Powers & Abilities Enma General Discussion Power-up / Black Blade

[Luffy bin Dragon]

If if wasn't a power up he wouldn't have singled out Enma during his first attack on Kaido.

He mentioned Enma SPECIFICALLY because it has a power other swords do not.

Stop the foolishness

Ask Zoro. He's the one that specified Enma lol.

Yall argue with his own words. Why is it so hard to admit Zoro needs assistance? Everyone does. Luffy does, you don't see his fans crying. Even WB needed help to fight the marines.

This idea that Zoro need to be strong on his own is nonsense. He would have never left East Blue if he only relied on himself.

You know me to be a troll. But you also know he would have never been able to cut Kaido without Enma. Thats a fact now.

This whole time you thought Zoro had better coa than Luffy but we now know that's not true. And you don't like the facts but you have no choice now. Zoro is still a chapter or 2 away from even figuring out Kaido. Rayliegh says haki blooms in battle. No bigger battle than right now. His haki will sky rocket. Be happy with that.

DID ANYONE EVEN READ MY FUCKING POST. ODA PUT ENMA IN QUOTES ANC RNMA DOESNT HAVE ITS OWN POWER

 

[Blackbeard]

First let's look at the Arguments for Enma being a PU.
-It increase Zoros power
-Zoro said he would get stronger
-Zoro said he needed to unleash Enma
1. Now let's look at this one which I consider to be the weakest.
Zoro could always cut cliffs and mountains as a matter of fact he cut a cliff bugger than the one he cut with Enma with Sandai Kitetsu, his lowest graded sword, on PH so we know Zoro has the haki necessary to do these things

The difference between the sandai and Enma cut is that. For Sandai he was trying to cut the cliff but for Enma he simply wanted to cut a tree.

I Know this may sound better but throughout one piece more power at the expense of control and skill has been disdained by master swordsmen

So we know Zoro has the ability to cut cliffs and such so it didnt boost his power and even if it did it would go against being a swordsman.

2. Zoro said he would get stronger. This the most logical argument but it still fails to prove Enma is a PU because Zoro said he would get stronger once he gets used to Enma not instantly which a big part of every PU

How does Zoro get stronger by using Enma I ask the opposition? That's right by training his haki control. And if you consider that a PU you must consider weights a PU and if you do this discussion is a waste because we cant agree on the basic terminology.
3. Zoro said Enma's Power
Now this is just laughable. A told by kitetsu a master swordsmith Enma has no power of it's own it takes a lot of the wielders ryou so all enmas power is zoros power

And to even debunk this Oda puts Enma in quotes showing he doesnt agree with it being enmas power

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No they're fitness dumbbells, would your muscles disappear if you threw away the dumbbells after training with it? Enma will only be a true power-up when Zoro himself blackens and upgrades it to supreme-grade.

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

No they're fitness dumbbells, would your muscles disappear if you threw away the dumbbells after training with it? Enma will only be a true power-up when Zoro himself blackens and upgrades it to supreme-grade.

Yeah my thoughts exactly

 

[trav]

let's assume Zoro is a great sharpshooter

I will humor you

and Enma is a really really great gun

it is. its as great as Shusui was.

the gun makes the sharpshooter performance better ... we all know this ... weapon matter

the sharpshooter remains the same and you compare two guns of equal quality with each other.
imagine one gun shoots further while the other one is more precise. you can not say which is better. they are different and better than the other at different things.
thats for your gun analogy. so far even lower grade blades like Tsubashiri or Sandai Kitetsu were behaving the exact same way as higher grade blades did. once Zoro learned how to use each, that is.

and Enma can put Zoro's Haki in better use therefore giving him more firepower

it can not and does not.
the wording is very clear in this case. Enma forces one to use EXCESSIVE amounts of haki that cause UNNECESSARILY large strikes.
to give you an analogy of my own, Enma forces the weilder to start a marathon with a sprint. this is highly undesirable and is detrimental to the overall performance.
characters only have so much haki to go arround. if Enma uses up all of the characters haki in the first blow that character is not going to last long in a fight.
if Enmas gimmick to waste energy is left unchecked its not beneficial at all. its the weilder that makes this blade even usable.
once Enma is under full control it can be used like any other sword.
Ame no Habakiri was not doing any worse than Enma now, was it?

and what makes you think that Zoro is unable to force out that much haki on his own?
(he would never do that, as I pointed out, its an idiotic thing to do)

but lets assume Enma really does increase firepower. what changes then and how does it do that?
Enma allows Zoro to use larger amounts of haki in a shorter time. he would also tire very fast. haki is not infinite.
is that a power up to you? getting more AP while sacrificing stamina?

at best this is a shift in stats, but never a power up.

 

[stairs-kun]

I will humor you

it is. its as great as Shusui was.

the sharpshooter remains the same and you compare two guns of equal quality with each other.
imagine one gun shoots further while the other one is more precise. you can not say which is better. they are different and better than the other at different things.
thats for your gun analogy. so far even lower grade blades like Tsubashiri or Sandai Kitetsu were behaving the exact same way as higher grade blades did. once Zoro learned how to use each, that is.

it can not and does not.
the wording is very clear in this case. Enma forces one to use EXCESSIVE amounts of haki that cause UNNECESSARILY large strikes.
to give you an analogy of my own, Enma forces the weilder to start a marathon with a sprint. this is highly undesirable and is detrimental to the overall performance.
characters only have so much haki to go arround. if Enma uses up all of the characters haki in the first blow that character is not going to last long in a fight.
if Enmas gimmick to waste energy is left unchecked its not beneficial at all. its the weilder that makes this blade even usable.
once Enma is under full control it can be used like any other sword.
Ame no Habakiri was not doing any worse than Enma now, was it?

and what makes you think that Zoro is unable to force out that much haki on his own?
(he would never do that, as I pointed out, its an idiotic thing to do)

but lets assume Enma really does increase firepower. what changes then and how does it do that?
Enma allows Zoro to use larger amounts of haki in a shorter time. he would also tire very fast. haki is not infinite.
is that a power up to you? getting more AP while sacrificing stamina?

at best this is a shift in stats, but never a power up.

 

[nik87]

That's close enough to what he should have said - gotta unleash more haki.
Why he singled out Enma is beyond me.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

That's close enough to what he should have said - gotta unleash more haki.
Why he singled out Enma is beyond me.

Read my post on this.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zoro-is-holding-back-then.10329/post-998600

 

[nik87]

Read my post on this.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zoro-is-holding-back-then.10329/post-998600

Plenty of things in there that I disagree with.
Like someone said, if Enma were that much of a burden, he could just sheath it away and use Nitoryu style and go all out just fine.
As trav has explained, for Zoro to be an effective combatant, he needs to last long instead of collapsing after couple of slashes bcs Enma...
Next chapters focusing on the battle of monsters will clear it up.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

It's a power-up
ZoLo fan(atics) will deny it but they fans of ZoLo(!) their opinions don't matter.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

As trav has explained, for Zoro to be an effective combatant, he needs to last long instead of collapsing after couple of slashes bcs Enma..

That's why he trained.. to not get collapsed.

And i dont believe he will either, only time there's chance he might is after his infamous slash on Kaidou. We will see about that.

Like someone said, if Enma were that much of a burden, he could just sheath it away and use Nitoryu style and go all out just fine.

Why? It helps him gets much stronger. He can enhance his attacks when he wants to and that's what he need right now against Kaidou.

Plus better his control gets over Enma and Haki flow, the sooner he will outgrow the need of this sword Enma to make stronger Slashes. It's very effective method to improve his Haki control tremendously.

 

[Finalbeta]

It's a power-up
ZoLo fan(atics) will deny it but they fans of ZoLo(!) their opinions don't matter.

Depends on what it is intended by power up. And if you go by standard vocabulary. Even then the topic is controversial.

 

[nik87]

That's why he is training to not get collapsed.
And i dont believe he will either, only time there's chance he might is after his infamous slash on Kaidou.

They are fighting 2 Emperors... If he doesnt have it under control, he is fked...

Why? It helps him gets stronger. He can enhance his attacks when he wants to and that's what he need right now against Kaidou.
Plus better his control gets over Enma and Haki flow, the sooner he will outgrow the need of this sword Enma to make those Slashes. It's very effective method to improve his Haki control tremendously.

But it doesnt... He can enhance his attacks without Enma. He cant do it with Enma except for, as trav said, trading for stamina and not lasting long, which he surely doesnt want. He can put Enma away and enhance his Nitoryu just fine as he always did...
He can already make those slashes without Enma, he did them long before it.
That's all assuming that Enma still represents a problem which I think it doesnt and his comment is pointless, we will see next chapter.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

Depends on what it is intended by power up. And if you go by standard vocabulary. Even then the topic is controversial.

 

[Geo]

People seem to forget that Enma is a replacement sword not an added sword. It replaced another sword of the same rank in Shusui. If it was a sword of higher rank , then it would be a power up just like Shusui was when Zoro got it because it was a higher grade sword.
So in the exchange, Zoro lost Shusui's durability boost to gain Enma's Ryou sucking. Where in that exchange people see a power up is lost to me

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

They are fighting 2 Emperors... If he doesnt have it under control, he is fked...

I didn't say he can't control it, i said he hasn't perfected it completely. There's difference in both.

Hence i said, he won't collapse atleast not until he has done his part in the battle.

That's why he trained.. to not get collapsed.

And i dont believe he will either, only time there's chance he might is after his infamous slash on Kaidou

It is also expected some if not all of them will fall at some point during the fight. So it works out, especially if BM leaves the stage.

But it doesnt... He can enhance his attacks without Enma

He can already make those slashes without Enma, he did them long before it.

I think you completely missed my point..

Zoro can always redo DR feat, slightly better since his Haki control has also improved.
But Enma allows him to do much better when he wants it to.

That's why i showed Mihawk slash, Roger vs WB clash that DR slashes ain't Zoro's limit. Zoro still had to be launched at Pica to cut him, Mihawk slashed iceberg from miles away casually.
My point being The more haki you have on your swords/use in your attacks the better the attacks, and we saw the max Haki Zoro ever had was with Enma.
That's the advantage Enma provides, it also helps improve Zoro control over his swords and Haki.

He cant do it with Enma except for, as trav said, trading for stamina and not lasting long, which he surely doesnt want

Why not? Do he needs to fight Kaidou for days or to harm him/try to finish him in one go if he can?

Actually also tell me, if Enma only hinder Zoro why he is fighting with Enma right now then?
If all it's purpose was to better Zoro Haki control during the training that's been done, right?
Why didn't Oda trade his sword back after that training? Why didn't have him find Nidai Kitestu or temporarily borrow Shishui back? Oda could have easily done that.

Simple logic, if there's drawback there's also the benefit.
If Zoro currently has Enma despite the drawbacks and difficultlies, that's because he needs it and it will help him.

So No the comment isn't pointless. It highlights the importance of Enma over other swords in this Kaidou fight/the buildup feat.

his comment is pointless

If all 3 swords harm Kaidou, then i will agree yes the comment was pointless.

 

[nik87]

If all 3 swords harm Kaidou, then i will agree yes the comment was pointless.

That's what we should focus on.

What Enma allows him to do, that he couldnt do himself, is to get drained more than it's possible than without Enma aka get shriveled up. That opens another can of worms - why didnt he shrivel up when he made far bigger slashes against Pica compared to the coast one?

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

That's what we should focus on.

What Enma allows him to do, that he couldnt do himself, is to get drained more than it's possible than without Enma aka get shriveled up. That opens another can of worms - why didnt he shrivel up when he made far bigger slashes against Pica compared to the coast one?

Aight

Only way it make sense is to assume Enma sucked out all Haki from Right arm(not entire body).

Note:- This panel is after the cliff attack.

While in DR his body didn't shrivel so my guess is he still had adequate Haki in his Body then.

 

[Roronoa-sama]

In the last chapter what would happen if zoro use the same haki as this video

 

[imacub]

the video aint working bud

 

[Worst]

Kaido wouldn't feel anything and Zoro would faint