Future Events Why Zoro and Sanji will face Calamities
- Thread starter KiriNigiri
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Also fact that someone as pathetic as Katakuri a literal basement dwelling donut eating ugly fuck with no ambition has CoC only diminishes CoCs worth.
The moment it was revealed Katakuri has CoC, it lost any remaining legitimacy it has.
At this point it wouldn't even make a difference if Page One has it. Page One isn't any less qualified than Katakuri is anyways
The moment it was revealed Katakuri has CoC, it lost any remaining legitimacy it has.
At this point it wouldn't even make a difference if Page One has it. Page One isn't any less qualified than Katakuri is anyways
You're either a bad reader, a YC wanker, or plain out smoking some fine dick if you think Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe will not each take on a Yonko commander this arc. These flying 6 bitches are seemingly saved for second fiddles like Kawamatsu, Ashura, Denjiro, Killer or even Robin etc...
YCs won't provide any challenge for Zoro and Sanji after Wano, their new milestones are Kizaru and Ryokugyu. Those who think the calamities are too much obviously lack reading skills or completely skipped Water 7 saga.
YCs won't provide any challenge for Zoro and Sanji after Wano, their new milestones are Kizaru and Ryokugyu. Those who think the calamities are too much obviously lack reading skills or completely skipped Water 7 saga.
Preamble
We're roughly 70 chapters deep into Wano, and the fighting portion of the arc has now commenced. Many believe this will be Zoro's and Sanji's opportunity to finally show what they are made of. I will be breaking down some points as to why they will and should fight Calamities in this war. Those being King and Queen in particular.
1. The Dynamic
From the outset, the first thing that got readers thinking King and Queen would face the monster duo are their introduction. Their spat and bad blood reminiscent not just of Zoro and Sanji, but some of their past opponents as well.
King and Queen possess traits akin to Zoro and Sanji as well. Queen being the eccentric womanizer and chain smoker, while King is the stoic swordsman with a ton of pride.
2. Preliminary matchups
During the second act of the Wano arc, Oda has been carefully building Zoro and Sanji up towards their inevitable fights. It's clear after the effort Luffy took to bring down two commanders during WCI, some ground work had to be laid out. And while it wasn't as extensive as Luffy, Oda managed it by giving them preliminary fights.Those being Killer and P1.
Starting with P1, Sanji resorted to his power up. While the result of the match was dubious, Sanji demonstrated more control during the fight. This was also him testing the suit out, and not really going all out.
Next is Zoro vs Killer, aka, Kamazou. While the results aren't as ambiguous, circumstances towards it were. Questions are raised whether Killer was fighting to his best potential. Those debates aside, Zoro wasn't in the best of condition either, missing a sword and being hungry, suggested so by his demand to Hiyori to feed him food and sake once he beats Killer.
Zoro was also in a 2v1 situation when he was struck by Killer.
Despite all this working against him, Zoro was capable of not only taking Killer's weapon from him, he also struck him down with a Santoryu move using a weapon he has never used before.
These matchups in particular are interesting as P1 and Killer should represent the spectrum right under Yonko Commanders. With Sanji having the upper hand in his fight, and Zoro decisively winning his, these levels of fighters don't represent an extreme challenge for Zoro or Sanji to outstrip.
The second set of matchups they had weren't as elaborate, but they paint a picture. The next time we see Zoro and Sanji fight someone, they are Kyoshiro (Denjiro) and X Drake.
Starting with Zoro vs Kyoshiro. Zoro was stated to be putting up a good fight against Kyoshiro, as stated by Kyoshiro's men.
Kyoshiro did not put his all into that clash, however, we know Zoro wasn't either due to only having two swords and not resorting to haki. However, the brief exchange they had, as well as Kyoshiro's men's comments, implies the two are of striking distance to each other.
The next is Sanji vs X Drake. While Sanji did not look as good against Drake, he still manage to take attacks from him quite well. Half of the clash also saw Sanji having to take Toko's safety into consideration, while Drake was only focused on Sanji.
Sanji did not rely on the RS during this scuffle, so it's safe to say he wasn't trying his hardest to beat Drake.
Now lets go into explaining who Kyoshiro and Drake are. Starting with Kyoshiro. He is the Yakuza boss for the Kyoshiro family, and secretly Denjiro of the 9 Red Scabbards. Denjiro was singled out by Kin'emon as one of 3 powerful samurai whom the alliance had to recruit. The other two samurai include Ashura Douji and Kawamatsu. The former having not only scarred a Calamity, but mocked them as but merely a subordinate.
This same Ashura Douji even cautioned everyone about Kyoshiro, labeling him a "demon with the blade" when it was thought he was an enemy to the Alliance.
Onward to X Drake, his clout speaks for itself. He was a former Rear Admiral for the Marines, now Worst Gen pirate. He managed to climb the ranks of the Beast Pirates during the 2 year timeskip and make it to the Rank of Flying Six, or Tobi Roppo.
In the most recent chapter where all Tobi Roppo were introduced, the question came up as to who would replace Queen as a Calamity. This appears allude the Tobi Roppo to rank just below the Calamities. Drake in particular was singled out as a potential candidate.
These various instances imply Kyoshiro and Drake are just below, if not, borderline of where the Calamity sit, strength-wise. And Zoro and Sanji clashed with such characters relatively early in the arc. And before their real preparations. Speaking of which.
3. Preparations
Despite the earlier scuffles, Zoro's and Sanji's available showings in Wano doesn't represent what they are currently capable of. Before the War, there was a period for preparations.
We'll start with Zoro who is the most apparent. Zoro received the legendary blade Enma and spent the remaining days of the raid (5 to be precise) training with the sword, which he claims will make him stronger once he gets use to it.
Sanji isn't made as obvious, but he did mention Usopp and Franky modifying the Raid Suit just before his clash with P1 got off-paneled.
Modifying the suit doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna get better, but the point is, Oda suggest the suit will change next time we see it. There wouldn't be a need to change it if it didn't get upgraded in any way. Usopp and Franky have also had more than a week to work on a blueprint for a redesign.
With the Alliance heading to war, it is logical to assume everyone made the necessary effort to best prepare for it. In short, Zoro and Sanji have a starting cap going into the war higher than when they set foot in Wano.
4. Dramaticism
Tension makes battles more interesting. Zoro and Sanji have already clashed and even bested some characters who rank just below the Calamities prior to the big war. For all this planning to amount to battles against relatively minor antagonists like the Tobi Roppo would not satisfy the build up put into this war and their involvement in it. Luffy considered Sanji a valued asset combat wise during Zou, and was one of his major reasons for even going to Big Mom's territory in order to get him back.
For Zoro, he is the only swordsman on the alliance to have tamed Enma. A feat only performed by Kozuki Oden. Arguably the second strongest swordsman Wano has ever produced. This puts Zoro's narrative and strength potential this arc far higher than all the Scabbards. Of which include the likes of fighters who pressed a Calamity Jack.
In previous arcs, there would be build up to how formidable the enemies will be for the Strawhats. An air of uncertainty as to whether they could win. Oda created this atmosphere around Luffy and Kaido. But even prior to that, a notable example would be during Enies Lobby/Water 7 when Zoro and Sanji had clashes with CP9 agents and did less than flattering on their first encounters.
Take this clash for instance.
The interaction with Blueno set CP9's threat level, Sanji barely being able to injure Blueno. The 4th strongest CP9 agent. Sanji would then proceed to challenge someone more than 3 times stronger than Blueno in Jabra. The stakes and tension for that fight high as Sanji was last seen struggling against somebody who forced his captain to use his power up and who he struggled to even damage. Sanji would defeat Jabra, creating catharsis through him overcoming a wall that was thought out of his reach not long ago. The Calamities similarly representing that wall he and Zoro should strive to surpass at the current stage of the story.
One Piece is on the verge of ending, and Wano represents a major series milestone. Just as how Luffy shall cement himself on the level of the Emperors, his strongest fighters will solidify themselves on par with the top executives of Emperor crews.
We're roughly 70 chapters deep into Wano, and the fighting portion of the arc has now commenced. Many believe this will be Zoro's and Sanji's opportunity to finally show what they are made of. I will be breaking down some points as to why they will and should fight Calamities in this war. Those being King and Queen in particular.
1. The Dynamic
From the outset, the first thing that got readers thinking King and Queen would face the monster duo are their introduction. Their spat and bad blood reminiscent not just of Zoro and Sanji, but some of their past opponents as well.
King and Queen possess traits akin to Zoro and Sanji as well. Queen being the eccentric womanizer and chain smoker, while King is the stoic swordsman with a ton of pride.
2. Preliminary matchups
During the second act of the Wano arc, Oda has been carefully building Zoro and Sanji up towards their inevitable fights. It's clear after the effort Luffy took to bring down two commanders during WCI, some ground work had to be laid out. And while it wasn't as extensive as Luffy, Oda managed it by giving them preliminary fights.Those being Killer and P1.
Starting with P1, Sanji resorted to his power up. While the result of the match was dubious, Sanji demonstrated more control during the fight. This was also him testing the suit out, and not really going all out.
Next is Zoro vs Killer, aka, Kamazou. While the results aren't as ambiguous, circumstances towards it were. Questions are raised whether Killer was fighting to his best potential. Those debates aside, Zoro wasn't in the best of condition either, missing a sword and being hungry, suggested so by his demand to Hiyori to feed him food and sake once he beats Killer.
Zoro was also in a 2v1 situation when he was struck by Killer.
Despite all this working against him, Zoro was capable of not only taking Killer's weapon from him, he also struck him down with a Santoryu move using a weapon he has never used before.
These matchups in particular are interesting as P1 and Killer should represent the spectrum right under Yonko Commanders. With Sanji having the upper hand in his fight, and Zoro decisively winning his, these levels of fighters don't represent an extreme challenge for Zoro or Sanji to outstrip.
The second set of matchups they had weren't as elaborate, but they paint a picture. The next time we see Zoro and Sanji fight someone, they are Kyoshiro (Denjiro) and X Drake.
Starting with Zoro vs Kyoshiro. Zoro was stated to be putting up a good fight against Kyoshiro, as stated by Kyoshiro's men.
Kyoshiro did not put his all into that clash, however, we know Zoro wasn't either due to only having two swords and not resorting to haki. However, the brief exchange they had, as well as Kyoshiro's men's comments, implies the two are of striking distance to each other.
The next is Sanji vs X Drake. While Sanji did not look as good against Drake, he still manage to take attacks from him quite well. Half of the clash also saw Sanji having to take Toko's safety into consideration, while Drake was only focused on Sanji.
Sanji did not rely on the RS during this scuffle, so it's safe to say he wasn't trying his hardest to beat Drake.
Now lets go into explaining who Kyoshiro and Drake are. Starting with Kyoshiro. He is the Yakuza boss for the Kyoshiro family, and secretly Denjiro of the 9 Red Scabbards. Denjiro was singled out by Kin'emon as one of 3 powerful samurai whom the alliance had to recruit. The other two samurai include Ashura Douji and Kawamatsu. The former having not only scarred a Calamity, but mocked them as but merely a subordinate.
This same Ashura Douji even cautioned everyone about Kyoshiro, labeling him a "demon with the blade" when it was thought he was an enemy to the Alliance.
Onward to X Drake, his clout speaks for itself. He was a former Rear Admiral for the Marines, now Worst Gen pirate. He managed to climb the ranks of the Beast Pirates during the 2 year timeskip and make it to the Rank of Flying Six, or Tobi Roppo.
In the most recent chapter where all Tobi Roppo were introduced, the question came up as to who would replace Queen as a Calamity. This appears allude the Tobi Roppo to rank just below the Calamities. Drake in particular was singled out as a potential candidate.
These various instances imply Kyoshiro and Drake are just below, if not, borderline of where the Calamity sit, strength-wise. And Zoro and Sanji clashed with such characters relatively early in the arc. And before their real preparations. Speaking of which.
3. Preparations
Despite the earlier scuffles, Zoro's and Sanji's available showings in Wano doesn't represent what they are currently capable of. Before the War, there was a period for preparations.
We'll start with Zoro who is the most apparent. Zoro received the legendary blade Enma and spent the remaining days of the raid (5 to be precise) training with the sword, which he claims will make him stronger once he gets use to it.
Sanji isn't made as obvious, but he did mention Usopp and Franky modifying the Raid Suit just before his clash with P1 got off-paneled.
Modifying the suit doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna get better, but the point is, Oda suggest the suit will change next time we see it. There wouldn't be a need to change it if it didn't get upgraded in any way. Usopp and Franky have also had more than a week to work on a blueprint for a redesign.
With the Alliance heading to war, it is logical to assume everyone made the necessary effort to best prepare for it. In short, Zoro and Sanji have a starting cap going into the war higher than when they set foot in Wano.
4. Dramaticism
Tension makes battles more interesting. Zoro and Sanji have already clashed and even bested some characters who rank just below the Calamities prior to the big war. For all this planning to amount to battles against relatively minor antagonists like the Tobi Roppo would not satisfy the build up put into this war and their involvement in it. Luffy considered Sanji a valued asset combat wise during Zou, and was one of his major reasons for even going to Big Mom's territory in order to get him back.
For Zoro, he is the only swordsman on the alliance to have tamed Enma. A feat only performed by Kozuki Oden. Arguably the second strongest swordsman Wano has ever produced. This puts Zoro's narrative and strength potential this arc far higher than all the Scabbards. Of which include the likes of fighters who pressed a Calamity Jack.
In previous arcs, there would be build up to how formidable the enemies will be for the Strawhats. An air of uncertainty as to whether they could win. Oda created this atmosphere around Luffy and Kaido. But even prior to that, a notable example would be during Enies Lobby/Water 7 when Zoro and Sanji had clashes with CP9 agents and did less than flattering on their first encounters.
Take this clash for instance.
The interaction with Blueno set CP9's threat level, Sanji barely being able to injure Blueno. The 4th strongest CP9 agent. Sanji would then proceed to challenge someone more than 3 times stronger than Blueno in Jabra. The stakes and tension for that fight high as Sanji was last seen struggling against somebody who forced his captain to use his power up and who he struggled to even damage. Sanji would defeat Jabra, creating catharsis through him overcoming a wall that was thought out of his reach not long ago. The Calamities similarly representing that wall he and Zoro should strive to surpass at the current stage of the story.
4. ConclusionOne Piece is on the verge of ending, and Wano represents a major series milestone. Just as how Luffy shall cement himself on the level of the Emperors, his strongest fighters will solidify themselves on par with the top executives of Emperor crews.
This arc like you mentioned feels like endgame and the ending of the story depends on the outcome of this arc, so Z and S should reach that yonko commander level or else every thing comes after will be underwhelming since the arcs that will come after Wano may not be big fighting arcs like elbaf
J
2020 people thinks CoC is irrelevantThe whole Navy HQ, WB pirates and everyone at MF were amazed/shocked/impressed by Luffy showing it.
Shanks whole hype revolves around CoC,
Anyone with CoC is hyped.
And only a few among THE MIGHTIEST people can see the future
Oda didn't say the Mighty but Mightiest (which means the dudes at the Peak of OP world )
KATA & luffy using CoC alone via glare without contact, they damaged the environment with just mere CoC pressureWhile it takes King/Marco to use attacks.
CoC alone shake the island , sky and seas
Y'all crazy. Only the mightiest can attain FS. Only true Conquerors have CoC.
Ray Oden Kata Ace are those underlings that matter. Possibly Benn too.
The rest are more comparable to Ace than Kata
Yup.
Easiest way to compare it is this:
- Sanji gimped both Oven, a 300 million bounty pirate, and Page 1, a pirate with possible similarities in strength (if you compare the Tobi Roppo to BM's "Monsters", aka Oven, Daifuku, Pero, Campote, Snack)
- 2 supernova, Urogue and allegedly Kid, have beaten Snack, reducing his title back to simply a minister.
- Sanji is comparible to multiple supernova at this point, such as Zoro (let's not devolve this into a SvZ thread, I am saying they are comparable). I would assume that Luffy, Law and Kid (and maybe Drake) at this point are the strongest Supernova, as they have been seemingly portrayed this way (Luffy, Kid, Law at least seem to be the most important).
- If Zoro at this point is pretty much one of the strongest supernova's as well, Sanji would be of similar range most likely.
Aka, the Tobi Roppo are more likely weaker Strawhat battles, who will be immensely strong for them, but will allow the Strawhats to grow in astronomical ways. The Calamities will be Luffy's top commanders battles. The other supernova will take on BMs "monsters" and strongest children.
We have to rember that there will always be a bias towards the main characters. Being Kaido centric, the Strawhats opponents will all most likely be Kaido/Orochi related. But with BM present, it allows the supernova to shine as well.
Easiest way to compare it is this:
- Sanji gimped both Oven, a 300 million bounty pirate, and Page 1, a pirate with possible similarities in strength (if you compare the Tobi Roppo to BM's "Monsters", aka Oven, Daifuku, Pero, Campote, Snack)
- 2 supernova, Urogue and allegedly Kid, have beaten Snack, reducing his title back to simply a minister.
- Sanji is comparible to multiple supernova at this point, such as Zoro (let's not devolve this into a SvZ thread, I am saying they are comparable). I would assume that Luffy, Law and Kid (and maybe Drake) at this point are the strongest Supernova, as they have been seemingly portrayed this way (Luffy, Kid, Law at least seem to be the most important).
- If Zoro at this point is pretty much one of the strongest supernova's as well, Sanji would be of similar range most likely.
Aka, the Tobi Roppo are more likely weaker Strawhat battles, who will be immensely strong for them, but will allow the Strawhats to grow in astronomical ways. The Calamities will be Luffy's top commanders battles. The other supernova will take on BMs "monsters" and strongest children.
We have to rember that there will always be a bias towards the main characters. Being Kaido centric, the Strawhats opponents will all most likely be Kaido/Orochi related. But with BM present, it allows the supernova to shine as well.
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2020 people thinks CoC is irrelevantThe whole Navy HQ, WB pirates and everyone at MF were amazed/shocked/impressed by Luffy showing it.
Shanks whole hype revolves around CoC,
Anyone with CoC is hyped.
And only a few among THE MIGHTIEST people can see the future
Oda didn't say the Mighty but Mightiest (which means the dudes at the Peak of OP world )
KATA & luffy using CoC alone via glare without contact, they damaged the environment with just mere CoC pressureWhile it takes King/Marco to use attacks.
CoC alone shake the island , sky and seas
Y'all crazy. Only the mightiest can attain FS. Only true Conquerors have CoC.
Ray Oden Kata Ace are those underlings that matter. Possibly Benn too.
The rest are more comparable to Ace than Kata
It can go from meh level to legendary level as Roger proved
If Sanji would defeat Queen it would be a great break of logic of powerlevels it would be like an fairy tail win Sanji is nowhere near the commander level without RS he is Daifuku/Oven level with he is flying six level
there is no way he will able to best a Yonko commander
Zoro yes Sanji not
seeing his performance against Doflamingo where he didnt even budge him while Zoro could budge Fujitora with an hakiless casual slash
we have three categories after TS
Luffy
Zoro
Sanji
three different domains
So will be the enemies
Luffy= Yonko/capatin class enemy
Zoro= executive enemy
Sanji= high-ranking class enemy
Luffy vs Kaido
Zoro vs King
Sanji vs maybe the son of Kaido or flying six member rematch with P1
In Dressrosa Kyros and Law defeated two executives the same Law also handles Vergo
In fact Sanji didnt defeat any major enemy till now since the start of the NW
going by this sheme
we could have others taking on the diasters for example Inu vs Jack or Kid vs Queen both metal arm
there is no way he will able to best a Yonko commander
Zoro yes Sanji not
seeing his performance against Doflamingo where he didnt even budge him while Zoro could budge Fujitora with an hakiless casual slash
we have three categories after TS
Luffy
Zoro
Sanji
three different domains
So will be the enemies
Luffy= Yonko/capatin class enemy
Zoro= executive enemy
Sanji= high-ranking class enemy
Luffy vs Kaido
Zoro vs King
Sanji vs maybe the son of Kaido or flying six member rematch with P1
In Dressrosa Kyros and Law defeated two executives the same Law also handles Vergo
In fact Sanji didnt defeat any major enemy till now since the start of the NW
going by this sheme
we could have others taking on the diasters for example Inu vs Jack or Kid vs Queen both metal arm
Sanji's fight is Who's Who.
So far, Sanji was built up to fight the tobi roppo. He first fought Page one, and then he fought Drake. Important thing to note is that Sanji didn't defeat page one, so we know he most likely isn't commander tier. As we know, Katakuri easily made quick work of Ichiji and would likely do the same to Page.
This is exemplified again in his fight with Drake, where he was getting beat down, despite drake not even using his hybrid form. Sanji's base kick didn't even make drake flinch and drake was able to send him flying into the ground before he could even get off a diable jambe.
So there's honestly nothing that suggests he can go toe to toe with Queen and win. Not to mention that Queen, a big bulky fighter, isn't the type of character that Sanji is good at taking on.
Who's Who seems to be perfectly in Sanji's range. He's probably a good bit stronger than Page One but not so much stronger that Sanji can't handle him. Furthermore, I think its very likely that Who's Who is an Owl Zoan.
Who's Who sounds like an owl's call( hoo hoo) and his mask makes him look a lot like an owl
If he is indeed an Owl zoan, he and Sanji can have a sky battle. We can finally see Sanji get his sky battle without insinuating that he's going to fight someone proven to be out of his league, like King.
So far, Sanji was built up to fight the tobi roppo. He first fought Page one, and then he fought Drake. Important thing to note is that Sanji didn't defeat page one, so we know he most likely isn't commander tier. As we know, Katakuri easily made quick work of Ichiji and would likely do the same to Page.
This is exemplified again in his fight with Drake, where he was getting beat down, despite drake not even using his hybrid form. Sanji's base kick didn't even make drake flinch and drake was able to send him flying into the ground before he could even get off a diable jambe.
So there's honestly nothing that suggests he can go toe to toe with Queen and win. Not to mention that Queen, a big bulky fighter, isn't the type of character that Sanji is good at taking on.
Who's Who seems to be perfectly in Sanji's range. He's probably a good bit stronger than Page One but not so much stronger that Sanji can't handle him. Furthermore, I think its very likely that Who's Who is an Owl Zoan.
Who's Who sounds like an owl's call( hoo hoo) and his mask makes him look a lot like an owl
If he is indeed an Owl zoan, he and Sanji can have a sky battle. We can finally see Sanji get his sky battle without insinuating that he's going to fight someone proven to be out of his league, like King.