General & Others Who still thinks Zoro surpasses Oden this arc ?

[Kuro Ashi]

There’s plenty of room to juggle. Luffy doesn’t become PK level if he’s stronger than say, Aokiji. In the same vein, Zoro doesn’t become WSS level if he’s stronger than Oden.


Yeah, what’s the problem with that? Rayleigh wasn’t the WSS either. Mihawk is better than these guys was, and Zoro then needs to be even better than that.

Again, it all comes down to One Piece ending soon, and Oda not giving the Strawhats anywhere near as many big fights as he used to. That isn’t going to change after Wano, we aren’t going to suddenly go back to pre-skip where there’s going to be loads of challenging opponents for the Strawhats to beat. After Wano, that’s pretty much us at the end.


It’s not disingenuous, because Zoro’s goal is not to surpass guys from Roger’s crew. It is to surpass Mihawk. When we look at a guy like Oden’s feats, we shouldn’t be thinking “hm, that’s the pinnacle of swordsmanship.” We should be thinking “wow, if that’s what Oden can do, what the hell can Mihawk, the WSS, who Oda is waiting until EoS to show fully, do?” Much in the same way all of what Kaido will show just hypes up how strong Roger must have been, or how powerful EoS Blackbeard is. Kaido and Oden aren’t the gold medallists here, they’re still just silver. There’s more to look forward to than being better than them.

There’s also the case that we don’t even know if Zoro will get a real fight on Elbaf, so Zoro on Laugh Tale may well be just as strong as Zoro at the end of Wano. For all we know Zoro on Elbaf will get another Monet or Pica that doesn’t overly push him.

It's not about becoming the WSS, we are talking about them surpassing their equivalents in Roger's crew. You take away from Luffy's crew becoming the PK crew, if that's not the moment where they match/surpass their equivalents.

I don't know, this seems silly at face value without even debating, to have this arc be the one where Zoro has already surpassed his equivalent in Roger's crew, and all he has to give a fuck about is his duel with Mihawk really which will likely happen EoS, like maybe even after the Final War.

Like Luffy already has a > PK level crew by the end of this arc ? Is it not this the arc where they establish themselves as proper Yonko crew worthy but we are making a whole step ahead leaping over that benchmark ? As the conclusion of a whole team grouping up to take down a Yonko ?

I recall you speaking about the importance of Luffy wanting his crew to one day surpass Shank's crew, will you just go ahead an conclude that being the case with Wano, without that being a moment on it's own in the story ?

When Luffy surpasses Shanks, Zoro should surpass Ben.

When Luffy surpasses Roger, Zoro should surpass Rayleigh.

The moment that becomes controversial, something is wrong and one should question wether the leap of faith they are trying to take is going too far.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

There’s plenty of room to juggle. Luffy doesn’t become PK level if he’s stronger than say, Aokiji. In the same vein, Zoro doesn’t become WSS level if he’s stronger than Oden.


Yeah, what’s the problem with that? Rayleigh wasn’t the WSS either. Mihawk is better than these guys was, and Zoro then needs to be even better than that.

Zoro would be closer to his end goal than Luffy is to his though, if that´s no problem with you, ok.

Why is surpassing Aokiji not make him PK level? What is this based on?

How do you know Ray was not WSS? Because his blade is not black? Or because Roger was using a sword?

 

[Kuro Ashi]

It seems that we are reaching the point where it's argued that Zoro for Luffy is no longer what Rayleigh was for Roger. So much so that surpassing Ray is a side achievement unlocked multiple arcs prior to even reaching Raftel.

Outstanding first mate of the Pirate King that he would call him Partner is no longer enough. That parallel has served it's purpose, but Ray's no longer a cool toy to play with for some Zoro fans

 

[Fn Lucci]

There’s plenty of room to juggle. Luffy doesn’t become PK level if he’s stronger than say, Aokiji. In the same vein, Zoro doesn’t become WSS level if he’s stronger than Oden.


Yeah, what’s the problem with that? Rayleigh wasn’t the WSS either. Mihawk is better than these guys was, and Zoro then needs to be even better than that.

Again, it all comes down to One Piece ending soon, and Oda not giving the Strawhats anywhere near as many big fights as he used to. That isn’t going to change after Wano, we aren’t going to suddenly go back to pre-skip where there’s going to be loads of challenging opponents for the Strawhats to beat. After Wano, that’s pretty much us at the end.


It’s not disingenuous, because Zoro’s goal is not to surpass guys from Roger’s crew. It is to surpass Mihawk. When we look at a guy like Oden’s feats, we shouldn’t be thinking “hm, that’s the pinnacle of swordsmanship.” We should be thinking “wow, if that’s what Oden can do, what the hell can Mihawk, the WSS, who Oda is waiting until EoS to show fully, do?” Much in the same way all of what Kaido will show just hypes up how strong Roger must have been, or how powerful EoS Blackbeard is. Kaido and Oden aren’t the gold medallists here, they’re still just silver. There’s more to look forward to than being better than them.

There’s also the case that we don’t even know if Zoro will get a real fight on Elbaf, so Zoro on Laugh Tale may well be just as strong as Zoro at the end of Wano. For all we know Zoro on Elbaf will get another Monet or Pica that doesn’t overly push him.

There's an interesting argument there because I think the biggest obstacle by far was having Zoro disappear for a year and a half, when they went to rescue Sanji and flat out didn't have the level to actually fight Big Mom. Coming out of Wano there are tje huge end game fish we know and maybe a few we don't, so I'm thinking we'll see more big fights after this.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Whatever helps you guys comes to grips with the reality of the situation that Zoro did negligible damage after all that shit you guys talked for months like it was going to be a one shot kill....

I never said Zoro did significant damage. Who the gell said he was going to 1 shot him. I am pretty sure its surpose to be end of arc .

 

[Garp the Fist]

Can’t really go through all the quotes I have, so I think i can sum it up with this

I think there is a very, very good chance that the only remaining, proper fight Zoro has in the series post-Wano is against Shiryu, who will have killed Mihawk. That’s due a number of factors, the two most imprtant being Oda’s stated aim of finishing the series soon and the lack of real fights for any Strawhat other than Luffy post-skip.

Am I overly happy with that, no, but it is what i think has a very good chance happening.

What that means for Mihawk is that the majority of his hype will come againt the SSG and in Shanks’ flashback. It might also be the case that Kid and Killer this arc will be hyped as rivals to Luffy and Zoro so that they can then get soloed offscreen by Shanks and Mihawk. Wouldn’t surprise me much either.

 

[Roronoa-sama]

me

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Used to think that post Wano Zoro will be stronger than Oden but now I can Zoro being equal to Oden at best after Wano.

 

[HA001]

Yep he gonna rip open hybrid
Hybrid > dragon

 

[Afroking]

That’s due a number of factors, the two most imprtant being Oda’s stated aim of finishing the series soon

Oda doesn't really plan to end the series soon .
The 5 year comment is just till they reach raftel . Then there is also the last war.

I was going to finish ONE PIECE within 5 years.
Every crew joins before Grand Line. (1- 1.5 year)
Great adventure (3 years)
Final arc (1 year)" Sound Recording (2012)

It is similar to this old comment of his.
The great adventure ends in 5 years and then there is the final arc which even when he planned to have The series last 5 years ,needed 1 year .Imagine now.

 

[Hanzo hattori]

No, only Luffy will be as strong as Oden at the end of Wano

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Yes

 

[Marimo_420]

Who still doesn't?

 

[Cinera]

@Kuro Ashi I now think it's Yes. This is important because I was leaning towards "no" as at the end of chapter 1000.

I will consider Zoro to surpass Oden if he:

• Forges Enma into a Black sword
  • This is something Oden couldn't do
• Lands the final blow on Kaido
  • The Kaido Zoro is fighting is significantly stronger:
    • He has a hybrid form
    • He may have Awakening
    • Oden told him to build his strength
• Kaido says as such:
  • He recognises Zoro as Oden's equal
  • He admits that Zoro could have defeated him in the past
  • He acknowledges Zoro as stronger than Oden

@ShinmenTakezo, @Kuro Ashi: your arguments for Zoro not surpassing Oden this arc would be more credible if:

• Zoro didn't inherit Oden's sword
  • And thus his will
• Zoro wasn't foreshadowed to accomplish something Oden could never do
• Zoro wasn't fighting Kaido
• Kaido wasn't looking for a monster samurai on par with Oden

If Zoro was fighting King, then your arguments about Zoro being Shanks' Benn would have credibility.

 

[Hanzo hattori]

So Shiryu is stronger than Oden?

 

[HA001]

So Shiryu is stronger than Oden?

Yes of course he is
Bb > wb
Shiryu > oden

 

[Cinera]

So Shiryu is stronger than Oden?

Who said Shiryuu is stronger than Zoro?


All of Zoro's 1 vs 1 opponents postskip have been considerably below his level, why would Shiryuu be any different?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Oda doesn't really plan to end the series soon .
The 5 year comment is just till they reach raftel . Then there is also the last war.

It is similar to this old comment of his.
The great adventure ends in 5 years and then there is the final arc which even when he planned to have The series last 5 years ,needed 1 year .Imagine now.

The five year comment isn’t for Laugh Tale, that was a misinterpretation of what he said. It’s for the entire series. Oda’s said in interview after interview that he wants to finish the series in five years. He won’t manage it because of his nature as a writer and stuff like last years covid delays, but it’s his plan. In the SBS answer you’re thinking of, he explicitly answered the question “will OP end in five years” by saying “yes.”

One Piece, post-Wano, is in the end zone.

 

[Finalbeta]

I told you guys not to over hype Oden too much and that Zoro had already surpassed Oden

I was proven so right oh my gosh

 

[Dark Admiral]