Character Discussion If Zoro was stronger than Luffy why is he still following Luffy as his subordinate?
- Thread starter Tai long
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@Ravagerblade still posting saltyblade?
Listen, Oda is just teasing the fans about Zoro's position, similar to how he teased about his CoC. Strawhats are very similar to Roger and Shanks crew. Both Roger and Shanks has/had a VC in Rayleigh and Ben Beckmann. You can bookmark this post, Zoro will be recognised as the VC of the strawhats by the entire world/by Luffy, its just a matter of time. It would be in the similar fashion how Rayleigh got his VC of the PK title (we don't know if it was Roger who conferred it, or people just started calling him the VC like Bartolomeo did).
"Zoro is the combatant of the crew, so he is the strongest" is probably the worst take I have seen in a while. Dont get so hung up on powerscaling that you can't see why Zoro is not a mere combatant and the VC of the crew.
Because we are talking in general here. The OP asked why Zoro follows Luffy if he is stronger, that means throughout the series.
Their relative power level fluctuated in the entire series. In Whiskey Peak, they were more or less equal, but there was a clear gap at Ennis Lobby. Even if you see the rooftop battle, Zoro looked better in the first half, but the moment Luffy unlocked adCoC, he is clearly looking superior to me.
Besides I dont always like circumstantial feats, they can be inconsistent, e.g. Luffy getting knocked out by Apoo, Zoro fainting against Kamazou. You can end up to wildly inaccurate conclusions taking every small feats into account. I would stick to their portrayal instead for a general statement.
Thats cool. We know that Zoro was not 100% serious at that moment, .i.e. he won't really leave the crew if Luffy is weaker at some point. In fact, there is a good chance Zoro entered the post-timeskip story stronger than Luffy. Zoro has enough faith in Luffy that he believes Luffy will figure something out to become stronger. So that Fishman Island moment is not comparable to the Water 7 situation when Zoro said he will leave the crew if someone disrespects Luffy.
That said, its pretty clear from that statement that Zoro's expectations from Luffy is so high that he expects Luffy to showcase feats/haki that he himself can't do. Note that, Zoro didn't know about his own CoC at that point of the story.
"Zoro is the combatant of the crew, so he is the strongest" is probably the worst take I have seen in a while. Dont get so hung up on powerscaling that you can't see why Zoro is not a mere combatant and the VC of the crew.
Because we are talking in general here. The OP asked why Zoro follows Luffy if he is stronger, that means throughout the series.
Their relative power level fluctuated in the entire series. In Whiskey Peak, they were more or less equal, but there was a clear gap at Ennis Lobby. Even if you see the rooftop battle, Zoro looked better in the first half, but the moment Luffy unlocked adCoC, he is clearly looking superior to me.
Besides I dont always like circumstantial feats, they can be inconsistent, e.g. Luffy getting knocked out by Apoo, Zoro fainting against Kamazou. You can end up to wildly inaccurate conclusions taking every small feats into account. I would stick to their portrayal instead for a general statement.
Thats cool. We know that Zoro was not 100% serious at that moment, .i.e. he won't really leave the crew if Luffy is weaker at some point. In fact, there is a good chance Zoro entered the post-timeskip story stronger than Luffy. Zoro has enough faith in Luffy that he believes Luffy will figure something out to become stronger. So that Fishman Island moment is not comparable to the Water 7 situation when Zoro said he will leave the crew if someone disrespects Luffy.
That said, its pretty clear from that statement that Zoro's expectations from Luffy is so high that he expects Luffy to showcase feats/haki that he himself can't do. Note that, Zoro didn't know about his own CoC at that point of the story.
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Not one of those examples was the strongest swordsman in the world or the next sword god.
There is simply no other Zoro in history. You are downgrading him by comparing him with Ray/Benn.
While he may have some similarities with them, he is simply not like them.
VC is not an achievement nor is Zoro the greatest VC of them all, he rarely steps in at all.
Plus plenty of other members have done that same job at different occasions.
It is not exclusive to Zoro because he simply isnt meant to be that, since VC is nothing.
Throughout the series... Have you not noticed that Zoro without a single power-up in post TS is performing better than Luffy who got two new gears in G4, advanced CoO, Advanced CoA, advanced CoC? And you tell me that Luffy is the superior of the two? ... Not even close... You are just buying into the CoC hype without understanding it, it does nothing but mimick a weapon... Zoro carried the rooftop battle.
There is nothing inaccurate about Zoro fainting vs Kamazou because he has fainted before from hunger too. The battle was won and he was starving, it was time to finish it, he collapsed with a gurgle in his stomach, just like vs captain Morgan...
Zoro's portrayal is that of the protector, the only one who can protect Luffy and keep his back safe. Saving his ass numerous time on the rooftop and saving him from Hakai couldnt make that clearer. The portrayal is consistent but you simply decided that he cannot be stronger than Luffy for whatever reason...
There is simply no other Zoro in history. You are downgrading him by comparing him with Ray/Benn.
While he may have some similarities with them, he is simply not like them.
VC is not an achievement nor is Zoro the greatest VC of them all, he rarely steps in at all.
Plus plenty of other members have done that same job at different occasions.
It is not exclusive to Zoro because he simply isnt meant to be that, since VC is nothing.
Throughout the series... Have you not noticed that Zoro without a single power-up in post TS is performing better than Luffy who got two new gears in G4, advanced CoO, Advanced CoA, advanced CoC? And you tell me that Luffy is the superior of the two? ... Not even close... You are just buying into the CoC hype without understanding it, it does nothing but mimick a weapon... Zoro carried the rooftop battle.
There is nothing inaccurate about Zoro fainting vs Kamazou because he has fainted before from hunger too. The battle was won and he was starving, it was time to finish it, he collapsed with a gurgle in his stomach, just like vs captain Morgan...
Zoro's portrayal is that of the protector, the only one who can protect Luffy and keep his back safe. Saving his ass numerous time on the rooftop and saving him from Hakai couldnt make that clearer. The portrayal is consistent but you simply decided that he cannot be stronger than Luffy for whatever reason...
Wait a sec. Comparing EoS Zoro to Beckmann is a downgrade, sure. I am also confident Zoro will be greater than Rayleigh, but you are being a bit disrespectful to Rayleigh here. Rayleigh has a dark king title that has nothing to do with being part of the PK crew, he gets compared to legends like Whitebeard.
Being the VC of the PK is a big achievement. In fact, I am not sure which title is more famous in verse, first mate of the PK or the WSS. Nami said she read about Rayleigh in so many books. Sanji said, "Its true. Everyone heard that name at least once".
Luffy also rarely leads the crew by example. But he is pretty good at one thing, and thats fighting. He said to Arlong, "I cant navigate, I cant cook, I cant lie, but I can kick your ass". Similar to Zoro, fighting is the only thing Luffy is good at. Zoro's role is similar as the VC, overwhelming combat strength to protect the crew. There is a reason why Luffy - Zoro are pretty similar characters, they even say the same things.
- "Pirates eat meat and have big parties. But heroes take meat and give it to poor people. I wanna eat all meat"
- "Heroes are people who share their booze with other people. I wanna drink all my booze"
Zoro has his individual goal sure, but we have already seen at Thriller Bak, why he needed to surpass his limits to protect the crew. Thats what the captains or vice captains do in One Piece. They dont assist in navigating, they dont assign tasks for other crews, or plan the daily activities. They are mainly fighters. You are also underestimating the VC of the PK, Rayleigh at his old age and rusty condition stopped an admiral on his track, thats no joke.
Come on now, Zoro displayed CoC too, why are you downplaying CoC for no reason?
Since when did Zoro become so pathetic that he faints from hunger, the same dude who took hakai and thunder bagua and didnt faint? What is this argument?
Bruh, Pica could give Luffy more trouble than people believe, but Luffy would have found a way to beat Pica. And yes, I do buy the hype of the words. Zoro said =>
Being the VC of the PK is a big achievement. In fact, I am not sure which title is more famous in verse, first mate of the PK or the WSS. Nami said she read about Rayleigh in so many books. Sanji said, "Its true. Everyone heard that name at least once".
Luffy also rarely leads the crew by example. But he is pretty good at one thing, and thats fighting. He said to Arlong, "I cant navigate, I cant cook, I cant lie, but I can kick your ass". Similar to Zoro, fighting is the only thing Luffy is good at. Zoro's role is similar as the VC, overwhelming combat strength to protect the crew. There is a reason why Luffy - Zoro are pretty similar characters, they even say the same things.
- "Pirates eat meat and have big parties. But heroes take meat and give it to poor people. I wanna eat all meat"
- "Heroes are people who share their booze with other people. I wanna drink all my booze"
Zoro has his individual goal sure, but we have already seen at Thriller Bak, why he needed to surpass his limits to protect the crew. Thats what the captains or vice captains do in One Piece. They dont assist in navigating, they dont assign tasks for other crews, or plan the daily activities. They are mainly fighters. You are also underestimating the VC of the PK, Rayleigh at his old age and rusty condition stopped an admiral on his track, thats no joke.
Come on now, Zoro displayed CoC too, why are you downplaying CoC for no reason?
Since when did Zoro become so pathetic that he faints from hunger, the same dude who took hakai and thunder bagua and didnt faint? What is this argument?
Bruh, Pica could give Luffy more trouble than people believe, but Luffy would have found a way to beat Pica. And yes, I do buy the hype of the words. Zoro said =>
What is Oda's job? To make his MC_2 another Benn or another Rayleigh? Do you really think that is what Oda wants to do with Zoro?
Do you think any combatant of the long-gone era will be above MC_2 who represents the peak of combat prowess?
What is Zoro's greatest achievement as VC of the Strawhats? What specifically did he do that a VC should do?
Luffy is the best at being a captain, that's his job and he does it very well. Zoro isnt doing anything nor is he ever appointed as VC...
What did Luffy say before he said: "I cant navigate"?
Yes, they are indeed very similar characters, sometimes identical and neither of them is supposed to be a VC. Strawhats have a 2nd captain who never acts upon it, unless the first captain steps out of line and is about to ruin the image of what the captain is supposed to be.
He doesnt compete with Luffy at being a captain because Luffy is simply a better captain. A discipline in which Zoro competes in is the discipline in which he is the very best, in the entire world. Zoro's act on TB is what confirms why Luffy is the greatest captain out there.
Mihawk told us what Luffy is best at, his greatest ability. Combat prowess wasnt it.
As great as Rayleigh is, Zoro is greater. His feats are already the greatest in the whole world and we arent even close to the end...
Same reason why I downplayed FS and aCoA, because it is not impressive. It literally achieves the same stuff what a weapon achieves.
Since always? As I said, in his introduction arc, he fainted from hunger. Just like in Wano, it is nothing new.
Just like he found a way to beat Cracker? AKA he didnt. Sat there for hours, eating biscuits thanks to Nami and letting Cracker do the job of making himself into a projectile... Pica is Cracker, just far worse for Luffy's combat style. Luffy's combat style simply isnt effective.
I dont trust words, I trust actions. Luffy said plenty of things that were lies.
Zoro's words are true in a way, if Luffy never goes into G4, never runs out of haki, Pica cannot take him down.
However, neither can Luffy take down Pica.
Do you think any combatant of the long-gone era will be above MC_2 who represents the peak of combat prowess?
What is Zoro's greatest achievement as VC of the Strawhats? What specifically did he do that a VC should do?
Luffy is the best at being a captain, that's his job and he does it very well. Zoro isnt doing anything nor is he ever appointed as VC...
What did Luffy say before he said: "I cant navigate"?
Yes, they are indeed very similar characters, sometimes identical and neither of them is supposed to be a VC. Strawhats have a 2nd captain who never acts upon it, unless the first captain steps out of line and is about to ruin the image of what the captain is supposed to be.
He doesnt compete with Luffy at being a captain because Luffy is simply a better captain. A discipline in which Zoro competes in is the discipline in which he is the very best, in the entire world. Zoro's act on TB is what confirms why Luffy is the greatest captain out there.
Mihawk told us what Luffy is best at, his greatest ability. Combat prowess wasnt it.
As great as Rayleigh is, Zoro is greater. His feats are already the greatest in the whole world and we arent even close to the end...
Same reason why I downplayed FS and aCoA, because it is not impressive. It literally achieves the same stuff what a weapon achieves.
Since always? As I said, in his introduction arc, he fainted from hunger. Just like in Wano, it is nothing new.
Just like he found a way to beat Cracker? AKA he didnt. Sat there for hours, eating biscuits thanks to Nami and letting Cracker do the job of making himself into a projectile... Pica is Cracker, just far worse for Luffy's combat style. Luffy's combat style simply isnt effective.
I dont trust words, I trust actions. Luffy said plenty of things that were lies.
Zoro's words are true in a way, if Luffy never goes into G4, never runs out of haki, Pica cannot take him down.
However, neither can Luffy take down Pica.