aside without starting a fight. Anyone who couldn't squash him would get ambushed, anyone who couldn't pacify Kaido would get squashed.
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Omg this is ridiculous... I could give you a detailed analysis of 200 pages to explain you why your choices (but not only yours, the ones of others too here) are bad, you would still not understand it.
Simply because you think I'm trolling and therefore block yourself from what I'm saying.. I need sleep
Wrong.
If you do not build up narratively the fight inside the arc you will get very poor storytelling. That's one of the BASIS of One Piece. There is the build up of the arc.. and INSIDE the arc there is the build up of the fight and INSIDE the fight there is the build up for the last duel and INSIDE the last duel there is a build up for emotional liberation just after said liberation.
I say One Piece, but it's not specific to One Piece, it's a basis in every relevant stories.
There was, you are just ignoring them simply because you do not understand that their existence is PART OF the build up and the reason why those fight are shining in the first place.
To give you a basic analogy. What I'm telling you is that to build up a liberation of light, you need to build up a LARGE and everlasting moment of Darkness.
THe problem is that what you want to do here is build a liberation of light just after another liberation of light, thus completely negating the LARGE period of darkness that is necessary to create the frustration and the expectation of the liberation of light in the first place.
This is why I'm saying that you guys do not understand what you are criticizing.
The fact that you don't like One Piece is receivable. I get it, it's a particular form of narration. But to say that it is trash or compare it with previous work when this method of narration was here from the beginning, is just plain ridiculous.
Contrary to you, I do understand the storytelling of One Piece. Hence why I completely get the thing you are missing and why I'm able as an hardcore fan, to separate my expectation and values from the actual support I'm reading.
You - like many others - are confusing pacing and contextual building moments (that will usually include running, beating fodders, character interactions, developement of the situation and the settings etc.) Those are not the pacing, those are elements necessary to understand CLEARLY the story you are reading.
Each moments in Wano had its importance. Really. I'm not overexagerating here. The pacing of Wano was perfectly fine. In fact, it was a little bit too fast contrary to what you might think. But the story that was being told was so vast that this pacing was needed.
The moment you will be able to understand the nuances of One Piece inside the narration, you will be able to give lessons about its pacing and tell me that I make disapointing trolling attempt.. For the moment, this is not the case. You are the one who don't know and do not understand and I'm the one who is trying to teach you something you are blinded to.
Simply because you think I'm trolling and therefore block yourself from what I'm saying.. I need sleep
Wrong.
If you do not build up narratively the fight inside the arc you will get very poor storytelling. That's one of the BASIS of One Piece. There is the build up of the arc.. and INSIDE the arc there is the build up of the fight and INSIDE the fight there is the build up for the last duel and INSIDE the last duel there is a build up for emotional liberation just after said liberation.
I say One Piece, but it's not specific to One Piece, it's a basis in every relevant stories.
There was, you are just ignoring them simply because you do not understand that their existence is PART OF the build up and the reason why those fight are shining in the first place.
To give you a basic analogy. What I'm telling you is that to build up a liberation of light, you need to build up a LARGE and everlasting moment of Darkness.
THe problem is that what you want to do here is build a liberation of light just after another liberation of light, thus completely negating the LARGE period of darkness that is necessary to create the frustration and the expectation of the liberation of light in the first place.
This is why I'm saying that you guys do not understand what you are criticizing.
The fact that you don't like One Piece is receivable. I get it, it's a particular form of narration. But to say that it is trash or compare it with previous work when this method of narration was here from the beginning, is just plain ridiculous.
Contrary to you, I do understand the storytelling of One Piece. Hence why I completely get the thing you are missing and why I'm able as an hardcore fan, to separate my expectation and values from the actual support I'm reading.
You - like many others - are confusing pacing and contextual building moments (that will usually include running, beating fodders, character interactions, developement of the situation and the settings etc.) Those are not the pacing, those are elements necessary to understand CLEARLY the story you are reading.
Each moments in Wano had its importance. Really. I'm not overexagerating here. The pacing of Wano was perfectly fine. In fact, it was a little bit too fast contrary to what you might think. But the story that was being told was so vast that this pacing was needed.
The moment you will be able to understand the nuances of One Piece inside the narration, you will be able to give lessons about its pacing and tell me that I make disapointing trolling attempt.. For the moment, this is not the case. You are the one who don't know and do not understand and I'm the one who is trying to teach you something you are blinded to.
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Jinbei without a limb (missing an arm or having a leg replacement like Inurashi) wouldn't change anything in the story other than actually making WCI's ending more meaningful and NOT turning it into a completely meaningless clown fiesta. It's not like it was ever required that Jinbei needs all his limbs afterwards. Even him having lost some Sun pirate comrades or life span would've been fine, but he returned without any (!) consequences from their dramatic final stand. That's very disappointing, anti-climatic writing.
Why would Marco arriving "prematurely" change anything? Who defines what "prematurely" means here? It's not like he played any major role whatsoever anyway. You could've written the entire arc without Marco and it wouldn't change the overall story at all.
The prison arc in itself wasn't the problem - it was the amount of chapters it took. You could've easily put in all the prison story into half the chapters without having to skip any plot points or it feeling rushed.
I think this is unironically the greatest slapstick post I've ever read. This is what I meant when I said "You can do better!"
Why would Marco arriving "prematurely" change anything? Who defines what "prematurely" means here? It's not like he played any major role whatsoever anyway. You could've written the entire arc without Marco and it wouldn't change the overall story at all.
The prison arc in itself wasn't the problem - it was the amount of chapters it took. You could've easily put in all the prison story into half the chapters without having to skip any plot points or it feeling rushed.
I think this is unironically the greatest slapstick post I've ever read. This is what I meant when I said "You can do better!"
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I think this is unironically the greatest slapstick post I've ever read.
And it's nothing personnal. You are just one guy out of a hundred sayin the same old fallacious and uninformed things about the narration of One Piece. It's not new, I was already fighting those arguments back in 2011. The problem is that it's growing because of the influences of social contagions.
So. I'm mainly expressing my frustration in front of this tiring reality here. This forum is lost anyway.
I only hope Oda will be able to finish One Piece before you people manage to influence his writing.
By this logic, somewhere between all of his escapes Luffy should have lost a body part. Buggy's cage, trying to rip out from Big Mom's prison, even Caesar capturing him. We can't even say that Magellan did anything aside from give him an upgraded immune system lol. The point, the big one, is that just because it can happen doesn't persuade that it should . Beating the Sun Pirates in a sea skirmish isn't an improvement for the story. Jinbe was delayed not only by the skirmish but then tending to the wounded, so that is his penalty.
Writing Marco out entirely... goes toward the main point. Ed's right hand helping in the battle is a considerably big point itself though. I mean he fuckin put Linlin's kids outta commission. There was one point where he held two All Stars by himself. You either lose sight of Oda's story by taking him out or disregard it. "Premature" is relative to what we actually have and any attempt to move a beat earlier is premature whether we prefer it or not.
Writing Marco out entirely... goes toward the main point. Ed's right hand helping in the battle is a considerably big point itself though. I mean he fuckin put Linlin's kids outta commission. There was one point where he held two All Stars by himself. You either lose sight of Oda's story by taking him out or disregard it. "Premature" is relative to what we actually have and any attempt to move a beat earlier is premature whether we prefer it or not.
But that's my point: The only remarkable children of Linlin that were "put out of commission" by Marco were Smoothie (complete waste of a character up until today) and Daifuku, rest was Gifter/Headliner level at best.
You could've easily just let the entire BM ship sail up to Onigashima and start their alliance there. It wouldn't have made any difference in the long run, but Oda could've scratched that God-awful amnesia and ship plots.
On top of that he could've easily brought Marco to Onigashima as Queen's prisoner (taking vacant BM role of Udon) and then free him up and still get some revenge on King and Queen on Onigashima (holding them back etc.).
It's not the only possibility by any means, but I stand by my opinion that this would be way better than that amnesia and BM ship fail plot we got (plus it would save a ton of time).
You could've easily just let the entire BM ship sail up to Onigashima and start their alliance there. It wouldn't have made any difference in the long run, but Oda could've scratched that God-awful amnesia and ship plots.
On top of that he could've easily brought Marco to Onigashima as Queen's prisoner (taking vacant BM role of Udon) and then free him up and still get some revenge on King and Queen on Onigashima (holding them back etc.).
It's not the only possibility by any means, but I stand by my opinion that this would be way better than that amnesia and BM ship fail plot we got (plus it would save a ton of time).
Jinbei without a limb (missing an arm or having a leg replacement like Inurashi) wouldn't change anything in the story other than actually making WCI's ending more meaningful and NOT turning it into a completely meaningless clown fiesta. It's not like it was ever required that Jinbei needs all his limbs afterwards. Even him having lost some Sun pirate comrades or life span would've been fine, but he returned without any (!) consequences from their dramatic final stand. That's very disappointing, anti-climatic writing.
Why would Marco arriving "prematurely" change anything? Who defines what "prematurely" means here? It's not like he played any major role whatsoever anyway. You could've written the entire arc without Marco and it wouldn't change the overall story at all.
The prison arc in itself wasn't the problem - it was the amount of chapters it took. You could've easily put in all the prison story into half the chapters without having to skip any plot points or it feeling rushed.
I think this is unironically the greatest slapstick post I've ever read. This is what I meant when I said "You can do better!"
Why would Marco arriving "prematurely" change anything? Who defines what "prematurely" means here? It's not like he played any major role whatsoever anyway. You could've written the entire arc without Marco and it wouldn't change the overall story at all.
The prison arc in itself wasn't the problem - it was the amount of chapters it took. You could've easily put in all the prison story into half the chapters without having to skip any plot points or it feeling rushed.
I think this is unironically the greatest slapstick post I've ever read. This is what I meant when I said "You can do better!"
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Oda had 0 reason for making Oden twerk for 1 1/2 chapters on the streets
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Edit:
Add 10 chapters to Kaidou's backstory
NO not in the end of the fight
No random Wano dog Onimaru imagine wasting a WHOLE CHAPTER ON
No Raizo (Idc about the Zou moment. literally could replace Raizo with any other important character like Kiku or Izou lmao)
No
No Kawamatsu
No Hiyori LITERALLY MOST USELESS CHARACTER
Have Kaido flashback be revealed after the end of Round 3 aka when Kaido says "you couldn't be joyboy either" CUE FLASHBACK After end of flashback have 2-3 Chapters of Kaido killing mooky ahh Scabbards
When he is about to kill Kinemon, have Luffy get back up and stop him, and since theres no Big Mom... just have The other two save the scabbards and gain their awakenings right before Luffy gets Gear 5,
ALSO
WE DID NOT NEED TO DEFEAT/KILL KAIDO Oda. My god your MC doesnt always have to win WTF
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Exactly its not that hard
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That would hype Queen to high heavens lmao
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Luffys lucky Oven didnt pull up. Oven wouldve FRIED that mook
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Most of what I've said in the rewrite Wano thread:
Make Kaido a more active threat and the true brain of his crew instead of Orochi, who's just a pawn to him, and develop his backstory, his personality and his relations and dynamics between him and his subordinates, as well as the dynamics between the Calamities and the Flying Six.
Bring some much needed tensions and stakes with Kaido, and his crew coming as real threats and worthy of being a Yonko crew, and not the underdogs so handicaped by the plot.
Less Scabbards and less screentime for them, as well them not being able of injuring Kaido. Less of Tama and Momo and Yamato, and if she's even included completely rewrite her personality and motives, as well.
And of course less of Oden, Toki being more developed and not just being a plot device and her talking about the Void Century or at least giving hints about what happened during that time. Oden's father stays dead.
Big Mom and her crew don't come to Wano, and certainly not that waterfall shit.
True character development for Zoro, with him finding about his origins and more about the blades, Ryuma's history and he visits Ryuma's grave.
No Nika or Yamato's I am Oden shit. Oden's flashback is modified to removed that utterly stupid and cringeworthy naked dance and Oden stupidly allowing Kaido and Orochi to comfort their tyranny over Wano.
Marco doesn't come, the arc is bloated enough, and it wasn't even worth bringing him if he doesn't even have any interaction with Luffy.
Kaido's final battle is more of a team efforts between the Supernovas. More of Hawkins and Apoo and of their powers, without them just being Kaido's minions.
Less pacing and slowness, a more elaborated conclusion to the arc.
Make Kaido a more active threat and the true brain of his crew instead of Orochi, who's just a pawn to him, and develop his backstory, his personality and his relations and dynamics between him and his subordinates, as well as the dynamics between the Calamities and the Flying Six.
Bring some much needed tensions and stakes with Kaido, and his crew coming as real threats and worthy of being a Yonko crew, and not the underdogs so handicaped by the plot.
Less Scabbards and less screentime for them, as well them not being able of injuring Kaido. Less of Tama and Momo and Yamato, and if she's even included completely rewrite her personality and motives, as well.
And of course less of Oden, Toki being more developed and not just being a plot device and her talking about the Void Century or at least giving hints about what happened during that time. Oden's father stays dead.
Big Mom and her crew don't come to Wano, and certainly not that waterfall shit.
True character development for Zoro, with him finding about his origins and more about the blades, Ryuma's history and he visits Ryuma's grave.
No Nika or Yamato's I am Oden shit. Oden's flashback is modified to removed that utterly stupid and cringeworthy naked dance and Oden stupidly allowing Kaido and Orochi to comfort their tyranny over Wano.
Marco doesn't come, the arc is bloated enough, and it wasn't even worth bringing him if he doesn't even have any interaction with Luffy.
Kaido's final battle is more of a team efforts between the Supernovas. More of Hawkins and Apoo and of their powers, without them just being Kaido's minions.
Less pacing and slowness, a more elaborated conclusion to the arc.
