General & Others Zoro and Sanji, Wings of Pirate King

[Jailer]

I like you Kuro. You are one of the most realistic Sanji fans out there

Him and @NotTommy come to mind to being realistic Sanji fans

You see his threads and stelathblack/chrono it's a day night difference

 

[Kuro Ashi]

Robin's comment aside (which I still say isn't what some people interpreted it as), since Oda already mentioned the wing stuff; how is it any different from calling Zoro and Sanji as Luffy's two hands.

The funny part is that this information has been out for, like, half a decade? More? But folks are suddenly acting like- on both sides- that it brought anything new :zorothink:

These two have been unanimously accepted as Luffy's right and left hand man respectively. Almost every Sanji downplayer would accept as much, at least. So I don't even see the point of any of these threads- specially considering Robin's statement is absolutely irrelevant to topic itself as the subject is an incredibly old news.

It's like trying to overreact about Zoro being his right hand because of Barto's statement despite such being implied thousand of times prior and has been confirmed in Vivre Cards.

Wings, hands, same stuff. Sanji will always be the second most significant crew-mate Luffy has, and Zoro will always be a step ahead narratively or in terms of power-scaling. They have a bunch of parallels as Luffy's main men, but Zoro has even additional ones- there's a reason why Oda didn't make them both share Luffy's pain at the same time amongst dozens of other narrative points that make Zoro stand-out as Pirate King's obvious right hand.

Saying Sanji is trash compared to Zoro is wrong- but we don't need to make threads on subjects from 5 years ago to fight that lol

At least on this forum the "Sanji is just a cook" narrative is spammed in countless threads to argue against anything related to the prospect of future development from him in terms of overall strength, future match-ups, or stuff like Haki.

Can the Left Hand Man of the Pirate King become a Top tier ? Just a cook bro.
Can the Left Hand Man of the Pirate King fight a Top tier EoS ? Just a cook bro.
Can the Left Hand Man of the Pirate King unlock CoC at some point ? Just a cook

A lot of weight comes with accepting Sanji as one of the Pirate King's two main dudes, one of the two main pillars supporting the man who has conquered the seas.

So then it's more difficult to shit on Sanji's potential in comparison to Mama's boy Katakuri or Random Navy leader Chinjao that Sai a Grand Fleet captain will probably match at some point.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Robin's comment aside (which I still say isn't what some people interpreted it as), since Oda already mentioned the wing stuff; how is it any different from calling Zoro and Sanji as Luffy's two hands.

The funny part is that this information has been out for, like, half a decade? More? But folks are suddenly acting like- on both sides- that it brought anything new :zorothink:

These two have been unanimously accepted as Luffy's right and left hand man respectively. Almost every Sanji downplayer would accept as much, at least. So I don't even see the point of any of these threads- specially considering Robin's statement is absolutely irrelevant to topic itself as the subject is an incredibly old news.

It's like trying to overreact about Zoro being his right hand because of Barto's statement despite such being implied thousand of times prior and has been confirmed in Vivre Cards.

Wings, hands, same stuff. Sanji will always be the second most significant crew-mate Luffy has, and Zoro will always be a step ahead narratively or in terms of power-scaling. They have a bunch of parallels as Luffy's main men, but Zoro has even additional ones- there's a reason why Oda didn't make them both share Luffy's pain at the same time amongst dozens of other narrative points that make Zoro stand-out as Pirate King's obvious right hand.

Saying Sanji is trash compared to Zoro is wrong- but we don't need to make threads on subjects from 5 years ago to fight that lol

You get that a lot of people still refer to Nami as Luffy left hand right? And recently people are saying “Sanji is weaker than Jinbe” or “Yamato is kicking Sanji out of the monster trio.”

The only thing this has done is reassert that Sanji is and always will be the third member of the monster trio and stronger than any other straw hat that joins outside of Luffy and Zoro. People are mad because they think Luffy and Zoro should no longer be grouped with Sanji like Oda is doing. Sanji fans are going overboard because they’ve been trolled for so long they wanna troll back.

Both sides need to calm down. Sanji haters need to accept Sanji will be comparable to Luffy and Zoro and Sanji Fans need to just calm down.

 

[Jailer]

The funny part is that this information has been out for, like, half a decade?

I never even knew that before this chapter was brought up and that info then was dropped in the spoilers. Have fun reading 100+ sbs

 

[Shanal]

Whole wings thing is just figure of speech, at least here. Hands do the work but wings are more like what pushes you forward

Roughly the same thing; it just puts emphasis on following factors:

-They're both the two main pillars of support for Luffy- similar to Rayleigh and Gaban (Silver and Copper to Roger's Gold)
-They're, well, two most significant individuals to the crew in terms of characteristics and whatnot (not accounting for plot, where Robin leaves either in dust).

Ultimately, it just preserves the M3 nature. It preserves that Sanji is more important than anyone not named Luffy or Zoro, and that Sanji will always maintain that position. And yes, it also shows how Sanji will be strong later on, too. I always saw him on par with any admiral come EoS, tbh.

Since this entire topic is based on story and narrative, I have a question, though. Do you believe Sanji is on par with Zoro on narrative importance? We're not talking about practical stuff (cooking for survivability), because then Nami is much more useful than either anyway. I'm bringing this up narratively, story-wise.

Would you put them at same level in that manner irrespective of combat strength, or would you consider Zoro a step ahead? Because a lot of folks here, including you, have subtly implied as if the wings comment singlehandedly, certainly decides an even narrative importance.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

I never even knew that before this chapter was brought up and that info then was dropped in the spoilers. Have fun reading 100+ sbs

Sanji fans have brought it up before but it was dismissed because the official english translation did not use the term "wings", as it did not trust the English readers apparently to understand the metaphor and what it implies, so they spoon fed their interpretation calling Zoro and Sanji valuable and trustworthy for Luffy instead.

 

[Shanal]

You get that a lot of people still refer to Nami as Luffy left hand right? And recently people are saying “Sanji is weaker than Jinbe” or “Yamato is kicking Sanji out of the monster trio.”

The only thing this has done is reassert that Sanji is and always will be the third member of the monster trio and stronger than any other straw hat that joins outside of Luffy and Zoro. People are mad because they think Luffy and Zoro should no longer be grouped with Sanji like Oda is doing. Sanji fans are going overboard because they’ve been trolled for so long they wanna troll back.

Both sides need to calm down. Sanji haters need to accept Sanji will be comparable to Luffy and Zoro and Sanji Fans need to just calm down.

Yeah, those are trolling. Sanji was never leaving M3, and will never be.

Better to just ignore them. It's similar to likes of Big D Kaios but on the opposite side. Flame wars will continue and no amount of evidence will prove the folks otherwise.

 

[Roronoa Sanji 81]

If Yamato joins Sanji will just surpass Yamato

Let's talk about this after we see Sanji using ACOC

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Yeah, those are trolling. Sanji was never leaving M3, and will never be.

Better to just ignore them. It's similar to likes of Big D Kaios but on the opposite side. Flame wars will continue and no amount of evidence will prove the folks otherwise.

I mean if you look at the sanji vs Jinbe thread a lot of people still think Sanji would lose to land Jinbe with Jinbe winning those polls.

That’s why people are mad because they can no longer say Sanjis being left behind and replaced.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

@Shanal

The only correct way to look at it is that Zoro was, is , and always will be a bit over Sanji in terms of strength and significance.

It's made abundantly clear in TB when both of them are the last two standing, and they get praised for their willingness to sacrifice themselves for Luffy, but Zoro's the one who's allowed to go through with it.

Zoro and Sanji are Luffy's two great pillars of support, the one's still standing even when everything else crashes around them, but Zoro's the last of the two pillars that breaks.

 

[Alpha]

@Shanal

The only correct way to look at it is that Zoro was, is , and always will be a bit over Sanji in terms of strength and significance.

It's made abundantly clear in TB when both of them are the last two standing, and they get praised for their willingness to sacrifice themselves for Luffy, but Zoro's the one who's allowed to go through with it.

Zoro and Sanji are Luffy's two great pillars of support, the one's still standing even when everything else crashes around them, but Zoro's the last of the two pillars that breaks.

This.
Trolling aside, this should be plain obvious..

 

[Zara]

I interpreted that quote as each member of the crew is one of the wings that will help Luffy become the Pirate King. I think people are trying to look for a deeper hidden meaning that doesn't exist, the quote is not power level related at all because every member of the crew counts as one wing.

 

[RexaZii]

2200 vs 2180 what’s so hard for you to understand Zorofanboy?

Its easy to understand sanjitard, here Kaku power was measured without his swords powers nor skills. It was his pure power only, and kaku is a swordman he tottally rely on his swords, so 2200 means Zoro without his swords =< Sanji.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I interpreted that quote as each member of the crew is one of the wings that will help Luffy become the Pirate King. I think people are trying to look for a deeper hidden meaning that doesn't exist, the quote is not power level related at all.

It was given in an SBS. It’s not looking when it’s a callback.

Otherwise Robin would’ve said he’s a Nakama of the future king of the pirates.

 

[Shanal]

@Shanal

The only correct way to look at it is that Zoro was, is , and always will be a bit over Sanji in terms of strength and significance.

It's made abundantly clear in TB when both of them are the last two standing, and they get praised for their willingness to sacrifice themselves for Luffy, but Zoro's the one who's allowed to go through with it.

Zoro and Sanji are Luffy's two great pillars of support, the one's still standing even when everything else crashes around them, but Zoro's the last of the two pillars that breaks.

This, pretty much, yeah.

Strength is pretty blatant- Zoro will always a stronger combatant, but that doesn't mean Sanji is weak or shouldn't be grouped in M3. These guys are top 3, and everyone else is behind by a very significant margin.

And their narrative importance in crew is perfectly mirrored by TB, yeah. Both Sanji and Zoro are the ones standing up at the end as Luffy's main two pillars of support and arms- and then Zoro is the one who ultimately shoulders the pain as the last pillar standing and his right hand.

That's what I'd pretty much stick to, as well. Though story-wise (outside the crew) Zoro's narrative importance might've just jumped quite a bit given the existence of Worst Generation alongside their portrayal as forefront of new era, as well as the CoC revelation amongst bunch of other stuff. Will see how that entire plot-line unfolds ig.

 

[Zara]

It was given in an SBS. It’s not looking when it’s a callback.

Otherwise Robin would’ve said he’s a Nakama of the future king of the pirates.

I don't read SBS so I didn't know it was said before.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I don't read SBS so I didn't know it was said before.

Kuro put it in the original post feel free to check it out. It’s vol 73

 

[Kuro Ashi]

I interpreted that quote as each member of the crew is one of the wings that will help Luffy become the Pirate King. I think people are trying to look for a deeper hidden meaning that doesn't exist, the quote is not power level related at all because every member of the crew counts as one wing.

Missing the context entirely

BM's narrative - Sanji is shit because he asked for help

Robin's narrative - It's an honor for me for someone as great as Sanji to ask for my help, because he is one of the Wings of the Pirate King

Robin is puting the "Wings of the Pirate King" above herself

Only when it comes to Sanji will people go to the lengths of inventing 99 wings nonsense and everyone is actually special to dismiss the obvious implication of Wings coming as a pair

You're not the only one who said this @Zara , so this is not really aimed at you but at this notion being spread around in various posts.

 

[notAfanboy]

The endless struggle to prove Sanji => Zoro continues.

Why cant you just enjoy reading OP.

 

[Zara]

Missing the context entirely

BM's narrative - Sanji is shit because he asked for help

Robin's narrative - It's an honor for me for someone as great as Sanji to ask for my help, because he is one of the Wings of the Pirate King

Robin is puting the "Wings of the Pirate King" above herself

Only when it comes to Sanji will people go to the lengths of inventing 99 wings nonsense and everyone is actually special to dismiss the obvious implication of Wings coming as a pair

I don't have anything against Sanji lol, I'm indifferent to him. If anything you're projecting because you're a Sanji fan.

Anyways Luffy doesn't biologically have any wings so you're reaching when you randomly assume that Robin is only referring to two crew members. Each member of the crew is equally special and they will all play a role in helping Luffy become the Pirate King.

If you want to praise Sanji, my advice would be to focus on his feats against Queen because so far Sanji is doing really well. But trying to force this narrative that the wings line is only referring to Sanji and someone else is a reach lmao.