And that's fine because Zoro is eventually meant to become Luffy's right hand man, so he's always going to have more spotlight alongside Luffy. That doesn't negate the fact that in terms of caliber of opponents Zoro and Sanji's are a lot closer in comparison than Luffy and Zoro's or Luffy and Sanji's.
General & Others Zoro and Sanji aren't ready.
- Thread starter Darkoplax
- Start date
I dont think he is meant to be Luffy's right hand man.
If he were supposed to be RHM he could have been that from the start but Oda obviously has other plans.
At EoS, I think Zoro will leave the Strawhat pirates because he is only there to help Luffy to become PK.
Actually, combat wise, Luffy's and Sanji's opponents are more similar than Zoro's and Sanji's.
Luffy's and Sanji's opponents use blunt damage and fists/legs while Zoro's opponents are almost always weaponized.
Sanji and Luffy deliver tons of hits to win, Zoro delivers 1 hit to win.
If he were supposed to be RHM he could have been that from the start but Oda obviously has other plans.
At EoS, I think Zoro will leave the Strawhat pirates because he is only there to help Luffy to become PK.
Actually, combat wise, Luffy's and Sanji's opponents are more similar than Zoro's and Sanji's.
Luffy's and Sanji's opponents use blunt damage and fists/legs while Zoro's opponents are almost always weaponized.
Sanji and Luffy deliver tons of hits to win, Zoro delivers 1 hit to win.
Why? Can you provide one NARRATIVE reason why this would be Zoro's big 1v1?
I want a NARRATIVE reason and not a power scaling reason. Because this story is written with Narrative in mind and not power scaling. Also because your power scaling is entirely your head Canon and doesn't reflect what Oda actually thinks.
So please provide a NARRATIVE reason why the Swordsman in the arc of Swordsmen fights an injured guy who is NOT even the strongest swordsman yet his goal is to be the strongest swordsman.
If you want an idea about how this story is written based on NARRATIVE importance then look no further than Zoro's opponents. Zoro is the second strongest and he's a swordsman so Oda makes sure every arc must have a swordsman who is the second strongest. The Narrative of the arcs is specifically manipulated so that Zoro fights swordsmen.
Are you seeing what I mean by NARRATIVE reasoning?
So now Zoro, future Strongest swordsman goes to the land of all the legendary Swordsmen, he's compared to BOTH the two greatest swordsmen of the land and he's even implied to be on track to surpass BOTH the legends. The land of swordsmen though is under attack by an evil army of monsters and at the top there's a dragon and his second strongest, a swordsman who is stronger than any living sword an in this land of swordsmen.
Zoro is tasked with saving the land of swordsmen and even inherits a sword from the fallen legend. Zoro's captain is focused on the terrorising Dragon and Zoro is supposed to provide back up. In their way though stands the second in command though, the strongest swordsman in this land of swordsmen.
Zoro, future strongest swordsman in the world chooses what now? He never fights the strongest swordsman who is the second in command of the enemy and instead fights an injured underling.
That's your Narrative. See. That's your climax to this story of the future strongest swordsman in the world.
So please Provide a Narrative reason for this outcome. Please tell us how all the build up and story and themes around Zoro climax around him having a 1v1 with a heavily injured jack
Except when Zoro beats the main villain or when he's casually dealing with the second strongest under the main villain as Luffy is going all out.
Notice that. I mean Zoro gets nerfed and still beats certain people while Luffy is going all out
I want a NARRATIVE reason and not a power scaling reason. Because this story is written with Narrative in mind and not power scaling. Also because your power scaling is entirely your head Canon and doesn't reflect what Oda actually thinks.
So please provide a NARRATIVE reason why the Swordsman in the arc of Swordsmen fights an injured guy who is NOT even the strongest swordsman yet his goal is to be the strongest swordsman.
If you want an idea about how this story is written based on NARRATIVE importance then look no further than Zoro's opponents. Zoro is the second strongest and he's a swordsman so Oda makes sure every arc must have a swordsman who is the second strongest. The Narrative of the arcs is specifically manipulated so that Zoro fights swordsmen.
Are you seeing what I mean by NARRATIVE reasoning?
So now Zoro, future Strongest swordsman goes to the land of all the legendary Swordsmen, he's compared to BOTH the two greatest swordsmen of the land and he's even implied to be on track to surpass BOTH the legends. The land of swordsmen though is under attack by an evil army of monsters and at the top there's a dragon and his second strongest, a swordsman who is stronger than any living sword an in this land of swordsmen.
Zoro is tasked with saving the land of swordsmen and even inherits a sword from the fallen legend. Zoro's captain is focused on the terrorising Dragon and Zoro is supposed to provide back up. In their way though stands the second in command though, the strongest swordsman in this land of swordsmen.
Zoro, future strongest swordsman in the world chooses what now? He never fights the strongest swordsman who is the second in command of the enemy and instead fights an injured underling.
That's your Narrative. See. That's your climax to this story of the future strongest swordsman in the world.
So please Provide a Narrative reason for this outcome. Please tell us how all the build up and story and themes around Zoro climax around him having a 1v1 with a heavily injured jack
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Except when Zoro beats the main villain or when he's casually dealing with the second strongest under the main villain as Luffy is going all out.
Notice that. I mean Zoro gets nerfed and still beats certain people while Luffy is going all out
It all depends on how Oda ends Act 3. Imho, I don't think any of the original monster trio are ready.
Luffy still has not awakened his DF and Zoro has not turned Enma into a black blade. Sandai Kitetsu is still waiting for a new owner.
Power ups can always happen in the middle of a fight so who knows
Luffy still has not awakened his DF and Zoro has not turned Enma into a black blade. Sandai Kitetsu is still waiting for a new owner.
Power ups can always happen in the middle of a fight so who knows
It all depends on how Oda ends Act 3. Imho, I don't think any of the original monster trio are ready.
Luffy still has not awakened his DF and Zoro has not turned Enma into a black blade. Sandai Kitetsu is still waiting for a new owner.
Power ups can always happen in the middle of a fight so who knows
Luffy still has not awakened his DF and Zoro has not turned Enma into a black blade. Sandai Kitetsu is still waiting for a new owner.
Power ups can always happen in the middle of a fight so who knows
Zoro is ready for anything, black blades dont make people into top tiers if they werent one already.
That's not how stories work. The story will ensure Luffy is ready.
That's like saying Luffy in East blue was aiming for Pirate king and he wasn't ready. Well duh, that's why there's 1000 chapters in between.
The story decides when and how and if one is ready. Unless the point is to fail.
If the point is for Luffy and Zoro to fail then they will.
If the point is for them to win then they will. As many things as possible will happen to make sure of it.
Luffy and Zoro has training montages at the the end of Act 2. If you don't believe that those monatages are enough even though THIS THE FIRST ARC EVER TO HAVE THEM TRAINING MID ARC, then there's nothing Oda can do.
Oda put the training there so that you believe the shit thats coming. Because if the Point of this arc is "The strawhats will win" then they will win
That's like saying Luffy in East blue was aiming for Pirate king and he wasn't ready. Well duh, that's why there's 1000 chapters in between.
The story decides when and how and if one is ready. Unless the point is to fail.
If the point is for Luffy and Zoro to fail then they will.
If the point is for them to win then they will. As many things as possible will happen to make sure of it.
Luffy and Zoro has training montages at the the end of Act 2. If you don't believe that those monatages are enough even though THIS THE FIRST ARC EVER TO HAVE THEM TRAINING MID ARC, then there's nothing Oda can do.
Oda put the training there so that you believe the shit thats coming. Because if the Point of this arc is "The strawhats will win" then they will win
Sandai Kitetsu aint going anywhere.
Zoro is ready for anything, black blades dont make people into top tiers if they werent one already.
Zoro is ready for anything, black blades dont make people into top tiers if they werent one already.
King is implied to be as good as Marco and he will undoubtedly be Zoro's first real challenge in the NW.
Zoro still has not learned the fire sword style which was teased since Punk Hazard.
In addition, Oda has teased a Zoro FB that will explain his connection to Wano and how he got to EB.
Maybe I am wrong but I have a serious feeling that a bigger story is looming within this arc. That last chapter should literally be renamed "Tempting Fate"
Sandai Kitetsu is Zoro's sword. Do you mean Nidai Kitetsu? Zoro is getting that one too and he will leave Enma in Wano, imo.
Well, Zoro may or may not deal with King, the obstacle that needs to go down is Kaido and Zoro's power is wasted anywhere else.
He can learn fire style against Big Mom or Kaido too since both use fire.
Even if he is able to cut it, it didnt make him stronger, all his stats remain the same. Zoro's "PUs" arent like Luffy's.
Yes, we are all expecting more lore about Zoro's connection to Wano and it will probably happen but also couldnt if Zoro's past is connected to something else instead of Wano. We should at least get the part when Zoro visits Ryuma grave.
Well, Zoro may or may not deal with King, the obstacle that needs to go down is Kaido and Zoro's power is wasted anywhere else.
He can learn fire style against Big Mom or Kaido too since both use fire.
Even if he is able to cut it, it didnt make him stronger, all his stats remain the same. Zoro's "PUs" arent like Luffy's.
Yes, we are all expecting more lore about Zoro's connection to Wano and it will probably happen but also couldnt if Zoro's past is connected to something else instead of Wano. We should at least get the part when Zoro visits Ryuma grave.
Well that's the thing, all of the Straw Hats are there to only help Luffy become Pirate King, and also achieve their own dreams. I don't think the Straw Hats will exists at all by the time the final pages of the Manga turns. They will all be there till Luffy meets his end, but after that, they'll all go their separate ways.
It is not the same with Zoro, everyone else has clearly defined position in the crew. Zoro doesnt, there is a reason for that.
Luffy also wanted Zoro in his crew before he even met him, everyone else joined to fill a certain job.
"And so the two young adventurers sail on towards the naval base and... destiny!"
Zoro and Luffy meeting was destiny, they are two different sides of the same coin.
If you want to group Zoro with someone, it can only be done with Luffy.
Luffy also wanted Zoro in his crew before he even met him, everyone else joined to fill a certain job.
"And so the two young adventurers sail on towards the naval base and... destiny!"
Zoro and Luffy meeting was destiny, they are two different sides of the same coin.
If you want to group Zoro with someone, it can only be done with Luffy.
It is not the same with Zoro, everyone else has clearly defined position in the crew. Zoro doesnt, there is a reason for that.
Luffy also wanted Zoro in his crew before he even met him, everyone else joined to fill a certain job.
"And so the two young adventurers sail on towards the naval base and... destiny!"
Zoro and Luffy meeting was destiny, they are two different sides of the same coin.
If you want to group Zoro with someone, it can only be done with Luffy.
Luffy also wanted Zoro in his crew before he even met him, everyone else joined to fill a certain job.
"And so the two young adventurers sail on towards the naval base and... destiny!"
Zoro and Luffy meeting was destiny, they are two different sides of the same coin.
If you want to group Zoro with someone, it can only be done with Luffy.
Narratively speaking the fact that you think that they are not ready is a good thing. In fact, it is the very point.
What would be the point to see the protagonists only beats character that you know they can beat? Where is the thrill? Where is the accomplishement?
The author as to present the antagonist as an insurpetable odd for the protagonist’s victory to be satisfactory.
Powerscaling is fun and shit but it will never top the story nor the narrative.
What would be the point to see the protagonists only beats character that you know they can beat? Where is the thrill? Where is the accomplishement?
The author as to present the antagonist as an insurpetable odd for the protagonist’s victory to be satisfactory.
Powerscaling is fun and shit but it will never top the story nor the narrative.
How many Swordsman has Zoro beaten since the start of the series ?
it's never meaningless even small progression is better than none, beating the top Samurai of Wano would still be something cool even if Zoro overpowers him and learn something out of it (idk cutting fire or whatever , just simple progression in that quest of WSS)
it's never meaningless even small progression is better than none, beating the top Samurai of Wano would still be something cool even if Zoro overpowers him and learn something out of it (idk cutting fire or whatever , just simple progression in that quest of WSS)
Zoro has beaten THE STRONGEST SWORDSMEN he can find to progress his dream. Even when he's severely outmatched he either almost dies to Mihawk or Plot decides that Fujitora is a good guy so that Zoro doesn't die fighting an admiral. This is the pattern for 1000 chapters now.
So I'm simply asking what you expect to happen here.
Are you saying Zoro will Ignore the strongest swordsman in Wano because he wants to be a support fighter for Luffy and 10 other guys fighting Kaido? Even though Zoro was very willing to fight Fujitora who is stronger than King.
Or will Oda literally write it that Zoro just never crosses paths with king because we know Zoro won't lose if he actually does fight king?
It doesn't matter how strong you think hotei is or what Zoro will learn. As long as king exists, you have to explain how Oda will somehow write it that Zoro who immediately challenges Admirals just because they are swordsmen would not actually fight king.
And notice that this entire argument is based on the fact that Zoro will win if he fights king. I'm sure in your mind you can't even fathom a loss for Zoro.
So I'm simply asking what you expect to happen here.
Are you saying Zoro will Ignore the strongest swordsman in Wano because he wants to be a support fighter for Luffy and 10 other guys fighting Kaido? Even though Zoro was very willing to fight Fujitora who is stronger than King.
Or will Oda literally write it that Zoro just never crosses paths with king because we know Zoro won't lose if he actually does fight king?
It doesn't matter how strong you think hotei is or what Zoro will learn. As long as king exists, you have to explain how Oda will somehow write it that Zoro who immediately challenges Admirals just because they are swordsmen would not actually fight king.
And notice that this entire argument is based on the fact that Zoro will win if he fights king. I'm sure in your mind you can't even fathom a loss for Zoro.
I don’t think the comparison with Luffy works. It’s true that he had to get stronger through intense fights to reach and surpass YC level, but in Zoro and Sanji’s case, it’s different because their big power up came in the form of a tool/training. Luffy didn’t have any tool to help him become stronger so fighting powerful foes was his only way of progressing.
