Submitting isn't about being accepted, though. People laugh at the idea of Kaido simply leaving, but this is actually a congruent outcome considering other characters with a similar profile in popular Japanese culture.
The problem is that I don't trust Oda at all on this. It's like the Charlottes having a tendency to beheading yet Pound remains alive and well, or Kyros wanting to avenge Scarlett but leaving Diamante alive, and so on. Sure, beheading Kaido has been a recurrent idea, but Oda actually drawing it is up to be seen knowing how the guy thinks and writes.
The problem is that I don't trust Oda at all on this. It's like the Charlottes having a tendency to beheading yet Pound remains alive and well, or Kyros wanting to avenge Scarlett but leaving Diamante alive, and so on. Sure, beheading Kaido has been a recurrent idea, but Oda actually drawing it is up to be seen knowing how the guy thinks and writes.
Meh, 200+ chapters setting up Kaido to die vs a random speculation that he submits to Luffy and simply leaves.
This is the kind of counterargument that you make when you really don't want something to happen.
This is essentially the issue. There are 7+ groups of characters the Narrator and 200+ chapters of Oda setting up Kaido's death.
If you want to argue that Kaido might not die, then you must argue against the weight of that narrative. You can't just throw random speculation as alternatives to death, not when death has such immense weight behind it. You need to actually take it on.
Anything else is just high self delusion.
This is the kind of counterargument that you make when you really don't want something to happen.
This is essentially the issue. There are 7+ groups of characters the Narrator and 200+ chapters of Oda setting up Kaido's death.
If you want to argue that Kaido might not die, then you must argue against the weight of that narrative. You can't just throw random speculation as alternatives to death, not when death has such immense weight behind it. You need to actually take it on.
Anything else is just high self delusion.
We both know "a dragon" isn't "a person", and current Oda isn't young Oda either in terms of death and violence (by his own words). Ryuma's dragon or Punk Hazard's were beasts, but Kaido is a "human" being who some readers want beheaded explicitly on panel (and by a good guy, on top of that, who won't even say killing words because that's too harsh).
It's not about wanting or not something to happen but doubting Oda, first and foremost, plus understanding that the kind of archetype Kaido seems to follow doesn't necessarily end up with the character's death (especially, again, in the context of this story).
Of course Kaido could die, and if he dies then I'll be okay with it (anything that can take us out of Wano as soon as possible), but thinking it's the only possibility is the actual delusion here, and my first answer to you was simply pointing that submitting to Luffy not only wouldn't be "character assassination at the highest level" but would actually fit how other characters with a very similar profile to his have resolved their arc.
I'm just trying to be honest here. Everybody can read what you guys are reading, but focusing on it alone makes no sense. Not everything that makes sense or is constantly referred as a possibility ends up happening in this series.
It's not about wanting or not something to happen but doubting Oda, first and foremost, plus understanding that the kind of archetype Kaido seems to follow doesn't necessarily end up with the character's death (especially, again, in the context of this story).
Of course Kaido could die, and if he dies then I'll be okay with it (anything that can take us out of Wano as soon as possible), but thinking it's the only possibility is the actual delusion here, and my first answer to you was simply pointing that submitting to Luffy not only wouldn't be "character assassination at the highest level" but would actually fit how other characters with a very similar profile to his have resolved their arc.
I'm just trying to be honest here. Everybody can read what you guys are reading, but focusing on it alone makes no sense. Not everything that makes sense or is constantly referred as a possibility ends up happening in this series.
Because he has eight lives, so obviously it doesn't matter because he isn't dying by those beheadings. I wonder if the last head will be taken out too or he will be defeated by a common slash on the chest that won't kill him...?
Seriously man, this is all about context. Irrational animals and disposable beast heads aren't people. You can't equate them to Zoro, who won't even speak ugly words because Oda finds it too harsh for a good guy, explicitly beheading and killing for good a person.
Seriously man, this is all about context. Irrational animals and disposable beast heads aren't people. You can't equate them to Zoro, who won't even speak ugly words because Oda finds it too harsh for a good guy, explicitly beheading and killing for good a person.
If the archetype you're applying to Kaido does not include death as a core theme, then you're applying the wrong archetype.
I don't think it's the only possibility, I'm simply pointing out how bad the counterarguments are.
Again, those other characters did not have death as the core theme of their character. You can't just ignore Kaido's central theme if you want to make an argument by analogy. You'd need to actually present characters just as intertwined with death that took the path you suggested.
Give me 3 examples. Kaido's death has more setup towards it than:
Present three examples of events with as much buildup towards them that failed to happen.
I don't think it's the only possibility, I'm simply pointing out how bad the counterarguments are.
Again, those other characters did not have death as the core theme of their character. You can't just ignore Kaido's central theme if you want to make an argument by analogy. You'd need to actually present characters just as intertwined with death that took the path you suggested.
Give me 3 examples. Kaido's death has more setup towards it than:
- The abolition of the Shichibukai
- Jimbe joining the Strawhats
Present three examples of events with as much buildup towards them that failed to happen.
It does include it in relation to reflection on the character's own existential emptiness. Mewtwo, as basic this example can be, builds his character around why life is precious and what makes it better than death. Although it's not like Kaido needs to fit 100% of the traits, simply because characters aren't copycats of each other and archetypes mainly serve nowadays as references for building them.
Unless Kaido's wish for death is simply the consequence of his existential reflections on the world and himself, which were referred right during his introduction as he was tired of the bored world and has been brought up again in terms of his disappointment as he won't find someone exciting to battle. I don't see death as the core theme of his character but existence, hence why he isn't even human to begin with; death is one of his traits seemingly related to the others since he isn't just about dying in a glorious way but, essentially, existential tiredness that leads to wanting to end the world and himself.
I don't need three examples, with one would be enough. I don't know, Big Mom never fainting from the cake nor being taken out of the arc as a threat? Jinbe insisting on his intention of dying at Marineford? So many people wanting to kill Doflamingo throughout the arc but never happening? The characters needing Moria to order the shadows to go back to their body? Small details like Zoro never gathering the samurai? Ace dying after two arcs for a rescue mission and seemingly being indeed saved? I would have to check the story for more examples because I imagine those cases of failed expectations won't serve you.
Unless Kaido's wish for death is simply the consequence of his existential reflections on the world and himself, which were referred right during his introduction as he was tired of the bored world and has been brought up again in terms of his disappointment as he won't find someone exciting to battle. I don't see death as the core theme of his character but existence, hence why he isn't even human to begin with; death is one of his traits seemingly related to the others since he isn't just about dying in a glorious way but, essentially, existential tiredness that leads to wanting to end the world and himself.
I don't need three examples, with one would be enough. I don't know, Big Mom never fainting from the cake nor being taken out of the arc as a threat? Jinbe insisting on his intention of dying at Marineford? So many people wanting to kill Doflamingo throughout the arc but never happening? The characters needing Moria to order the shadows to go back to their body? Small details like Zoro never gathering the samurai? Ace dying after two arcs for a rescue mission and seemingly being indeed saved? I would have to check the story for more examples because I imagine those cases of failed expectations won't serve you.
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............though marines/kizaru killing is what I think will happen........
"The weak don't get to choose the way they die."
Tbis is a concept Oda has been building up throughout the course of the New World, and especially within this VS. Yonko Saga.
Kaido is a character who is seemingly built up as the Strongest in the verse, and it just so happens that he has been trying to be the maker of his own destiny in regards to death for decades, yet no matter how much he tries, it constantly ends in failure.
The overarching theme here is being made abundantly clear, that no matter how much Kaido is touted to be the strongest, he will be forever doomed to not be able to go out on his own terms because despite what we see on the surface of his character, deep down he is in fact weak.
All these things you think is foreshadowing his death, is in fact foreshadowing the opposite. A battle the likes of which is taking place on Onigashima, is a battle that Kaido would have no problems losing his life in. It would be a Grand death that would cement his name into history. But from a narrative standpoint, Kaido will never be allowed to choose how he goes out, made apparent by the fact that no matter how many times he has tried over and over again to go out on his own terms, he fails.
Tbis is a concept Oda has been building up throughout the course of the New World, and especially within this VS. Yonko Saga.
Kaido is a character who is seemingly built up as the Strongest in the verse, and it just so happens that he has been trying to be the maker of his own destiny in regards to death for decades, yet no matter how much he tries, it constantly ends in failure.
The overarching theme here is being made abundantly clear, that no matter how much Kaido is touted to be the strongest, he will be forever doomed to not be able to go out on his own terms because despite what we see on the surface of his character, deep down he is in fact weak.
All these things you think is foreshadowing his death, is in fact foreshadowing the opposite. A battle the likes of which is taking place on Onigashima, is a battle that Kaido would have no problems losing his life in. It would be a Grand death that would cement his name into history. But from a narrative standpoint, Kaido will never be allowed to choose how he goes out, made apparent by the fact that no matter how many times he has tried over and over again to go out on his own terms, he fails.
