Speculations Why "Wings" does not mean Zoro = Sanji in strength

#1
After that stupid livestream thread involving the head writer for the...*sigh*....live action one piece series, I feel the need to properly examine the whole "wings" narrative and why it doesn't refer to Zoro and Sanji being equal in strength.

All the way back in Volume 73 SBS, Oda used the same Japanese kanji to refer to Zoro and Sanji as Luffy's "wings" as Robin did in chapter 1020. You can see this explanation here:


Most English versions of this SBS do not directly include the word "wings" in their description, but rather they say that Zoro and Sanji are "both valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back." The context of the SBS question matters a lot in this case. The reader presented a compilation of every time Zoro and Sanji referred to each other, noting that Zoro has never called Sanji by his name and lamenting the fact that the two of them don't get along. In response, Oda is basically trying to encourage the reader to focus on what they have in common rather than their differences. Here is the full sentence:

"While they may not get along well, they are both valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back, so let's forgive them for their squabbling."

Think about this: why would Oda respond to a question complaining about Zoro and Sanji's personal relationship by power-scaling? "Yeah, they may argue a lot, but they're equally strong!" versus "Yeah, they may argue a lot, but they are both just as fundamental to making Luffy the Pirate King!" Which sounds like a more logical response given the context of the question?

Furthermore, let's examine the context of Robin's specific statement in the current situation instead of Oda's words from long ago. Why did Oda choose to insert this line here?
  • Sanji just experienced one of the lowest moments of the series.
    • He was humiliated by Black Maria, forcing him to swallow his pride and call for Robin's help while all of Onigashima heard it. That is just brutal for Oda to do to him. And keep in mind that all of this is happening right during/after the rooftop fight where Luffy and Zoro are getting to fight fricking Kaido and Big Mom. In my opinion, this is Oda's way of saying, "no matter how bad Sanji may look at times, he is still one of Luffy's two most trusted men. He is still part of the monster trio."
  • Jinbe just joined the crew
    • After Jinbe joined the crew, many people speculated that Sanji's spot in the M3 would be in danger. In fact, some people thought that he would even overtake Zoro as the #2 and RHM. Again, this is Oda's way of saying, "no matter who joins the crew, Zoro and Sanji will be Luffy's top 2 men." Luffy, Zoro, Sanji. That will never change.
  • Sanji had several consecutive arcs where Oda seemed to purposely make him look "uncool."
    • Even aside from the Black Maria thing, Oda seemed to have no problem with not giving Sanji much shine. He was absent for the majority of Dressrosa and the entirety of Zou. In WCI, even though it was an arc centered around him, it was more meant to show the depth of his character and the beauty of his kindness/personality. He didn't really have many moments that the fanbase would consider "hype."

So why is it Zoro & Sanji and not anyone else if Oda wasn't talking about strength?

Well, strength definitely does play a role, but it is not the main/only deciding factor. Zoro & Sanji being "valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back" is dependent on them being able to support him in any situation. Someone like Nami, although she is a trusted advisor for Luffy, cannot support him in battle nor can she lead the rest of the crew in battle if Luffy is absent. This is evidenced by Luffy saying in Sabaody that he, Zoro and Sanji needed to split up and lead different groups if they wanted to get out alive.

Both Zoro and Sanji have been shown to be far above the rest of the crew in combat ability that Luffy would trust only them specifically to handle the lives of the rest of the crew. However, they have also been shown to be capable leaders in his absence. While Zoro is obviously the first choice and his status as the "unofficial" vice-captain in the crew shouldn't really be questioned, I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Sanji is always the next choice and he tends to serve as the protector of the weak members of the crew. This is evidenced by how he took charge of the rest of the crew during Dressrosa/Zou when Luffy & Zoro were absent. While Luffy & Zoro tend to recklessly bulldoze into battle to find the strong enemies, Sanji tends to stay back and protect. This is essentially exactly what happened at the beginning of the raid.

I have a lot more to potentially add on, but this is basically my two cents on the matter. Thoughts?
 
#3
Zorofans trying so hard :kobeha:

This is like the 100th thread already about the whole "Wing" thing, you guys so insecure?
Read the fucking thread, my dude. It's not that hard. I don't understand how you can say "zorofans are trying so hard" when some dude literally tried to make a thread about Sanji CoC being confirmed as well as the wings shit based on the LIVE ACTION writer's comments on a YT livestream
 
#7
After that stupid livestream thread involving the head writer for the...*sigh*....live action one piece series, I feel the need to properly examine the whole "wings" narrative and why it doesn't refer to Zoro and Sanji being equal in strength.

All the way back in Volume 73 SBS, Oda used the same Japanese kanji to refer to Zoro and Sanji as Luffy's "wings" as Robin did in chapter 1020. You can see this explanation here:


Most English versions of this SBS do not directly include the word "wings" in their description, but rather they say that Zoro and Sanji are "both valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back." The context of the SBS question matters a lot in this case. The reader presented a compilation of every time Zoro and Sanji referred to each other, noting that Zoro has never called Sanji by his name and lamenting the fact that the two of them don't get along. In response, Oda is basically trying to encourage the reader to focus on what they have in common rather than their differences. Here is the full sentence:

"While they may not get along well, they are both valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back, so let's forgive them for their squabbling."

Think about this: why would Oda respond to a question complaining about Zoro and Sanji's personal relationship by power-scaling? "Yeah, they may argue a lot, but they're equally strong!" versus "Yeah, they may argue a lot, but they are both just as fundamental to making Luffy the Pirate King!" Which sounds like a more logical response given the context of the question?

Furthermore, let's examine the context of Robin's specific statement in the current situation instead of Oda's words from long ago. Why did Oda choose to insert this line here?
  • Sanji just experienced one of the lowest moments of the series.
    • He was humiliated by Black Maria, forcing him to swallow his pride and call for Robin's help while all of Onigashima heard it. That is just brutal for Oda to do to him. And keep in mind that all of this is happening right during/after the rooftop fight where Luffy and Zoro are getting to fight fricking Kaido and Big Mom. In my opinion, this is Oda's way of saying, "no matter how bad Sanji may look at times, he is still one of Luffy's two most trusted men. He is still part of the monster trio."
  • Jinbe just joined the crew
    • After Jinbe joined the crew, many people speculated that Sanji's spot in the M3 would be in danger. In fact, some people thought that he would even overtake Zoro as the #2 and RHM. Again, this is Oda's way of saying, "no matter who joins the crew, Zoro and Sanji will be Luffy's top 2 men." Luffy, Zoro, Sanji. That will never change.
  • Sanji had several consecutive arcs where Oda seemed to purposely make him look "uncool."
    • Even aside from the Black Maria thing, Oda seemed to have no problem with not giving Sanji much shine. He was absent for the majority of Dressrosa and the entirety of Zou. In WCI, even though it was an arc centered around him, it was more meant to show the depth of his character and the beauty of his kindness/personality. He didn't really have many moments that the fanbase would consider "hype."

So why is it Zoro & Sanji and not anyone else if Oda wasn't talking about strength?

Well, strength definitely does play a role, but it is not the main/only deciding factor. Zoro & Sanji being "valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back" is dependent on them being able to support him in any situation. Someone like Nami, although she is a trusted advisor for Luffy, cannot support him in battle nor can she lead the rest of the crew in battle if Luffy is absent. This is evidenced by Luffy saying in Sabaody that he, Zoro and Sanji needed to split up and lead different groups if they wanted to get out alive.

Both Zoro and Sanji have been shown to be far above the rest of the crew in combat ability that Luffy would trust only them specifically to handle the lives of the rest of the crew. However, they have also been shown to be capable leaders in his absence. While Zoro is obviously the first choice and his status as the "unofficial" vice-captain in the crew shouldn't really be questioned, I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Sanji is always the next choice and he tends to serve as the protector of the weak members of the crew. This is evidenced by how he took charge of the rest of the crew during Dressrosa/Zou when Luffy & Zoro were absent. While Luffy & Zoro tend to recklessly bulldoze into battle to find the strong enemies, Sanji tends to stay back and protect. This is essentially exactly what happened at the beginning of the raid.

I have a lot more to potentially add on, but this is basically my two cents on the matter. Thoughts?
So you literally didnt answer anything.
 
#10
Zoro fanboys still coping about the wings statement :suresure:
Bro because it's one of the only things people bring up when trying to prove Zoro = Sanji nowadays and it just gets spam used to all hell

Meanwhile, I can't post a legitimately serious thread with coherent organization and thoughts without getting hit with "cope" and "copium"

I don't recall ever even saying anything even mildly bad about Sanji, and I thoroughly don't associate myself with people who spam "Lanji" "Zoro >>>>>>>>>> Sanji" and various other forms of back-and-forth garbage comments/posts just meant to piss people off
 
#12
I agree. Sanji is, at best, high diff material for Zoro. Imo, that's a compliment. Zoro is a monster who trains all the time. His job and dream are related to fighting. He's a specialist.

Sanji's dream and job are not related to fighting. He doesn't use his arms or weapons in battle, he's top tier in his profession and he's still high mid-high diff material for Zoro!
 
#13
Zorofans trying so hard :kobeha:

This is like the 100th thread already about the whole "Wing" thing, you guys so insecure?
It's the other way around lol. Most Sanji fans are so insecure that they need an metaphor and a big amount of headcanon to feel safe.
You can't be so stupid to think that Robins usage of that metaphor was purely about power scaling. Cmon, I know you're arrogant and shit but don't make a fool out of you.
 
#17
I agree. Sanji is, at best, high diff material for Zoro. Imo, that's a compliment. Zoro is a monster who trains all the time. His job and dream are related to fighting. He's a specialist.

Sanji's dream and job are not related to fighting. He doesn't use his arms or weapons in battle, he's top tier in his profession and he's still high mid-high diff material for Zoro!
Exactly! It's literally fucking INSANE that Sanji is as strong as he is while being a cook who only uses his goddamn feet lmfao. I find that to be the biggest reason why it feels "insulting" for Sanji to be Zoro's equal. To me, it would just invalidate Zoro's role in the crew and all of the hard work he puts into training and getting stronger.

This is why I push so hard against Zoro = Sanji, especially because I can understand why some people may think that, so I treat those takes seriously. I can't understand Sanji > Zoro or Sanji >= Zoro takes, so I don't take them seriously.

In contrast, even though I heavily disagree with the notion that Zoro = Sanji, I can recognize that there are elements in the story that definitely seem to portray them as rivals and such. But it just strikes me as very presumptuous to take the "wings" reference as some sort of confirmation that they are equally strong
 
#18
Bro because it's one of the only things people bring up when trying to prove Zoro = Sanji nowadays and it just gets spam used to all hell

Meanwhile, I can't post a legitimately serious thread with coherent organization and thoughts without getting hit with "cope" and "copium"

I don't recall ever even saying anything even mildly bad about Sanji, and I thoroughly don't associate myself with people who spam "Lanji" "Zoro >>>>>>>>>> Sanji" and various other forms of back-and-forth garbage comments/posts just meant to piss people off
They have been portrayed as rivals/equals the entire story but Zoro fanboys ignore that
 
#19
They have been portrayed as rivals/equals the entire story but Zoro fanboys ignore that
I don't ignore it. I directly address it all the time. But many people also ignore a lot of the Luffy/Zoro portrayal that exists all throughout the series, which is why Zoro's position between Luffy and Sanji is almost always ambiguous.

And it's not just about the Luffy/Zoro dynamic, it's also about Zoro being directly described as the vice-captain and no. 2 both in story and by Oda in SBS and Vivre Cards, among tons of other trends and patterns.

I would make a thread encapsulating the whole M3 dynamic that includes all Luffy/Zoro and Zoro/Sanji parallels and the 3 of them as a whole, but it would be too long and I would probably just get 90% troll/shit-talking comments from both Zoro and Sanji fans
 
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