Questions & Mysteries Why do Zoro fans hate their character?

[ZenZu]

Tbh I think that's definitely not out of the realm of possibility..well Sengoku is unimpressive to me anyways but the idea of C3 being on par or above Prime Garp isn't completely out of question.

Its just that with time Oda needs to adjust on panel hype and portrayal of admirals and don't pull stunts like Shanks shaking Green Brocolli from like 1000 Miles away

Admirals portrayal is up there, that moment was really the first time portrayal even wavered, and you have to consider a few things.

1.It came from a blatant Akainu dickrider, a hint that there is a gap between GB and Akainu (unlike the C3), traditionally you don't tipride an equal.
2.Personality has to be considered, GB seems a lot more expressive than the others. Either way Kizaru did not give a single shit about confronting Big Mom and Kaidou by himself, so we can't go all in on one moment and then completely ignore the other, either it's a personality thing or Kizaru is simply that strong (maybe a mix of both?).
3.Oda had GB mention Shanks not once, only refer to the crew multiple times so that the discussion can remain open ended.
4.The moment was an overkill (it came after GB was already taking on an alliance that defeated 2 Yonkou)

And this is me ignoring the whole promotion aspect. Besides as a man who values feats more than anything, you shouldn't have a problem placing the C3 above someone like Kaidou if they outperform him. That would mean the likes of Garp and by extension Roger and Garp were always within reach.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Firstly, the reason why I like Zoro has less to do with powerlevel and more to do with his badassery, loyalty, code of honor (Akainu/Kizaru dont have it), perseverance, etc, etc. If he is below X, Y or Z in terms of powerlevel, that doesnt affect how much I love his character.

Secondly, Mihawk>Akainu>Kizaru, we are good.

 

[ZenZu]

Firstly, the reason why I like Zoro has less to do with powerlevel and more to do with his badassery, loyalty, code of honor (Akainu/Kizaru dont have it), perseverance, etc, etc. If he is below X, Y or Z in terms of powerlevel, that doesnt affect how much I love his character.

Secondly, Mihawk>Akainu>Kizaru, we are good.

Just a friendly reminder for everyone, this man here ^ thinks Kizaru was Marco level until GB had to knock some sense into him by turning K/Q into plant food. It'll take this one a few more years to come to terms with reality. One baby step at a time Nidai you can do it!

 

[Gol D. Roger]

I am all for admiral wank/Kizaru but Mihawk is stronger—he and Shanks are up there with Akainu if not stronger. Rayleigh is beyond them all though—only Roger and WB are definitely above him at this point. Zoro is surpassing Roger IMO.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Just a friendly reminder for everyone, this man here ^ thinks Kizaru was Marco level until GB had to knock some sense into him by turning K/Q into plant food. It'll take this one a few more years to come to terms with reality. One baby step at a time Nidai you can do it!

Most believed Kizaru was Marco level, that was the most logical thing to do after their Marineford clash and Gorosei claimed Marco could stop Blackbeard.

As I said before, if Akainu is Luffy's final opponent, he has been the strongest all along. Same goes for Kizaru. If he is Zoro's final opponent, I will change my opinion of him. Dont run away from forums if the strawhats dont fight the admirals.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Admirals portrayal is up there, that moment was really the first time portrayal even wavered, and you have to consider a few things.

1.It came from a blatant Akainu dickrider, a hint that there is a gap between GB and Akainu (unlike the C3), traditionally you don't tipride an equal.
2.Personality has to be considered, GB seems a lot more expressive than the others. Either way Kizaru did not give a single shit about confronting Big Mom and Kaidou by himself, so we can't go all in on one moment and then completely ignore the other, either it's a personality thing or Kizaru is simply that strong (maybe a mix of both?).
3.Oda had GB mention Shanks not once, only refer to the crew multiple times so that the discussion can remain open ended.
4.The moment was an overkill (it came after GB was already taking on an alliance that defeated 2 Yonkou)

And this is me ignoring the whole promotion aspect. Besides as a man who values feats more than anything, you shouldn't have a problem placing the C3 above someone like Kaidou if they outperform him. That would mean the likes of Garp and by extension Roger and Garp were always within reach.

I mean featwise Green Bull did do better against Scabbards than Kaido since Yamato was helping them too but then again Green Bull is designed to be able to take out multiple opponents due to his large AoE power set.

I don't quite place Green Bull above Kaido but Kizaru being able above Kaido is definitely possible.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

I am all for admiral wank/Kizaru but Mihawk is stronger—he and Shanks are up there with Akainu if not stronger. Rayleigh is beyond them all though—only Roger and WB are definitely above him at this point. Zoro is surpassing Roger IMO.

See @ZenZu
Unlike you, my boy Gol D is smart

 

[ZenZu]

See @ZenZu
Unlike you, my boy Gol D is smart

I don't agree nor disagree. I'm just saying don't act surprised if/when Kizaru is unrestrained in the future. Kizaru should be able to give Akainu an extreme diff fight or close enough, anything goes when you're at that level.

I don't deal in absolutes, last we saw Mihawk and Akainu in the same place Akainu was getting tickled after taking a free hit by the bloodlusted version of the man who a few chapters prior was smiling and casually stalemating Mihawk. Vista was simply one of the ants among many that couldn't even stop Akainu from advancing (literally Shanks had to spawn in to do that). I'm not one to blow MF feats for Mihawk out of proportion but rn we're discussing portrayal. It's a lot to say Mihawk is definitely stronger than Kizaru with such confidence.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

I don't agree or disagree. I'm just saying don't act surprised if/when Kizaru is unrestrained in the future. Kizaru should be able to give Akainu an extreme diff fight or close enough, anything goes when you're at that level.

I don't deal in absolutes, last we saw Mihawk and Akainu in the same place Akainu was getting tickled after taking a free hit by the bloodlusted version of the man who a few chapters prior was smiling and casually stalemating Mihawk. Vista was simply one of the ants among many that couldn't even stop Akainu from advancing (literally Shanks had to spawn in to do that). I'm not one to blow MF feats for Mihawk out of proportion but rn we're discussing portrayal. It's a lot to say Mihawk is definitely stronger than Kizaru with such confidence.

You dont deal in absolutes, but you are absolutely sure Kizaru could give Akainu an extreme diff? Not only that, you are using that false premise to compare Kizaru and Mihawk? Is this a joke? it would be similar if I use Kaido's portrayal to elevate Big Mom.

Mihawk has his own portrayal: WSS, Shank's (who most believe above Kizaru) rival, 3.6 billion bounties without a crew. What does Kizaru have? Just being an admiral wont cut it.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

either trolling or trying to make absolutely no sense
they can flip this argument and mention aokiji who was a fleet admiral contender, toe to toe with akainu ,but is now currently under Blackbeard. how would any other admiral be a more impressive fight from that perspective . .......

dont be disingenuous
taking down mihawk should be the equivalent of taking down a yonko captain and that isnt headcanon

he is the biggest threat in crossguild.

 

[ZenZu]

You dont deal in absolutes, but you are absolutely sure Kizaru could give Akainu an extreme diff? Not only that, you are using that false premise to compare Kizaru and Mihawk? Is this a joke? it would be similar if I use Kaido's portrayal to elevate Big Mom.

Lmfao that's not the same thing at all. I'm using the only thing we know of the C3, that they are extremely close in power, and we have been given no reason to think otherwise (refer to Kuzan vs Akainu and the MF war).

We have been given infinite reasons to think (forget thinking we have proof) there is a pretty sizable gap between Big Mom and Kaidou, both characters went all out. It's over we don't need to guess anything. Kaidou was even directly placed above her multiple times. Akainu not a single time was said to be stronger than Kizaru, how about that for a start? Before you start bringing up Big Mom?

Mihawk has his own portrayal: WSS, Shank's (who most believe above Kizaru) rival, 3.6 billion bounties without a crew. What does Kizaru have? Just being an admiral wont cut it.

Kizaru has like a top 3 fruit in this verse, and he is no weaker than Kuzan via on screen portrayal or on screen feats as a whole. Until I've been given a legit reason to think Akainu is much stronger than Kizaru, this is what I'm sticking with. Sure it's possible even likely in the future Akainu ends up with far superior feats (thanks to him playing a bigger role) à la Big Mom and Kaidou, but that hasn't happened yet. Both have only scratched the surface at MF and Kizaru walked out without so much as a scratch on him.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Kaidou was even directly placed above her multiple times. Akainu not a single time was said to be stronger than Kizaru, how about that for a start? Before you start bringing up Big Mom?

But there are plenty of panels where Big Mom got directly compared to Kaido. There is not a single panel that says, "Hey look, there are three Akainu's waiting in the platform". Lets start from here instead.

I'm using the only thing we know of the C3, that they are extremely close in power

No, I dont know that. Aokiji vs Akainu battle has nothing to do with Kizaru's powerlevel.

Kizaru has like a top 3 fruit in this verse

Is this all you have for Kizaru, mr. dont-deal-in-absolute? 😂😂 Where does it say Kizaru's fruit is top 3 in the verse?

Until I've been given a legit reason to think Akainu is much stronger than Kizaru, this is what I'm sticking with. Sure it's possible even likely in the future Akainu ends up with far superior feats (thanks to him playing a bigger role) à la Big Mom and Kaidou, but that hasn't happened yet. Both have only scratched the surface at MF and Kizaru walked out without so much as a scratch on him.

Come on man, Akainu had far superior feats in Marineford.

 

[ZenZu]

But there are plenty of panels where Big Mom got directly compared to Kaido. There is not a single panel that says, "Hey look, there are three Akainu's waiting in the platform". Lets start from here instead.

Yes there are. And being placed directly above someone is far far more rare in this series than the opposite, the point being it's clear there is a substantial gap between Kaidou and Big Mom.

No, I dont know that. Aokiji vs Akainu battle has nothing to do with Kizaru's powerlevel.

That's a you problem, I can't solve. You thought Kizaru ~ Marco up until a few months ago 💀

Is this all you have for Kizaru, mr. dont-deal-in-absolute? 😂😂 Where does it say Kizaru's fruit is top 3 in the verse?

I'm using Akainu who actually tried in MF. And Kuzan who got slightly worse portrayal than Kizaru in MF. To say that C3 are closely knit. And that if Akainu is above or debatable with Mihawk, than Kizaru is not far behind if at all. I didn't reach the conclusion of Kizaru > Mihawk through it like you're acting like I am. An absolute would be saying Akainu is definitely above Mihawk, I haven't even said that yet let alone Kizaru.

Regarding his fruit, it's a logia, and even among the logia its the cream of the crop. That alone puts it in rarified air, but then when you dig deeper it's prob the best of the C3, just as lethal, just as destructive, just as much range, just as much AOE, but much faster, more versatile. That's neither here nor there though.

Come on man, Akainu had far superior feats in Marineford.

And he suffered for it, Kizaru didn't take a single scratch in MF. Now obviously portrayal wise this means Akainu > Kizaru, but the gap was shown not to be big at all via Akainu vs Aokiji (who was being matched with inferior opponents to Kizaru's). The safest and most reasonable assumption here would be Kizaru falls in the same category, we have been given no legitimate reason to think otherwise when all 3 were present in the same place.

 

[Topi Jerami]

but is now currently under Blackbeard.

He is not only under Blackbeard, he is also under Shiryu.

Judging from the colorspread, we know 100% that:
- Rayleigh was 100% Roger's strongest man, at Roger's latest adventure maybe Rayleigh was even stronger because Roger was in bad health.
- Beckman is 100% Shanks' strongest man, he is even said to be comparable to Shanks.
- King is 100% Kaido's strongest man. He even surpasses Kaido in 1 of Kaido's strongest point, durability.
- Katakuri is 100% Big Mom's strongest man, he surpasses her in CoO.
- Killer is 100% Kidd's strongest man.
- Marco was 100% Whitebeard's strongest man after Oden left their crew.
- Sulong Bepo is 100% Law's strongest man.
- Zoro is 100% Luffy's strongest man.
- Sabo is 100% Dragon's strongest man, he even surpassed Dragon's fame lately.

So why should we make exception just for Aokiji and Shiryu's case???

 

[Gol D. Roger]

See @ZenZu
Unlike you, my boy Gol D is smart

I don't rank Kizaru/Kuzan any differently than Akainu, Shanks, and Mihawk generally speaking. I just give the trio a definite edge over them mostly due to their plot relevance. Ngl, Shanks' treatment of GB increased my confidence in putting Shanks over the admirals, which, in turn, improves Mihawk's placement too.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

My Power Scaling Currently

Mihawk
Shanks/Akainu
Kizaru/Aokiji
Kaido
Blackbeard/Luffy
Green Bull/Fujitora/Old Rayleigh/Old Garp
Zoro/Beckman/Shiryu/Sabo
Law/Kidd
Sanji/King/Marco
Katakuri etc

@ZenZu
@SakazOuki

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

You thought Kizaru ~ Marco up until a few months ago 💀

Thats not true. I didnt rate Marco that close to admirals since Luffy's Kong gun sent Katakuri flying and made him bleed when Katakuri blocked that punch with both hands and armament hardening. At the same time, I didnt think the gap is as big as Greenbull proved.

Kuzan who got slightly worse portrayal than Kizaru in MF.

No, Kuzan didnt get a worse portrayal. Kuzan got a better portrayal. Kuzan beat his opponent 1on1, didnt need Onigumo's help. Oda didnt use Kuzan as a hypetool of Ben Beckmann.

To say that C3 are closely knit. And that if Akainu is above or debatable with Mihawk, than Kizaru is not far behind if at all.

I never say they are closely knit, thats a generic bs.

An absolute would be saying Akainu is definitely above Mihawk, I haven't even said that yet let alone Kizaru.

I have Mihawk above Akainu

Regarding his fruit, it's a logia, and even among the logia its the cream of the crop. That alone puts it in rarified air, but then when you dig deeper it's prob the best of the C3, just as lethal, just as destructive, just as much range, just as much AOE, but much faster, more versatile. That's neither here nor there though.

You had to invent "Kizaru's fruit is top 3" because you got nothing going for him. The fruit might very well be a top 3 in the verse, but rn you dont have any manga fact to back it up, like =>
Gura gura - has the power to destroy the world
Ope Ope - ultimate devil fruit
Nika Nika - most ridiculous power
Yami yami - most wicked power

Please dont compare Kizaru to Mihawk.

 

[ZenZu]

Please dont compare Kizaru to Mihawk.

Lmao wild thing to say imo (and this is where the downplay comes in) but ok I'll let the manga sort this out.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Lmao wild thing to say imo but ok I'll let the manga sort this out.

Why? Have you seen what Shanks did to Greenbull?

 

[Welkin]

My Power Scaling Currently

Mihawk
Shanks/Akainu
Kizaru/Aokiji
Kaido
Blackbeard/Luffy
Green Bull/Fujitora/Old Rayleigh/Old Garp
Zoro/Beckman/Shiryu/Sabo
Law/Kidd
Sanji/King/Marco
Katakuri etc

@ZenZu
@SakazOuki

I'm surprised you're not on the Shiryu > Aokiji train