Character Discussion Zoro - The Ultimate - Oda's Most Powerful Character

Is it fair for Zoro to have Asura?

  • Yes, people can handle it.

  • No, it is way too overwhelming.


Results are only viewable after voting.
B

Ballel

#41
Is that going to be an advCoA feat or an advCoC trait. Unlocking CoC can bring some new development to Zoro's character.
Perhaps it involves both haki types.
What I find interesting is that the moment Zoro unleashes CoC his motivation is protecting Luffy whom he tells is his 'captain'.
Zoro, while showing the color of the supreme king, does not fight for his own sake but uses his 'kingly disposition' for someone else's sake.
I think that shows an important fact: people with strong wills and ambitions CAN indeed work together and form genuine bonds of camaraderie .
Being brought to the pirate world stage with Rocks, Kaido does not understand or know about this. The only way Kaido can lead a crew is by overpowering and breaking his subordinates into servitude. The Beast Pirates have no real sense of loyalty as all of them are just defeated pirates who used to have their own crews , before Kaido crushed them into submission.

We saw what this can lead to, see Apoo, Queen deliberately infecting his own subordinates etc. Such a crew as the BP might seem intimidating at the first look just as Kaido's epithet "of the 1000 Beasts".

Taking a closer look, we see how underwhelming they are, both in strength and design (the gifters really take the cake for Oda's most whacky designs to this day).

As we see with the pleasures, whose fate didnt matter to Kaido when he fed them smiles and the waiters , who are considered worthless enough to just sacrifice them with the virus, crewmates are seen as replacable in the BP.

As a stark contrast , there are the Strawhats. Luffy handpicked every single one of them for their skills and does not see any of them as replacable.
The SH pirates are not about 'exploiting' their members skills tho. Not as Arlong back in East Blue called Nami his "tool" for drawing him perfect maps for example.

The SH consider each other genuine friends , hell, Luffy does not even look like a "ruler" most of the time. Various sh members remind Luffy to stay focused and get himself together from time to time, and in some situations one of Luffy's 'subordinates' might even take the lead for a while.

Luffy knows that without his friends he is NOTHING. Each SH member knows that they can trust in their nakama's skills AS WELL AS support.
The trust there is between the SH is a concept so foreign to Kaido he simply doesnt understand their motivations.

As shown in the panel where he says"we xould have ruled the worls together".
Kaido wants to rule, to dominate, to have the world beneath his feet.
His only somewhat-'friend' seems to be BM . The relationship to her is marked by rivalry, actually they kinda 'hate' each other.

This is the difference to Luffy.
Luffy doesnt want to rule anyone. Diesnt want to dominate. Heck, even the grand fleet is something that Luffy didnt want. Where Kaido needs to crush people into submission, people want to follow Luffy out of their own free will.


It's interesting to see the parallels and differences between these two crows and how the themes of loyalty, domination and steenghth are opposites in these 2 crews.
It shows that strenghth is not necessarily the action of dominating anither
Post automatically merged:

Remember kaido saying 'we dont need that many conquerors in my crew'?
Luffy does have another conqueror in his crew. But there is no need to force him into submission. The question whether Z is as srrong as L coes into question once in a while even. Zoro trusts in Luffy and with his ambition and his strenghth he protects him as his captain over and over again.
 
#43
Perhaps it involves both haki types.
What I find interesting is that the moment Zoro unleashes CoC his motivation is protecting Luffy whom he tells is his 'captain'.
Zoro, while showing the color of the supreme king, does not fight for his own sake but uses his 'kingly disposition' for someone else's sake.
I think that shows an important fact: people with strong wills and ambitions CAN indeed work together and form genuine bonds of camaraderie .
Being brought to the pirate world stage with Rocks, Kaido does not understand or know about this. The only way Kaido can lead a crew is by overpowering and breaking his subordinates into servitude. The Beast Pirates have no real sense of loyalty as all of them are just defeated pirates who used to have their own crews , before Kaido crushed them into submission.

We saw what this can lead to, see Apoo, Queen deliberately infecting his own subordinates etc. Such a crew as the BP might seem intimidating at the first look just as Kaido's epithet "of the 1000 Beasts".

Taking a closer look, we see how underwhelming they are, both in strength and design (the gifters really take the cake for Oda's most whacky designs to this day).

As we see with the pleasures, whose fate didnt matter to Kaido when he fed them smiles and the waiters , who are considered worthless enough to just sacrifice them with the virus, crewmates are seen as replacable in the BP.

As a stark contrast , there are the Strawhats. Luffy handpicked every single one of them for their skills and does not see any of them as replacable.
The SH pirates are not about 'exploiting' their members skills tho. Not as Arlong back in East Blue called Nami his "tool" for drawing him perfect maps for example.

The SH consider each other genuine friends , hell, Luffy does not even look like a "ruler" most of the time. Various sh members remind Luffy to stay focused and get himself together from time to time, and in some situations one of Luffy's 'subordinates' might even take the lead for a while.

Luffy knows that without his friends he is NOTHING. Each SH member knows that they can trust in their nakama's skills AS WELL AS support.
The trust there is between the SH is a concept so foreign to Kaido he simply doesnt understand their motivations.

As shown in the panel where he says"we xould have ruled the worls together".
Kaido wants to rule, to dominate, to have the world beneath his feet.
His only somewhat-'friend' seems to be BM . The relationship to her is marked by rivalry, actually they kinda 'hate' each other.

This is the difference to Luffy.
Luffy doesnt want to rule anyone. Diesnt want to dominate. Heck, even the grand fleet is something that Luffy didnt want. Where Kaido needs to crush people into submission, people want to follow Luffy out of their own free will.


It's interesting to see the parallels and differences between these two crows and how the themes of loyalty, domination and steenghth are opposites in these 2 crews.
It shows that strenghth is not necessarily the action of dominating anither
Post automatically merged:

Remember kaido saying 'we dont need that many conquerors in my crew'?
Luffy does have another conqueror in his crew. But there is no need to force him into submission. The question whether Z is as srrong as L coes into question once in a while even. Zoro trusts in Luffy and with his ambition and his strenghth he protects him as his captain over and over again.
I agree with everything you just said! Luffy wants to be the most free person in the world and that is why dominating others doesn't make much sense. His crew will make his dream come true!

Despite obsessively working towards his dream, Zoro is the best when he fights for someone else. CoC is unique for Zoro if it used more as a way to protect other's dreams and ambitions. Not only will CoC give Zoro great combat moments but it will lead to good character development!
 
#44
you do understand "Zoro wasn't all out" should stop at somewhere

so Zoro fans gonna use "Zoro is damaged" until the end of arc?
Zoro clearly explained it himself
He said if they continue fighting, he will only exhaust what's left of him

So when he says this is the best i can do, meaning that's the best attack he can pull off in such state
I mean just check the Attack's Name, it's clearly a last effort attack

A Healthy Zoro not only would manage to do a better attack but he won't fall afterwards & can continue to attack
He was clearly nerfed

I'm not saying Zoro can beat Kaido 1 v 1 because Kaido's Attacks are also dangerous but he was definitely strong enough for Oda to create a Scenario where Zoro wins, that's why he had to nerf him

Not to mention that if Zoro wasn't injured & started with Asura & learned that he have CoC, he will obviously start thinking about it & learn it just like Luffy did in this Chapter or against Katakuri

And Zoro who can imbue every attack with CoC & not just Asura would be huge problem for Kaido, because unlike Luffy's Punches, Zoro have Lethality & Kaido is forced to avoid almost every attack

Asura Zoro also showed that he can blitz Kaido & deliver the attack faster in an exchange between them so imagine a healthy zoro who doesn't fall after Asura

Zoro simply showed AP, Technique, Speed, Strength, Endurance & Haki strong enough to fight Kaido 1 v 1
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#45
pushed himself to ignore all of his weakness ...
He has no weaknesses.
so Zoro fans gonna use "Zoro is damaged" until the end of arc?
Nobody is playing it. You just dont realize what happened in this chapter.
It is not Kaido who managed to best Zoro in CQC and hit him, it is the other way around, Zoro bested Kaido.
All he lacks is firepower to easily end the strongest in the verse. Asura ended up too overwhelming for the nr1.

I am sorry but ultimate Ashura attack would only able to give wound that is equivalent if not better feat than Oden. Also Kaidou didn't even bother to dodge or defend that Ashura attack from Zoro. Hyperboles doesn't make up for lacking facts.
He obviously bothered to defend against it.
There are several clangs SFX effects which means he was blocking it and in the end he tried to club him down and failed.
The amount of damage Zoro did is irrelvant, the relevant part is that in this exchange Zoro's Asura proved too much for Kaido.
The only thing lacking in that scenario is firepower which Zoro will inevitably get or probably already has but wasnt able to use in such state after tanking the greatest attack ever.
Zoro's not the strongest in the verse.
Not atm but he is very, very close to it. Had he more firepower he would have just killed the strongest in the universe.
 
#54
I change my mind. Nik is now number 1 Zoro wanker over Cinera. 😂 Keep doing your thing man.

In all seriousness, Oda has always found a way to hide Zoro's full potential. Theres always something with him. If he had come to WCI, things would have turned out a lot smoother. Now when Zoro gets a clean attack in, hes heavily injured. Oda never puts that guy into an all out situation until facing 2 yonkos. He winds up taking 1 for the team by blocking that monstrous attack and it costed him.

Also no way in heck is Asura "not fair." He wants to become WSS. He should have broken abilities. Im sure Mihawk has a lot of ridiculous moves we havent seen yet. Heck even Shanks! So no... Zoro isnt too strong or overpowering. Hes at where he should be at atm but Oda needs to stop hiding him any chance he gets. Just let him kill people 😂
 
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