Big mom isn’t done when we have gotten hints of her still being alive. On top of the fact we’re entering an arc that’s extremely relevant to her character
Kid and law “beating” her doesn’t change her ties to elbaf and luffy
Not all fights have to be to the death
Luffy and shanks can fight without hating each other
Elbaf is relevant to everyone big mom ain’t the only one and at this point her story at Elbaf is long over so it doesn’t matter.
Shanks actively avoids Luffy and actively searches for BB. He’s not going to find Luffy before Blackbeard, and if he fights BB he’ll lose which means fighting Luffy will have zero narrative impact.
Elbaf is relevant to everyone big mom ain’t the only one and at this point her story at Elbaf is long over so it doesn’t matter.
Shanks actively avoids Luffy and actively searches for BB. He’s not going to find Luffy before Blackbeard, and if he fights BB he’ll lose which means fighting Luffy will have zero narrative impact.
Most characters do not have as many ties to elbaf as she does. So not really the same
Was raised there
Killed holy mother Carmel and the rest of the orphans
Killed giant warrior captain jorul
Almost allied with them by having Lola marry Loki
Even mimicking some of their attacks
Also if there’s more to the mother Carmel situation than we know even more of a reason to have her involved
And Blackbeard avoids shanks
Luffy beating kaido doesnt make his fights with weaker characters irrelevant. Shanks is a bigger more important steppingstone to luffy’s journey than Blackbeard
Basically yonko -> admiral -> yonko
That doesn’t mean each needs a full blown arc dedicated to their defeats. Like big mom and Kuzan can lowkey be taken down in the same arc
Luffy beat kaido who’s over Linlin in wano and will beat kizaru who’s probably over Kuzan in egghead. So him beating one of each in a single arc isn’t too insane
While like most I agree that oda’s handling of Linlin has honestly been pretty unfortunate to say the least I don’t think she’s done. Whether he handles her return well or not idk but I really hope it’s better lol
Basically yonko -> admiral -> yonko
That doesn’t mean each needs a full blown arc dedicated to their defeats. Like big mom and Kuzan can lowkey be taken down in the same arc
Luffy beat kaido who’s over Linlin in wano and will beat kizaru who’s probably over Kuzan in egghead. So him beating one of each in a single arc isn’t too insane
We'll need at least 8+ years or another 400 chap to beat all those( and that's all in a speed run)
Unless he takes out 2 or 3 in a single arc.
He doesn't need to beat everyone, Oda himself let him take out only 1 Yonko out of the 4 OG's.
He doesn't write the story to make him beat the weakest Yonko first, he directly started from the one who's is portrayed as the strongest top tiers alive.
That will show that post Wano Luffy could stand toe to toe with any top tiers and have a shot at winning. Which is enough, Rest is all about plot.........
We'll need at least 8+ years or another 400 chap to beat all those( and that's all in a speed run)
Unless he takes out 2 or 3 in a single arc.
He doesn't need to beat everyone, Oda himself let him take out only 1 Yonko out of the 4 OG's.
He doesn't write the story to make him beat the weakest Yonko first, he directly started from the one who's is portrayed as the strongest top tiers alive.
That will show that post Wano Luffy could stand toe to toe with any top tiers and have a shot at winning. Which is enough, Rest is all about plot.........
Yeah I don’t think each and everyone will get a dedicated arc as main antagonist. Some of them will have to be taken down in the same arcs. I think him fighting them is more plot relevant than about power scaling
Most people believe that Luffy will fight Blackbeard, shanks, and akainu and if he does that means he would’ve defeated 3/4 yonko and 2/3 admirals
Add 1 more to each and done he’s done it. And lowkey Linlin and Kuzan might both go to elbaf which would be perfect
I think people simultaneously overthink and undersell Luffy's statements. Its clear that Oda already considers BM to have lost at WCI, he wrote a clear scene of this with chapter 903
This was suppsosed to sell to the reader that Big Mom already at that point had "lost" because Luffy entirely embarrased her in her own territory. He stole her RPs, destroyed her castle, defeated 2 Commanders and escaped.
So yes, we can "say" he's defeated 2 emperors already, even if his allies physicallt defeated Big Mom. This is why its fair to argue he will also defeat Blackbeard and Shanks (and those 2 will not have a deathmatch....) because technically his statements from PH still true. He has "mopped the floor" with 2 of Yonko, and "as long as Shanks isnt first", he'll continue to do so.
As for the Admirals.....it depends. I still think this scene is symbolic:
But Kuzan has ties to Koby/Garp where Im not 100% sure if Oda will give Kuzan to Luffy or not. The other 2 are clear as day though. Kizaru is losing to Luffy at Egghead and Akainu might lose in Elbaf or some future arc in proximity
We'll need at least 8+ years or another 400 chap to beat all those( and that's all in a speed run)
Unless he takes out 2 or 3 in a single arc.
He doesn't need to beat everyone, Oda himself let him take out only 1 Yonko out of the 4 OG's.
He doesn't write the story to make him beat the weakest Yonko first, he directly started from the one who's is portrayed as the strongest top tiers alive.
That will show that post Wano Luffy could stand toe to toe with any top tiers and have a shot at winning. Which is enough, Rest is all about plot.........
If you see my above post, imo Big Mom is just gone, WCI was his indication of winning.
Imo, Kuzan and Akainu go down the same arc because they have history and it allows Oda to have more Blackbeard elements tied to Akainu, maybe Luffy faces the former first before the latter in that case.
Blackbeard and Shanks will also lose in close proximity, not separate l dedicated arcs towards anything. They are tied to each other.
Edit: Imo, this is the order:
- WCI/Wano -> Big Mom (by virtue of doing everything else) and Kaido
- Egghead -> Kizaru
- Elbaf -> Aokiji and Akainu
- Lodestar and/or Laugh Tale -> Blackbeard and Shanks
- Endgame -> Imu
Basically 3 more "major" arcs. 4 if he ends up splitting Blackbeard and Shanks but I personally doubt it.
- Luffy didnt embarrass the fuck out of BM in WCI, thereby making her irrelevant without needing to physically defeat her
- Ignoring the fact that Luffy already wrecked Buggy and he'a a joke character
- Assuming Shanks "needs" to lose to Blackbeard in any capacity (dont worry though half the reader fanbase thinks it for some reason)
Nope,
Luffy only need to beat at least 2 to be considered higher than those 8 Top Tier. The rest can be handled by Zoro-Sanji, CG. While those 8 havent beat 1 in 1-on-1 (or half way 1-on-1)
For feat:
- 4 Emperors: already beat One, Kaido (even though bla bla). Plus Big Mom if we count Morgan news. Shanks is the last Luffy wants. As Buggy,... just try to count that the Emperors are only 3.
- 4 Admirals: draw to upper hand againts Kizaru. (In the next straight 1-on-1 (for example on Elbaf, just on an example), the ending is clear for Nika)
- Gorosei: ... Talk in next time ...
What he needs to beat is Pirate King (BB if he goes first but eventually lose) or the 6 world ruler (Im, Gorosei). Other than that, i have a very little interest
I think people simultaneously overthink and undersell Luffy's statements. Its clear that Oda already considers BM to have lost at WCI, he wrote a clear scene of this with chapter 903
This was suppsosed to sell to the reader that Big Mom already at that point had "lost" because Luffy entirely embarrased her in her own territory. He stole her RPs, destroyed her castle, defeated 2 Commanders and escaped.
So yes, we can "say" he's defeated 2 emperors already, even if his allies physicallt defeated Big Mom. This is why its fair to argue he will also defeat Blackbeard and Shanks (and those 2 will not have a deathmatch....) because technically his statements from PH still true. He has "mopped the floor" with 2 of Yonko, and "as long as Shanks isnt first", he'll continue to do so.
As for the Admirals.....it depends. I still think this scene is symbolic:
But Kuzan has ties to Koby/Garp where Im not 100% sure if Oda will give Kuzan to Luffy or not. The other 2 are clear as day though. Kizaru is losing to Luffy at Egghead and Akainu might lose in Elbaf or some future arc in proximity
Post automatically merged:
If you see my above post, imo Big Mom is just gone, WCI was his indication of winning.
Imo, Kuzan and Akainu go down the same arc because they have history and it allows Oda to have more Blackbeard elements tied to Akainu, maybe Luffy faces the former first before the latter in that case.
Blackbeard and Shanks will also lose in close proximity, not separate l dedicated arcs towards anything. They are tied to each other.
Edit: Imo, this is the order:
- WCI/Wano -> Big Mom (by virtue of doing everything else) and Kaido
- Egghead -> Kizaru
- Elbaf -> Aokiji and Akainu
- Lodestar and/or Laugh Tale -> Blackbeard and Shanks
- Endgame -> Imu
Basically 3 more "major" arcs. 4 if he ends up splitting Blackbeard and Shanks but I personally doubt it.
Morgan’s doesn’t represent how luffy or big mom view it tho
Big mom doesn’t believe she lost to luffy and I doubt Luffy believes he beat big mom mainly because he hasn’t
Doubt Big mom’s beef with luffy and elbaf will just become irrelevant
Morgan’s doesn’t represent how luffy or big mom view it tho
Big mom doesn’t believe she lost to luffy and I doubt Luffy believes he beat big mom mainly because he hasn’t
Doubt Big mom’s beef with luffy and elbaf will just become irrelevant
Morgan’s doesn’t represent how luffy or big mom view it tho
Big mom doesn’t believe she lost to luffy and I doubt Luffy believes he beat big mom mainly because he hasn’t
Doubt Big mom’s beef with luffy and elbaf will just become irrelevant
This doesn't really matter lol. What matters is how its conveyed by the story, and technically the story netted Luffy 2 victories against Yonko thus far.
We, the readers, are aware of narration from Oda, not Luffy. And said narration conveyes that message that he defeared Big Mom without needing to defeat her.
This doesn't really matter lol. What matters is how its conveyed by the story, and technically the story netted Luffy 2 victories against Yonko thus far.
We, the readers, are aware of narration from Oda, not Luffy. And said narration conveyes that message that he defeared Big Mom without needing to defeat her.
While like most I agree that oda’s handling of Linlin has honestly been pretty unfortunate to say the least I don’t think she’s done. Whether he handles her return well or not idk but I really hope it’s better lol
I argue that she doesnt have any loose ends, her children might though.
Nothing about Elbaf requires her to be present, but if Katakuri is there because they set out to find Pudding, then I can absolutely see payoff for Elbaf hating her crew because of her actions.
Im not convinced Oda is bringing Big Mom and Kaido back into the present story. Having her lose again is just extremely redundant in an arc that doesnt need it at that point.
We can agree to disagree, but personally I dont see Oda giving her much focus again this late in the plot.
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