Break Week Which are better: Pre-TS Villains or Post-TS Villains?

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Which one had better development?
Doflamingo.

R2: Which one has more charisma?
Doflamingo.

R3:Which one was more evil?
Either Doffy or Caesar Clown.

R4: Which one has better designs?
Crocodile.

R5: Which one provides better fights against the Straw Hats?
Baroque Works or CP9.

Personal Question: Which of them are your favorites?
A lot of them actually.

 

[Least Pirates]

Pre TS

Kaido was a boring mustache twirler in the end, and BM is the worst character ever put in a manga.

 

[Rhea]

Getting pretty damn tired of you always choosing violence like this, sis…besides, Foxy is already dead because Blackbeard a) wanted his power, and b) found him to be unforgivably annoying and irredeemable on a foundational level

 

[trav]

Crocodile and Enel remain on top.

 

[Xione]

Since you eliminated all the better villains that make Post-TS better than pre-TS and limited it to arc villains... then....

• R1: Which one had better development?
Big Mom, what she suffers from is misusage of gag.

• R2: Which one has more charisma?
Kaido

• R3:Which one was more evil?
Big Mom, Kaido close 2nd. I don't think this should be a debate.

• R4: Which one has better designs?
Kaido

• R5: Which one provides better fights against the Straw Hats?
CP9

• Personal Question: Which of them are your favorites?
Big Mom


Most of the arc Villains have been meh. Crocodile was good, then Doflamingo was good. Outside of that it's been nothing special until Linlin and Kaido. But arc villains in general pale in comparison to the grander villains of OP, Gorosei/Akainu/Teach.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Since you eliminated all the better villains that make Post-TS better than pre-TS and limited it to arc villains... then...

What better villains?

 

[Xione]

What better villains?

 

[SakazOuki]

• R3:Which one was more evil?
Big Mom, Kaido close 2nd. I don't think this should be a debate.

Naaah you ain't cooking with this one bro
Doflamingo would mentor Kaido/ Linlin on evil like Garp mentors Coby

Kaido doesnt crack the tip of the iceberg when it comes to evil. As @gz89 he's just a giant dumb lizard

An old post of mine

Spoiler

"Nobody's free until everybody is free" Abolish slavery, do your best to make people happy.

Dispose of trash followers who do not meet your standards. Quality over quantity.

Justice is nothing but word play for powers to meet their ends. History is written by winners.

Buy slaves

Kill your incompetent father for not buying slaves. Be the alpha in your family.

Shoot anyone who doesn't kneel to you.

Even if they betray you, family is family. Forgiveness is key to success.

Teach em young. Lead by example

Get your self some homies who got your back. No one succeeds on his own.

Destroy anyone who messes with your family. Family is not an important thing. It’s everything.

Save the people from their oppressive regimes. Where there is a villain, there is always a hero.

Give people their right to vote. Freedom of speech is part of wise ruling.

Turn people into toys. Bring joy into society.

If you want something done, do it yourself. Trust nobody.

Laugh in the most dire of situations. Emotions are a burden, never let them know you're weak.

Shoot ungrateful little shits who cross you. Put them in their place.

Walk and dress like a boss, the world is watching.

 

[Xione]

Naaah you ain't cooking with this one bro
Doflamingo would mentor Kaido/ Linlin on evil like Garp mentors Coby

You actually believe the Gorosei's sugarbaby is more evil than Kaido let alone Linlin, who's the most evil arc villain there is? No way bruh.

Kaido, the man who had Doffy as his underling, knowing all the shit Doffy did? Kaido whose underling Jack essentially genocided an entire nation if it wasn't for Chopper & Caesar miraculously coming in to save them at the right time?

It's the equivalent of comparing a Mafia Don to got damn Stalin, like bruh... it's not close.

Kaido:
- Damn near genocided the entire nation of Zou, with 0 remorse to find 1 person.
- Had Doflamingo create the SAD gas for him
- Had Doflamingo create the smiles for him, smiles that required live human experimentation
- Had Doflamingo working on the gigantification shit for him, to build upon the failed Ancient Giants he had as numbers
- Had an off-day, and decided to wipe out Kid's crew
- Manipulated Orochi into fucking up his own people, and then once he had served his purpose was about to throw him away and enslave the entirety of Wano.
- Enslaved lord knows how many Samurai in the Udon prisons to do manual labor for him
- Starved people out
- Contaminated Wano with 0 remorse for the people of Wano, long as he benefitted.
- Old ass Grandma who helped him get power helps him out against Oden? Well too bad old hag shouldn't have jumped in, 1-shot.
- Let's not even get into the Oden punishment he gave with the boiling and then having him be shot up.

The scale of evil in which Kaido operates is just vastly above Doflamingo's.


The only people who would be superior to Kaido & Linlin out of pirates for being evil would be Blackbeard and maybe Kid.


As for Big Mom.... she burns down entire islands over sweets... that bitch is just next level evil.

 

[gz89]

Don Krieg is a better villain than Meme.

 

[Blahmigooo]

The amount of plot armor and help SH got after timeskip is ridiculous and such most villains can't be much a threat and menacing as they should be even Yonkos like Kaido and BM. Doffy standout the most not even because how big of a threat or menacing he is but purely due to his character being evil psychopath results from horrific childhood

Pre-skip was raw, power dynamics are well written, the struggle, fights and plot are well established, there's no bullshit haki this and that( post skip looks like DBZ), more focusing on the Strawhat members and much lesser side character involvement.

 

[SakazOuki]

You actually believe the Gorosei's sugarbaby is more evil than Kaido let alone Linlin, who's the most evil arc villain there is? No way bruh.

Kaido, the man who had Doffy as his underling, knowing all the shit Doffy did? Kaido whose underling Jack essentially genocided an entire nation if it wasn't for Chopper & Caesar miraculously coming in to save them at the right time?

It's the equivalent of comparing a Mafia Don to got damn Stalin, like bruh... it's not close.

Kaido:
- Damn near genocided the entire nation of Zou, with 0 remorse to find 1 person.
- Had Doflamingo create the SAD gas for him
- Had Doflamingo create the smiles for him, smiles that required live human experimentation
- Had Doflamingo working on the gigantification shit for him, to build upon the failed Ancient Giants he had as numbers
- Had an off-day, and decided to wipe out Kid's crew
- Manipulated Orochi into fucking up his own people, and then once he had served his purpose was about to throw him away and enslave the entirety of Wano.
- Enslaved lord knows how many Samurai in the Udon prisons to do manual labor for him
- Starved people out
- Contaminated Wano with 0 remorse for the people of Wano, long as he benefitted.
- Old ass Grandma who helped him get power helps him out against Oden? Well too bad old hag shouldn't have jumped in, 1-shot.
- Let's not even get into the Oden punishment he gave with the boiling and then having him be shot up.

The scale of evil in which Kaido operates is just vastly above Doflamingo's.


The only people who would be superior to Kaido & Linlin out of pirates for being evil would be Blackbeard and maybe Kid.


As for Big Mom.... she burns down entire islands over sweets... that bitch is just next level evil.

Thing about Kaido is he's just a dumb brute, and being dumb doesn't really equate to evil
-He wants Doflamingo to create him a strong army, how and why are not in his consideration
-He enslaves a nation and forces them to create weapons because he's strong, big eats small is pretty basic stuff
-Same for destroying Kidd pirates, thats Shanks level of evil

To me comparing Doflamingo and Kaido is like comparing a brainless beast like a lion with Vlad the Impaler
Doflamingo is wicked, he torments people for fun.
-Not only did he enslave people, he willingly turned them into literal toys who craved their loved ones attention for decades but they were just erased from memory and existance.
-Doffy thinks death is the only way to forgive his father and brother
-The shit he did with Riku while laughing his ass off
-The trauma he caused Bellamy, someone who looked up to him, is just next level lmao
Doffy sinned in every way known to mankind

Linlin and Kaido are just braindead teenagers who happen to be strong

 

[Rednick]

Pre timeskip: Arlong and Crocodile.
Post timeskip: Donflamingo(best villain ever) and Kaido.
Worst villains: hordy, caesar, linlin and moria

Post automatically merged: Jun 7, 2023

. The amount of plot armor and help SH got after timeskip is ridiculous and such most villains can't be much a threat and menacing as they should be even Yonkos like Kaido and BM

Emmm not exactly. Pre timeskip Luffy was saved by a freaking bubble against croco and lucci pierced him yet after a while it was like nothing had happened. Luffy always had plot armor.
About post, he was already stronger than hordy and caesar. Defeated doffy thanks to law and cracker thanks to nami. With katakuri i agree, it was definitely plot armor. And Kaido basically killed him and got revived or some shit. Surely had some plot armor but at least there was an explanation(training+ awakening). Law and kid vs big mom was a shitshow. Nothing to elaborate on that. So yes plot armor was always present. Not just in post timeskip.

 

[MonsterKaido]

You actually believe the Gorosei's sugarbaby is more evil than Kaido let alone Linlin, who's the most evil arc villain there is? No way bruh.

Kaido, the man who had Doffy as his underling, knowing all the shit Doffy did? Kaido whose underling Jack essentially genocided an entire nation if it wasn't for Chopper & Caesar miraculously coming in to save them at the right time?

It's the equivalent of comparing a Mafia Don to got damn Stalin, like bruh... it's not close.

Kaido:
- Damn near genocided the entire nation of Zou, with 0 remorse to find 1 person.
- Had Doflamingo create the SAD gas for him
- Had Doflamingo create the smiles for him, smiles that required live human experimentation
- Had Doflamingo working on the gigantification shit for him, to build upon the failed Ancient Giants he had as numbers
- Had an off-day, and decided to wipe out Kid's crew
- Manipulated Orochi into fucking up his own people, and then once he had served his purpose was about to throw him away and enslave the entirety of Wano.
- Enslaved lord knows how many Samurai in the Udon prisons to do manual labor for him
- Starved people out
- Contaminated Wano with 0 remorse for the people of Wano, long as he benefitted.
- Old ass Grandma who helped him get power helps him out against Oden? Well too bad old hag shouldn't have jumped in, 1-shot.
- Let's not even get into the Oden punishment he gave with the boiling and then having him be shot up.

The scale of evil in which Kaido operates is just vastly above Doflamingo's.


The only people who would be superior to Kaido & Linlin out of pirates for being evil would be Blackbeard and maybe Kid.


As for Big Mom.... she burns down entire islands over sweets... that bitch is just next level evil.

Pretty much. Doffy is a part of Kaido's empire. Oda even wanted doffy to be defeated in wano initially.

 

[Xione]

Thing about Kaido is he's just a dumb brute, and being dumb doesn't really equate to evil
-He wants Doflamingo to create him a strong army, how and why are not in his consideration
-He enslaves a nation and forces them to create weapons because he's strong, big eats small is pretty basic stuff
-Same for destroying Kidd pirates, thats Shanks level of evil

To me comparing Doflamingo and Kaido is like comparing a brainless beast like a lion with Vlad the Impaler
Doflamingo is wicked, he torments people for fun.
-Not only did he enslave people, he willingly turned them into literal toys who craved their loved ones attention for decades but they were just erased from memory and existance.
-Doffy thinks death is the only way to forgive his father and brother
-The shit he did with Riku while laughing his ass off
-The trauma he caused Bellamy, someone who looked up to him, is just next level lmao
Doffy sinned in every way known to mankind

Linlin and Kaido are just braindead teenagers who happen to be strong

Yeaaa bro I heavily disagree with them being braindead teenagers. BUT let me reply in making a separate thread, rather than a long ass post in here. Cause this lowkey makes me want to dive into Kaido's character more and do a proper breakdown of his evil mind.

 

[Poorsalino Cooker]

The amount of plot armor and help SH got after timeskip is ridiculous and such most villains can't be much a threat and menacing as they should be even Yonkos like Kaido and BM. Doffy standout the most not even because how big of a threat or menacing he is but purely due to his character being evil psychopath results from horrific childhood

Pre-skip was raw, power dynamics are well written, the struggle, fights and plot are well established, there's no bullshit haki this and that( post skip looks like DBZ), more focusing on the Strawhat members and much lesser side character involvement.

Luffy always had a bit of obnoxious plot armor, but I agree with the rest. It was so nice when they had to figure out clever or unexpected bs ways to deal with Logia powers or powerful opponents. Now more often than not it feels like haki is the go 2 answer for most challenges. Some say Nika is an attempt to return to form but that just feels like more plot armor since the only limit is Luffy's imagination now.

I still stand by my belief that Doffy is so good as a villain because his arc was probably written way before the time skip, even if most of his crew is just Baroque Works 2.0. In contrast to Kaido and Big Meme, who Oda couldn't even decide on designs or half decent silhouettes.

I'll never get over the disappointment for these two. Even Orochi was a better villain.