Speculations Zoro will get utterly destroyed in a 1v1 by a swordsman before he surpasses Mihawk
- Thread starter Monkey D Theories
- Start date
I've seen this idea going around in the forums that Zoro cannot lose. That somehow, a loss for Zoro is a character regression, or that him losing damages his character. That simply because east blue zoro promised luffy he wouldn't lose, that it would be bad writing for zoro to lose.
Not only do I think this is a dumb idea, I think y'all are setting your self up for disappointment, because Zoro most likely will lose. He will most likely get destroyed in a 1v1 by a swordsman before he surpasses mihawk.
Not only does this make sense from a character standpoint, I feel like there are also some pretty big indicators that this will happen.
So from a character standpoint, when you have a character who wins constantly and never loses, it doesn't make him an interesting character. It makes him a borderline mary sue. And I feel like that's what some zoro fans actually want him to be. They want him to be so strong that he coast through the new world all the way up until he faces mihawk. And this doesn't make sense to me. It would make zoro completely unrelatable.
Losses are important, because it allows us to see how a character acts in a moment of weakness.
if you look at the heroes journey, one of the most important parts is the "death and rebirth", where the character falls to their lowest point in the story. This usually happens right before they face the main antagonist. You can see this in most stories and to a degree, you can even see this within many one piece arcs.
I think that rather than damaging Zoro's character, a loss would do a lot to give us insight into zoro's character. Zoro promised Luffy that he would never lose again. What would happen if Zoro was not able to fulfill this promise? Furthermore, what if Zoro's failure leads to the death of someone close to him, or the failure of the straw hats as a whole? How would zoro react to that? Would he just get back up from it, or could this possibly make him want to leave the crew?
I feel like this is important and necessary character development and is something I guarantee Oda will touch on in the future. But in addition to it just being good writing, I feel like there are other hints in the story that point to this.
Specifically, I am talking about zoro's swords. Currently, Zoro has enma, wado ichimonji, and the sandai kitetsu.
The sandai is a grade sword, and both the wado as well as enma are of the 21 great grade swords.
Zoro will likely get the nidai kitetsu, and replace the sandai with it.
But even if Zoro has enma, the wado, and the nidai, all of zoro's swords would still only be great grade. To be world's strongest swordsman, zoro would undeniably need supreme grade swords. Now one might argue that all zoro would need to do to get supreme grade swords is permanently blacken them, however there is a problem with this.
Zoro shouldn't just have supreme grade swords. After all, there are 12 supreme grade swords, meaning that there are probably many swordsmen who have them. To be world's strongest swordsman, Zoro would need to have the strongest swords in the series. His swords should be even stronger than Yoru. And here's the problem, there are supreme grade swords that are not black.
Murakumogiri, whitebeard's bisento, which is stated to be supreme grade in an SBS, is simply a normal blade. It isn't black, and yet it is supreme.
What this means is that if Zoro simply blackened his great grade blades into supreme grade, they would be strong, but Zoro wouldn't be as strong as he could have been if he got supreme grade swords that weren't black, and then went on to blacken them.
What i'm trying to say is this. The blades that Zoro has right now aren't the blades he will have by EoS. By EoS, Zoro would have obtained supreme grade swords, which he then would blacken, thereby creating a new tier of blade that is even above supreme grade. In order for Zoro to get supreme grade swords, he would need to lose his great grade swords.
Given that both enma and wado have sentimental value to zoro(enma being owned by oden and then given to him by hiyori, with wado being Kuina's sword), he would only give up these blades if they were broken. This means Zoro will most likely suffer a immense loss. One that will ultimately lead to him getting new swords that will make him strong enough to be world's strongest swordsman.
Not only do I think this is a dumb idea, I think y'all are setting your self up for disappointment, because Zoro most likely will lose. He will most likely get destroyed in a 1v1 by a swordsman before he surpasses mihawk.
Not only does this make sense from a character standpoint, I feel like there are also some pretty big indicators that this will happen.
So from a character standpoint, when you have a character who wins constantly and never loses, it doesn't make him an interesting character. It makes him a borderline mary sue. And I feel like that's what some zoro fans actually want him to be. They want him to be so strong that he coast through the new world all the way up until he faces mihawk. And this doesn't make sense to me. It would make zoro completely unrelatable.
Losses are important, because it allows us to see how a character acts in a moment of weakness.
if you look at the heroes journey, one of the most important parts is the "death and rebirth", where the character falls to their lowest point in the story. This usually happens right before they face the main antagonist. You can see this in most stories and to a degree, you can even see this within many one piece arcs.
I think that rather than damaging Zoro's character, a loss would do a lot to give us insight into zoro's character. Zoro promised Luffy that he would never lose again. What would happen if Zoro was not able to fulfill this promise? Furthermore, what if Zoro's failure leads to the death of someone close to him, or the failure of the straw hats as a whole? How would zoro react to that? Would he just get back up from it, or could this possibly make him want to leave the crew?
I feel like this is important and necessary character development and is something I guarantee Oda will touch on in the future. But in addition to it just being good writing, I feel like there are other hints in the story that point to this.
Specifically, I am talking about zoro's swords. Currently, Zoro has enma, wado ichimonji, and the sandai kitetsu.
The sandai is a grade sword, and both the wado as well as enma are of the 21 great grade swords.
Zoro will likely get the nidai kitetsu, and replace the sandai with it.
But even if Zoro has enma, the wado, and the nidai, all of zoro's swords would still only be great grade. To be world's strongest swordsman, zoro would undeniably need supreme grade swords. Now one might argue that all zoro would need to do to get supreme grade swords is permanently blacken them, however there is a problem with this.
Zoro shouldn't just have supreme grade swords. After all, there are 12 supreme grade swords, meaning that there are probably many swordsmen who have them. To be world's strongest swordsman, Zoro would need to have the strongest swords in the series. His swords should be even stronger than Yoru. And here's the problem, there are supreme grade swords that are not black.
Murakumogiri, whitebeard's bisento, which is stated to be supreme grade in an SBS, is simply a normal blade. It isn't black, and yet it is supreme.
What this means is that if Zoro simply blackened his great grade blades into supreme grade, they would be strong, but Zoro wouldn't be as strong as he could have been if he got supreme grade swords that weren't black, and then went on to blacken them.
What i'm trying to say is this. The blades that Zoro has right now aren't the blades he will have by EoS. By EoS, Zoro would have obtained supreme grade swords, which he then would blacken, thereby creating a new tier of blade that is even above supreme grade. In order for Zoro to get supreme grade swords, he would need to lose his great grade swords.
Given that both enma and wado have sentimental value to zoro(enma being owned by oden and then given to him by hiyori, with wado being Kuina's sword), he would only give up these blades if they were broken. This means Zoro will most likely suffer a immense loss. One that will ultimately lead to him getting new swords that will make him strong enough to be world's strongest swordsman.
:laughmoji:
i agree, 10v1 implies 10 people fighting against a person at the same time. Which is not the case for zoro vs killer.
Gyuki just by-stand during almost the entire fight and only interrupted at some point. This was similar to flampe sneaking to attack luffy at luffy vs katakuri. It's not really a 2v1 (katakuri flampe vs luffy) because that implies luffy had to fight both flampe and katakuri during the whole fight.
Why do people downplay zoro's feat here anyway? Killer is part of the worst generation so obviously zoro would have met some difficulties against him. Even luffy, the rising pirate emperor, was knocked down temporarily by apoo
Gyuki just by-stand during almost the entire fight and only interrupted at some point. This was similar to flampe sneaking to attack luffy at luffy vs katakuri. It's not really a 2v1 (katakuri flampe vs luffy) because that implies luffy had to fight both flampe and katakuri during the whole fight.
Why do people downplay zoro's feat here anyway? Killer is part of the worst generation so obviously zoro would have met some difficulties against him. Even luffy, the rising pirate emperor, was knocked down temporarily by apoo
Gyukimaru interrupted THRICE
Zoro was fighting Gyukimaru first of all. That's already different from the flmape situation. Luffy never fought flampe. Get it? 2v1 means the 1 fights BOTH people. Luffy never fought flampe.
Then Hiyori calls for help and Zoro turns his attention and Gyukimaru tries to stab him as he responds to Hiyori. Zoro blocks.
Then Zoro dashes over save Hiyori and as he clashes with Killer, Gyukimaru tries to stab him again, Zoro blocks and pushes both Gyukimaru and killer back.
Then he fights Killer until Gyukimaru tries the back stab the third time and this time Zoro dodges but Killer wises up and stabs him when his attention slips.
Done.
This is vastly different from Flampe since luffy didn't even recognise flampe was there until he got hit. Luffy never fought flampe himself either.
This is more like Doffy vs Luffy and law. In these cases Doffy fights both luffy and law separately and fights them when they do combo together.
That's a 2v1. When simultaneous fights and one after another fights happen all within the same encounter.
That's what Zoro vs killer a d Gyukimaru was. He also fought each other separately like Doffy did and he also fought them when they attacked him at the same time same as Doffy.
You would have to say the Doffy fight wasn't a 2v1 in order to say the Zoro fight wasn't as well.
Simple reasoning no?
Zoro was fighting Gyukimaru first of all. That's already different from the flmape situation. Luffy never fought flampe. Get it? 2v1 means the 1 fights BOTH people. Luffy never fought flampe.
Then Hiyori calls for help and Zoro turns his attention and Gyukimaru tries to stab him as he responds to Hiyori. Zoro blocks.
Then Zoro dashes over save Hiyori and as he clashes with Killer, Gyukimaru tries to stab him again, Zoro blocks and pushes both Gyukimaru and killer back.
Then he fights Killer until Gyukimaru tries the back stab the third time and this time Zoro dodges but Killer wises up and stabs him when his attention slips.
Done.
This is vastly different from Flampe since luffy didn't even recognise flampe was there until he got hit. Luffy never fought flampe himself either.
This is more like Doffy vs Luffy and law. In these cases Doffy fights both luffy and law separately and fights them when they do combo together.
That's a 2v1. When simultaneous fights and one after another fights happen all within the same encounter.
That's what Zoro vs killer a d Gyukimaru was. He also fought each other separately like Doffy did and he also fought them when they attacked him at the same time same as Doffy.
You would have to say the Doffy fight wasn't a 2v1 in order to say the Zoro fight wasn't as well.
Simple reasoning no?
Zoro never lost tho. Are you sure we are reading the same thing? 
And that's not counting the times he got knocked out etc.... Spider monkey rats or whatever at TB, Yeti Cool Brothers.
