Character Discussion Why Hiyori should have been a fighter and why Oda wasted her character

[Ballel]

I originally wanted to answer to Ha00's post in another thread but since my post got so long and turned into a rant I decided to make it its own thread.

Yup. The sword was never for her. It was always for her husband. Look at how kuina was treated. Wano is like that for women.

The real question is: Why is Hiyori not a fighter??


She could have easily had a plot where one of the scabbards trains her so that she can support the scabbards&Momo in the future as a fully grown badass female warrior.

And Wano being a "traditional/ conservative" country is a non - argument. There are lots of old period dramas and even older storys about female warriors that are raised as warriors to enact vengeance, this would have been a plot perfect for Hiyori. Just think of stories like Lady Snowblood.


Instead we get a feeble princess who can 't do much more than act as a support character and the typical "woman in the background".

The time she won by not travelling to the future she did not even spend with her guardian Kawamatsu but as a prostitute.

She ran away, only to be spotted by a prostitute who decides to pick her up . Like, ANY other person could have found Hiyori. But no, it has to be a person who would not think twice about turning a small girl into a prostitute apprentice with, once grown up,
the goal of becoming a prostitute herself.
It doesn't make it any better that Hiyori probably never had sex with customers because Kyoshiro "shielded" her and created this myth of her being unachievable.

Hiyori even being SEEN as a prostitute by the audience suggests her sexual availability. She was reduced to her beauty, her body and the sexual desires men have towards her.
This is very well illustrated by the discussions in this very forum that were all about " Hiyori is amoral and dirty because she chose the eAsY way of making money with her body", "she would be worthless as a girlfriend because she's used goods" "Hoeyori" etc.
Then other people came and "defended" her by saying "She never actually had Sex with them" .
Again, it was only about her sexuality.


Oda writes nearly any of his female characters in sexually suggestive scenes.

He says he writes for 15yo boys. But the problem is that he writes for 15 yo boys from the 80s. Since Oda uses his own 15yo self the writing of One Piece does not evolve.
The expectations Oda's target audience today have, also regarding portrayal of female characters, has changed.

This can be seen in the actual reader demographics: 15yo boys don't read One Piece anymore.
It's mostly adults. A good portion of them female.
Oda is writing for a fictional target audience that does not exist anymore.

Spoiler: Some tags

@Jew D. Boy
@notAfanboy
@Den_Den_Mushi
@KiriNigiri
@Kurodiamondo
@Jackteo
@Cinera
@HA001
@Ten Yaksha Blother
@Ravagerblade
@Buusatan94

 

[Finalbeta]

I wished she was a fighter and many other females in the verse. I also wished Smoothie wasn't wasted so excessively and extensively thus far.

In other words Oda should have worked better on this aspect and a very broad matter per instance.

 

[Geo]

I originally wanted to answer to Ha00's post in another thread but since my post got so long and turned into a rant I decided to make it its own thread.






The real question is: Why is Hiyori not a fighter??


She could have easily had a plot where one of the scabbards trains her so that she can support the scabbards&Momo in the future as a fully grown badass female warrior.

And Wano being a "traditional/ conservative" country is a non - argument. There are lots of old period dramas and even older storys about female warriors that are raised as warriors to enact vengeance, this would have been a plot perfect for Hiyori. Just think of stories like Lady Snowblood.


Instead we get a feeble princess who can 't do much more than act as a support character and the typical "woman in the background".

The time she won by not travelling to the future she did not even spend with her guardian Kawamatsu but as a prostitute.

She ran away, only to be spotted by a prostitute who decides to pick her up . Like, ANY other person could have found Hiyori. But no, it has to be a person who would not think twice about turning a small girl into a prostitute apprentice with, once grown up,
the goal of becoming a prostitute herself.
It doesn't make it any better that Hiyori probably never had sex with customers because Kyoshiro "shielded" her and created this myth of her being unachievable.

Hiyori even being SEEN as a prostitute by the audience suggests her sexual availability. She was reduced to her beauty, her body and the sexual desires men have towards her.
This is very well illustrated by the discussions in this very forum that were all about " Hiyori is amoral and dirty because she chose the eAsY way of making money with her body", "she would be worthless as a girlfriend because she's used goods" "Hoeyori" etc.
Then other people came and "defended" her by saying "She never actually had Sex with them" .
Again, it was only about her sexuality.


Oda writes nearly any of his female characters in sexually suggestive scenes.

He says he writes for 15yo boys. But the problem is that he writes for 15 yo boys from the 80s. Since Oda uses his own 15yo self the writing of One Piece does not evolve.
The expectations Oda's target audience today have, also regarding portrayal of female characters, has changed.

This can be seen in the actual reader demographics: 15yo boys don't read One Piece anymore.
It's mostly adults. A good portion of them female.
Oda is writing for a fictional target audience that does not exist anymore.

Spoiler: Some tags

@Jew D. Boy
@notAfanboy
@Den_Den_Mushi
@KiriNigiri
@Kurodiamondo
@Jackteo
@Cinera
@HA001
@Ten Yaksha Blother
@Ravagerblade
@Buusatan94

Like you said this is just a rant. It is devoid of actual facts and misrepresented at every turn even including blatantly false information.

For the OP title, her not being a fighter doesn't mean her character is wasted. Character strength doesn't depend on fighting

 

[Ballel]

misrepresented at every turn even including blatantly false information.

What exactly did I misrepresent? Elaborate.
Maybe I should have said 'ruined ' instead of 'wasted'.

Character strength doesn't depend on fighting

Where exactly do you see Hiyori's strength as a character?

 

[Kurodiamondo]

Dont worry she will surprise us. At least she will do some drop kick in the future
:cheers:

 

[Sir Yasheen]

She’ll finish off Orochi with Zoros help.

 

[Ballel]

Dont worry she will surprise us. At least she will do some drop kick in the future
:cheers:

There's too many implications that she will not.
She stopped developing these drop kicks off hers.
Oda seems to see this as a positive evolution of her character.

 

[Kurodiamondo]

There's too many implications that she will not.
She stopped developing these drop kicks off hers.
Oda seems to see this as a positive evolution of her character.

We still dont know. If thats the case, It's better that oda doesnt make her do the drop kick when she was 8

 

[Hades]

Komurasaki is solid character until she became Hiyori....she looked solid when she bitchslapped Orochi but unfortunately she was another wasted potential just like her mother Toki....

 

[Ballel]

We still dont know. If thats the case, It's better that oda doesnt make her do the drop kick when she was 8

Oda seems to think that a 'wild ' girl is supposed to 'mature' into an elegant woman.
Just look at Aisa and Laki.

 

[Geo]

What exactly did I misrepresent? Elaborate.
Maybe I should have said 'ruined ' instead of 'wasted'.

Almost everything.

this would have been a plot perfect for Hiyor

^ your opinion

Instead we get a feeble princess who can 't do much more than act as a support character and the typical "woman in the background".

^blatantly false

she did not even spend with her guardian Kawamatsu but as a prostitute.

^ more falsehoods

She ran away, only to be spotted by a prostitute who decides to pick her up . Like, ANY other person could have found Hiyori. But no, it has to be a person who would not think twice about turning a small girl into a prostitute apprentice with, once grown up,
the goal of becoming a prostitute herself.
It doesn't make it any better that Hiyori probably never had sex with customers because Kyoshiro "shielded" her and created this myth of her being unachievable.

This entire paragraph proves my point. misrepresentations to its max. You only need to read the manga to know how wrong and twisted you've made it.

Hiyori even being SEEN as a prostitute by the audience suggests her sexual availability.

Pure ridiculous generalization.

He says he writes for 15yo boys. But the problem is that he writes for 15 yo boys from the 80s. Since Oda uses his own 15yo self the writing of One Piece does not evolve.
The expectations Oda's target audience today have, also regarding portrayal of female characters, has changed.

This can be seen in the actual reader demographics: 15yo boys don't read One Piece anymore.
It's mostly adults. A good portion of them female.
Oda is writing for a fictional target audience that does not exist anymore.

Purely opinionated. Just because he said before that the target audience was 15 year olds doesn't mean he hasn't changed his view since then.
Your points are just filled with your feelings, your mindset. Trying to project that on others to claim that views have changed is like I stated "devoid of facts"

 

[Ballel]

Almost everything.

^ your opinion

blatantly false

more falsehoods

This entire paragraph proves my point. misrepresentations to its max. You only need to read the manga to know how wrong and twisted you've made it.

Then please correct me if you think that all I say is wrong. What do YOU think about they things I mentioned?

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2021

Purely opinionated. Just because he said before that the target audience was 15 year olds doesn't mean he hasn't changed his view since then.
Your points are just filled with your feelings, your mindset. Trying to project that on others to claim that views have changed is like I stated "devoid of facts"

Oda has not changed his mind regarding his target audience.
He has stated multiple times that hee sees himself as an author for boys.

Read this link for example.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/7mo0ed
There are numerous other instances where he stated this.

 

[Date]

Its very clear that Hiyori was left in the past just to make the Kozuki bloodline survive in her children if Momo&Cia failed, the fight was always in the hands of the scabbards, they wouldnt let the Kozuki princess become a fighter.

But i think even with all of this she still going to kill Orochi together with Zoro.




Not just Wano is based in Japan, but Oda himself is a japanese, writing manly for a japanese masculine audience, of course the manga would be about boys fighting with some hot girls as side characters and not about the desconstruction of gender places in society for wokes from California.

And if u become soo triggered by someone being a Oiran, that is a very traditional part of japanese culture, i recomend u to open more your mind and have more respect for the sex workers, they are people and this mindset of seen them as less worthy is just u showing your bias.

rs

 

[Fuckthis3]

You forgot to add she should never been in a kimono flex that sexy body

 

[Xlaw]

That would have beein much cooler than any plot. Just replace her with Yamato . Kaido raising Oden's daughter knowingly/unknowingly , that would be tragic .

 

[Geo]

Then please correct me if you think that all I say is wrong. What do YOU think about they things I mentioned?

I told you what I thought. The manga can do more than I can, just reread that portion without your biases.
With special notice to
> all the times she was shown as a primary figure.
> Her not being a prostitute
> Her reason for leaving Kawamatsu
> Her ties to Yasuie, Otoko and Zoro
Etc

 

[TrafalgarD.Law]

Oda is well known sexist. No wonder Japan ranks so low in Gender inequality .

Compared to other mangaka he is slightly better . I have seen worse .

 

[Ballel]

Not just Wano is based in Japan, but Oda himself is a japanese, writing manly for a japanese masculine audience, of course the manga would be about boys fighting with some hot girls as side characters and not about the desconstruction of gender places in society for wokes from California

Other manga authors who are just as Japanese as Oda are doing it differently.

And women as fighters is far from a 'deconstruction ' of gender roles.
Please inform yourself a bit more on this topic. Did you even read my post completely?

And I'm not from California.

And if u become soo triggered by someone being a Oiran, that is a very traditional part of japanese culture, i recomend u to open more your mind and have more respect for the sex workers, they are people and this mindset of seen them as less worthy is just u showing your bias.

Please reread my post.
I was not saying that prostitutes are lesser people.

 

[Chrono]

Oda loves his damsels.

 

[Tigapedang]

Oda Should have been erase yamato then make hiyori strong female samurai....how hard is that?

Yamato character is the worst
Her existance in a raid feels forced
Also her obsession with oden seems like lazy writing


Imagine hiyori being trained by denjiro
Oden itself was a monster, the kids shouldve been a monster too, even toki is a sword fighter
With kozuki bloodline and nitoryuu hiyori will be a much better character than trashmato...