Questions & Mysteries Is it the real Oden or is it a fake? And if it's a fake then who is it?
- Thread starter DarkWitch
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Drawing Oden is the best bet, Oden is dead. But it toke kinamon 2 seconds to drop on his knees and cry oden. So obviously they are not doubting him much. But still you ask, why a dead person? Why not someone else? Simple, Fake oden cant run into real oden, If he drew anyone else running into him would ruin the chances. And its not like he could have drawn any random guy and gained their trust. So if he drawn lets say momo or hiyori and the they ran into real momo how would that work our for him? Thats why he drew oden.
This is what i think copy pasted from the spoilers thread we found out new stuff after but most of it still stands>
Okay guys i think its very likely its kanjuro based on this logic and studying the environment and the nature of the spoilers
Note that i am not saying its not possible its something else but just stating why its IMO likely its kanjuro
* Oden walks in on the scabbards + who ever was healing them
*That means him and who was healing them were not together. Alot of the assumption is that Oden was brought back by Toki and that Toki was the person healing the scabbards, But that cant be the case because if That the case then Oden would have been with Toki from the beginning and healed the scabbards with her. Instead of going in sperate ways.
* Oden is not wearing his war kimono you would think that if hes going to war he would wear his war kimono that he always wore ( I am talking about the style he wore it)
* Oden was shown dying there is no way for Tokis DF to bring him from the dead, So it had to have happened before he died, Either that or he cheated "death" by faking it, This cant be because Oden did stand in a boiling hot bowl for a hour even if he survived he would have had scars on his legs. So for that to happen it must have happened not only before he died but before he stood in the bowl.
* If Toki send Oden to the future there is no reason to send her husband back in time just for him to get tutored and die. If he traveled to the future and saved the future and everyone was alive and safe then him going back to just die would make no sense.
*Oden would have helped the scabbards earlier in the first attempt on taking kaido and not wait for him to weaken them and potentially kill them.
* Oden face expression doesnt feel like hes coming into a war zone but instead feels like hes care free which makes no sense.
* If Oden was going to the future then he wouldnt give his swords away because he would think he will use them again and instead of telling toki to give them away he would have told her to hide them for his return.
*From what we have been shown in the manga Tokis DF cant make people travel into the past but only the future.
- now why is it kunjaro? It would make more sense. First off it would explain these things:
1. Oden kimono being down and up in his usual war style. As a result of him not thinking this is important detail while drawing him.
2. Kunjaro knows about Enma and Ama which would allow him to draw an imitation of cheap fodder swords to throw the scabbards off, This way they would think that its really Oden because he knows about giving Enma and Ame away.
3- It would explain the weird timing. Like i said if it was Oden why not attack Kaido the first time with the scabbards when they were at full health? Instead he waited until they were weak.
4- This is why hes smiling with a weird face expression. Its similar to Kunjaro personality where hes care free and smiling always
5- Would explain why Oden was not healing the scabbards with the person behind the silhouette. And came on his own.
* Then why is Kunjaro doing this?
The only plausible and logical explanation is that Kunjaro realized somehow that the Scabbards are very weak and is trying to lure them into a trap by drawing an imitation of Oden. This could mean Orochi is alive aswell and is in this plan. This would explain the Momo and Ame forshadowing. It would make way for Momo to go fight Orochi and beat him which will make him feel that hes worthy of holding Ame since he inherited it.
This would also mean that the other person is probably not Toki at all, But Probably Hiyori and that Hiyori might confront the fake imitation of her father.
What do you guys think? Does this make sense or nuh?
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This is what i think copy pasted from the spoilers thread we found out new stuff after but most of it still stands>
Okay guys i think its very likely its kanjuro based on this logic and studying the environment and the nature of the spoilers
Note that i am not saying its not possible its something else but just stating why its IMO likely its kanjuro
* Oden walks in on the scabbards + who ever was healing them
*That means him and who was healing them were not together. Alot of the assumption is that Oden was brought back by Toki and that Toki was the person healing the scabbards, But that cant be the case because if That the case then Oden would have been with Toki from the beginning and healed the scabbards with her. Instead of going in sperate ways.
* Oden is not wearing his war kimono you would think that if hes going to war he would wear his war kimono that he always wore ( I am talking about the style he wore it)
* Oden was shown dying there is no way for Tokis DF to bring him from the dead, So it had to have happened before he died, Either that or he cheated "death" by faking it, This cant be because Oden did stand in a boiling hot bowl for a hour even if he survived he would have had scars on his legs. So for that to happen it must have happened not only before he died but before he stood in the bowl.
* If Toki send Oden to the future there is no reason to send her husband back in time just for him to get tutored and die. If he traveled to the future and saved the future and everyone was alive and safe then him going back to just die would make no sense.
*Oden would have helped the scabbards earlier in the first attempt on taking kaido and not wait for him to weaken them and potentially kill them.
* Oden face expression doesnt feel like hes coming into a war zone but instead feels like hes care free which makes no sense.
* If Oden was going to the future then he wouldnt give his swords away because he would think he will use them again and instead of telling toki to give them away he would have told her to hide them for his return.
*From what we have been shown in the manga Tokis DF cant make people travel into the past but only the future.
- now why is it kunjaro? It would make more sense. First off it would explain these things:
1. Oden kimono being down and up in his usual war style. As a result of him not thinking this is important detail while drawing him.
2. Kunjaro knows about Enma and Ama which would allow him to draw an imitation of cheap fodder swords to throw the scabbards off, This way they would think that its really Oden because he knows about giving Enma and Ame away.
3- It would explain the weird timing. Like i said if it was Oden why not attack Kaido the first time with the scabbards when they were at full health? Instead he waited until they were weak.
4- This is why hes smiling with a weird face expression. Its similar to Kunjaro personality where hes care free and smiling always
5- Would explain why Oden was not healing the scabbards with the person behind the silhouette. And came on his own.
* Then why is Kunjaro doing this?
The only plausible and logical explanation is that Kunjaro realized somehow that the Scabbards are very weak and is trying to lure them into a trap by drawing an imitation of Oden. This could mean Orochi is alive aswell and is in this plan. This would explain the Momo and Ame forshadowing. It would make way for Momo to go fight Orochi and beat him which will make him feel that hes worthy of holding Ame since he inherited it.
This would also mean that the other person is probably not Toki at all, But Probably Hiyori and that Hiyori might confront the fake imitation of her father.
What do you guys think? Does this make sense or nuh?
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One thing is for certain, it is not Kanjuro. The person who healed the scabbards was not Oden, but prior to right before Oden showed up, Kawamatsu says he vaguely remembers seeing a familiar face, but it wasn't possible. So it has to be someone they believe there is no way they can be there. If Kiku truly killed Kanjuro, they would know it, and if Kiku spared Kanjuro, they would also know it, so it wouldn't be a shock to them.
There is something I have found that is extremely interesting though. It's a crackpot theory, but hey, it fits. It's possible the person who saved the scabbards, and is mimicking Oden (and most likely mimicked the person who saved the scabbards), might be Orochi.
Now in Japanese mythology, I didn't find anything on the Yamato no Orochi being able to shapeshift into people, but in the Godzilla mythos Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto, who is the Moon god, is a shapeshifter, and he is the one who shapeshifted into the Yamato no Orochi.
So how does this pertain to One Piece? Well in Japanese Mythology, Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto is the child of the God who created the island of Onogoroshima, so the Island holds significance to that specific god.
The Yamato-no-Orochi devil fruit, is a mythical fruit, so it must have some special property to it. Could be possible Oda is taking a page from the Godzilla mythos, and making it capable of shapeshifting.
Orochi has a reason to want the scabbards to succeed in defeating Kaido now that he has been betrayed. They would never side with Orochi for what he has done, but Oden is a different story, and Orochi is senile enough to believe it would work.
There is something I have found that is extremely interesting though. It's a crackpot theory, but hey, it fits. It's possible the person who saved the scabbards, and is mimicking Oden (and most likely mimicked the person who saved the scabbards), might be Orochi.
Now in Japanese mythology, I didn't find anything on the Yamato no Orochi being able to shapeshift into people, but in the Godzilla mythos Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto, who is the Moon god, is a shapeshifter, and he is the one who shapeshifted into the Yamato no Orochi.
So how does this pertain to One Piece? Well in Japanese Mythology, Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto is the child of the God who created the island of Onogoroshima, so the Island holds significance to that specific god.
The Yamato-no-Orochi devil fruit, is a mythical fruit, so it must have some special property to it. Could be possible Oda is taking a page from the Godzilla mythos, and making it capable of shapeshifting.
Orochi has a reason to want the scabbards to succeed in defeating Kaido now that he has been betrayed. They would never side with Orochi for what he has done, but Oden is a different story, and Orochi is senile enough to believe it would work.
The chapter ends on the scabbards reaction, we don't see what happens next. Of course seeing Oden alive would catch them off guard for a moment, for a split second. But soon they'll start to doubt whether it's the real Oden or not. Like I said, you might be able to fooll Kinemon but not the rest, Denjiro himself fooled Orochi fot 20 years and he's not going to be fooled easily. I can guarantee you that in next chapters the scabbards will be very suspicious of this "new Oden" and would need an evidence that that's the real one.
Kanjuro painting doesn't make sense at all, you can make a case for Gykamaru if you find a good reason to why he's doing that, especially when the girl who healed the scabbards was ether Hyori or Toki. So give up on Kanjiro case and work towards Gykamaru, but again, even Gykamaru case doesn't seem right at all, It's out of his character.
Kanjuro painting doesn't make sense at all, you can make a case for Gykamaru if you find a good reason to why he's doing that, especially when the girl who healed the scabbards was ether Hyori or Toki. So give up on Kanjiro case and work towards Gykamaru, but again, even Gykamaru case doesn't seem right at all, It's out of his character.
Real Oden.
Toki awakened her df, with awakening she could send someone in the future temporarily.
So this Oden is the one before he decided to fight Kaido 20 years ago. He helped the rooftop fighters but didn't see the end of the fight because of the time limit.
Back in the past, because he saw that Kaido was still there and what he did to Wano 20 years later, and after hearing what Kaido did to Hyogoro in his timeline (so 20 years ago), he decided to fight Kaido himself. He thought he could change the future by defeating Kaido but failed.
That's why he saved the scabbards for them to be sent into the future and knew that a young generation will fight Kaido in the future.
Toki awakened her df, with awakening she could send someone in the future temporarily.
So this Oden is the one before he decided to fight Kaido 20 years ago. He helped the rooftop fighters but didn't see the end of the fight because of the time limit.
Back in the past, because he saw that Kaido was still there and what he did to Wano 20 years later, and after hearing what Kaido did to Hyogoro in his timeline (so 20 years ago), he decided to fight Kaido himself. He thought he could change the future by defeating Kaido but failed.
That's why he saved the scabbards for them to be sent into the future and knew that a young generation will fight Kaido in the future.
Why isn't he carrying his swords? If he wanted to fight Kaido why didn't he bring Enma and Ame?
Hiyori doesn't fight and she is barely near the battle fild so maybe what surprised him was seeing Hiyori that close to the battle field.
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Guys, do you really think Kawamatsu would be surprised by seeing Hyori?
It was ether Toki or someone pretending to be Toki.
It was ether Toki or someone pretending to be Toki.
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