Current Events Why do People Expect Sanji to Solo a Calamity?
- Thread starter Cinera
- Start date
- Tags beast pirates calamities live floor sanji wano matchups
Sanji got beaten up at least “a few dozen minutes” ago. That is plenty of time for him to recover, especially since he hasn’t fought anyone strong in the mean time. While on the other hand Queen, as far as we know, has been fighting Marco (and to a much lesser extent, Chopper and everyone else) non-stop.
He’s got a bruise from getting beaten up
It’s not much of an injury we’re talking about here.
No, but he does have a RS that offers serious protection, so I think it evens up in that respect.
Plus from the looks of it backup from at least one other strong fighter.
I find it a lot easier to dismiss damage taken from a Flying Six member “a few dozen minutes ago“ as irrelevant than it is to dismiss whatever damage Queen has been taking against Whitebeard’s right hand man in the meantime.
Unless we’re trying to argue that while that the fight in the live floor actually finished ages ago, Marco has been beaten and King and Queen have just lazed about for no reason. As I have no reason to think that, I will continue to believe that there is an ongoing fight of Marco and co vs King and Queen, where Marco is doing serious damage. Since that’s exactly what we’ve seen happen.
Any damage Chopper’s done I don’t much care about.
He’s got a bruise from getting beaten up
It’s not much of an injury we’re talking about here.
No, but he does have a RS that offers serious protection, so I think it evens up in that respect.
Plus from the looks of it backup from at least one other strong fighter.
I find it a lot easier to dismiss damage taken from a Flying Six member “a few dozen minutes ago“ as irrelevant than it is to dismiss whatever damage Queen has been taking against Whitebeard’s right hand man in the meantime.
Unless we’re trying to argue that while that the fight in the live floor actually finished ages ago, Marco has been beaten and King and Queen have just lazed about for no reason. As I have no reason to think that, I will continue to believe that there is an ongoing fight of Marco and co vs King and Queen, where Marco is doing serious damage. Since that’s exactly what we’ve seen happen.
Any damage Chopper’s done I don’t much care about.
If Sanji was wearing the RS and using Haki to defend himself, i'd have been more inclined to side with your take that relies solely on comparing power levels between Marco and Black Maria.
Queen is still in a 2 vs 1 scenario against Marco, and he didn't feel he got pushed enough yet to even go Hybrid because of these favorable circumstances, with whatever damage he took being neutralized by his Zoan regeneration to a great extent.
Sanji putting on the RS will not work to retroactively take care of the damage he took the way Queen already took advantage of his DF defensive buffs at the time + had the regeneration to handle whatever bypassed those.
"WCI was thematically and narratively more important for Sanji's character than Wano" Which is exactly why he'll fight in Wano lol. Characters dont get fights in their own arcs. Was Enies Lobby A Sanji arc? Was Alabasta a Sanji arc? No They were Strawhat arcs...... Wano is an arc for the Crew..... Again People underestimate the importance of group panels like these. This is Oda literally saying, "the strawhats will get fights this arc"
At first I thought the match up would be Zoro vs King and Sanji vs Queen because that's Oda's usual prerogative. Then there was significant build up to Zoro facing Kaido.
Once Zoro was on the roof, I thought it would be cool to see Sanji vs King. I still believe that Zoro will be back to face Kaido. Since Marco has been fighting King and Queen aren't they both weakened? If Sanji fights King, is he technically soloing him since Marco has dealt damage to King beforehand? I am not good with power levels or scaling. If Sanji fights a weakened King, would he still be the 3rd strongest Strawhat?
Once Zoro was on the roof, I thought it would be cool to see Sanji vs King. I still believe that Zoro will be back to face Kaido. Since Marco has been fighting King and Queen aren't they both weakened? If Sanji fights King, is he technically soloing him since Marco has dealt damage to King beforehand? I am not good with power levels or scaling. If Sanji fights a weakened King, would he still be the 3rd strongest Strawhat?
X Drake asked Zoro to let him handle the situation, aka dealing with Apoo when Brook and the others were making comments that it's going to be tough after Apoo got back up from Zoro's attack.
He straight out chomps Apoo as he's making that claim, and he's been part of clashes with Apoo since more than 20 chapters ago, so i don't think he's going to get a more fitting opponent.
Especially since X Drake's priority is whatever business Sword has, so i think that after Apoo is dealt with, as the other match-ups happens he's going to make moves in that regard. I expect some interaction with CP9 as well before the arc ends for him, for us to see how the dynamic between those two groups plays out.
He straight out chomps Apoo as he's making that claim, and he's been part of clashes with Apoo since more than 20 chapters ago, so i don't think he's going to get a more fitting opponent.
Especially since X Drake's priority is whatever business Sword has, so i think that after Apoo is dealt with, as the other match-ups happens he's going to make moves in that regard. I expect some interaction with CP9 as well before the arc ends for him, for us to see how the dynamic between those two groups plays out.
Solo =\= face
This is flawed. Looked Stronger? If you ignore context, sure
Testing RS is completely irrelevant because testing or not won't change his invisibility, it won't change his durability nor his floatation devices. These things are automatic.
This I agree with. However, it stacking up for him to solo Queen is still unfounded . Not to mention he will be scaled according to his siblings specifically Ichiji and Niji who base Sanji didn't show superiority to.
These are all just assumptions
Like I mentioned above, this pathway is still tied to his siblings.
>Judge in the RS was completely dominating Sanji.
> You'd have to claim that RS Sanji would not only close that gap but also supercede it to the point of low-mid diffing Judge.
> Base Sanji didn't show superiority to Ichiji nor Niji.
> You'd have to claim that Base Sanji would be able to low diff base Ichiji...same diff translates to when they put on the RS.
Do you think the above required assumptions have been implied by Oda in anyway?
>Now the most important point: RS Sanji getting knocked out by King in a single attack.
This is flawed. Looked Stronger? If you ignore context, sure
Testing RS is completely irrelevant because testing or not won't change his invisibility, it won't change his durability nor his floatation devices. These things are automatic.
This I agree with. However, it stacking up for him to solo Queen is still unfounded . Not to mention he will be scaled according to his siblings specifically Ichiji and Niji who base Sanji didn't show superiority to.
These are all just assumptions
Like I mentioned above, this pathway is still tied to his siblings.
>Judge in the RS was completely dominating Sanji.
> You'd have to claim that RS Sanji would not only close that gap but also supercede it to the point of low-mid diffing Judge.
> Base Sanji didn't show superiority to Ichiji nor Niji.
> You'd have to claim that Base Sanji would be able to low diff base Ichiji...same diff translates to when they put on the RS.
Do you think the above required assumptions have been implied by Oda in anyway?
>Now the most important point: RS Sanji getting knocked out by King in a single attack.
Let alone two?
Are the Sanji vs King and Queen people serious? Is this some elaborate shitpost I'm missing out on? Is this coping because Sanji hasn't defeated a significant combatant solo in the New World?
I'm pretty flabbergasted. Luffy defeating Linlin in WCI seemed to have more going for it than Sanji taking down both Calamities.
Disclaimer
I don't actually hate Sanji and I'm annoyed at Sanji bashing. This is me being (perhaps brutally) honest.
As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.
Introduction
Leaving aside Sanji taking down both Calamities, I'm not confident that Sanji will defeat any Calamity solo. I have been expecting Sanji to do this for a while, but I think it's time I reevaluate. There are three broad reasons I'm losing confidence in Sanji soloing a calamity:
Increased Scepticism of the Meta Narrative
Powerscaling Might Actually Matter?
Viability of a Solo Matchup
Conclusions
At this point, I do not foresee the story following developments that would permit Sanji to defeat Queen solo.
Summary
To summarise what I've said above:
Are the Sanji vs King and Queen people serious? Is this some elaborate shitpost I'm missing out on? Is this coping because Sanji hasn't defeated a significant combatant solo in the New World?
I'm pretty flabbergasted. Luffy defeating Linlin in WCI seemed to have more going for it than Sanji taking down both Calamities.
Disclaimer
I don't actually hate Sanji and I'm annoyed at Sanji bashing. This is me being (perhaps brutally) honest.
As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.
Introduction
Leaving aside Sanji taking down both Calamities, I'm not confident that Sanji will defeat any Calamity solo. I have been expecting Sanji to do this for a while, but I think it's time I reevaluate. There are three broad reasons I'm losing confidence in Sanji soloing a calamity:
- Increased scepticism of the meta-narrative
- Powerscaling might actually matter?
- Viability of a solo matchup given the events of the Live Floor
Increased Scepticism of the Meta Narrative
There's the traditional argument that Sanji will solo a Calamity (presumably Queen) because Queen feels the template of Sanji's traditional opponent:
I agree that Queen is Sanji's presumptive opponent. However, recent events have undermined my confidence in Sanji defeating Queen solo.
Particularly:
Meta/pattern-based arguments are looking less credible to me seeing as Oda appears to have consistently defied such patterns.
Nami vs Ulti in particular is very stark:
Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent than Sanji does with either of the Calamities:
If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.
The same argument that predicts Sanji soloing Queen also predicted:
- He's a bit goofy.
- Both love women (particularly Komurasaki)
- He has a rivalry with Zoro's presumptive opponent (King).
- He knows Sanji's father and addressed Sanji as "Judge's Son".
- He mentioned the need to take down the Strawhats' strongest combatants.
- He's the one that sent the Tobi Roppo after Sanji.
I agree that Queen is Sanji's presumptive opponent. However, recent events have undermined my confidence in Sanji defeating Queen solo.
Particularly:
- Oda had Linlin defeat Usopp's presumptive opponent (Pay Pay).
- Oda had Linlin defeat Nami's presumptive opponent (Ulti).
- Oda had Carrot lose to her presumptive opponent (Perospero) and seems to have entirely discarded the opportunity for her to get vindicated in a rematch, instead of setting up someone else (Nekomamushi) to defeat them.
Meta/pattern-based arguments are looking less credible to me seeing as Oda appears to have consistently defied such patterns.
Nami vs Ulti in particular is very stark:
Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent than Sanji does with either of the Calamities:
- Ulti defeated her already.
- While Ulti was threatening her she declared that Luffy will not stop until he becomes Pirate King.
- Ulti spent a while chasing her.
- She struck down Ulti with her lightning (twice).
- Ulti hurt Tama
- She vowed that she will defeat Ulti.
- She resolved herself to stop running and challenged Ulti head on.
If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.
The same argument that predicts Sanji soloing Queen also predicted:
- Usopp soloing Page One
- Nami soloing Ulti
- Carrot defeating Perospero
- Zoro never fighting Kaido
- Zoro soloing King
- In fairness, this might still happen.
Powerscaling Might Actually Matter?
Here I take my L. I've long been an advocate that narrative trumps powerscaling, and characters will become as strong as Oda needs them to be for the narrative. Well, I took a big fat L here:
By his current showings, Sanji is not strong enough to defeat Queen even when wearing the Raid Suit.
Sanji's best showings with the Raid Suit is failing to even damage a Tobi Roppo:
And being able to withstand an attack from one:
Sanji has nothing suggesting he's actually strong enough to defeat Queen. Before I didn't think that matters because I thought the narrative trumps powerscaling, but now I think powerscaling matters.
As far as powerscaling goes, Sanji has an absolutely horrendous track record in the New World:
Sanji's last solo victory against a significant opponent of note was pretimeskip. His combat ability presentation today has not been good. If powerscaling actually matters — if the narrative does not trump it — then I have no reason to believe that Sanji is strong enough to defeat Queen.
- Carrot was not strong enough to defeat Perospero and so she lost.
- Someone that's actually strong enough (Nekomamushi) is facing Perospero instead.
- Usopp was not strong enough to defeat Pay Pay and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) him.
- Nami was not strong enough to defeat Ulti and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) her.
By his current showings, Sanji is not strong enough to defeat Queen even when wearing the Raid Suit.
Sanji's best showings with the Raid Suit is failing to even damage a Tobi Roppo:
And being able to withstand an attack from one:
Sanji has nothing suggesting he's actually strong enough to defeat Queen. Before I didn't think that matters because I thought the narrative trumps powerscaling, but now I think powerscaling matters.
As far as powerscaling goes, Sanji has an absolutely horrendous track record in the New World:
- He teamed up with Jimbe to take down Wadatsumi
- He was treated by fodder like Law at Punk Hazard
- He was on the back foot against a Vergo that was massively holding back
- He wasn't using his Bamboo (his main weapon)
- He wasn't using hardening
- He didn't appear to be using Rokushiki techniques (bar possibly Tekkai)
- He was fodderised by Doflamingo
- He defeats Sheepshead together with Brook
- Even then, Sheepshead is a fodder headliner
- He failed to defeat Judge
- Or even be depicted as stronger than him
- He was never demonstrated to be above all his siblings
- At the end of WCI, Niji still had to save him and mocked him for being way too slow.
- He did not defeat any of the Charlotte siblings in WCI
- He failed to defeat Page One even with his Raid Suit power-up
- Page One has been portrayed as the weakest of the Tobi Roppo
Sanji's last solo victory against a significant opponent of note was pretimeskip. His combat ability presentation today has not been good. If powerscaling actually matters — if the narrative does not trump it — then I have no reason to believe that Sanji is strong enough to defeat Queen.
Viability of a Solo Matchup
Leaving aside the narrative and powerscaling counterarguments, I'm not sure the story actually allows Sanji to have a solo battle against any of the Calamities.
On the Alliance's side, we'll have:
On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:
I'll try and present the best-case scenario for Sanji:
This still leaves at least Sanji and Kawamatsu to take on Queen.
And honestly speaking, I don't expect this to be how it shakes out. For entirely separate reasons, I doubt Zoro — even a brutally injured Zoro — would tag-team a swordsman with another one. FIghting despite injuries that would cripple anyone else is his entire shtick.
Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Exhibit C:
There may be others, but this isn't supposed to be a Zoro thread, so I'll stop here for now.
I also don't think Drake will fight Apoo. Queen backstabbing and discarding Apoo was really highlighted, and I got the impression that Apoo was reconsidering his entire allegiance to the Beast Pirates:
So I'm actually expecting Sanji to face Queen alongside some combination of (Drake, Kawamatsu and Izo).
Perhaps I'm wrong on Zoro and he'll face King with backup from Izo, and I'm wrong on Apoo and he'll face Drake, but that still leaves Kawamatsu unaccounted for. Ultimately, I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that permits Sanji to defeat Queen solo.
I expect Sanji to land the last hit, and maybe his support would be defeated along the way and the match would end in a 1 vs 1. I can see a Doflamingo vs Luffy and Law situation being plausible. That still isn't a solo match though.
On the Alliance's side, we'll have:
- Zoro
- Marco
- Sanji
- Nekomamushi
- Drake
- Hyougoro
- Kawamatsu
- Izo
- Chopper
- The Yakuza Bosses
On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:
- King
- Queen
- Perospero
- Apoo
- He might defect or even go solo
I'll try and present the best-case scenario for Sanji:
- Hyougoro and the Yakuza bosses deal with fodder or recover.
- They don't fight anyone of note.
- Nekomamushi fights Perospero
- Chopper treats Zoro
- Drake fights Apoo
- Marco (or Zoro + Izo) deal with King
This still leaves at least Sanji and Kawamatsu to take on Queen.
And honestly speaking, I don't expect this to be how it shakes out. For entirely separate reasons, I doubt Zoro — even a brutally injured Zoro — would tag-team a swordsman with another one. FIghting despite injuries that would cripple anyone else is his entire shtick.
Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Exhibit C:
There may be others, but this isn't supposed to be a Zoro thread, so I'll stop here for now.
I also don't think Drake will fight Apoo. Queen backstabbing and discarding Apoo was really highlighted, and I got the impression that Apoo was reconsidering his entire allegiance to the Beast Pirates:
So I'm actually expecting Sanji to face Queen alongside some combination of (Drake, Kawamatsu and Izo).
Perhaps I'm wrong on Zoro and he'll face King with backup from Izo, and I'm wrong on Apoo and he'll face Drake, but that still leaves Kawamatsu unaccounted for. Ultimately, I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that permits Sanji to defeat Queen solo.
I expect Sanji to land the last hit, and maybe his support would be defeated along the way and the match would end in a 1 vs 1. I can see a Doflamingo vs Luffy and Law situation being plausible. That still isn't a solo match though.
Conclusions
At this point, I do not foresee the story following developments that would permit Sanji to defeat Queen solo.
Summary
To summarise what I've said above:
- The sort of narrative arguments that predict Sanji soloing a Calamity have a terrible track record
- Oda seems to actually give a damn about powerscaling
- Sanji's powerscaling portrayal does not suggest that he can handle a Calamity
- I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that would permit Sanji a solo battle vs a Calamity.
And this debt can only be paid in Calamity's blood.
King's blood, to be more specific.
And we want our payment. It's long overdue.
Ok, I will say this..... I think Sanji will get a brief hype moment of fighting both like Marco did,
Because this sequence with Marco here reminded me a lot Sanji tbh. And I think Sanji has the facilities to pull this off, especially with the Raid Suit. Infact this gives me inspiration for a thread
But yea Ultimately Oda will match Sanji up with Queen.
Because this sequence with Marco here reminded me a lot Sanji tbh. And I think Sanji has the facilities to pull this off, especially with the Raid Suit. Infact this gives me inspiration for a thread
But yea Ultimately Oda will match Sanji up with Queen.
"WCI was thematically and narratively more important for Sanji's character than Wano" Which is exactly why he'll fight in Wano lol. Characters dont get fights in their own arcs. Was Enies Lobby A Sanji arc? Was Alabasta a Sanji arc? No They were Strawhat arcs...... Wano is an arc for the Crew..... Again People underestimate the importance of group panels like these. This is Oda literally saying, "the strawhats will get fights this arc"
It's 2021 and ***** still headcanonically think that Sanji will probably take on King or even both. 
Sanji has been spamming his most powerful attack on mid-tier fighters like Oven and Daifuku, but not doing a lot of dmg.
Calamities will prolly just eat all his fire legs imo.
Ok, I will say this..... I think Sanji will get a brief hype moment of fighting both like Marco did,
Because this sequence with Marco here reminded me a lot Sanji tbh. And I think Sanji has the facilities to pull this off, especially with the Raid Suit. Infact this gives me inspiration for a thread
But yea Ultimately Oda will match Sanji up with Queen.
Because this sequence with Marco here reminded me a lot Sanji tbh. And I think Sanji has the facilities to pull this off, especially with the Raid Suit. Infact this gives me inspiration for a thread
But yea Ultimately Oda will match Sanji up with Queen.
Sanji vs King. If Oda wanted him to fight Queen....he'd have set it up with the numerous amount of chances he had.
- Would it have been so hard for Oda to make Queen interested in Momo and Kinemon....to show opposing interests to Sanji
- Or have Queen stop Sanji from saving Momo instead of King
- Or have Sanji interested in the Oni instead of the flying gifters
- Or have Queen call Maria whilst she had Sanji captive
Why does Oda do all of this when he wants Sanji to fight Queen ? Why does Toei give King Diable Jambe, a Red suit and kicking techniques....Coicidence ? Yes from the people who know way more about the Wano end then us....the viewers.
Ffs why make King's DF flight orientated when he's gonna be fighting Zoro. Why give Sanji a flame proof suit and extra flight powers...
Ignore all the signs for stupid fanmade matchup notions that are gonna get shat on anyways .
Sanji has taken damage from BM and its superficial damage Queen took. We seen him after Marco attacks. He looked like he didn't even fight anybody. None of them has taken significant damage to call it a nerf.
Why you overblowing Queen injuries. He looked fine the last time we seen him and he not fighting Marco by himself. Marco been getting jumped. Sanji got whaled on by Black maria and Sanji not a Zoan he not healing that quick. Lets see how queen looks the next time we see him. I doubt he has sustained anything significant to call it a nerf.
Post automatically merged:
Sanji got beaten up at least “a few dozen minutes” ago. That is plenty of time for him to recover, especially since he hasn’t fought anyone strong in the mean time. While on the other hand Queen, as far as we know, has been fighting Marco (and to a much lesser extent, Chopper and everyone else) non-stop.
He’s got a bruise from getting beaten up
It’s not much of an injury we’re talking about here.
No, but he does have a RS that offers serious protection, so I think it evens up in that respect.
Plus from the looks of it backup from at least one other strong fighter.
I find it a lot easier to dismiss damage taken from a Flying Six member “a few dozen minutes ago“ as irrelevant than it is to dismiss whatever damage Queen has been taking against Whitebeard’s right hand man in the meantime.
Unless we’re trying to argue that while that the fight in the live floor actually finished ages ago, Marco has been beaten and King and Queen have just lazed about for no reason. As I have no reason to think that, I will continue to believe that there is an ongoing fight of Marco and co vs King and Queen, where Marco is doing serious damage. Since that’s exactly what we’ve seen happen.
Any damage Chopper’s done I don’t much care about.
He’s got a bruise from getting beaten up
It’s not much of an injury we’re talking about here.
No, but he does have a RS that offers serious protection, so I think it evens up in that respect.
Plus from the looks of it backup from at least one other strong fighter.
I find it a lot easier to dismiss damage taken from a Flying Six member “a few dozen minutes ago“ as irrelevant than it is to dismiss whatever damage Queen has been taking against Whitebeard’s right hand man in the meantime.
Unless we’re trying to argue that while that the fight in the live floor actually finished ages ago, Marco has been beaten and King and Queen have just lazed about for no reason. As I have no reason to think that, I will continue to believe that there is an ongoing fight of Marco and co vs King and Queen, where Marco is doing serious damage. Since that’s exactly what we’ve seen happen.
Any damage Chopper’s done I don’t much care about.