Powers & Abilities Enma General Discussion Power-up / Black Blade
- Thread starter Lukegranders
- Start date
First let's look at the Arguments for Enma being a PU.
-It increase Zoros power
-Zoro said he would get stronger
-Zoro said he needed to unleash Enma
1. Now let's look at this one which I consider to be the weakest.
Zoro could always cut cliffs and mountains as a matter of fact he cut a cliff bugger than the one he cut with Enma with Sandai Kitetsu, his lowest graded sword, on PH so we know Zoro has the haki necessary to do these things
The difference between the sandai and Enma cut is that. For Sandai he was trying to cut the cliff but for Enma he simply wanted to cut a tree.
I Know this may sound better but throughout one piece more power at the expense of control and skill has been disdained by master swordsmen
So we know Zoro has the ability to cut cliffs and such so it didnt boost his power and even if it did it would go against being a swordsman.
2. Zoro said he would get stronger. This the most logical argument but it still fails to prove Enma is a PU because Zoro said he would get stronger once he gets used to Enma not instantly which a big part of every PU
How does Zoro get stronger by using Enma I ask the opposition? That's right by training his haki control. And if you consider that a PU you must consider weights a PU and if you do this discussion is a waste because we cant agree on the basic terminology.
3. Zoro said Enma's Power
Now this is just laughable. A told by kitetsu a master swordsmith Enma has no power of it's own it takes a lot of the wielders ryou so all enmas power is zoros power
And to even debunk this Oda puts Enma in quotes showing he doesnt agree with it being enmas power
-It increase Zoros power
-Zoro said he would get stronger
-Zoro said he needed to unleash Enma
1. Now let's look at this one which I consider to be the weakest.
Zoro could always cut cliffs and mountains as a matter of fact he cut a cliff bugger than the one he cut with Enma with Sandai Kitetsu, his lowest graded sword, on PH so we know Zoro has the haki necessary to do these things
The difference between the sandai and Enma cut is that. For Sandai he was trying to cut the cliff but for Enma he simply wanted to cut a tree.
I Know this may sound better but throughout one piece more power at the expense of control and skill has been disdained by master swordsmen
So we know Zoro has the ability to cut cliffs and such so it didnt boost his power and even if it did it would go against being a swordsman.
2. Zoro said he would get stronger. This the most logical argument but it still fails to prove Enma is a PU because Zoro said he would get stronger once he gets used to Enma not instantly which a big part of every PU
How does Zoro get stronger by using Enma I ask the opposition? That's right by training his haki control. And if you consider that a PU you must consider weights a PU and if you do this discussion is a waste because we cant agree on the basic terminology.
3. Zoro said Enma's Power
Now this is just laughable. A told by kitetsu a master swordsmith Enma has no power of it's own it takes a lot of the wielders ryou so all enmas power is zoros power
And to even debunk this Oda puts Enma in quotes showing he doesnt agree with it being enmas power
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@yunzabit heights
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@Don DaSlayer
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@Master OF Haki
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@Admiral Lee Hung
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@yorosenpai
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@Kiwipom
@zorojurou
@Chrono
@HA001
@Sadistic Senpai
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@MarineHQ62
@KenshiraSonata
@Erkan12
@Buusatan94
@Celestial D. Dragon
@Gauntlet
@Trafalgar_D_Law
@rerere
@Midnight Delight
@Xlaw
@Garps tekkai
@Pantheos
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@Sanji D Cook
I will humor you
it is. its as great as Shusui was.
the sharpshooter remains the same and you compare two guns of equal quality with each other.
imagine one gun shoots further while the other one is more precise. you can not say which is better. they are different and better than the other at different things.
thats for your gun analogy. so far even lower grade blades like Tsubashiri or Sandai Kitetsu were behaving the exact same way as higher grade blades did. once Zoro learned how to use each, that is.
it can not and does not.
the wording is very clear in this case. Enma forces one to use EXCESSIVE amounts of haki that cause UNNECESSARILY large strikes.
to give you an analogy of my own, Enma forces the weilder to start a marathon with a sprint. this is highly undesirable and is detrimental to the overall performance.
characters only have so much haki to go arround. if Enma uses up all of the characters haki in the first blow that character is not going to last long in a fight.
if Enmas gimmick to waste energy is left unchecked its not beneficial at all. its the weilder that makes this blade even usable.
once Enma is under full control it can be used like any other sword.
Ame no Habakiri was not doing any worse than Enma now, was it?
and what makes you think that Zoro is unable to force out that much haki on his own?
(he would never do that, as I pointed out, its an idiotic thing to do)
but lets assume Enma really does increase firepower. what changes then and how does it do that?
Enma allows Zoro to use larger amounts of haki in a shorter time. he would also tire very fast. haki is not infinite.
is that a power up to you? getting more AP while sacrificing stamina?
at best this is a shift in stats, but never a power up.
it is. its as great as Shusui was.
the sharpshooter remains the same and you compare two guns of equal quality with each other.
imagine one gun shoots further while the other one is more precise. you can not say which is better. they are different and better than the other at different things.
thats for your gun analogy. so far even lower grade blades like Tsubashiri or Sandai Kitetsu were behaving the exact same way as higher grade blades did. once Zoro learned how to use each, that is.
it can not and does not.
the wording is very clear in this case. Enma forces one to use EXCESSIVE amounts of haki that cause UNNECESSARILY large strikes.
to give you an analogy of my own, Enma forces the weilder to start a marathon with a sprint. this is highly undesirable and is detrimental to the overall performance.
characters only have so much haki to go arround. if Enma uses up all of the characters haki in the first blow that character is not going to last long in a fight.
if Enmas gimmick to waste energy is left unchecked its not beneficial at all. its the weilder that makes this blade even usable.
once Enma is under full control it can be used like any other sword.
Ame no Habakiri was not doing any worse than Enma now, was it?
and what makes you think that Zoro is unable to force out that much haki on his own?
(he would never do that, as I pointed out, its an idiotic thing to do)
but lets assume Enma really does increase firepower. what changes then and how does it do that?
Enma allows Zoro to use larger amounts of haki in a shorter time. he would also tire very fast. haki is not infinite.
is that a power up to you? getting more AP while sacrificing stamina?
at best this is a shift in stats, but never a power up.
Plenty of things in there that I disagree with.
Like someone said, if Enma were that much of a burden, he could just sheath it away and use Nitoryu style and go all out just fine.
As trav has explained, for Zoro to be an effective combatant, he needs to last long instead of collapsing after couple of slashes bcs Enma...
Next chapters focusing on the battle of monsters will clear it up.
Like someone said, if Enma were that much of a burden, he could just sheath it away and use Nitoryu style and go all out just fine.
As trav has explained, for Zoro to be an effective combatant, he needs to last long instead of collapsing after couple of slashes bcs Enma...
Next chapters focusing on the battle of monsters will clear it up.
That's why he trained.. to not get collapsed.
And i dont believe he will either, only time there's chance he might is after his infamous slash on Kaidou. We will see about that.
Why? It helps him gets much stronger. He can enhance his attacks when he wants to and that's what he need right now against Kaidou.
Plus better his control gets over Enma and Haki flow, the sooner he will outgrow the need of this sword Enma to make stronger Slashes. It's very effective method to improve his Haki control tremendously.
And i dont believe he will either, only time there's chance he might is after his infamous slash on Kaidou. We will see about that.
Why? It helps him gets much stronger. He can enhance his attacks when he wants to and that's what he need right now against Kaidou.
Plus better his control gets over Enma and Haki flow, the sooner he will outgrow the need of this sword Enma to make stronger Slashes. It's very effective method to improve his Haki control tremendously.
They are fighting 2 Emperors... If he doesnt have it under control, he is fked...
But it doesnt... He can enhance his attacks without Enma. He cant do it with Enma except for, as trav said, trading for stamina and not lasting long, which he surely doesnt want. He can put Enma away and enhance his Nitoryu just fine as he always did...
He can already make those slashes without Enma, he did them long before it.
That's all assuming that Enma still represents a problem which I think it doesnt and his comment is pointless, we will see next chapter.
But it doesnt... He can enhance his attacks without Enma. He cant do it with Enma except for, as trav said, trading for stamina and not lasting long, which he surely doesnt want. He can put Enma away and enhance his Nitoryu just fine as he always did...
He can already make those slashes without Enma, he did them long before it.
That's all assuming that Enma still represents a problem which I think it doesnt and his comment is pointless, we will see next chapter.
People seem to forget that Enma is a replacement sword not an added sword. It replaced another sword of the same rank in Shusui. If it was a sword of higher rank , then it would be a power up just like Shusui was when Zoro got it because it was a higher grade sword.
So in the exchange, Zoro lost Shusui's durability boost to gain Enma's Ryou sucking. Where in that exchange people see a power up is lost to me
So in the exchange, Zoro lost Shusui's durability boost to gain Enma's Ryou sucking. Where in that exchange people see a power up is lost to me
I didn't say he can't control it, i said he hasn't perfected it completely. There's difference in both.
Hence i said, he won't collapse atleast not until he has done his part in the battle.
It is also expected some if not all of them will fall at some point during the fight. So it works out, especially if BM leaves the stage.
I think you completely missed my point..
Zoro can always redo DR feat, slightly better since his Haki control has also improved.
But Enma allows him to do much better when he wants it to.
That's why i showed Mihawk slash, Roger vs WB clash that DR slashes ain't Zoro's limit. Zoro still had to be launched at Pica to cut him, Mihawk slashed iceberg from miles away casually.
My point being The more haki you have on your swords/use in your attacks the better the attacks, and we saw the max Haki Zoro ever had was with Enma.
That's the advantage Enma provides, it also helps improve Zoro control over his swords and Haki.
Why not? Do he needs to fight Kaidou for days or to harm him/try to finish him in one go if he can?
Actually also tell me, if Enma only hinder Zoro why he is fighting with Enma right now then?
If all it's purpose was to better Zoro Haki control during the training that's been done, right?
Why didn't Oda trade his sword back after that training? Why didn't have him find Nidai Kitestu or temporarily borrow Shishui back? Oda could have easily done that.
Simple logic, if there's drawback there's also the benefit.
If Zoro currently has Enma despite the drawbacks and difficultlies, that's because he needs it and it will help him.
So No the comment isn't pointless. It highlights the importance of Enma over other swords in this Kaidou fight/the buildup feat.
If all 3 swords harm Kaidou, then i will agree yes the comment was pointless.
Hence i said, he won't collapse atleast not until he has done his part in the battle.
It is also expected some if not all of them will fall at some point during the fight. So it works out, especially if BM leaves the stage.
I think you completely missed my point..
Zoro can always redo DR feat, slightly better since his Haki control has also improved.
But Enma allows him to do much better when he wants it to.
That's why i showed Mihawk slash, Roger vs WB clash that DR slashes ain't Zoro's limit. Zoro still had to be launched at Pica to cut him, Mihawk slashed iceberg from miles away casually.
My point being The more haki you have on your swords/use in your attacks the better the attacks, and we saw the max Haki Zoro ever had was with Enma.
That's the advantage Enma provides, it also helps improve Zoro control over his swords and Haki.
Why not? Do he needs to fight Kaidou for days or to harm him/try to finish him in one go if he can?
Actually also tell me, if Enma only hinder Zoro why he is fighting with Enma right now then?
If all it's purpose was to better Zoro Haki control during the training that's been done, right?
Why didn't Oda trade his sword back after that training? Why didn't have him find Nidai Kitestu or temporarily borrow Shishui back? Oda could have easily done that.
Simple logic, if there's drawback there's also the benefit.
If Zoro currently has Enma despite the drawbacks and difficultlies, that's because he needs it and it will help him.
So No the comment isn't pointless. It highlights the importance of Enma over other swords in this Kaidou fight/the buildup feat.
If all 3 swords harm Kaidou, then i will agree yes the comment was pointless.
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