General & Others Proof Zoro>Luffy, and that hate against Zoro is at an all time high.
- Thread starter stairs-kun
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Indeed. The concept is probably still not clear.
Luffy knocked Kaido down because he could rely on a bigger mass force than Zoro did. That's not Zoro's forte, the F = mxa kind of Force, he is more a lethality type, this is not too different from comparing Garp and Akainu except for different ratio and type of style.
Luffy knocked Kaido down because he could rely on a bigger mass force than Zoro did. That's not Zoro's forte, the F = mxa kind of Force, he is more a lethality type, this is not too different from comparing Garp and Akainu except for different ratio and type of style.
S
Truly, I could not word this better myself. They're living in a Zolo-cultist delusion and, even after Luffy in his base-form out-performs Zolo in his strongest, even when Oda has Zolo wrapped up like a blunt and sent down as per Luffy's orders, they'll still be out here putting Zolo above his MC captain. All we can do is shake our heads and see their moans and cries for what they are, depraved delusions that go against Oda and all the obvious portayal & feats he has put to indicate Luffy's superiority over Zolo. I mean, the guy back in Enies Lobby literally put a numerical power-system placing Luffy nearly twice as high as Zolo & Sanji and yet these people think Oda would ever change his ways.
It IS very simple, if Oda really wanted to show Luffy IS above Zoro, this is what he would have done.
Zoro would have make Kaido Scream at best, while Luffy punch Kaido so hard his wound reopen and crush his inside.
Insteed of that he has Zoro perma damage Kaido while Luffy still has yet to do any damage.
That IS it, Zoro scaring Kaido while weakenned and stopping Hakkai if even momentarily realy put him on a highter pedestal than Luffy curently.
No bias, but that is how thing stand for now.
Zoro would have make Kaido Scream at best, while Luffy punch Kaido so hard his wound reopen and crush his inside.
Insteed of that he has Zoro perma damage Kaido while Luffy still has yet to do any damage.
That IS it, Zoro scaring Kaido while weakenned and stopping Hakkai if even momentarily realy put him on a highter pedestal than Luffy curently.
No bias, but that is how thing stand for now.
S
"Zoro scaring Kaido while weakened and stopping Hakkai put him on a higher pedestal than Luffy currently"
K let's not act like Kaido didn't immedietly shrug off Zolo's final attack and continue fighting as usual. Even Zolo himself remarked on how lackluster the attack was, after of which he collapses as Luffy immedietly steals the show, ordering Zolo to go downstairs.
Right afterwards, Luffy in Base form was able to equal Hybrid Kaido in physical strength in 3 different Advanced CoC clashes. The prospect of Zolo being anywhere near Luffy in strength is 0%.
K let's not act like Kaido didn't immedietly shrug off Zolo's final attack and continue fighting as usual. Even Zolo himself remarked on how lackluster the attack was, after of which he collapses as Luffy immedietly steals the show, ordering Zolo to go downstairs.
Right afterwards, Luffy in Base form was able to equal Hybrid Kaido in physical strength in 3 different Advanced CoC clashes. The prospect of Zolo being anywhere near Luffy in strength is 0%.
He did not scrug it off, as proof the scare remained.
On the otherhand he strugged of all Luffy's attack which obviously did not let any damage on him.
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@Shepherd , what do you think Kaido's subordunate will notice first when Kaido appears in front of them? Or Big Mom?
The only proof that Kaido even fought the rooftop 5 are the perma damage done by Zoro.
And ya know they will Ask him?
"who managed to do this? IS it Luffy?"
All of them will be surprised to hear that the only damage did not Come from Luffy but his subordinate, Zoro.
On the otherhand he strugged of all Luffy's attack which obviously did not let any damage on him.
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@Shepherd , what do you think Kaido's subordunate will notice first when Kaido appears in front of them? Or Big Mom?
The only proof that Kaido even fought the rooftop 5 are the perma damage done by Zoro.
And ya know they will Ask him?
"who managed to do this? IS it Luffy?"
All of them will be surprised to hear that the only damage did not Come from Luffy but his subordinate, Zoro.
Yeah and you don't have me saying Asura would have done more damage. The point of mentioning Zoro's injuries is that he couldn't actually keep fighting.
And again, Streussen doesn't compare in any way. I'm not sure what you are still trying to cling to with that
I think a lot of it is kind of a joke. Like the grandmaster stuff, you know? OP doesn't subscribe to power level thinking. There are fights that are easier for one character or another to win so there's no true greater than or less than without a significant overall gap in ability.
That's kind of a weird measure because you're talking about a guy Zoro walked away from and had the strength to keep fighting after vs a guy who pushed Luffy to the point of not being able to move. Even if you take Doriki seriously, it was something measured at base form. So swords didn't count, DF powers didn't count, and in itself it was irrelevant to Luffy because he was immune to Lucci's human offense/striking power.
I don't think the "Is he strong? Watch off!" colorspread was unintentional, I think Gears cemented Luffy in a superior position as a fighter, but I don't think it is still something that keeps any distance between them in ability. Luffy's results are generally pretty overrated by people who don't appreciate context
And again, Streussen doesn't compare in any way. I'm not sure what you are still trying to cling to with that
I think a lot of it is kind of a joke. Like the grandmaster stuff, you know? OP doesn't subscribe to power level thinking. There are fights that are easier for one character or another to win so there's no true greater than or less than without a significant overall gap in ability.
That's kind of a weird measure because you're talking about a guy Zoro walked away from and had the strength to keep fighting after vs a guy who pushed Luffy to the point of not being able to move. Even if you take Doriki seriously, it was something measured at base form. So swords didn't count, DF powers didn't count, and in itself it was irrelevant to Luffy because he was immune to Lucci's human offense/striking power.
I don't think the "Is he strong? Watch off!" colorspread was unintentional, I think Gears cemented Luffy in a superior position as a fighter, but I don't think it is still something that keeps any distance between them in ability. Luffy's results are generally pretty overrated by people who don't appreciate context
I just proved that the implication changed.
Literally what I just proved you wrong on. The statements do not exclude someone not having those haki types from being top tier.
So now it is "being able to consistently use"? Where in the manga is that stated?
Zoro used it, end of story.
Just like how Luffy has been demolished how many times now? Even with his top tier tech, Kaido doesn't count him among the very strongest.....which again proves my point.
Zoro not being aware is irrelevant to him having it. It is confirmed that he imbued his attack with COC, is that not top tier tech?
Guess Oden didn't have top tier COA then , let's add Roger and WB...We NeEd CoNfIrMaTiOn
Literally what I just proved you wrong on. The statements do not exclude someone not having those haki types from being top tier.
So now it is "being able to consistently use"? Where in the manga is that stated?
Zoro used it, end of story.
Just like how Luffy has been demolished how many times now? Even with his top tier tech, Kaido doesn't count him among the very strongest.....which again proves my point.
Zoro not being aware is irrelevant to him having it. It is confirmed that he imbued his attack with COC, is that not top tier tech?
Guess Oden didn't have top tier COA then , let's add Roger and WB...We NeEd CoNfIrMaTiOn
Zoro used his signature 3SS move to put down a vulnerable kamazou with only 1 Scythe to protect himself with
the match was disproportionate the moment zoro took his scythe.. go figure he couldn't defend himself
.. then on the roof we see killer equating the Onigiri with his beheader claws... so makes you wonder if he could equate Onigiri
and sorry that isn't permanent damage but a scar and a scar is not something that cannot be healed .. which zoro used his strongest attack regardless of his condition to leave that scar.. and luffy was using basic Acoc punches in his state after he took Kaido's named move to his face, kaido didn't treat Zoro's attack any different from luffys' Acoc punches that make him stumble over anf bleed and luffy isn't even using gears.
this is not to say Luffy Acoc punches over Ahsura but.. kaido doesn't give a shit to anything he tanks so its not an ideal example.
In a fight mobility, endurance, durability and offense are key. no one can just win with just AP against someone who excels in other categories.
and sorry the preconception of people KO'in opponents with one hit from the get go is not how you determine things like the survival percentage.... especially without determining who they are facing..
its highly likely EOS Luffy and EOS kid would be on the same level and god knows what buffs killer would get..
but lets for argument's sake choose King as a reference.
his survival rate would be 0 not matter who he faces whether zoro or luffy coz he's near fodder compared to what zoro and luffy would be EOS
you can't say him fighting Luffy he'd have a greater chance of survival than zoro coz zoro ONE SHOTS HIM.... that's pretty unnecessary considering he has no chance of surviving either way, luffy can KKG tf out of him as well if he wanted to but that's not how things work... a fight progresses in increments.
if that were the case and people kept one shot'in eachother then MF war would be won by WBP
the match was disproportionate the moment zoro took his scythe.. go figure he couldn't defend himself
.. then on the roof we see killer equating the Onigiri with his beheader claws... so makes you wonder if he could equate Onigiri
and sorry that isn't permanent damage but a scar and a scar is not something that cannot be healed .. which zoro used his strongest attack regardless of his condition to leave that scar.. and luffy was using basic Acoc punches in his state after he took Kaido's named move to his face, kaido didn't treat Zoro's attack any different from luffys' Acoc punches that make him stumble over anf bleed and luffy isn't even using gears.
this is not to say Luffy Acoc punches over Ahsura but.. kaido doesn't give a shit to anything he tanks so its not an ideal example.
In a fight mobility, endurance, durability and offense are key. no one can just win with just AP against someone who excels in other categories.
and sorry the preconception of people KO'in opponents with one hit from the get go is not how you determine things like the survival percentage.... especially without determining who they are facing..
its highly likely EOS Luffy and EOS kid would be on the same level and god knows what buffs killer would get..
but lets for argument's sake choose King as a reference.
his survival rate would be 0 not matter who he faces whether zoro or luffy coz he's near fodder compared to what zoro and luffy would be EOS
you can't say him fighting Luffy he'd have a greater chance of survival than zoro coz zoro ONE SHOTS HIM.... that's pretty unnecessary considering he has no chance of surviving either way, luffy can KKG tf out of him as well if he wanted to but that's not how things work... a fight progresses in increments.
if that were the case and people kept one shot'in eachother then MF war would be won by WBP
Imagine saying Rayleigh is Yonko level.
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Those who say Zoro will be stronger than Luffy, do they agree that Zoro's master, Mihawk is Yonkou level? Because;
1) if Mihawak is Yonkou level, then he needs to defeat a Yonkou to bs the WSS
2) By surpassing him he can be stronger than him
3) If he become stronger than Mihawk, he will become stronger than a Yonkou
4) If Zoro becomes stronger than Yonkou then ultimately, he become stronger than Luffy.
5) If it is the case, then I have no problem in accepting Zoro > Luffy
I feel silly to be arguing about this, it is like a fact for me that Luffy > Zoro.
But I keep on seeing posts like this,
Their fighting styles are different and fans confuse it by discussing who is stronger.
Closest example that I can give is if someone plays PubG: Zoro can be like AWM (lethal, but limited ammo) while Luffy can be like M24/M249, lethal + unlimited ammo.
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Those who say Zoro will be stronger than Luffy, do they agree that Zoro's master, Mihawk is Yonkou level? Because;
1) if Mihawak is Yonkou level, then he needs to defeat a Yonkou to bs the WSS
2) By surpassing him he can be stronger than him
3) If he become stronger than Mihawk, he will become stronger than a Yonkou
4) If Zoro becomes stronger than Yonkou then ultimately, he become stronger than Luffy.
5) If it is the case, then I have no problem in accepting Zoro > Luffy
I feel silly to be arguing about this, it is like a fact for me that Luffy > Zoro.
But I keep on seeing posts like this,
Their fighting styles are different and fans confuse it by discussing who is stronger.
Closest example that I can give is if someone plays PubG: Zoro can be like AWM (lethal, but limited ammo) while Luffy can be like M24/M249, lethal + unlimited ammo.
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I'm wondering if this is the only Western Forum where Zoro and Luffy fans are constantly fighting to determine who is stronger lmao.
More surprising the characters themselves get along pretty well and don't constantly want to prove one is stronger than the other.
We have Shanks vs Mihawk and Admirals vs Yonkou already for that purposeNo need to have a fight between guys from the same Side.
More surprising the characters themselves get along pretty well and don't constantly want to prove one is stronger than the other.
We have Shanks vs Mihawk and Admirals vs Yonkou already for that purposeNo need to have a fight between guys from the same Side.
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You proved nothing wrong when my point the whole time was that these abilities are possessed only by the strongest. That implies that to be ranked among the Strongest, you need Top Tier Haki.
This isn't like Luffy vs the Boa sisters where he was so physically beyond their level, that them having Haki didn't matter. Top Tiers themselves are physical monsters, and they possess Top Tier Haki. So if you get into a fight against a Top Tier, without Top Tier Haki yourself, them your chances of victory are slim to none. You can't just physically overcome them, and render their Haki useless, and you can't defend against that level of Haki without having that level of Haki yourself.
So what's next, Luffy had FS and CoC during Marineford because he manifested if briefly? Unlocking it and being able to consistently use it throughout the course of a fight are two different things. Zoro still needs to train to learn how to use it.
Difference between Oden, Roger and Whitebeard with Zoro is that they are Top Tiers and ranked amongst the Strongest in the World, so the likelihood of them having it can be implied.
Luffy was on the losing end of a fight against Katakuri, who had Future Sight, for 11 hours. Just because Luffy stood his ground for that long by himself doesn't mean he could be considered ranked among the Strongest in the World. So just because Zoro had some great moments in a 2 v 5 battle against Kaido and Big Mom doesn't mean he's already to be ranked amongst the Strongest in the World. Not considering the condition he was in at the end of that fight. He had to unlock CoC at the very end just to do any real damage to Kaido at the very end of the fight. Once he learns to consitstantly use that ability, then we can talk about where he stands.
This isn't like Luffy vs the Boa sisters where he was so physically beyond their level, that them having Haki didn't matter. Top Tiers themselves are physical monsters, and they possess Top Tier Haki. So if you get into a fight against a Top Tier, without Top Tier Haki yourself, them your chances of victory are slim to none. You can't just physically overcome them, and render their Haki useless, and you can't defend against that level of Haki without having that level of Haki yourself.
So what's next, Luffy had FS and CoC during Marineford because he manifested if briefly? Unlocking it and being able to consistently use it throughout the course of a fight are two different things. Zoro still needs to train to learn how to use it.
Difference between Oden, Roger and Whitebeard with Zoro is that they are Top Tiers and ranked amongst the Strongest in the World, so the likelihood of them having it can be implied.
Luffy was on the losing end of a fight against Katakuri, who had Future Sight, for 11 hours. Just because Luffy stood his ground for that long by himself doesn't mean he could be considered ranked among the Strongest in the World. So just because Zoro had some great moments in a 2 v 5 battle against Kaido and Big Mom doesn't mean he's already to be ranked amongst the Strongest in the World. Not considering the condition he was in at the end of that fight. He had to unlock CoC at the very end just to do any real damage to Kaido at the very end of the fight. Once he learns to consitstantly use that ability, then we can talk about where he stands.
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It left a scar but Zolo was only capable of doing that once in his most extreme, life-or-death, seemingly uncontrolled state yet Luffy IN BASE FORM was able to spam that move immedietly after.
The fact that Zolo himself lamented on how little damage it is should tell you enough. You'd expect Zolo in his final, most extreme life-or-death form to AT LEAST bring Kaido to his knees, but no, all was left was a relatively tiny scar that wasn't even on any vital areas.
The fact that Zolo himself lamented on how little damage it is should tell you enough. You'd expect Zolo in his final, most extreme life-or-death form to AT LEAST bring Kaido to his knees, but no, all was left was a relatively tiny scar that wasn't even on any vital areas.
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The only visible injury on Kata is the one he inflicted on himself but you wouldn't say that it was the cause of his defeat nor that it was the most damage he sustained since obviously Luffys attacks did far more damage and were what caused his downfall. If you are looking for a crazy wound to indicate Luffy doing the most damage then you will never find one.
And why do you keep ignoring people asking you to explain what kind of noticeable damage you are looking for from a blunt force attack? Should Luffy be punching holes through Kaido? Panels of Kaidos insides ruptured?
Did the scabbards damage Kaido more than Luffy because their attacks were more noticeable?
What did that scar accomplish in the end? Kaido still stood after the attack and still defeated Luffy despite it.
Did the scabbards damage Kaido more than Luffy because their attacks were more noticeable?
What did that scar accomplish in the end? Kaido still stood after the attack and still defeated Luffy despite it.
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If Kaido is protrusing blood the way Luffy is causing him, that means internal wounds are being inflicted. Wounds of which could very well be permanent but we wouldn't know since it's internal.
What matters is how Kaido reacts, Kaido reacted much more fiercely to Luffy's Kong Gatling because it knocked Kaido out temporarily, something nobody else was able to do. Zolo's attack on the other hand was not even enough to bring Kaido to his knees, Kaido quite literally ate Zolos attack and moved on.
And this is just one downside that swordsman have that brawlers don't. Unless your hitting a vital area, cuts are not going to deal any significant damage because of how precise and thin they are. Blunt attacks on the other hand have more of an impact, even if you don't hit a vital area your still exerting alot of damage. Zolo did not hit any vital area and the scar he left was rather small, so we can conclude it wasn't that significant of an attack.
What matters is how Kaido reacts, Kaido reacted much more fiercely to Luffy's Kong Gatling because it knocked Kaido out temporarily, something nobody else was able to do. Zolo's attack on the other hand was not even enough to bring Kaido to his knees, Kaido quite literally ate Zolos attack and moved on.
And this is just one downside that swordsman have that brawlers don't. Unless your hitting a vital area, cuts are not going to deal any significant damage because of how precise and thin they are. Blunt attacks on the other hand have more of an impact, even if you don't hit a vital area your still exerting alot of damage. Zolo did not hit any vital area and the scar he left was rather small, so we can conclude it wasn't that significant of an attack.