General & Others Who still thinks Zoro surpasses Oden this arc ?
- Thread starter Kuro Ashi
- Start date
This is why other fandoms troll back at Zoro's fandom whenever Oda debunked the over-wankery. Zoro fandom said must surpass Oden due to Enma, black blade etc, its destined and narratively appropriate, etc but when its Kaidou who wants to be PK, an inevitable clash, Luffy stated it himself he will surpass Kaidou, Luffy said to Chinjao that becoming PK requirement is beating any Emperor or any admiral, you don't want to accept it. Yeah what foolishness indeed.
If you want to oppose Luffy soloing 4 Yonkou all by himself, its fine. But you opposing Luffy's own requirement of being a PK (surpassing any emperor or admiral in individual strength) is just the same as opposing Zoro's requirement of being WSS which is surpassing Mihawk in individual strength. You're basically values Zoro's strength aspect of dream as absolute while trashing Luffy's strength aspect of his dream.
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Ok, now i understand, but that´s your opinion, no?
I think people care a lot how the Strawhats develop and how they compare to the world and also within the Strawhats to each other.
And for them Zoro surpassing Oden now is the essential thing, not Zoro eventually surpassing Oden, something most people agree with anyway (except the most outrageous haters maybe not).
Hence my point about having certain characteristics we can compare better than ever before. If you want to push it, you can never claim somebody is stronger than somebody else, since it is dependent on individual situations and so forth, but that would make the entire power section meaningless.
I think people care a lot how the Strawhats develop and how they compare to the world and also within the Strawhats to each other.
And for them Zoro surpassing Oden now is the essential thing, not Zoro eventually surpassing Oden, something most people agree with anyway (except the most outrageous haters maybe not).
Hence my point about having certain characteristics we can compare better than ever before. If you want to push it, you can never claim somebody is stronger than somebody else, since it is dependent on individual situations and so forth, but that would make the entire power section meaningless.
Whatever helps you guys comes to grips with the reality of the situation that Zoro did negligible damage after all that shit you guys talked for months like it was going to be a one shot kill.... 
No, it doesn’t imply that at all. I’m talking about Zoro’s path forward, not Luffy’s or anyone else’s.
Oden, for all his hype, is not stronger than Mihawk (or Shanks, for that matter). Zoro > Oden does not equal Zoro > Mihawk. Zoro’s endgoal is not “i want to be stronger than Rayleigh and Oden, the strongest subordinates of Roger and Whitebeard”, it’s “I want to be the WSS.”
After Wano Luffy and Zoro need to be strong enough that they will be able to be pushing on to their end goals. That’s surpassing Roger for Luffy- it’s not surpassing Oden for Zoro. Luffy post Wano should be a great pirate, ready to meet Shanks, and thus able to fight any top tier in the world, beating some, losing to others, so not yet at Roger (or his rival Whitebeard) level.
Zoro needs to be in the same boat for swordsmen. In among the top of the pile, including the swordsmen who are top tier, able to fight any of them, not yet at Mihawk (or his rival Shanks’) level. Zoro can come out of Wano => Oden and still not be the WSS. Much like Luffy can come out of Wano => Big Mom and not yet be Roger level.
Despite Oden’s feats and portrayal, I don’t think he’s as strong as Shanks or Mihawk, regardless of him being in Kaido’s five with Shanks. Much in the same way I don’t think Shanks being there with Roger and Whitebeard makes him as strong as they were. Or, in the same vein, how I don’t think Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law are all equals just because they are the five pirates currently on the roof top.
Oden, for all his hype, is not stronger than Mihawk (or Shanks, for that matter). Zoro > Oden does not equal Zoro > Mihawk. Zoro’s endgoal is not “i want to be stronger than Rayleigh and Oden, the strongest subordinates of Roger and Whitebeard”, it’s “I want to be the WSS.”
After Wano Luffy and Zoro need to be strong enough that they will be able to be pushing on to their end goals. That’s surpassing Roger for Luffy- it’s not surpassing Oden for Zoro. Luffy post Wano should be a great pirate, ready to meet Shanks, and thus able to fight any top tier in the world, beating some, losing to others, so not yet at Roger (or his rival Whitebeard) level.
Zoro needs to be in the same boat for swordsmen. In among the top of the pile, including the swordsmen who are top tier, able to fight any of them, not yet at Mihawk (or his rival Shanks’) level. Zoro can come out of Wano => Oden and still not be the WSS. Much like Luffy can come out of Wano => Big Mom and not yet be Roger level.
Despite Oden’s feats and portrayal, I don’t think he’s as strong as Shanks or Mihawk, regardless of him being in Kaido’s five with Shanks. Much in the same way I don’t think Shanks being there with Roger and Whitebeard makes him as strong as they were. Or, in the same vein, how I don’t think Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law are all equals just because they are the five pirates currently on the roof top.
If Oden is a solid top tier and Zoro surpasses him, then Zoro is more than a solid top tier. There's not that much room to juggle here with having the cake and eating it too.
Zoro surpassing Oden already this arc, pretty much puts him in the same boat as Luffy where he beats some top tiers and loses to some.
That's assuming Oden as as strong as his hype might seem to imply. And i think you seem to imply as well since you say he's Zoro/s equivalent in Roger's crew alongside Rayleigh.
Are you not basicaly advocating Prime Oden = Prime Ray, and so Zoro already surpasses Prime Ray by the end of this arc ?
The way i see it, it makes sense for them to surpass their equivalents from Roger's crew at the same time, And in Zoro's case doing that during the Raftel Arc, to say that after he has surpassed Ray/Oden he is not more than a formidable candidate to fight Mihawk for his title would be disingenous.
Zoro surpassing Oden already this arc, pretty much puts him in the same boat as Luffy where he beats some top tiers and loses to some.
That's assuming Oden as as strong as his hype might seem to imply. And i think you seem to imply as well since you say he's Zoro/s equivalent in Roger's crew alongside Rayleigh.
Are you not basicaly advocating Prime Oden = Prime Ray, and so Zoro already surpasses Prime Ray by the end of this arc ?
The way i see it, it makes sense for them to surpass their equivalents from Roger's crew at the same time, And in Zoro's case doing that during the Raftel Arc, to say that after he has surpassed Ray/Oden he is not more than a formidable candidate to fight Mihawk for his title would be disingenous.
There’s plenty of room to juggle. Luffy doesn’t become PK level if he’s stronger than say, Aokiji. In the same vein, Zoro doesn’t become WSS level if he’s stronger than Oden.
Yeah, what’s the problem with that? Rayleigh wasn’t the WSS either. Mihawk is better than these guys was, and Zoro then needs to be even better than that.
Again, it all comes down to One Piece ending soon, and Oda not giving the Strawhats anywhere near as many big fights as he used to. That isn’t going to change after Wano, we aren’t going to suddenly go back to pre-skip where there’s going to be loads of challenging opponents for the Strawhats to beat. After Wano, that’s pretty much us at the end.
It’s not disingenuous, because Zoro’s goal is not to surpass guys from Roger’s crew. It is to surpass Mihawk. When we look at a guy like Oden’s feats, we shouldn’t be thinking “hm, that’s the pinnacle of swordsmanship.” We should be thinking “wow, if that’s what Oden can do, what the hell can Mihawk, the WSS, who Oda is waiting until EoS to show fully, do?” Much in the same way all of what Kaido will show just hypes up how strong Roger must have been, or how powerful EoS Blackbeard is. Kaido and Oden aren’t the gold medallists here, they’re still just silver. There’s more to look forward to than being better than them.
There’s also the case that we don’t even know if Zoro will get a real fight on Elbaf, so Zoro on Laugh Tale may well be just as strong as Zoro at the end of Wano. For all we know Zoro on Elbaf will get another Monet or Pica that doesn’t overly push him.
Yeah, what’s the problem with that? Rayleigh wasn’t the WSS either. Mihawk is better than these guys was, and Zoro then needs to be even better than that.
Again, it all comes down to One Piece ending soon, and Oda not giving the Strawhats anywhere near as many big fights as he used to. That isn’t going to change after Wano, we aren’t going to suddenly go back to pre-skip where there’s going to be loads of challenging opponents for the Strawhats to beat. After Wano, that’s pretty much us at the end.
It’s not disingenuous, because Zoro’s goal is not to surpass guys from Roger’s crew. It is to surpass Mihawk. When we look at a guy like Oden’s feats, we shouldn’t be thinking “hm, that’s the pinnacle of swordsmanship.” We should be thinking “wow, if that’s what Oden can do, what the hell can Mihawk, the WSS, who Oda is waiting until EoS to show fully, do?” Much in the same way all of what Kaido will show just hypes up how strong Roger must have been, or how powerful EoS Blackbeard is. Kaido and Oden aren’t the gold medallists here, they’re still just silver. There’s more to look forward to than being better than them.
There’s also the case that we don’t even know if Zoro will get a real fight on Elbaf, so Zoro on Laugh Tale may well be just as strong as Zoro at the end of Wano. For all we know Zoro on Elbaf will get another Monet or Pica that doesn’t overly push him.