Controversial Wista
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Vista Vivre card tells us he is a incredibly skilled swordsman "top class" being able to compete against mihawk,he is among some of the best swordsmen in the world. He is proficient in arnament haki and can coat his sword in ryou just like mihawk taught zoro. Meaning he can also cut steel. The vivre card tells us as well Despite mihawks insane power he was not afraid to confront him.
I have never really understood downplaying mihawk for vista the dude is pretty strong, mihawk was not focused on him he was looking at luffy. Mihawk with superior swordsmanship to shanks was able to power down enough and fight east blue zoro, slicing his chest open but with a certainty being able to confirm to luffy he will not die. He also explains to us that he is not someone who simply goes all out he isnt like shanks (divine departure kidd with coc haki)
I have never really understood downplaying mihawk for vista the dude is pretty strong, mihawk was not focused on him he was looking at luffy. Mihawk with superior swordsmanship to shanks was able to power down enough and fight east blue zoro, slicing his chest open but with a certainty being able to confirm to luffy he will not die. He also explains to us that he is not someone who simply goes all out he isnt like shanks (divine departure kidd with coc haki)
He stated in his own internal monologue that he is unable to restrain himself. This is cap.
And he stated that he had to use a small knife because using other weapons was overkill. Proving again that he is shit and unable to contain his strength.
Again, this is false. He didn't expend the whole fight looking at other people like you claim. Taking a panel away during the fight was something that every single top tier did, including WB and the admirals. This is just plot exposition.
And yet he was unable to win against Vista. We actually saw what he does against enemies that he can defeat without effort (look at him vs Mr. 1). The fact of the matter is that he was unable to win against Vista and had to ask for a time out.
This level of cope is absurd.
And he stated that he had to use a small knife because using other weapons was overkill. Proving again that he is shit and unable to contain his strength.
Again, this is false. He didn't expend the whole fight looking at other people like you claim. Taking a panel away during the fight was something that every single top tier did, including WB and the admirals. This is just plot exposition.
And yet he was unable to win against Vista. We actually saw what he does against enemies that he can defeat without effort (look at him vs Mr. 1). The fact of the matter is that he was unable to win against Vista and had to ask for a time out.
This level of cope is absurd.
1. Not really. Kuzan has a tendency to overboard far more than Akainu. And Big Mom literally was holding back even against Kid/Law for a good portion of the fight. No character even the MCs are going all out off the bat. Panels of panels of Luffy playing around with fodder in his base.
2. Yes and that fight was what exactly? Zoro attacking while Dracule stood there deflecting all his attacks with a mere knife -> The moment Dracule decides he saw enough he stabs him with the knife -> Then only because of the potential he saw in Zoro he uses Yoru and lets him live.
You attempting to make that as some sort of a fight that was comparable to Mihawk vs Vista is just weird to me.
3rd. Vista was the one who came in and clashed with the initial slash aimed at Luffy. Which produced a shockwave from the impact between their swords, something that has never happened with any of Zoro's sword fights yet. And yes because they're in a war. Akainu had other things on his mind against Newgate, Newgate had other things on his mind when against Akainu... Having other things on your mind in a war that involves other people is literally something normal... They weren't in an isolated location of a 1on1 like Kaido and Luffy. You think Vista would have 0 things on his mind and only Dracule is just weird and illogical knowing the situation at that time. If anything Vista would have more things going on in his mind as his people are being killed and they have other strong enemies to deal with as well.
4th. Now you're simply talking on behalf of Mihawk and assuming what is what. He wouldn't be excited to fight somebody he's showing great amount of respect to, when he spends his boredom hunting down fodder? That makes 0 sense whatsoever, especially for the type of a character who loves fighting. You put Vista-Dracule in an isolated scenario, Dracule would love to fight him.
- He only got excited at Zoro's potential, which is stronger than Mihawk. Not at who Zoro was... hence I stated nobody is arguing Vista vs Zoro. So no point in bringing it up. Did you see his attitude towards Zoro when he met him again at the castle? Yea he ain't give no fucks other than being amused by how he ended up there. Only became shocked at Zoro's baboon achievement & then his bowing, which again is related to Zoro's potential.
- And you'd be simply assuming the %s of the character with 0 solid basis to assess them. As neither Dracule or Vista have gone all out.
- Since when has Vista been portrayed behind Jozu and Marco when it comes to powerlevel? Lmao, please tell me your portrayal isn't panel-scaling but actual scenes and moments of portrayal.
Neither of the below scenes are related to powerlevel portrayal (just in case they were the ones you were referring to, since they're the ones often brought up for them)
2. Yes and that fight was what exactly? Zoro attacking while Dracule stood there deflecting all his attacks with a mere knife -> The moment Dracule decides he saw enough he stabs him with the knife -> Then only because of the potential he saw in Zoro he uses Yoru and lets him live.
You attempting to make that as some sort of a fight that was comparable to Mihawk vs Vista is just weird to me.
3rd. Vista was the one who came in and clashed with the initial slash aimed at Luffy. Which produced a shockwave from the impact between their swords, something that has never happened with any of Zoro's sword fights yet. And yes because they're in a war. Akainu had other things on his mind against Newgate, Newgate had other things on his mind when against Akainu... Having other things on your mind in a war that involves other people is literally something normal... They weren't in an isolated location of a 1on1 like Kaido and Luffy. You think Vista would have 0 things on his mind and only Dracule is just weird and illogical knowing the situation at that time. If anything Vista would have more things going on in his mind as his people are being killed and they have other strong enemies to deal with as well.
4th. Now you're simply talking on behalf of Mihawk and assuming what is what. He wouldn't be excited to fight somebody he's showing great amount of respect to, when he spends his boredom hunting down fodder? That makes 0 sense whatsoever, especially for the type of a character who loves fighting. You put Vista-Dracule in an isolated scenario, Dracule would love to fight him.
- He only got excited at Zoro's potential, which is stronger than Mihawk. Not at who Zoro was... hence I stated nobody is arguing Vista vs Zoro. So no point in bringing it up. Did you see his attitude towards Zoro when he met him again at the castle? Yea he ain't give no fucks other than being amused by how he ended up there. Only became shocked at Zoro's baboon achievement & then his bowing, which again is related to Zoro's potential.
- And you'd be simply assuming the %s of the character with 0 solid basis to assess them. As neither Dracule or Vista have gone all out.
- Since when has Vista been portrayed behind Jozu and Marco when it comes to powerlevel? Lmao, please tell me your portrayal isn't panel-scaling but actual scenes and moments of portrayal.
Neither of the below scenes are related to powerlevel portrayal (just in case they were the ones you were referring to, since they're the ones often brought up for them)
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We are getting off topic. Point is, no top tier will go all out, but Mihawk has shown that he will restrain himself even more so than most others.
Mihawk also pushed him back at one point.
I am not saying it is comparable, just that Mihawk has no problem prolonging the encounter if he wants to.
Luffy was initially on Mihawk's left side.
But after blocking a clash, he is COMPLETELY on the right side.
This means that Mihawk didn't aim the slash at Luffy, but blocked Vista's dash when he noticed him. Otherwise, he wouldn't be turned 180 degrees.
Not really, you are supposed to be focused on the battlefield. Vista isn't a rookie, he wouldn't be distracted by impractical thoughts. There is a BIG difference about thinking about the outcome of the fight, and thinking about a man completely unrelated to the person you are fighting.
He spends time hunting fodder because he is bored, as there is no swordsman who has the potential to beat him. That's the point. A strongest person respecting someone's skills but not finding them a challenge is not at all unusual.
...Maybe? I don't know, it is possible, but Mihawk did not show any emotional difference when he got Vista in front of him. Which (given what we saw against Zoro and Navy) implies Vista didn't offer anything exciting to him.
You are missing the point. I am not comparing Zoro and Vista in relation to each other, I am showing that Mihawk will have VISIBLE emotional reaction when something out of ordinary happens. The fact that he had the same reaction against Vista as he has 95% of the time, implies it wasn't anything special in grand scheme of things.
I am... not? Literally the opposite. I am making no claim on power levels here, people who downscale Mihawk/upscale Vista are the ones making a scaling claim and burden of proof is on them.
There are multiple others scenes, but yes. Oda is very narrative driven author, the fact that he constantly grouped Marco and Jozu since EL (while Vista was shown with the rest only at Marineford) makes me believe in Oda's mind Marco>Jozu>Vista. Of course, if you wanna believe otherwise, you are free to do so (I had Vista>Jozu for a long time), but it seems like Jozu is just highlighted more, which makes it harder for me to upscale Vista, especially given the lack of concrete feats and hype.
Mihawk also pushed him back at one point.
I am not saying it is comparable, just that Mihawk has no problem prolonging the encounter if he wants to.
Luffy was initially on Mihawk's left side.
But after blocking a clash, he is COMPLETELY on the right side.
This means that Mihawk didn't aim the slash at Luffy, but blocked Vista's dash when he noticed him. Otherwise, he wouldn't be turned 180 degrees.
Not really, you are supposed to be focused on the battlefield. Vista isn't a rookie, he wouldn't be distracted by impractical thoughts. There is a BIG difference about thinking about the outcome of the fight, and thinking about a man completely unrelated to the person you are fighting.
He spends time hunting fodder because he is bored, as there is no swordsman who has the potential to beat him. That's the point. A strongest person respecting someone's skills but not finding them a challenge is not at all unusual.
...Maybe? I don't know, it is possible, but Mihawk did not show any emotional difference when he got Vista in front of him. Which (given what we saw against Zoro and Navy) implies Vista didn't offer anything exciting to him.
You are missing the point. I am not comparing Zoro and Vista in relation to each other, I am showing that Mihawk will have VISIBLE emotional reaction when something out of ordinary happens. The fact that he had the same reaction against Vista as he has 95% of the time, implies it wasn't anything special in grand scheme of things.
I am... not? Literally the opposite. I am making no claim on power levels here, people who downscale Mihawk/upscale Vista are the ones making a scaling claim and burden of proof is on them.
There are multiple others scenes, but yes. Oda is very narrative driven author, the fact that he constantly grouped Marco and Jozu since EL (while Vista was shown with the rest only at Marineford) makes me believe in Oda's mind Marco>Jozu>Vista. Of course, if you wanna believe otherwise, you are free to do so (I had Vista>Jozu for a long time), but it seems like Jozu is just highlighted more, which makes it harder for me to upscale Vista, especially given the lack of concrete feats and hype.
Man, again. The page has everything written. There's no need to ask. Just read the page and you have the answer.
Yeah. Pretty pathetic of him.
If you have the manga page stating that like we have of Mihawk recognizing that he is unable to control his strength feel free to share. Overall, we can assume that most players in Marineford got a strength update during the timeskip, like Croc, so the initial pathetic showing of the fraud can be excused.
I accept your concession. If you want to disagree with canon statements post panels that prove otherwise.
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Yeah. Pretty pathetic of him.
If you have the manga page stating that like we have of Mihawk recognizing that he is unable to control his strength feel free to share. Overall, we can assume that most players in Marineford got a strength update during the timeskip, like Croc, so the initial pathetic showing of the fraud can be excused.
I accept your concession. If you want to disagree with canon statements post panels that prove otherwise.
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