General & Others Why is it a popular saying that Oda didn't plan haki since the beginning ?

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Lightbolt

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#1
#1
3 Instances of haki before Enies Lobby which is mid way point pre time skip :

Coc Shanks and the sea king Chapter 1
Coo Enel Skypeia
Coa Garp EL

Is it really something that was never planned when we have got it shown since chapter 1 and we got all type of haki shown before even mid point pre time skip.Even after all three type of haki was shown‚ Oda still didn't show us the black armament coating ( that lots of theories use to prove Oda never planned haki ) in the Marineford War and yet we saw how Whitebeard can hit Akainu with no black coating which means armament doesn't need to be black coating to be used in battle
 
D

duckman

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#2
#2
Garp Enies Lobby is very specifically not Haki. Oda was asked and he said no.
Rokushiki is Haki, and a clearer example. That said, it wasn't intended to be Haki when it came out but was rectonned,
It is very obvious that Haki as Haki did not exist by the time of Thriller Bark, especially with BlackBeard telling Ace this:


Haki existing as it does now makes this "Been a while" statement useless.

Shanks in Chapter one, you have to be joking. Might as well argue Batman has Conqueror's Haki. It's a clear retcon, and we can roll with it. If you want to argue that this is 100% haki, then we can poke holes in it all day. Imagine a CoO user fooled by smoke bombs. Lol.
 
L

Lightbolt

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#3
#3
duckman said:
Garp Enies Lobby is very specifically not Haki. Oda was asked and he said no.
Rokushiki is Haki, and a clearer example. That said, it wasn't intended to be Haki when it came out but was rectonned,
It is very obvious that Haki as Haki did not exist by the time of Thriller Bark, especially with BlackBeard telling Ace this:


Haki existing as it does now makes this "Been a while" statement useless.

Shanks in Chapter one, you have to be joking. Might as well argue Batman has Conqueror's Haki. It's a clear retcon, and we can roll with it. If you want to argue that this is 100% haki, then we can poke holes in it all day. Imagine a CoO user fooled by smoke bombs. Lol.
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What is the explanation for Enel's Coo and Garp being able to hurt Luffy's rubber body with a blunt punch ?
 
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duckman

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#9
#9
comrade said:
The moment Oda came up with Logia (Smoker) he already planned a counter for it. Being such an essential part of One Piece, I doubt he came up with it on the fly.
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Wow, you don't say? Maybe something like...Seastone...
Post automatically merged:

Lightbolt said:
Didn't Oda also say that Sanji's fire is his burning passion or something like that ? His reply to Garp seems more as him joking than a real answer cause we know blunt attacks can't hurt Luffy without haki
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Didn't Sanji also say his fire is his burning passion? Doesn't Sanji also erupt into flames and control them the angrier he gets.


"Seems like a joke answer" is meaningless. He was asked a clear question, and he answered straight forward. Joke answers have a jokey tone.
 
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Lightbolt

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#10
#10
duckman said:
Oda said it was not haki, it was love. He was asked about it pretty explicitly.


The answer is obvious. He made up CoO later and retrofitted Enels Mantra for it, or he decided to make Manta a wider thing. Either way, it doesn't matter.
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So in universe ‚ does Luffy being hurt by a blunt hakiless attack cause ' love' or that Sanji's Diable Jambe is due to his burning passion make sense ?
 
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duckman

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#11
#11
Lightbolt said:
So in universe ‚ does Luffy being hurt by a blunt hakiless attack cause ' love' or that Sanji's Diable Jambe is due to his burning passion make sense ?
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Right, so I'm not here to back and forth with you. Oda was asked questions, and he has provided the answers. Whether the answers "make sense" or not, is neither here nor there.

Plus, "Oda told a joke once so he is never serious." is quite a take. Oda said: "No, it was love" vs Oda saying "Ahh haha, well erm obviously it's because his heart burns hotter" are two very different tones and trying to equate the is disnegenuous. Good day to you, and enjoy Labor Day weekend.
 
L

Lightbolt

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#13
#13
duckman said:
Right, so I'm not here to back and forth with you. Oda was asked questions, and he has provided the answers. Whether the answers "make sense" or not, is neither here nor there.

Plus, "Oda told a joke once so he is never serious." is quite a take. Oda said: "No, it was love" vs Oda saying "Ahh haha, well erm obviously it's because his heart burns hotter" are two very different tones and trying to equate the is disnegenuous. Good day to you, and enjoy Labor Day weekend.
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Let us just agree to disagree. Just to be sure I get what you are saying...Love punches can bypass devil fruit defenses according to Oda ?
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

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#18
#18
A lot of confusion comes from the fact that in the story, in the first half, many characters didn't even know what Haki was. I really don't think Oda had worked out many details to boot, like how CP9 couldn't hurt Luffy with blunt attacks.

duckman said:
Garp Enies Lobby is very specifically not Haki. Oda was asked and he said no.
Rokushiki is Haki, and a clearer example. That said, it wasn't intended to be Haki when it came out but was rectonned,
It is very obvious that Haki as Haki did not exist by the time of Thriller Bark, especially with BlackBeard telling Ace this:


Haki existing as it does now makes this "Been a while" statement useless.

Shanks in Chapter one, you have to be joking. Might as well argue Batman has Conqueror's Haki. It's a clear retcon, and we can roll with it. If you want to argue that this is 100% haki, then we can poke holes in it all day. Imagine a CoO user fooled by smoke bombs. Lol.
Click to expand...
Blackbeard's power isn't a substitute for Haki, it actually cancels a DF user's power.


duckman said:
Oda said it was not haki, it was love. He was asked about it pretty explicitly.


The answer is obvious. He made up CoO later and retrofitted Enels Mantra for it, or he decided to make Manta a wider thing. Either way, it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
You're looking at someone asking Oda, after he already debuted the concept of Haki, to prove that he hadn't developed the idea back then. That doesn't really work.
 
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