Future Events Why ZKK narratively makes sense.

#61
Also I’m pretty sure the whole “finding the true history of the world and toppling the World Government” will leave Kaido’s death in the dust...
In the contrary of it... If wano is the keystone of this void century and all these mysteries, its opening will be recalled by the next generations in an antagonist way as it is always with the winner's history that they wrote, and in here Kaido will play a big role
 
#66
That doesn't work because he wants to die in a way he'll be remembered. Dying in the battle that liberated the Country of Wano, at the hands of the men who will go on to become the Future Pirate King and World's Strongest Swordsman will give him exactly what he wants. To take away Kaido's dream he either doesn't die, or he dies a dogs death where he'll be forgotten. This battle to liberate Wano is going to be a pivotal moment in the story where news of it rings throughout the World.
No, that's completely wrong.
We as readers know that Luffy will become the Pirate King and Zoro the WSS. But Kaido isn't aware of this.

Kaido is made aware of the arrival of Luffy, Zoro, Kidd, and Killer in 982 and yet announces the "New Onigashima Project" in 984 which is completely unrelated to Scabbard/Worst Gen invasion.

Then in 985, we learn that Kaido and Big Mom are allying to go claim the one piece. They are going to turn Wano into a "pirate empire in preparation for the coming world war".
The world war to which he refers to isn't the war that the Scabbards and Worst Gen are creating right now.
The alliance is going to defeat Kaido before he is able to start the World War he wishes for and in turn, destroying his dream of a grand death.

It's completely obvious that this whole Scabbards and Worst Gen issue isn't what Kaido is seeking and dying due to this conflict certainly won't be the grand death in the "world war" he was wishing for.
So this argument stays valid.
 
F

Formerly Seth

#68
he is the only one who had the big grudge toward kaido.
plot twist should be there.
i mean who thought kaido getting stabbed by kinemon and kiku?
who thought big mom enters o lin mode?
Ok but I don't believe Oda would want 90% of his fans to hate him for giving Momo moments like this + this is fucking impossible.

Shinobu can't mature your Haki.

Momo sucks ass and I hope Yamato kills him by an accident.
 
#69
Enel wanted to go to Fairy Vearth. He’s still there after 2 years.
But did Enel really go where he wanted to go? His idea of Fairy Vearth stemmed from the Vearth that was found on Skypiea. The lush green landscape filled with trees and rich soil. That all came from the Blues and not the moon, which Enel was mistaken about. Did he find that when he reached the moon? No, what he found when he got there was a barren and desolate landscape with a bunch of Automatronics and hieroglyphics that pointed him back to the direction of Earth. What Enel did was essentially maroon himself as far away from the real Fairy Vearth as he possibly could have.
 
#71
No, that's completely wrong.
We as readers know that Luffy will become the Pirate King and Zoro the WSS. But Kaido isn't aware of this.

Kaido is made aware of the arrival of Luffy, Zoro, Kidd, and Killer in 982 and yet announces the "New Onigashima Project" in 984 which is completely unrelated to Scabbard/Worst Gen invasion.

Then in 985, we learn that Kaido and Big Mom are allying to go claim the one piece. They are going to turn Wano into a "pirate empire in preparation for the coming world war".
The world war to which he refers to isn't the war that the Scabbards and Worst Gen are creating right now.
The alliance is going to defeat Kaido before he is able to start the World War he wishes for and in turn, destroying his dream of a grand death.

It's completely obvious that this whole Scabbards and Worst Gen issue isn't what Kaido is seeking and dying due to this conflict certainly won't be the grand death in the "world war" he was wishing for.
So this argument stays valid.
What does it matter what we the readers know? It's still going to happen, and when it does, when people speak about Wano's liberation in the years to come they won't say "Kaido died by some lowly pirates in that battle." They will say "This is the battle where the Strongest Creature on the planet met his demise at the hands of the Pirate Kings crew."

And Kaido doesn't want to die in the World War, he just wants to die a grand death. He just believes that a war that engulfs the World will give him that, because he's tried countless amounts of other times to die and failed every single time. It doesn't matter where he achieves it. And dying in the battle to liberate Wano will give him just that.
 

BangOO🍅

Pepebusi Spammer
#72
Ok but I don't believe Oda would want 90% of his fans to hate him for giving Momo moments like this + this is fucking impossible.

Shinobu can't mature your Haki.

Momo sucks ass and I hope Yamato kills him by an accident.
this is why puting a hope too high can lead to high disappointment.
i mean Momo will be shogun of wano in the end of the day.
the only thing he should show to us is either conqueror haki bloom, killing/hurt orochi or hurting Kaido with both of his father's swords.
 
#73
Why ZKK narratively makes sense.

I've seen countless theories as to why ZKK (Zoro Killing Kaido) will happen and I've noticed a lot of them rely on evidence from external sources such as the OP Magazines, WSJ cover, and the dragon and tiger trope.
Although this is perfectly good evidence for the most part, I think there is enough evidence in Wano alone to suggest that Zoro will play a significant role in killing Kaido alongside Luffy.

In Act I:
→ Zoro meets back with Luffy.
→ Zoro then gets lost.

Why is Zoro lost ?

Oda needed a way to:
a) create a personal and emotional reason for Zoro to be invested in the war and ...
b) he wanted to give Zoro a legitimate reason to use one of Oden's blades instead of Shusui.

In Act II:

→ He meets Yasu and the rest of Ebisu town.
→ Gets Shusui stolen.
→ Meets Hiyori.
→ Witnesses Yasu's death. (fulfills part a)
→ Gets told that Shusui is a national treasure and should use Enma instead which he agrees to. (fulfills part b)

→ We see the panel of "For 20 long years, no one has been able to take Kaido's head" with Zoro's head clearly included. (942)
→ Zoro goes after Orochi but fails to kill/defeat him.

- He wants to "avenge" Yasu.
- He cannot forgive Orochi.

Why does Oda want to replace Shusui with Enma ?

Oda needed a way to:
c) have Zoro inherit Oden's will
d) and to give Zoro an Excellent-Grade sword which isn't black, so that he makes it black himself.

Ch. 953:

Enters Kawamatsu. His flashback reveals that:
- "When a companion dies, you take his sword and continue onward!!!" The companion who died would be Oden and Zoro would be the one continuing onward.
- "The soul that resides in a katana makes a samurai strong, and enables him to destroy his enemies!!!". The soul would be Oden's and it helps Zoro be stronger.
- The battle between Wano and the Animal Kingdom Pirates is not over and the swords shall not sleep yet.
- "Coincidentally", Hiyori proposes to give Zoro Enma. "The only one to have ever wounded Kaido". (And I expect an explanation later on as to why Enma is stated to be the only one to have hurt Kaido when both Enma and Ame-no-Habakiri seem to be used)

Ch. 954:

- Zoro accepts to replace Shusui with Enma due to Hiyori.

Ch. 955:

- It was assumed that Hiyori had died
- Hitetsu reveals to have waited 20 years to "bequeath" (leave (a personal estate or one's body) to a person or other beneficiary by a will) Enma and Ame-no-Habakiri to both Momo and Hiyori which then is inherited by Zoro.
- Enma is revealed to "split the earth to the bottom of hell".
- Zoro now possesses Enma (fulfills part c)
- Enma is stated to exude its wielder's Ryuo (flowing haki, 流桜, Flowing Cherry Blossoms) on its own, which is coincidentally the same haki Luffy is learning to use to be able to hurt Kaido and also happens to be the same haki which the scabbards used to cut/pierce Kaido.
- Hitetsu brings up the prospect of Zoro forging the black blade and potentially raising the rank. (fulfills part d)
- The chapter ends with the editors note saying "Inherited will".

It is not a coincidence that right after the explanation of companions picking up the swords of fellow samurai in Kawamatsu's flashback, this exact principle happens with Zoro picking up/receiving Enma.
Now, it is obvious that Zoro picks up from where Oden left off by picking up his blade, but ...

Where exactly did Oden leave off ? And what exactly was his goal ?

In Act III:

Enter the Oden flashback.
→ Oden reiterates the point that Orochi is a cowardly fool but goes to stop him directly just like Zoro did in Act II and fails as well. (968)
→ After hearing that Orochi gave Hyogoro to Kaido, Oden decides to strike down Kaido instead, the root of all the problems. (969)
→ Oden reveals he was on his way to cut off Kaido's head.(970)
→ Right when Oden goes in for the last and presumably the final attack, he is shown Momonosuke and is defeated by Kaido. (970)
→ Oden is dead and it is now up to his companions (his future ones) to finish the job he started (972)

Oden's goal of cutting off Kaido's head will be completed by Zoro as it's now up to the new wielder of the blade to continue what Oden started.

→ Zoro explicitly states that if him and Luffy take damage early on, they won't last to fight Kaido. Which confirms the fact that Zoro will be involved in the fight against Kaido. (980)
→ Kaido's presence is stated to be similar to Hell. (984)
This is an important fact since it corroborates with the fact that Enma is the sword that cuts the earth to the bottom of hell.

→ Shinobu states that Oden "knew that Vanquishing Orochi would change nothing!! Even 20 years ago, the true enemy was Kaido!!!" (986)
This establishes that even for Oden, even though Orochi is the one whom he hates, the true enemy is Kaido.
Similarly, for Zoro Orochi is the one to have killed Yasu, but yet Kaido remains the true enemy he plans on fighting.

Now, all these plot lines don't mean that Zoro will be fighting Kaido one-on-one, this remains a group effort. The biggest mystery so far is how Oda will be able to have Luffy deliver the biggest hit to Kaido (since he is the MC) and have Zoro kill Kaido without taking away from Luffy.

Why is an Orochi fight unlikely ? (Assuming Orochi isn't dead)

→ Orochi is a snake and not a dragon, as confirmed by his fruit reveal in 933.
→ Ame-no-Habakiri quite literally means "Snake slayer" and as such I expect it to be used in the slaying of Orochi rather than Enma.
→ Zoro doesn't possess Ame-no-Habakiri, Momo is the one who possesses it.

What about King or the calamities ?

From what I've read so far, Zoro hasn't been foreshadowed to fight a single calamity. This doesn't mean it's impossible he fights them, but it decreases the likelihood.
With Sanji seemingly being the one to fight King (988), I expect Zoro to fight a significantly weaker opponent than a calamity as a warm up to the Kaido fight. If Zoro is to clash with any of the calamities, I don't expect it to turn into a long 1 v 1 fight.
Zoro (and the other strong members of the alliance) should be conserving their strength for the Kaido fight and I expect them to be kept away from the plot with small things such as gifters and etc.

I'm open to hear ideas that challenge these notions.

Thanks in advance.
Also interesting is that in a way, Zoro versus killer is very similar to the fight of Oden vs. Kaido. In the fight with killer, Zoro was caught off guard by the bridge bandit and as a result he received an almost mortal wound. You can say that this is similar to Oden vs. Kaido where Oden was caught off guard when the old lady transformed into Momo and as a result, he lost the fight.

This is very important because I see an element of a situation similar to those two happening once more.

But now, Oda laid the foundation for Zoro to always be aware of his surroundings and understand that their could be potential outside forces that try to disrupt a 1v1 fight.

Zoro even showed growth when he was fighting Gyukimari the second time and Kawamatsu slinged his sword at Zoro which he would deflect while engaged with Gyuki.

Could there again be a situation when Zoro is in the shoes of Oden but an outside force tries to save Kaidou? Who knows but there could be foreshadowing for it.
 
F

Formerly Seth

#74
this is puting a hope tol high can lead to high disappointment.
i mean Momo will be shogun of wano in the end of the day.
the only thing he should show to us is either conqueror haki bloom, killing/hurt orochi or hurting Kaido with both of his father's swords.
The only way I can accept this bitch doing something is if Zunisha transforms into Megazord and Momo jumps in to order it from inside.
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#78
We just have to look at Oden and see the clear parallel portrayed with Zoro and Enma and his legendary training

These aspects alone can enter our minds for a fast resolution of what's awaiting the Grandmaster~
 
#79
Eh ? He killed the magistrate killer at the start of wano.
I don't think it was ever stated that Zoro killed him. He slashed him, but often times wounds like that aren't fatal in one piece.
Post automatically merged:

Also, there is not a single major arc I can think of where Zoro defeats the main antagonist. Luffy is the main character and he will always get the final hit on the main villain.
 
#80
What does it matter what we the readers know? It's still going to happen, and when it does, when people speak about Wano's liberation in the years to come they won't say "Kaido died by some lowly pirates in that battle." They will say "This is the battle where the Strongest Creature on the planet met his demise at the hands of the Pirate Kings crew."

And Kaido doesn't want to die in the World War, he just wants to die a grand death. He just believes that a war that engulfs the World will give him that, because he's tried countless amounts of other times to die and failed every single time. It doesn't matter where he achieves it. And dying in the battle to liberate Wano will give him just that.
You can't retroactively apply stuff like that. You can't say because in the future, Luffy and Zoro will become PK and WSS, that Kaido's death now will be a grand one by default. It's a terrible argument.

The war Kaido intends to die in, isn't this war.
He wishes to die in the World War while going after the One Piece, Wano is meant to be a preparatory stage for this upcoming war.
However, the Wano war will be the war in which he dies.

If the Wano war is the "World War" he seeks, then he wouldn't have an entire plan based off leaving Wano, seizing the Ancient Weapons and claiming the One Piece.
He quite literally says "We are turning this country into a pirate empire in preparation for the coming world war!!"

If he dies during the preparation stage of his "World War", against the Alliance. He will not be dying a grand death.
You can only retroactively say he died a grand death once Luffy and Zoro have achieved their goals of PK and WSS.

But at the moment of his death in Wano, he will have simply just died to an Alliance of Samurai and Worst Gen Pirates, he will not regard is as a grand death at all.
 
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