Questions & Mysteries Why people not give Marco enough credit ?

#21
This is legit genuine question I would love if anyone would take time and answer me for this cause i usually don't roam around forums and don't know the perspection of some characters but i recently compared Marco to prime Rayleigh and someone thought they were no where near ?


So here's my understanding on Marco :

- He has been the 2nd mate of a guy that could'v been PK (and that's a fact) so pretty much same position as Rayleigh

- He's probably one of the most experienced people we know of in the story so far he has been since 15 years old (maybe even more) on WB's ship and has seen countless battles and some we know of are the "Summit War" against the marine and the "Payback War" against Blackbear ... (and Haki blooms in battle so experience is huge)

- If everyone believes that Roger vs Whitebeard was a true rivalry which everyone admits to it then how tf ppl treat Marco so far below Rayleigh ? how could the WBP in general matchup to the Roger pirates especially knowing 26 years ago they fought in 3 day and 3 night battle , what is it 1 man show Whitebeard vs Roger Pirates ?

- After the Payback war , the goresei legit said that if Marco won the war he could'v been yonko



And finally my understanding of most characters power level there's an age hierarchy where from 20-40 you're devlepping and could get stronger 40-60 you're at your peak and 60+ you're past your prime and starting to get weaker ... And Marco rn is at 45 so pretty much at his absolute peak



For me Marco rn is exactly Rayleigh at his peak to make a parallel and for me he's a clear cut above the 1st mates of yonko crews (King/Katakuri/Beckman... etc) but a bit weaker than the yonkos and the admirals kinda like Mihawk



So again this is a genuine question maybe i missed something in the story or there's a better explanation for this in the forums but why Marco doesn't get enough credit ?
It´s split up really. There are those that overhype Marco because he took a few top tier attacks, there are those that disregard him because he "only" took a few top tier attacks (both resulting from partial reasoning and arguments), and those that see him for what he is, to which i would count myself to, don´t know if other people would agree or not.

To your specific points:

- Does not mean that the crews are completely equal in each position. Oda makes a pretty obvious distinction between commanders and Vice Captain, which Rayleigh was. Rayleigh was at least hyped up to be somewhat close to Whitebeard by someone in authority, Garp, and at least fought equally with a top tier for a while (even if he was getting tired and would ultimately lose) while stating it would be different in his prime. Plus he made the trolling Kizaru serious, none of the WB Pirates accomplished that.

- Experience does not equal strength. Once again failure to understand a simple statement: "Haki only blooms in extreme situations", it does not mean Haki blooms in every situation. It means if you push yourself in every facet to your most extreme.
Getting crushed by Blackbeard and hurt a bit in Marineford does not equal that.

- We saw what that meant. They were basically fighting mock-up battles and drinking together afterwards.

- The Gorosei never said that, as others mentioned here already, and others and i have done since that chapter came out.
The Gorosei talk about all the forces in the entire world and state that only Yonkou and maybe the WB Pirates led by Marco could stop him in the New World. Put into context, he is talking about the pirate world, the Marines could obviously stop him, but they, at least in that moment, did not meddle too much in the New World. The Revos could stop him, but they had no reason to, only those who either do not want him in power (Yonkou) or those that have a direct vendetta against him (WB Pirates) could do it.
It just means there is no other pirate group in the world who could do it, which, from what we know of the world, holds truth. The Shichibukai do not work together, and invidually, they do not stand a chance (maybe Mihawk but i would not argue for it).
And the Gorosei still make a distinction by stating the Yonkou could definitely and the WB Pirates, a force of 1600 WB Pirates + 43 allied crews, could maybe do it. Yeah it´s not Yonkou hype.
 
#22
Marco is a tier below any version of Rayleigh

Garp praised and compared Ray to WB, now let's see what Garp thinks of Marco :

Imagine Garp treating Rayleigh like that ? It would never happen
Marco got a free shot on every admiral, he couldn't hurt a single of them, imagine Rayleigh not being able to injure them

And that's only feats, Roger regarded Rayleigh as his partner while Marco is "just" another WB's son
Rayleigh is Luffy's mentor, a living legend and easily one of the most respected characters in the verse

Meanwhile no one gives a flying fuck about Marco arriving in Wano, at best he'll stall BM but it still won't be enough
 
#24
This is legit genuine question I would love if anyone would take time and answer me for this cause i usually don't roam around forums and don't know the perspection of some characters but i recently compared Marco to prime Rayleigh and someone thought they were no where near ?


So here's my understanding on Marco :

- He has been the 2nd mate of a guy that could'v been PK (and that's a fact) so pretty much same position as Rayleigh

- He's probably one of the most experienced people we know of in the story so far he has been since 15 years old (maybe even more) on WB's ship and has seen countless battles and some we know of are the "Summit War" against the marine and the "Payback War" against Blackbear ... (and Haki blooms in battle so experience is huge)

- If everyone believes that Roger vs Whitebeard was a true rivalry which everyone admits to it then how tf ppl treat Marco so far below Rayleigh ? how could the WBP in general matchup to the Roger pirates especially knowing 26 years ago they fought in 3 day and 3 night battle , what is it 1 man show Whitebeard vs Roger Pirates ?

- After the Payback war , the goresei legit said that if Marco won the war he could'v been yonko



And finally my understanding of most characters power level there's an age hierarchy where from 20-40 you're devlepping and could get stronger 40-60 you're at your peak and 60+ you're past your prime and starting to get weaker ... And Marco rn is at 45 so pretty much at his absolute peak



For me Marco rn is exactly Rayleigh at his peak to make a parallel and for me he's a clear cut above the 1st mates of yonko crews (King/Katakuri/Beckman... etc) but a bit weaker than the yonkos and the admirals kinda like Mihawk



So again this is a genuine question maybe i missed something in the story or there's a better explanation for this in the forums but why Marco doesn't get enough credit ?
Love the little Mihawk dig at the end lol.
But year Marco gets slept on a lot. I think he is for sure stronger than regular YC1. Still Katakuri is kinda special given he has kings haki and Ben has his hype being his own man even outside of Shanks crew.
At this point the most unimpressive YC1 has to be King.
 
#25
These kind of comments is exactly why i made this thread to just understand "WHY?" you didn't explain any of that you just said old ppl are cooler

Like i really don't get why ppl put the old generation's prime in unreachable level like Akainu could never be strong as Garp , Marco could never be strong as Rayleigh , Kaido/Shanks/BM could never be strong as WB/Roger no matter how hard they tries and so on

like the old guys will always be better and Luffy the main character will pretty much conqueror the GL in a weaker era , i just don't get that logic


I respect the hype for the old gen and they really had their moments but to say that no character could match them and even worse in your case you don't think a character in his prime who had so much experience and prestige in Marco could matchup against Rayleigh who's far past his prime just because ?!?
I'm not powerscaling this just because of his hype, I'm basing this on old Rayleighs slightly better performance vs. Kizaru.
Prime Rayleigh> Old Rayleigh= Kizaru >= Marco.

Marco does NOT have advanced penetration Ryuo, so his haki is vastly inferior. Marco doesn't have CoC, he doesn't have CoO on Rayleighs level either.

Fleet Admiral Akainu has got considerably stronger than where he was when he was getting broken down by a distracted Sickbeard, he hasn't shown prime Garp level strength on panel, but I believe it's possible.

Kaido/Shanks/BM are people who can't reach pirate king level and show their supremacy over the other Yonko.
OldBeard before getting sick was the undisputed strongest of them, he just didn't want to be pirate king, so unless they step up their strength game they aren't reaching healthy OldBeard level, let alone primebeard/prime roger/prime Garp.
 
#26
For me he is top 3 (King, Marco and Shiryu) but he wasn't Whitebeard's strongest subordinate that was Oden, saying Marco is above the rest by a clear cut is incorrect.
 
#28
The reasons why Marco isn't taken seriously (at least by me don't know about others) are :
- Marineford happened
- Jack happened
- Cracker happened
- Katkuri happened
- Queen happened
- King is happening

All these lead me to believe that YCs are ''trash'' and not EOS worthy and since we are nearing the EOS...
 

knuckleheadninja

Homeroom Teacher
#29
I don't think Marco is as strong as Rayleigh but still I consider him above King and Katakuri. Maybe Benn beckmann is stronger or equal to him.

Reason why they hype king

Reason why they hype Katakuri

Reasons why they should hype Marco

 
#31
It´s split up really. There are those that overhype Marco because he took a few top tier attacks, there are those that disregard him because he "only" took a few top tier attacks (both resulting from partial reasoning and arguments), and those that see him for what he is, to which i would count myself to, don´t know if other people would agree or not.

To your specific points:

- Does not mean that the crews are completely equal in each position. Oda makes a pretty obvious distinction between commanders and Vice Captain, which Rayleigh was. Rayleigh was at least hyped up to be somewhat close to Whitebeard by someone in authority, Garp, and at least fought equally with a top tier for a while (even if he was getting tired and would ultimately lose) while stating it would be different in his prime. Plus he made the trolling Kizaru serious, none of the WB Pirates accomplished that.

- Experience does not equal strength. Once again failure to understand a simple statement: "Haki only blooms in extreme situations", it does not mean Haki blooms in every situation. It means if you push yourself in every facet to your most extreme.
Getting crushed by Blackbeard and hurt a bit in Marineford does not equal that.

- We saw what that meant. They were basically fighting mock-up battles and drinking together afterwards.

- The Gorosei never said that, as others mentioned here already, and others and i have done since that chapter came out.
The Gorosei talk about all the forces in the entire world and state that only Yonkou and maybe the WB Pirates led by Marco could stop him in the New World. Put into context, he is talking about the pirate world, the Marines could obviously stop him, but they, at least in that moment, did not meddle too much in the New World. The Revos could stop him, but they had no reason to, only those who either do not want him in power (Yonkou) or those that have a direct vendetta against him (WB Pirates) could do it.
It just means there is no other pirate group in the world who could do it, which, from what we know of the world, holds truth. The Shichibukai do not work together, and invidually, they do not stand a chance (maybe Mihawk but i would not argue for it).
And the Gorosei still make a distinction by stating the Yonkou could definitely and the WB Pirates, a force of 1600 WB Pirates + 43 allied crews, could maybe do it. Yeah it´s not Yonkou hype.

Finally someone that makes some fair points so i will address some,


- Yes it doesn't need to be 1:1 for crews to be rival for example Kidd and Luffy could be rivals but i think Zoro (and maybe Sanji/Jinbei) are stronger than Killer yet I would still put them same tier or at least can hold each other for a longer time if they tried to ...

but let's say that Oden was WB's Vice-Captain since he was calling him brother like Roger calling Rayleigh partner and there's usually a gap between Vice-Captains and the other commanders so young Marco despite being 1st commander he was maybe the 3rd strongest on WB's ship and was not close to Rayleigh but was he at least able to be in the same tier as Scopper and if you think he was 26 years later don't you think he has gotten stronger ?

As for Garp's comments , a Legend is obviously someone that built a name value this is the partner of the Pirate King just like Whitebeard being called the strongest man in the world at his last days while Marco unless his crew accomplish something incredible (like getting the OP) or he splits up to form his own path he would never get as much credit ... Like so many ppl believe that characters like Zoro and Katakuri if they had their own crews they would been way more famous than they are cause they are under the shadow of their captain

Just one more thing about power scaling b4 TS is super inconsistent cause of the lack of Haki and it's insane inconsistency and it could hurt some characters like the portrayal of Doffy/Kata is insane compared to any character b4 TS just because the writing of oda changed and that's obvious

- Yes experience absolutely doesn't mean strength , remember Buggy sailed on the ship of Roger as apprentice and gained experience yet he's nowhere near what Shanks has become for example ... but my point here is that Marco fought these battles as one of the main guys like at least top 3 in his crew at certain times

- So the battle of WBP vs RP was just 4fun and none of them had to hold their own for a period of time ... it's just a shame that oda keeps offscreening this shit over and over or we would have a definitive answer and no one would be asking these questions

- they never said "maybe" so don't highlight that cause i wrote the exact quote from the manga earlier and maybe i'm the one putting too much stock into it





Finally my whole argument from the begging is if Marco could at young age be in the top 3 (as far as we know) for WBP and let's say 1 or 2 tiers below Rayleigh , Scopper and Oden (which would make the matchup grossly unbalanced to RP but fine) at the time but 26 years later and we don't think he got any stronger ? not even a bit ? especially cause most characters peak level has been shown in their 30-50 year old period ...

Anyway thanks for responding properly
 
J

Jo_Ndule

#36
This was hilarious. They considered him an afterthought, lol.

"Oh, by the way, candyman and flying turkey are here as well" :milaugh:
The fact they even talked about Marco and Pero as afterthought really places him in low tier range.
Post automatically merged:

Lol how can you compare Bepo Penguin and Sachi to Marco, Oden, Ace, Vista, Jozu and Thatch
@Chrono is right.

WB crew can't survive without WB in NW

Even freaking Kidd didn't quit or disband his crew after losing to Solid Yonko crew (RHP)

Give Kidd a Yonko crew and Allies, he wouldn't lose badly to Teach /Yonko as Marco.
Marco lost badly despitt having a full veteran crew against pre Yonko Teach force.

Marco is just like Moriah, losers who can't survive NW.


Without BM, Katakuri will suceesuflly lead BMP and they won't disband or quit
Without WB, Ace/Oden would have kept WB crew and territories

Marco can't
 
#37
Marco isn't the original right hand man of Whitebeard. No matter what people say about the Five Elders' conversation, Teach had to conquer lands as well. Marco was never considered a special commander among his peers.

Neither is Katakuri, King or Shiryu. None of them displayed any exceptional portrayal to be placed one level above like Ben Beckman, from reader's perspective.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#38
The difference between Roger's crew and WB's crew at the time. Is the same difference between SHs and Kid and Law's crews.
I understand what you mean by that and Roger crew was indeed stronger at that time compared to WB's.

If we count Oden for WB the difference is not huge but still there but without Oden the difference between WB Crew and Roger crew becomes wider (in roger favors)

But Law crew is so weak....

I think Franky Robin and Brook can solo Law crew.

Without Gaban and Ray no way that Roger crew can stomp WB one. young Marco and co were not scrubs while Law crew is lame.

The gap between WB crew and roger is really smaller than the gap between SH crew and Law crew (and now the SH have Jimbe....)

Even freaking Kidd didn't quit or disband his crew after losing to Solid Yonko crew (RHP)
First the situation is far far from being the same...Comparing the two situations has no sense.

Kid is the captain (the original one).

And obviously Kid has better potential than Marco, the guy is a future Yonko-like and the closest to Luffy among the SN. Kid will be greatness soon.

Give Kidd a Yonko crew and Allies, he wouldn't lose badly to Teach /Yonko as Marco.
Put current Kid in Marco shoes with Marco crew during the payback war and he will lose all the same.

BB is too much.

Marco lost badly despitt having a full veteran crew against pre Yonko Teach force
False again, this was a Yonko force because BB was considered a Yonko because he beat Marco and co.

Marco is just like Moriah, losers who can't survive NW.
Haha love u

Your anti Marco agenda is delicious

And Ace and Oden have obviously more potential/strength than Marco.

LOL at Katakuri and BM pirates (with one arm Smoothie and dead Perospero) doing shit against Teach and his army.
 
#40
Because he suffer defeat after defeat, how can we say he strong to a continually defeated man. It also been mention end of an era. New one replace the one
 
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