Current Events Why Zoro won't face Kaido again
- Thread starter Monkey D Theories
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I'm much more confident for what it concerns ZKK than Zoro defeating Kaido which remains rather iffy, because Oda has been perpetually constant and coherent with that kind of portrayal so far. Why? Because Kaido never denied what he suggested, that perfection can be found with death. Because Luffy never killed if not inadvertently. Because Yamato never striked like someone capable to off his own father, and Zoro is still fiercefully wishing to avenge the country people.
You didn't answer my questions.
Yours? You're going by what Zoro says about Luffy, but you don't seem to consider his response if or when things change. Would he want to fight Kaido if he found out Luffy's not up there? Or just be like "welp guess we die now." Is he afraid of one emperor? Lightning breath avoided. Prometheus, wind scythes, Boro Breath, and Twister defeated. Indra and Thunder Bagua tanked. The chance for another Hakai is gone. What could deter him?
Yours? You're going by what Zoro says about Luffy, but you don't seem to consider his response if or when things change. Would he want to fight Kaido if he found out Luffy's not up there? Or just be like "welp guess we die now." Is he afraid of one emperor? Lightning breath avoided. Prometheus, wind scythes, Boro Breath, and Twister defeated. Indra and Thunder Bagua tanked. The chance for another Hakai is gone. What could deter him?
Zoro will face Kaido again.
The manga sources has hinted Zoro will kill Kaido several times.
Zoro fighting Kaido is not out of character. Kaido is not someone how can be easily defeated and by that I defeated to the point he won't return. Kaido has be defeated and captured several times so even if Luffy does beat Kaido, he will return. To permanently defeat Kaido and stop him from returning he must be killed. Luffy does not have the power to kill Kaido but Zoro does or at least he is working on it.
Nobody is physically strong enough to go against Kaido except maybe Big Mom. That's why they have other ability/skill/power to use against Kaido.
Let's take a look at Luffy. None of his gears or physically strength could hurt Kaido so he learned barrier and penetration haki. At this time Luffy has power to hurt Kaido but not severely hurt or kill Kaido even with adv CoC attacks.
Zoro, like Luffy, Zoro received training related to CoA haki. Zoro's Wano training focuses on producing more powerful attacks by using more haki and less physical strength. That's what he did when he cut the tree. Thanks to his large and powerful haki he was able to cut a cliff only using the physically strength needed to cut a tree. Zoro fighting King in a weaken and injured state would force Zoro to further improve his CoA haki skills and master enma. The other benefit of fighting King is it could help him improve his CoC if King has it and they clash with it.
I believe to kill Kaido large and powerful haki must be combined with adv CoC attacks. That explains why Oden was able to scar but not kill Kaido in one hit. Oden was not using enough haki. That also explains why Big Mom and Kaido were concerned of Zoro flying dragon blaze attack. It had enough power to scar Kaido but not kill him with one hit.
The manga sources has hinted Zoro will kill Kaido several times.
Zoro fighting Kaido is not out of character. Kaido is not someone how can be easily defeated and by that I defeated to the point he won't return. Kaido has be defeated and captured several times so even if Luffy does beat Kaido, he will return. To permanently defeat Kaido and stop him from returning he must be killed. Luffy does not have the power to kill Kaido but Zoro does or at least he is working on it.
Nobody is physically strong enough to go against Kaido except maybe Big Mom. That's why they have other ability/skill/power to use against Kaido.
Let's take a look at Luffy. None of his gears or physically strength could hurt Kaido so he learned barrier and penetration haki. At this time Luffy has power to hurt Kaido but not severely hurt or kill Kaido even with adv CoC attacks.
Zoro, like Luffy, Zoro received training related to CoA haki. Zoro's Wano training focuses on producing more powerful attacks by using more haki and less physical strength. That's what he did when he cut the tree. Thanks to his large and powerful haki he was able to cut a cliff only using the physically strength needed to cut a tree. Zoro fighting King in a weaken and injured state would force Zoro to further improve his CoA haki skills and master enma. The other benefit of fighting King is it could help him improve his CoC if King has it and they clash with it.
I believe to kill Kaido large and powerful haki must be combined with adv CoC attacks. That explains why Oden was able to scar but not kill Kaido in one hit. Oden was not using enough haki. That also explains why Big Mom and Kaido were concerned of Zoro flying dragon blaze attack. It had enough power to scar Kaido but not kill him with one hit.
Just gonna say this.
While I don't believe in ZKK, I'm not opposed to it happening.
On multiple occasions during the post-TS, I thought Oda would maybe shake things up a bit and let Zoro or Sanji take out the main baddie of the arc while Luffy had to deal with something else (Zoro would hold Fujitora in Dressrosa, while Sanji + Law would take down Doffy. Luffy would stay dealing with the coliseum thing to retrieve the Mera Mera no Mi and we would get our first real clash against the BB Pirates in Luffy vs Burgess).
In WCI, Sanji would take Katakuri while Luffy would have to deal with Big Mom on a rampage.
So it would be really inconsistent for me to say that I wouldn't appreciate if Zoro was the one to take down Kaido here.
Having said that, I don't like big swings. What I mean by this is: I dont like when you take someone out of the fight by breaking dozens of bones on said person's body, have him be completely patched and immobilized, only to later this said person to magically recover with some phoenix asspull.
If it weren't for the "he broke 30 bones", or the "Trafalgar, this is all I got left", etc, I would be much more inclined to believe in Zoro's recovery to go for another fight. But, RIGHT NOW, I have a hard time buying it. But I still keep an open mind due to the fact that, in shounen, these kinds of swings are, unfortunately, common things. So I won't simply trash talk it when it happens, unless I think it is really, REALLY shitty.
While I don't believe in ZKK, I'm not opposed to it happening.
On multiple occasions during the post-TS, I thought Oda would maybe shake things up a bit and let Zoro or Sanji take out the main baddie of the arc while Luffy had to deal with something else (Zoro would hold Fujitora in Dressrosa, while Sanji + Law would take down Doffy. Luffy would stay dealing with the coliseum thing to retrieve the Mera Mera no Mi and we would get our first real clash against the BB Pirates in Luffy vs Burgess).
In WCI, Sanji would take Katakuri while Luffy would have to deal with Big Mom on a rampage.
So it would be really inconsistent for me to say that I wouldn't appreciate if Zoro was the one to take down Kaido here.
Having said that, I don't like big swings. What I mean by this is: I dont like when you take someone out of the fight by breaking dozens of bones on said person's body, have him be completely patched and immobilized, only to later this said person to magically recover with some phoenix asspull.
If it weren't for the "he broke 30 bones", or the "Trafalgar, this is all I got left", etc, I would be much more inclined to believe in Zoro's recovery to go for another fight. But, RIGHT NOW, I have a hard time buying it. But I still keep an open mind due to the fact that, in shounen, these kinds of swings are, unfortunately, common things. So I won't simply trash talk it when it happens, unless I think it is really, REALLY shitty.
He said Luffy will win, not that he won't go back if given the chance or take over if Luffy is down.
Out of curiosity, how do you see this playing out for Zoro? If he's given the chance to fight again, what will he do? If Kaido claims victory, will Zoro just accept it?
Out of curiosity, how do you see this playing out for Zoro? If he's given the chance to fight again, what will he do? If Kaido claims victory, will Zoro just accept it?
After Zoro heals he'd probably be pursued by King.
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Luffy will crush kaido's will, just like he did for every other character he's faced. This makes perfect sense thematically since a big part of kaido's character is that he grows his crew by crushing the wills of the people he defeats.
As for Kaido's death, its going to be something that will be in sharp contrast to Whitebeard's death. I think the perfect death for kaido would be for him to be imprisoned in impel down and then assassinated by the world government(probably by using some weapon vegapunk invented). This way kaido will be denied of the thing he wants the most, a valiant death.
Zoro never fought Crocodile or Doflamingo. He also never fought Lucci... because Luffy didn't need his help. When Zoro said he was heading to the roof, what did Luffy say? What can he say now?
And I wouldn't say "thematically" when it comes to Luffy beating Kaido like that. Historically it's not even true because we see Crocodile, Ener, Lucci not spiritually broken. Doflamingo hardly even seems to give a shit that he lost, he was last seen laughing about how the world will become unhinged. Kaido does love breaking wills but Luffy is gonna break his? The mf wants to die. There's no reason he'll take this defeat any harder than he took the other seven just because.
And I wouldn't say "thematically" when it comes to Luffy beating Kaido like that. Historically it's not even true because we see Crocodile, Ener, Lucci not spiritually broken. Doflamingo hardly even seems to give a shit that he lost, he was last seen laughing about how the world will become unhinged. Kaido does love breaking wills but Luffy is gonna break his? The mf wants to die. There's no reason he'll take this defeat any harder than he took the other seven just because.
You don't get it. Kaido is different than those other villains Luffy fought and the story is very different so it doesn't matter what happened back then.
Luffy won't break Kaido's will. Kaido has been beaten and captured several times so defeat is nothing new to him and doesn't mean anything to him. He was even experimented on and none of that broke his will. There's nothing Luffy can do to him that hasn't already been done before. Luffy can't break his will. Kaido is a conqueror. He goes around and beat other pirates and breaks their will to force them to join his pirate crew if they are strong.
Where are you getting your idea that Kaido will be captured, placed in jail, and then killed in jail. The manga doesn't support that at all. In fact, the marines have tried to execute Kaido several times and failed.
The store tells us the Scabbards want Kaido dead and Kaido is waiting for a strong swordsman to give him an honorable death. The only person who has the potential to achieve that is Zoro.
Marco will heal Zoro some, but not completely since he can't. Zoro, who still haven't fully recovered, will fight and beat king to improve his CoA haki, CoC haki and master enma. He would then use his improve skill, strength, and power to kill Kaido.
Luffy won't break Kaido's will. Kaido has been beaten and captured several times so defeat is nothing new to him and doesn't mean anything to him. He was even experimented on and none of that broke his will. There's nothing Luffy can do to him that hasn't already been done before. Luffy can't break his will. Kaido is a conqueror. He goes around and beat other pirates and breaks their will to force them to join his pirate crew if they are strong.
Where are you getting your idea that Kaido will be captured, placed in jail, and then killed in jail. The manga doesn't support that at all. In fact, the marines have tried to execute Kaido several times and failed.
The store tells us the Scabbards want Kaido dead and Kaido is waiting for a strong swordsman to give him an honorable death. The only person who has the potential to achieve that is Zoro.
Marco will heal Zoro some, but not completely since he can't. Zoro, who still haven't fully recovered, will fight and beat king to improve his CoA haki, CoC haki and master enma. He would then use his improve skill, strength, and power to kill Kaido.
The Doflamingo paradigm is not a good one in my opinion. Zoro had a specific rival in that stage, and that was Pica. That was established to be the best course of action. This time it has not necessarily to be King or Orochi, as they can very well be afforded by other people. He can very well return to the scene if there's logical ground for it.
Yeah, any "second best fighter" scenario that comes to mind involves Zoro stopping to occupy and defeat a key player, leaving Luffy free to fight the main antagonist. Zoro in this case actually acknowledges King and Queen, then skips right past them to face Kaido. You can't look at an already exceptional case and then just say it's gonna go like it always seems to.