I am the only one who don't like this Manga ?

Do you like Kingdom ?


  • Total voters
    45
B

Ballel

#21
Kingdom is tiers and tiers above One Piss in literally every single aspect. The only thing OP does better than Kingdom is appeal to idiots. One Piece is like Justin Beiber, low quality garbage that appeals to the masses, while Kingdom is like orchestra, high quality art that only appeals to the highest tier of manga fan.
Good. That's your personal opinion. It still doesn't help me as you didn't specify any elements of the manga that you like.
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What does the poll option with the sword mean? Does it mean you like sword(fights) or that you want to kill the thread opener for asking such a possibly blasphemous question?
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#23
Good. That's your personal opinion. It still doesn't help me as you didn't specify any elements of the manga that you like.
I don't have time to elaborate on all of them, I'll hit the high notes real quick. I'll compare Hara to Oda just for comparison's sake, but really Hara is better than almost every other Mangaka in the business. Which is why he was the second highest selling mangaka of 2019 despite not having an anime adaptation at the time, unlike other Manga like OP or Kimetsu no Yaiba who bum sales from their anime adaptations instead of just being that good by their own merit.

Worldbuilding-Kingdom has the advantage of being based on actual historical events, which means the worldbuilding is extremely engaging and high quality. In a series like OP, the worldbuilding is pretty terrible because most of the islands and stories are all like separate worlds and stories that have nothing to do with each other, but in Kingdom, the world of China is heavily interconnected which adds to the sense that you are reading a living, breathing world, and not just a series of random unrelated islands all connected by their manga sharing the same title.

The Action-Kingdom has some of the most intense action scenes in manga. Whether this is in terms of 1v1 fights or grander battles. There are many reasons for this, but to list just a few: Hara is not afraid to kill off characters like Oda is, giving every action scene a real sense of extreme tension because anyone can die at any time. Hara is not afraid to have other characters shine aside from his main protagonist. Shin is rarely the one to achieve the best feats in any war that takes place, in fact I think the only war Shin actually had the best achievements in was the most recent one. This leads to other characters all getting their moments to shine and all of them having extreme hype moments instead of Shin just being a Chinese Jesus like other series like Naruto and OP. Shin has real rivals in Kingdom in Ouhon and Mouten, Luffy has cheerleaders in OP who exist to make Luffy look better. In Kingdom, Shin legit feels like he is lagging far behind his rivals most of the time. Hara also doesn't have characters survive fatal injuries like Oda does. A character takes a fatal injury in Kingdom? Hara kills them. There is no ridiculous Pell surviving a nuke bullshit or Pound surviving Oven's glaive to the back of his head. Hara's power levels are also extremely consistent where Oda's power levels feel like Oda is suffering from dementia 30% of the time.

Story progression-Hara is not afraid to show his top tiers going all out right from the start, unlike Oda. Oda builds hype for characters by just leaving their abilities a complete mystery (lazy), Hara builds hype for characters by showing their full strength right from the start and then taking interesting plot turns with them (brilliant). Every character in Kingdom has character arcs that take place, Oda's manga is full of static characters who never go through any development. The way that Hara progresses the strength level of his characters is also much better than the way Oda does it. The way Oda makes characters stronger is just by repeatedly giving them powerups and leaving the reader to just take a random guess at how close they are to their opponents because again, Oda doesn't clarify how strong his top tiers are, leaving readers to just guess about how close Luffy is supposed to be to his opponents. Hara shows his top tiers going all out right from the start, so that when Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten receive powerups, the reader is directly aware of how they compare to the top tiers of the manga and how close they are to reaching that level, which makes their growth and development much more rewarding instead of just completely random like it is in One Piece.

Female characters-Hara has straight up the most well developed, most badass, and most respectable female portrayal in any manga. I won't elaborate here.

This was just a general, unstructured post but the reasons why Hara dunks on Oda are numerous. It's like I said, even with Oda having an anime to increase his manga sales, and OP being in the middle of it's most hyped arc of all time, Kingdom still smashed OP in sales in 2019, we'll see what happens for 2020.
 
#24
Some of y'all definitely didn't see Coalition Invasion Arc then.:rolaugh:That arc alone >>>>>> Every OP arcs.:sanjimeh:
I don't have time to elaborate on all of them, I'll hit the high notes real quick. I'll compare Hara to Oda just for comparison's sake, but really Hara is better than almost every other Mangaka in the business. Which is why he was the second highest selling mangaka of 2019 despite not having an anime adaptation at the time, unlike other Manga like OP or Kimetsu no Yaiba who bum sales from their anime adaptations instead of just being that good by their own merit.

Worldbuilding-Kingdom has the advantage of being based on actual historical events, which means the worldbuilding is extremely engaging and high quality. In a series like OP, the worldbuilding is pretty terrible because most of the islands and stories are all like separate worlds and stories that have nothing to do with each other, but in Kingdom, the world of China is heavily interconnected which adds to the sense that you are reading a living, breathing world, and not just a series of random unrelated islands all connected by their manga sharing the same title.

The Action-Kingdom has some of the most intense action scenes in manga. Whether this is in terms of 1v1 fights or grander battles. There are many reasons for this, but to list just a few: Hara is not afraid to kill off characters like Oda is, giving every action scene a real sense of extreme tension because anyone can die at any time. Hara is not afraid to have other characters shine aside from his main protagonist. Shin is rarely the one to achieve the best feats in any war that takes place, in fact I think the only war Shin actually had the best achievements in was the most recent one. This leads to other characters all getting their moments to shine and all of them having extreme hype moments instead of Shin just being a Chinese Jesus like other series like Naruto and OP. Shin has real rivals in Kingdom in Ouhon and Mouten, Luffy has cheerleaders in OP who exist to make Luffy look better. In Kingdom, Shin legit feels like he is lagging far behind his rivals most of the time. Hara also doesn't have characters survive fatal injuries like Oda does. A character takes a fatal injury in Kingdom? Hara kills them. There is no ridiculous Pell surviving a nuke bullshit or Pound surviving Oven's glaive to the back of his head. Hara's power levels are also extremely consistent where Oda's power levels feel like Oda is suffering from dementia 30% of the time.

Story progression-Hara is not afraid to show his top tiers going all out right from the start, unlike Oda. Oda builds hype for characters by just leaving their abilities a complete mystery (lazy), Hara builds hype for characters by showing their full strength right from the start and then taking interesting plot turns with them (brilliant). Every character in Kingdom has character arcs that take place, Oda's manga is full of static characters who never go through any development. The way that Hara progresses the strength level of his characters is also much better than the way Oda does it. The way Oda makes characters stronger is just by repeatedly giving them powerups and leaving the reader to just take a random guess at how close they are to their opponents because again, Oda doesn't clarify how strong his top tiers are, leaving readers to just guess about how close Luffy is supposed to be to his opponents. Hara shows his top tiers going all out right from the start, so that when Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten receive powerups, the reader is directly aware of how they compare to the top tiers of the manga and how close they are to reaching that level, which makes their growth and development much more rewarding instead of just completely random like it is in One Piece.

Female characters-Hara has straight up the most well developed, most badass, and most respectable female portrayal in any manga. I won't elaborate here.

This was just a general, unstructured post but the reasons why Hara dunks on Oda are numerous. It's like I said, even with Oda having an anime to increase his manga sales, and OP being in the middle of it's most hyped arc of all time, Kingdom still smashed OP in sales in 2019, we'll see what happens for 2020.
Get them Major Lee!!!!!!!:datas:
 
B

Ballel

#25
I don't have time to elaborate on all of them, I'll hit the high notes real quick. I'll compare Hara to Oda just for comparison's sake, but really Hara is better than almost every other Mangaka in the business. Which is why he was the second highest selling mangaka of 2019 despite not having an anime adaptation at the time, unlike other Manga like OP or Kimetsu no Yaiba who bum sales from their anime adaptations instead of just being that good by their own merit.

Worldbuilding-Kingdom has the advantage of being based on actual historical events, which means the worldbuilding is extremely engaging and high quality. In a series like OP, the worldbuilding is pretty terrible because most of the islands and stories are all like separate worlds and stories that have nothing to do with each other, but in Kingdom, the world of China is heavily interconnected which adds to the sense that you are reading a living, breathing world, and not just a series of random unrelated islands all connected by their manga sharing the same title.

The Action-Kingdom has some of the most intense action scenes in manga. Whether this is in terms of 1v1 fights or grander battles. There are many reasons for this, but to list just a few: Hara is not afraid to kill off characters like Oda is, giving every action scene a real sense of extreme tension because anyone can die at any time. Hara is not afraid to have other characters shine aside from his main protagonist. Shin is rarely the one to achieve the best feats in any war that takes place, in fact I think the only war Shin actually had the best achievements in was the most recent one. This leads to other characters all getting their moments to shine and all of them having extreme hype moments instead of Shin just being a Chinese Jesus like other series like Naruto and OP. Shin has real rivals in Kingdom in Ouhon and Mouten, Luffy has cheerleaders in OP who exist to make Luffy look better. In Kingdom, Shin legit feels like he is lagging far behind his rivals most of the time. Hara also doesn't have characters survive fatal injuries like Oda does. A character takes a fatal injury in Kingdom? Hara kills them. There is no ridiculous Pell surviving a nuke bullshit or Pound surviving Oven's glaive to the back of his head. Hara's power levels are also extremely consistent where Oda's power levels feel like Oda is suffering from dementia 30% of the time.

Story progression-Hara is not afraid to show his top tiers going all out right from the start, unlike Oda. Oda builds hype for characters by just leaving their abilities a complete mystery (lazy), Hara builds hype for characters by showing their full strength right from the start and then taking interesting plot turns with them (brilliant). Every character in Kingdom has character arcs that take place, Oda's manga is full of static characters who never go through any development. The way that Hara progresses the strength level of his characters is also much better than the way Oda does it. The way Oda makes characters stronger is just by repeatedly giving them powerups and leaving the reader to just take a random guess at how close they are to their opponents because again, Oda doesn't clarify how strong his top tiers are, leaving readers to just guess about how close Luffy is supposed to be to his opponents. Hara shows his top tiers going all out right from the start, so that when Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten receive powerups, the reader is directly aware of how they compare to the top tiers of the manga and how close they are to reaching that level, which makes their growth and development much more rewarding instead of just completely random like it is in One Piece.

Female characters-Hara has straight up the most well developed, most badass, and most respectable female portrayal in any manga. I won't elaborate here.

This was just a general, unstructured post but the reasons why Hara dunks on Oda are numerous. It's like I said, even with Oda having an anime to increase his manga sales, and OP being in the middle of it's most hyped arc of all time, Kingdom still smashed OP in sales in 2019, we'll see what happens for 2020.
Thanks for the long and honest post.
I guess Kingdom still is not for me.
And about popularity, I came to like One Piece long before I even knew that it was popular. That's not really an argument.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#26
And about popularity, I came to like One Piece long before I even knew that it was popular. That's not really an argument.
Yeah it’s not, but there are plenty of arguments as to why I would say Kingdom is better than OP and I listed some above.

I don’t mean to sound so hard on OP, it just annoys me when OP fans blindly advance OP as the best manga when I so heavily disagree with that sentiment lol. Which you didn’t do to be fair but still lol.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#28
Kingdom is tiers and tiers above One Piss in literally every single aspect. The only thing OP does better than Kingdom is appeal to idiots. One Piece is like Justin Beiber, low quality garbage that appeals to the masses, while Kingdom is like orchestra, high quality art that only appeals to the highest tier of manga fan.

Even that said, Kingdom defeated OP in Sales in 2019 despite One Piece being in it's most hyped arc of all time while Kingdom is only like half way through lol.
As a One piece fan I feel insulted with the Bieber comparison
 
B

Ballel

#29
Yeah it’s not, but there are plenty of arguments as to why I would say Kingdom is better than OP and I listed some above.

I don’t mean to sound so hard on OP, it just annoys me when OP yards blindly advance OP as the best manga when I so heavily disagree with that sentiment lol. Which you didn’t do to be fair but still lol.
Well, you DID call it One Piss.
But I think I do get what you mean. From how it sounds Kingdom is more of the realistic type of story whereas One Piece is full scale fantasy and very meta. It's just a very different kind of manga. Oda called it a 'world of dreams' many times, so it's not supposed to be very realistic.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#33
OP world building is not bad at all
OP Worldbuilding is good sometimes, bad at other times, but nonexistent most of the time. The straw that broke the camel’s back for me was when Whitebeard apparently had no idea what was happening in Wano when his “little brother” in Oden (sorry, had to swallow my vomit real quick) was being executed by Kaido.

Like, Whitebeard’s pre timeskip character was about how you don’t fuck with him or his family, or he’ll bring his full strength to fuck you up. But post timeskip somebody fucks with his family Whitebeard is over here like “huh? What? Who? But muh civilians!!” Fuck off Oda.

Imagine worldbuilding so bad that it destroys one of the best characters you’ve written in 20 years. This is Game of Thrones Season 8 level awful.

And Shin vs Houken is very much a typical shonen fight
What the actual? Shin vs Houken is one of the most hype manga moments of all time. Imagine if Oda invented a villain who killed Shanks, Rayleigh, and Garp right in front of Luffy over the course of 3 different story arcs, then naturally progressed Luffy’s power to the point that he became capable of surpassing such a character.

Shin vs Houken had 20 year buildup behind it and was executed pretty flawlessly.
 
#34
I read a chapter I think a couple years ago and really had to force myself through the chapter.
Didn't like it.



Btw In the poll it should be "nein", not "neon" .
I don't want everything on the table right away, maybe it's just me. Imo The lore takes time to explore the plot because how we rate characters heavily depends on that. But you read just one chapter? A rather hasty conclusion for a realistic look on China's warring states period lol.

The story is based on consecutive historical events with a solid world building that develops as the MC begins to interact with the outside world/states, even growing in age. Something i like is the inner/outer conflicts of every character and their motives, what that means? Almost none of the main cast suffers from lack of characterisation. I had to force myself through the first 50 MHA chapters (which was ok btw) before things started to get way more intense and interesting when i became aware of the series' concepts and plot. I guess a final verdict can be given when one finishes the first 4 Kingdom arcs, because that's where one starts to realize where the plot is heading. If you think it didn't deliver after that, then that Seinen is definitely not your type.
 
B

Ballel

#35
P Worldbuilding is nonexistent most of the time. The straw that broke the camel’s back for me was when Whitebeard apparently had no idea what was happening in Wano when his “little brother” in Oden (sorry, had to swallow my vomit real quick) was being executed by Kaido.

Like, Whitebeard’s pre timeskip character was about how you don’t fuck with him or his family, or he’ll bring his full strength to fuck you up. But post timeskip somebody fucks with his family Whitebeard is over here like “huh? What? Who? But muh civilians!!” Fuck off Oda.

Imagine worldbuilding so bad that it destroys one of the best characters you’ve written in 20 years. This is Game of Thrones Season 8 level awful.
Wano is closed country. People can't know what happens there.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#36
OP Worldbuilding is good sometimes, bad at other times, but nonexistent most of the time. The straw that broke the camel’s back for me was when Whitebeard apparently had no idea what was happening in Wano when his “little brother” in Oden (sorry, had to swallow my vomit real quick) was being executed by Kaido.

Like, Whitebeard’s pre timeskip character was about how you don’t fuck with him or his family, or he’ll bring his full strength to fuck you up. But post timeskip somebody fucks with his family Whitebeard is over here like “huh? What? Who? But muh civilians!!” Fuck off Oda.

Imagine worldbuilding so bad that it destroys one of the best characters you’ve written in 20 years. This is Game of Thrones Season 8 level awful.
Lets not pollute the Kingdom section with pure One piece talking but I def think a thread about One piece world building can be cool (I can fight you there lol)

What the actual? Shin vs Houken is one of the most hype manga moments of all time. Imagine if Oda invented a villain who killed Shanks, Rayleigh, and Garp right in front of Luffy over the course of 3 different story arcs, then naturally progressed Luffy’s power to the point that he became capable of surpassing such a character.

Shin vs Houken had 20 year buildup behind it and was executed pretty flawlessly.
The build up was great indeed.

The execution of the fight was below average and one of the worst fight in Kingdom (we already talked about that) : Houken was so much stronger than Shin and yet lose : he put Shin on his knees 100 times, hit him when he was on the ground etc yet Shin even while passing out managed to fight and win with some "weight", weight here was used in a cheap way.
And I don't even talk about teh KyouKai thing after that.
 
B

Ballel

#37
I don't want everything on the table right away, maybe it's just me. Imo The lore takes time to explore the plot because how we rate characters heavily depends on that. But you read just one chapter? A rather hasty conclusion for a realistic look on China's warring states period lol.

The story is based on consecutive historical events with a solid world building that develops as the MC begins to interact with the outside world/states, even growing in age. Something i like is the inner/outer conflicts of every character and their motives, what that means? Almost none of the main cast suffers from lack of characterisation. I had to force myself through the first 50 MHA chapters (which was ok btw) before things started to get way more intense and interesting when i became aware of the series' concepts and plot. I guess a final verdict can be given when one finishes the first 4 Kingdom arcs, because that's where one starts to realize where the plot is heading. If you think it didn't deliver after that, then that Seinen is definitely not your type.
So as far as I understood, Kingdom's story mostly takes place on battlefields and it's about armies facing each other all the time? Right?
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#38
Houken was so much stronger than Shin and yet lose, he put Shin on his knees 100 times, hit him when he was on the ground etc yet Shin even while passing out managed to fight and win with some "weight", weight here was used in a cheap way.
In what way does this make the fight bad? Because Houken was stronger than Shin but Shin was able to win the fight via his greater will and greater attachment to the men of his unit and the ones who came before him? That sounds to me like the textbook definition of a “good” fight. Did you think Luffy vs Katakuri was a good fight despite Katakuri beating the shit out of Luffy for 90% of the fight? At least Shin didn’t receive an arbitrary powerup to defeat Houken but instead defeated Houken by extension of the philosophy that Shin had spent 9 years of actual manga time developing.

Also, Shin didn’t pass out against Houken. He was on the verge of passing out but held on via his attachment to his fallen comrades as well as his aim to become the Greatest General under Heaven. Houken not only had no earthly attachments but also had no real obtainable ambition.

I don’t understand why it’s a bad fight just because Shin won the fight while being weaker than Houken?

And I don't even talk about teh KyouKai thing after that.
Kyoukai is a sour spot on an otherwise masterpiece, I won’t object to you there. The only thing I will say, is criticizing what happened with Kyoukai after Shin vs Houken, is kinda like complaining about the Frozen Straw Hat + Imu reveal. We don’t fully understand either idea yet and it’s kinda weird to criticize them, especially when spirituality has always been an incredibly important aspect of Kingdom as @Owl Ki has Noted.
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So as far as I understood, Kingdom's story mostly takes place on battlefields and it's about armies facing each other all the time? Right?
Kingdom is 50% battles and 50% high quality politics lol. Half of the battles that take place in Kingdom are political/intellectual battles on par with the likes of Death Note.
 
B

Ballel

#39
via his greater will and greater attachment to the men of his unit and the ones who came before him?
This is literally shonen will power thing and nakama power tho.
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In what way does this make the fight bad? Because Houken was stronger than Shin but Shin was able to win the fight via his greater will and greater attachment to the men of his unit and the ones who came before him? That sounds to me like the textbook definition of a “good” fight. Did you think Luffy vs Katakuri was a good fight despite Katakuri beating the shit out of Luffy for 90% of the fight? At least Shin didn’t receive an arbitrary powerup to defeat Houken but instead defeated Houken by extension of the philosophy that Shin had spent 9 years of actual manga time developing.

Also, Shin didn’t pass out against Houken. He was on the verge of passing out but held on via his attachment to his fallen comrades as well as his aim to become the Greatest General under Heaven. Houken not only had no earthly attachments but also had no real obtainable ambition.

I don’t understand why it’s a bad fight just because Shin won the fight while being weaker than Houken?



Kyoukai is a sour spot on an otherwise masterpiece, I won’t object to you there. The only thing I will say, is criticizing what happened with Kyoukai after Shin vs Houken, is kinda like complaining about the Frozen Straw Hat + Imu reveal. We don’t fully understand either idea yet and it’s kinda weird to criticize them, especially when spirituality has always been an incredibly important aspect of Kingdom as @Owl Ki has Noted.
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Kingdom is 50% battles and 50% high quality politics lol. Half of the battles that take place in Kingdom are political/intellectual battles on par with the likes of Death Note.
Never read death note.
 
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