Questions & Mysteries Why was Killer nerfed?
- Thread starter ShishioIsBack
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Why don't you focus on actually bring the evidence to show us he was actually nerfed as much as you're implying it to be instead of presenting your own takes on the matter as facts? Or May be it's about time you stop nitpicking and create non-existing excuses to make characters look bad? I bet if Zoro were to be in Killer's shoes, you'd be of one first people to call people biased and blame them for using head-canons because these excuses aren't supposed to make people weak.
Killer is serving the enemies against his will but you need to remember that he's also doing this to keep crew alive so he has every possible reason in the world to fight at his best to save his crew. Okay, If manga made it clear that Killer wasn't himself when he fought Zoro. It shouldn't be hard for you to prove it to us so post this clear evidence of Killer's abnormal behavior during the fight that you spoke of; I'll wait...
And that's supposed to make Killer weak? How? Is he too shy to fight in front of people with his face/laugh or whatever it is exposed? Yet he's been going around murdering people for a while before fighting Zoro?
Killer is serving the enemies against his will but you need to remember that he's also doing this to keep crew alive so he has every possible reason in the world to fight at his best to save his crew. Okay, If manga made it clear that Killer wasn't himself when he fought Zoro. It shouldn't be hard for you to prove it to us so post this clear evidence of Killer's abnormal behavior during the fight that you spoke of; I'll wait...
And that's supposed to make Killer weak? How? Is he too shy to fight in front of people with his face/laugh or whatever it is exposed? Yet he's been going around murdering people for a while before fighting Zoro?
i'd say probably nerfed in terms of:
1- Bandages shown on his arms (his face doesn't matter cause he probably wanted to cover his face with no mask allowed from Orochi)
2- His weapon of choice (if he appeared last chapter with New scythe, I would have changed my mind and said he upgraded his style, but he returned gis his gauntlet, so it's a nerf to me)
3- His will is somewhat wavared (that's what happens when you work for the enemy and obey them to save your captain)
However, smile doesn't reduce your powers on land, if you get powers, u get more powerful, if you get don't get powers, you just smile, and if that smiling part annoys Killer, it should affect his will which is number 3
Now, all that said
I still think Zoro wins if they fight once again with no bullshit nerfing on either side and both go all out
1- Bandages shown on his arms (his face doesn't matter cause he probably wanted to cover his face with no mask allowed from Orochi)
2- His weapon of choice (if he appeared last chapter with New scythe, I would have changed my mind and said he upgraded his style, but he returned gis his gauntlet, so it's a nerf to me)
3- His will is somewhat wavared (that's what happens when you work for the enemy and obey them to save your captain)
However, smile doesn't reduce your powers on land, if you get powers, u get more powerful, if you get don't get powers, you just smile, and if that smiling part annoys Killer, it should affect his will which is number 3
Now, all that said
I still think Zoro wins if they fight once again with no bullshit nerfing on either side and both go all out
Well i dont agree with the people suggesting that, just wanted to add thats its not just about the face :cheers:
That "while" you are mentioning is interesting though. The more time he had to adapt to the weapons, the less difference it should make.
And while it may have been orochi newspaper propaganda, the first time kamazou is mentioned he is called "infamous" and is dubbed "the man with the scythe"
That "while" you are mentioning is interesting though. The more time he had to adapt to the weapons, the less difference it should make.
And while it may have been orochi newspaper propaganda, the first time kamazou is mentioned he is called "infamous" and is dubbed "the man with the scythe"
Personally I'd find it to be really poor character writing that a Killer without his crew, without his usual weapons, without a mask to cover his face and forced to hear over and over the very laugh that traumatized him were able to fight at his fullest capabilities. That's like ignoring the impact of your mood, psychology and experiences on your performance.
To be fair and if we look at the narrative + if we look at the character dynamics, Killer was slightly nerf.
Now that we have a full scope of the Kamazou/killer situation we have to look at what Oda done.
Concernig Killer:
-Oda gave Killer two scythes which are curves blades like his rotating blades
-Oda allowed Killer to keep his spinning and acrobatic style
-Killer was using the scythes for a few weeks, he did not just grab them on the fly
-Oda gave Killer a smile but never portrayed the smile to weakened people physically or mentally
Concerning Zoro:
-Zoro has only 2 swords
-Zoro did not have his strongest sword
-Zoro was fighting against Gyukimaru prior to that
Concerning the fight :
-The two characters spared equally for a time being
-Zoro called Killer « strong ». Reminder that Zoro considered a vet Level character like Pica to not be on his level at all. Which means that Killer is supposed to be seen on Nittoryu Zoro level
-Zoro never used a Nittoryu or Ittoryu named attack during the fight (and we know that he has powerful ones).
-Thanks to the scythe and Gyukimaru intervention Killer succeed to hit Zoro with a powerful two hands swing
-Zoro managed, by flexing his muscles, to keep the scythe in him and then showcase a powerful display of his bladesmanship to used the scythe efficiently to produced a Santoryu attack who end the fight.
So what Oda tried to portray here?
That the both of them where nerfed, that Killer is strong but that Zoro is stronger. Exactly like their respective Captain. Simple as that
Now that we have a full scope of the Kamazou/killer situation we have to look at what Oda done.
Concernig Killer:
-Oda gave Killer two scythes which are curves blades like his rotating blades
-Oda allowed Killer to keep his spinning and acrobatic style
-Killer was using the scythes for a few weeks, he did not just grab them on the fly
-Oda gave Killer a smile but never portrayed the smile to weakened people physically or mentally
Concerning Zoro:
-Zoro has only 2 swords
-Zoro did not have his strongest sword
-Zoro was fighting against Gyukimaru prior to that
Concerning the fight :
-The two characters spared equally for a time being
-Zoro called Killer « strong ». Reminder that Zoro considered a vet Level character like Pica to not be on his level at all. Which means that Killer is supposed to be seen on Nittoryu Zoro level
-Zoro never used a Nittoryu or Ittoryu named attack during the fight (and we know that he has powerful ones).
-Thanks to the scythe and Gyukimaru intervention Killer succeed to hit Zoro with a powerful two hands swing
-Zoro managed, by flexing his muscles, to keep the scythe in him and then showcase a powerful display of his bladesmanship to used the scythe efficiently to produced a Santoryu attack who end the fight.
So what Oda tried to portray here?
That the both of them where nerfed, that Killer is strong but that Zoro is stronger. Exactly like their respective Captain. Simple as that
Maybe because he never ran into weapons as good as big scythes, was he ever in the major blade producing country?
If he likes them so much then why did he pick the big scythes up to begin with?
Seems to me like you are cornered so you are trolling.
You haven't addressed my point. If he likes Sickles more than scythes, why did he pick them up only after he lost 1 scythe
@Owl Ki @Admiral Lee Hung do you guys have an answer?
You do understand main purpose of feeding someone SMILE is to make them stronger
Headliners don't get fed smile so that they can get weaker lol, that makes negative sense.
Perhaps after SMILE failed, Orochi gave him second best alternative, which is upgrading weapons.
If he likes them so much then why did he pick the big scythes up to begin with?
Seems to me like you are cornered so you are trolling.
You haven't addressed my point. If he likes Sickles more than scythes, why did he pick them up only after he lost 1 scythe
@Owl Ki @Admiral Lee Hung do you guys have an answer?
You do understand main purpose of feeding someone SMILE is to make them stronger
Headliners don't get fed smile so that they can get weaker lol, that makes negative sense.
Perhaps after SMILE failed, Orochi gave him second best alternative, which is upgrading weapons.
If you took Zoro’s katanas away and gave him 3 standard pirate swords, is he nerfed? In my opinion, the answer is yes. Zoro’s 3 katanas are of a much higher caliber than your standard pirate sword, and therefore Zoro with his 3 katanas is going to be stronger than Zoro if he were to be fighting with 3 run of the mill swords. Sure any blade can become a black blade, but Mihawk with Yoru is going to mid diff Mihawk with Bastille’s sword lol.
However, Even if we agree on the above, with Killer, this analogy falls flat for 2 reasons:
1. We don’t know if Killer’s wrist scythes are stronger than the scythes he got from Orochi. Orochi’s scythes could very well be very high quality weapons assuming they were made in Wano which has had a history for high caliber sword smiths, and thus they could be superior weapons to his standard wrist scythes.
2. Killer’s wrist scythes and Kamazou’s Wano scythes are fundamentally different weapons. Unlike the Zoro analogy where Zoro is just switching his katanas for 3 weaker versions of the same weapon, Killed is picking up different weapons from the ones he seems to prefer using. This doesn’t mean that Killer is weaker with Wano scythes than he is with the wrist scythes, but at the very least he seems to like his wrist scythes better.
So really any opinion is valid here and we need more information to say, but I would argue that he was at least slightly nerfed, as like I said above he does seem to prefer his wrist scythes to his Wano ones, and I think that is going to be the difference maker tbh.
So I vote for slightly nerfed.
However, Even if we agree on the above, with Killer, this analogy falls flat for 2 reasons:
1. We don’t know if Killer’s wrist scythes are stronger than the scythes he got from Orochi. Orochi’s scythes could very well be very high quality weapons assuming they were made in Wano which has had a history for high caliber sword smiths, and thus they could be superior weapons to his standard wrist scythes.
2. Killer’s wrist scythes and Kamazou’s Wano scythes are fundamentally different weapons. Unlike the Zoro analogy where Zoro is just switching his katanas for 3 weaker versions of the same weapon, Killed is picking up different weapons from the ones he seems to prefer using. This doesn’t mean that Killer is weaker with Wano scythes than he is with the wrist scythes, but at the very least he seems to like his wrist scythes better.
So really any opinion is valid here and we need more information to say, but I would argue that he was at least slightly nerfed, as like I said above he does seem to prefer his wrist scythes to his Wano ones, and I think that is going to be the difference maker tbh.
So I vote for slightly nerfed.
The whole issue with Killer preferring his original weapons is that, why not keep using them the entire time and only pull them out after he lost one of his scythes?
I mean is it not possible that he found weapons he simply liked more than the weapons he he been using his whole life? People upgrade things right?
I mean is it not possible that he found weapons he simply liked more than the weapons he he been using his whole life? People upgrade things right?
It's possible... but I'm MORE inclined to believe that just like his mask was TAKEN OFF from him... and Kidd even pointed out that Killer doesn't like to show his face when he laughes... and we can all guess that the bandages on his face... he put them on to cover it...
so in the same line, it's more safe to assume that his gauntlets were taken away from him.... the same way the Nidai was taken away from Luffy... and Luffy probably got it back once he controlled Udon Prison...
So it's very likely that Killer and Kidd when they were heading to get back the crew... Killer also headed to the place where his Mask + gauntlets were saved... and he took them back....
Otherwise... just like you may assume that he favored the scythe... why wouldn't he get ANOTHER dual scythe??? There are TONS of weapons gather from the alliance now! I bet there must be lots of spears.. scythe.. and different weapons there... right?
Also, the mask itself is somewhat an indication that he was stripped of his personal "accessories"... which makes it MORE LIKELY that his weapon was among those things
so in the same line, it's more safe to assume that his gauntlets were taken away from him.... the same way the Nidai was taken away from Luffy... and Luffy probably got it back once he controlled Udon Prison...
So it's very likely that Killer and Kidd when they were heading to get back the crew... Killer also headed to the place where his Mask + gauntlets were saved... and he took them back....
Otherwise... just like you may assume that he favored the scythe... why wouldn't he get ANOTHER dual scythe??? There are TONS of weapons gather from the alliance now! I bet there must be lots of spears.. scythe.. and different weapons there... right?
Also, the mask itself is somewhat an indication that he was stripped of his personal "accessories"... which makes it MORE LIKELY that his weapon was among those things
The only thing we really know about his fighting strength, 13 years after being introduced, is based on that fight. All we know about Killer vs named characters is that his strength is to the extent that Zoro can F him with his own D
What you're saying is like trying to talk about Page One's strength but oh let's avoid Sanji please
What you're saying is like trying to talk about Page One's strength but oh let's avoid Sanji please
And yet the only freaking way to know that is how good he looks in a fight. He managed to have a tough fight against a pretty strong character and got off a shot he wouldn't be able to get just off skill alone.
You want to say how strong someone is, but not based on the results. This is a world where the guy who gets his arm chopped off goes on to become the highest tier, pay attention to what the manga shows you please.
You want to say how strong someone is, but not based on the results. This is a world where the guy who gets his arm chopped off goes on to become the highest tier, pay attention to what the manga shows you please.
:namiriously: