General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Logiko]

Every single one of us will die in real life before Oda kills either Yamato or Carrot, even the most delusional folks in this thread know in their rotten hearts that this is true

Carrot "death" would actually be quite logical and quite in sync with what she symbolise as the moon rabbit. If it were to happen, it should take the shape of a sacrifice. But this wouldn't really be her "death", more like a fake out. Carrot would be saved by someone or something.
[automerge]1641852693[/automerge]

No, you've taken it up to eleven and then sprinted passed go like your going to collect $200.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your sentence.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Carrot "death" would actually be quite logical and quite in sync with what she symbolise as the moon rabbit. If it were to happen, it should take the shape of a sacrifice. But this wouldn't really be her "death", more like a fake out. Carrot would be saved by someone or something.
[automerge]1641852693[/automerge]


I'm sorry, I didn't udnerstand your sentence.

Neither of them are going to die, something I can’t believe I still have to say about One Piece characters

 

[Unlimited Rulebook]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your sentence.

 

[Logiko]

Neither of them are going to die, something I can’t believe I still have to say about One Piece characters

It's just an hypothesis but for Carrot this would go in synch with the story of the Moon rabbit. The notion of sacrifice is very important in that myth (in most of the culture that have relayed that myth in fact):

In East Asia, the Jade Rabbit is a widespread cultural symbol, and the various legends associated with this Eastern bunny differ from country to country. This is how one Chinese legend, an ancient Buddhist story, goes…

The Jade Emperor disguised himself into a poor, starving old man and begged for food from monkey, otter, jackal, and rabbit. Monkey gathered fruit from the trees, and otter gathered fish from the river. Jackal stole a lizard and a pot of milk curds. Rabbit though, could only gather grass. Knowing well enough that grass can’t be offered as food to humans, rabbit decided to offer its own body, sacrificing itself in the fire the man had started. Somehow, though, rabbit wasn’t burned. The old man suddenly revealed himself to be the great Jade Emperor! Touched deeply by rabbit's selfless sacrifice, he sent it to the moon to become the immortal Jade Rabbit.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Carrot "death" would actually be quite logical and quite in sync with what she symbolise as the moon rabbit. If it were to happen, it should take the shape of a sacrifice. But this wouldn't really be her "death", more like a fake out. Carrot would be saved by someone or something.
[automerge]1641852693[/automerge]


I'm sorry, I didn't understand your sentence.

Never played the board game Monopoly?

 

[Logiko]

Never played the board game Monopoly?

[automerge]1641853518[/automerge]

ow ok

 

[Jew D. Boy]

It's just an hypothesis but for Carrot this would go in synch with the story of the Moon rabbit. The notion of sacrifice is very important in that myth (in most of the culture that have relayed that myth in fact):

In East Asia, the Jade Rabbit is a widespread cultural symbol, and the various legends associated with this Eastern bunny differ from country to country. This is how one Chinese legend, an ancient Buddhist story, goes…

The Jade Emperor disguised himself into a poor, starving old man and begged for food from monkey, otter, jackal, and rabbit. Monkey gathered fruit from the trees, and otter gathered fish from the river. Jackal stole a lizard and a pot of milk curds. Rabbit though, could only gather grass. Knowing well enough that grass can’t be offered as food to humans, rabbit decided to offer its own body, sacrificing itself in the fire the man had started. Somehow, though, rabbit wasn’t burned. The old man suddenly revealed himself to be the great Jade Emperor! Touched deeply by rabbit's selfless sacrifice, he sent it to the moon to become the immortal Jade Rabbit.

Carrot’s sacrifice (for who? Luffy, a guy she hasn’t seen since the raid began?) would largely be meaningless even if Oda found the balls to follow through for once, most of the audience hates her or simply doesn’t care; furthermore, if she was gonna do something like that, the fight with Perospero was the best opportunity she’d ever get to truly avenge Pedro, something that was handled by someone else after her loss. Every other fight is complete, so unless she dies while facing Big Mom, it’s not gonna happen now…and even I don’t have enough timely to delve into the psychology of saying her death would be the first significant moment she’s had in almost five real-life years (and maybe just the second overall), but woof

 

[Logiko]

Carrot’s sacrifice (for who? Luffy, a guy she hasn’t seen since the raid began?) would largely be meaningless even if Oda found the balls to follow through for once, most of the audience hates her or simply doesn’t care; furthermore, if she was gonna do something like that, the fight with Perospero was the best opportunity she’d ever get to truly avenge Pedro, something that was handled by someone else after her loss. Every other fight is complete, so unless she dies while facing Big Mom, it’s not gonna happen now…and even I don’t have enough timely to delve into the psychology of saying her death would be the first significant moment she’s had in almost five real-life years (and maybe just the second overall), but woof

That.. i don't know.. it's just feel "right" from a symbolism stand point. This is also something that could happen much later in the story, (Elbaf ? Even later..) for example during the moment I always talk about when Carrot might have to face again "the danger of the seas"

 

[KenshiraSonata]

@Kurodiamondo @KenshiraSonata
Treetop Pedro the Ninjaguardian

Yes he is, Jinbe and Pedro are the morning and evening guardians of Luffy, the pirate PK, the sun god.
[automerge]1641862034[/automerge]
Guys I understand most of you wants strong fighters to assist Luffy as his nakama, from Gin, Bellamy, Wiper, Paulie, Bon Clay, Fukaboshi, Monet, Pedro, and Yamato. All these are cool and strong ppl with something we like. But similarly, there are people who likes kawaii characters and you should respect them. I have a great respect for you @CarrotForNakama, even though, we might not agree on many things.

Finally, Carrot sucks and I am sorry

 

[Logiko]

Yes he is, Jinbe and Pedro are the morning and evening guardians of Luffy, the pirate PK, the sun god.
[automerge]1641862034[/automerge]
Guys I understand most of you wants strong fighters to assist Luffy as his nakama, from Gin, Bellamy, Wiper, Paulie, Bon Clay, Fukaboshi, Monet, Pedro, and Yamato. All these are cool and strong ppl with something we like. But similarly, there are people who likes kawaii characters and you should respect them. I have a great respect for you @CarrotForNakama, even though, we might not agree on many things.

Finally, Carrot sucks and I am sorry

Lmao.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

I think until last strawhat is official a member of the team the discussion will be close

Exactly, this thread won't close until before Laugh Tale...

 

[Kai. Do]

What do you mean by that ?

Oda the author is the only person who has control over what happens in the manga, if the manga says one thing or goes in one direction, whatever arguments or theories we as the readers come up with alternative or different to the manga won't change that fact. That's why fanfiction exists.
[automerge]1641878051[/automerge]

Sanji vs Katakuri ? How was this even a debate ? lol

Sanji vs Katakuri was a desire that was pushed heavily by the fans rather than Oda himself-with very little support from the manga, and it didn't end up happening. Carrot for Straw Hat is going in the same direction.
[automerge]1641878553[/automerge]

She did, for 2 chapter, but for the rest, It's will come don't worry

Not for a arc as a whole though, which is what all straw hats who joined were able to achieve before joining. It will come? When? I've never heard of a straw hat joining to get character development and focus after the climax of the conflict in a arc has already passed.
[automerge]1641879307[/automerge]

I have a theory about that (I wrote this in a private discord):

Wano is the climax of the Yonko saga, this is something Oda has been building up since the beginning of the story. And by "this" I mean the core of what the Yonko really is: - The large plot of Wano (The setup for the war and the war itself) - The few important storylines (Big Mom and Kaido / Yamato / The rise and fall of Onigashima / Luffy's rise to power / The strawhats / Momo's growth / The scabbard story / Oden and the Kozuki / Joyboy and the dawn.. - And mostly the themes (Parenthood / the Inherited will / The importance of the dawn / The legacy of Oden / the Japanese symbolism etc.) If you ask me what Oda is interested in right now, I'd say that his interest lies in those three things MOSTLY. And if I were to make a vast assumption.. I'd say that everything else is just optionnal to him at the moment (The little storylines / Characters development in the story [Sanji/Zoro] / The gestion of characters etc..) So if you'd ask me where is Carrot's place in all of that, I'd say, right at the bottom. If we follow the interview we knew to things: That Oda wasn't expecting to have such a long pretimeskip and that he has been wanting to write Wano for a very, very long time. So the themes and the overall plot must have taken such an important part of his mind that everything else became icing on the wedding cake.. and talking about wedding.. I would put my hand to the beast on the fact that Whole cake is actually an extension of Wano and that it was not here at first.


As I see it now, I think One Piece was just supposed to have a few islands to introduce the crew at first with a BIG middle point at Wano and the rest of the story being the race to the One Piece. So Oda might have had in mind most of his crew the end race of the story and of course the clash between the emperor at Wano.. I'd even go as far as saying that Big Mom and Kaido were supposed to be a couple during that arc a mom and a dad. But of course, when you write something so young, you are bound to make it grow, it how my.. does an idea grow and that without even thinking about it.. Oda then came up with Alabasta.. Vivi.. the shishibukai .. the supernovae .. maybe even Ace (that's debatable).. and the conflict that became Marineford.. Of course Oda didn't planned that at first.. We even have the clew in our interview taht Doffy was supposed to be a Wano fow, Dressora was therefore surely a late idea (I'd even bet on the date (2006) quote me on this lol).. Punk hazard being a dressrosa setup, it might have been the same) I'm still conflicted about Zou that might have been an earlier setup to Wano, Then (of before) Oda might have went with: "wait, what if I went rather for a "Mom" arc and a "Dad" arc instead of having two confused storylines in one..?" Whole cake was born. And with whole cake.. all the possibility of developping new characters.. like Carrot.. I often say that I think that Carrot was a late addition to the crew.. Carrot just feel like a narrative "DLC" (a good one) if we look closely at the story. I think (and I might be wrong on the pattern) that Oda had a plan for another strawhat, but that was not Carrot.. then he changed his mind.. and said to himself.. "why shouldn't I use the space of Whole cake to developp my new idea" Enters.. Carrot.. and all we know about her.. a strict construction of character during whole cake.. and then.. nothing..(almost)
I think that all of this is the reason why we don't see Carrot in Wano. This is not her story, she might have not even planned in it.. And Oda is so excited and focused on Wano that there is just no room for Carrot to grow. Does this mean that he forgot her ? NO. 1006 proved it. But he might only be able to do the minimum.. *

Of course all of this are nothing but assumptions. But this is what the story is whispering to me through it's construction

This whole wall of text (yes, i did read it all), isn't even a theory or argument. Its just endless rambling of excuses of assumptions. The only thing you have told me through this wall of text is that Carrot might have just been nothing more than an character created out of nowhere from the top of Oda's head, who was all so happy to write her into the story, until Oda didn't-whether its because Oda made a mistake, forgot about Carrot or got bored of her altogether-we don't know.
[automerge]1641880735[/automerge]

Because narratively it seems like she needed to lose. In short. Oda needed to say to Carrot some hard things about life through Perospero, in order for her to become stronger and join the strawhat. At least that how the story seems to direct Carrot to.

And how exactly does this help Carrot's case in joining the crew? Perospero was essentially saying that some people just aren't cut out for it. And Carrot losing to him proved his point. It also proved Pedro's point that everyone had to wait for their time to shine, just like Pedro who was refused by Roger to join his crew and was only able to shine decades later by blowing himself up.

Every member of the Straw Hat crew was extra-ordinary before they joined, but still had to improve themselves further for 2 years to survive the New World. Carrot lacks both, she is both ordinary and also didn't train in a 2 year time skip.

We are well past the point for weak characters to get stronger, that was supposed to happen in the time skip.
[automerge]1641881241[/automerge]

Because Perospero is not Carrot's personnal main antagonist.

Well if Perospero isn't Carrot's personal main antagonist then who is, or are you saying that Carrot doesn't have one? No Straw Hat who joined didn't have a personal main antagonist.
[automerge]1641881935[/automerge]

Same reasons. Oda only needed Perospero to defeat Carrot, the how was meaningless.

if you say that Perospero defeating Carrot off panel was meaningless then you probably also mean that Carrot isn't important and is worthless. Which Straw Hat ever lost their introduction or first important fight off screened? Zoro vs Mihawk wasn't of screened, Ussop vs Kuro and the Black Cat Pirates wasn't off screened, Sanji vs Pearl wasn't off screened, Nami vs Buggy wasn't off screened, Chopper vs Wapol wasn't off screened, Robin vs Crocodile wasn't off screened, Franky vs Rob Lucci wasn't off screened, Brook vs Ryuma wasn't off screened and Jinbe vs Akainu wasn't off screened either.

Why is Carrot vs Perospero off screened unlike the rest of the Straw Hats' important first fights and why is that okay?
[automerge]1641883934[/automerge]

Luffyonly save the strawhats from themself. He helps them get over their personnal conflict. In the case of Carrot VS Perospero.. it's her battle, and therefore her lose.

For the same reason Luffy didn't intervene between Zoro VS mihawk, Luffy wouldn't have intervene for carrot here. Carrot needed that loss to grow.

The difference here is that with the exception of Zoro vs Mihawk (whereby Zoro lost after asking for no interference in his fight explicitly, who Luffy intervened after Zoro lost anyway by trying to punch Mihawk), Luffy has always intervened to help their crewmembers' fights and struggles. Luffy didn't intervene in Zoro vs Mihawk because he was listening to Zoro, but he still intervened when Zoro was defeated since he saw it happen. For Carrot, Luffy wasn't even there to see her defeat against Perospero, much less help Carrot beat Perospero. He was absent the whole time.

The clear issue here is that Luffy not only does not recognize nor care for carrot's struggle and revenge for Pedro. He wasn't even there to see it happen.

Luffy intervened in Zoro vs Mihawk, he helped Sanji protect the baratie by taking on Don Krieg, he helped protect Ussop's village by taking on Kuro, he helped free nami's village by taking down Arlong, he helped Chopper protect a flag and saving him from being eaten by Wapol, Luffy waged war against the WG for Robin's freedom, he helped Franky by saving him from Rob Lucci so Franky can take his revenge on Spandam, he helped to get Brook's shadow back by taking on Moria, he helped free Jinbe so he could help Whitebeard and participate in the war.

Why hasn't luffy helped getting revenge for Carrot by taking down Persopero himself? Why hasn't Luffy protected Carrot when she was losing to Perospero? Why wasn't Luffy there to see here defeat. Why was it Nekomamushi who beat Perospero and not Luffy? Why didn't Luffy comfort Carrot after she lost to Perospero for the second and final time?

Its because Luffy doesn't know and doesn't care, the complete opposite for every other straw hat and their main villains'.
[automerge]1641885383[/automerge]

Because Carrot don't need a flashback, every bits of element we need (usually bringing out from flashbacks) are present in the current timeline of the story.

According to you, not to Oda and not to the manga. Every Straw hat who joined got their own extensive multiple chapter flashback, some times even more than one like Sanji. Carrot got none. We only got one panel of Pedro giving Carrot her electro claws, one panel, not one page, not one chapter and certainly not multiple long chapters for the rest of the straw hats, where they actually got longer and deeper for the later straw hats who joined. Carrot's past is shown shorter than even Ussop's, who had to be compensated in the anime by giving a additional flashback of Luffy and Yassop, ussop's father, and as well as the Daddy Masterson filler character to make up for Ussop.

The only thing we know about Carrot is that Pedro gave her electro claws, that's it. Flashbacks are used to explain a Straw Hat member's past and their reasons and motivations for their dreams and goals. Without a proper flashback Carrot has no solid lasting goal or dream. She wanted to go on adventure and get revenge for pedro, and both of them have been achieved, which is why she isn't suitable to join the crew as she has no further reasons, goals or dreams to pursue.

What drive she had in the present story, they have already been used up and served their purpose. Wanted revenge for Pedro? Perospero is already defeated by nekomamushi. Wanted to go on an adventure? Already went to WCI.

Carrot's flashback is too short and useless to create a goal and dream out of it. And without goals or dreams there is no reason to join Luffy's crew.
[automerge]1641886357[/automerge]

Because .. "Laying low." As I see it, Oda stays very subtle with Carrot. He will only do the minimum in order to surprise us later. So, the next time you really see Carrot, will most likely be at the very end of the arc after the strawhat's departure.

Laying low for what exactly, just to pop up on the ship at the very end of the Wano Arc when everything is all over, after disappearing for the majority of the arc? Oda isn't doing the minimum with carrot, he's doing nothing with Carrot at all. As i see it, he's been trying to write her out of the story to not return ever since Wano started.

Doing nothing and the minimum (if you can even call it that), is not subtlety, its called doing nothing at all. One Piece is a series about telling stories, its not a find Where's Wally puzzle book. The only thing that Oda has told us about Carrot is that she isn't important and doesn't matter, whether its now or later.
[automerge]1641888291[/automerge]

Carrot, now, will most likely fight alongside the Minks and "maybe" find a way to join back with Nami.. If we are lucky, we might even get a reunion of all the strawhats in the big scene of the manor.

If Oda follow his consistancy with Carrot here and if I'm right.. You will most likely not see Carrot do anything major until the very end of the arc.

Maybe, might, if i'm right, if we are lucky? Why such vagueness and lack of confidence?

So what you are saying is Oda will do a repeat of what Carrot has already done and that is have Carrot disappear for a majority of a arc and have her reappear at the end of the arc to do something major that will somehow make up for everything missing? What is this major thing exactly? Will it make up for her lack of panel time in Wano? Will it give her a real backstory flashback? Will it be iconic, memorable and worth the payoff of having been missing for so long? Please do explain as I'm curious since everyone complained about Oden's flashback being poor since it came out of nowhere with no setup and was so forced in and unsatisfying to read. Oden's sacrifice couldn't save his shitty character and writing. That's where your hinting Carrot's time is likely come about and also telling me that somehow it will be different and better when Oda already fucked that up when he tried it with Oden. Or are you telling me its gonna be like Pekoms where he sacrifices himself in the end in a moment of glory after being absent for the most of WCI, never to to return to the story again?
[automerge]1641888484[/automerge]

If it hasn't happened but there are clews in the story that it will.. it's not just air. It probability

What are these clues exactly?
[automerge]1641889115[/automerge]

At this point, I'm done trying to convince you, I have enough content on my blog to do that, you will just have to read it if you dare.. No.. now I'm just trying to warn you about what will happen with Carrot and Yamato in order for the majority of you not to scream at Oda when he will do his final choices.

Bruh no offense, but if you need a whole fucking blog to successfully explain why Carrot will join the crew and can't explain it in a few sentences or one paragraph then its probably not worth reading in the first place, ever heard of summaries?


[automerge]1641889581[/automerge]

No. That's not how storytelling analysis works.

Storytelling analysis is analyzing what is already happening in the story, what is available from the story and drawing conclusions from there, if its not drawing from the book, its source and available existing canon material then its not storytelling analysis, it's just theories that have no obligation nor guarantee to happen or come true.
[automerge]1641889865[/automerge]

The narrative of the story is actually very clear. THeir are no headcanon is saying that Carrot is at the begiining of her journey. It's a narrative fact. But I can understand that it might be hard to see.

So what is Carrot's story supposed to be then?

 

[jordin]

Bruh no offense, but if you need a whole fucking blog to successfully explain why Carrot will join the crew and can't explain it in a few sentences or one paragraph then its probably not worth reading in the first place, ever heard of summaries?

This and the fact that arguing for Carrot to join is seen as a challenge speaks volumes.

 

[Staticshadic]

Oda the author is the only person who has control over what happens in the manga, if the manga says one thing or goes in one direction, whatever arguments or theories we as the readers come up with alternative or different to the manga won't change that fact. That's why fanfiction exists.
[automerge]1641878051[/automerge]


Sanji vs Katakuri was a desire that was pushed heavily by the fans rather than Oda himself-with very little support from the manga, and it didn't end up happening. Carrot for Straw Hat is going in the same direction.
[automerge]1641878553[/automerge]


Not for a arc as a whole though, which is what all straw hats who joined were able to achieve before joining. It will come? When? I've never heard of a straw hat joining to get character development and focus after the climax of the conflict in a arc has already passed.
[automerge]1641879307[/automerge]


This whole wall of text (yes, i did read it all), isn't even a theory or argument. Its just endless rambling of excuses of assumptions. The only thing you have told me through this wall of text is that Carrot might have just been nothing more than an character created out of nowhere from the top of Oda's head, who was all so happy to write her into the story, until Oda didn't-whether its because Oda made a mistake, forgot about Carrot or got bored of her altogether-we don't know.
[automerge]1641880735[/automerge]


And how exactly does this help Carrot's case in joining the crew? Perospero was essentially saying that some people just aren't cut out for it. And Carrot losing to him proved his point. It also proved Pedro's point that everyone had to wait for their time to shine, just like Pedro who was refused by Roger to join his crew and was only able to shine decades later by blowing himself up.

Every member of the Straw Hat crew was extra-ordinary before they joined, but still had to improve themselves further for 2 years to survive the New World. Carrot lacks both, she is both ordinary and also didn't train in a 2 year time skip.

We are well past the point for weak characters to get stronger, that was supposed to happen in the time skip.
[automerge]1641881241[/automerge]


Well if Perospero isn't Carrot's personal main antagonist then who is, or are you saying that Carrot doesn't have one? No Straw Hat who joined didn't have a personal main antagonist.
[automerge]1641881935[/automerge]


if you say that Perospero defeating Carrot off panel was meaningless then you probably also mean that Carrot isn't important and is worthless. Which Straw Hat ever lost their introduction or first important fight off screened? Zoro vs Mihawk wasn't of screened, Ussop vs Kuro and the Black Cat Pirates wasn't off screened, Sanji vs Pearl wasn't off screened, Nami vs Buggy wasn't off screened, Chopper vs Wapol wasn't off screened, Robin vs Crocodile wasn't off screened, Franky vs Rob Lucci wasn't off screened, Brook vs Ryuma wasn't off screened and Jinbe vs Akainu wasn't off screened either.

Why is Carrot vs Perospero off screened unlike the rest of the Straw Hats' important first fights and why is that okay?
[automerge]1641883934[/automerge]


The difference here is that with the exception of Zoro vs Mihawk (whereby Zoro lost after asking for no interference in his fight explicitly, who Luffy intervened after Zoro lost anyway by trying to punch Mihawk), Luffy has always intervened to help their crewmembers' fights and struggles. Luffy didn't intervene in Zoro vs Mihawk because he was listening to Zoro, but he still intervened when Zoro was defeated since he saw it happen. For Carrot, Luffy wasn't even there to see her defeat against Perospero, much less help Carrot beat Perospero. He was absent the whole time.

The clear issue here is that Luffy not only does not recognize nor care for carrot's struggle and revenge for Pedro. He wasn't even there to see it happen.

Luffy intervened in Zoro vs Mihawk, he helped Sanji protect the baratie by taking on Don Krieg, he helped protect Ussop's village by taking on Kuro, he helped free nami's village by taking down Arlong, he helped Chopper protect a flag and saving him from being eaten by Wapol, Luffy waged war against the WG for Robin's freedom, he helped Franky by saving him from Rob Lucci so Franky can take his revenge on Spandam, he helped to get Brook's shadow back by taking on Moria, he helped free Jinbe so he could help Whitebeard and participate in the war.

Why hasn't luffy helped getting revenge for Carrot by taking down Persopero himself? Why hasn't Luffy protected Carrot when she was losing to Perospero? Why wasn't Luffy there to see here defeat. Why was it Nekomamushi who beat Perospero and not Luffy? Why didn't Luffy comfort Carrot after she lost to Perospero for the second and final time?

Its because Luffy doesn't know and doesn't care, the complete opposite for every other straw hat and their main villains'.
[automerge]1641885383[/automerge]


According to you, not to Oda and not to the manga. Every Straw hat who joined got their own extensive multiple chapter flashback, some times even more than one like Sanji. Carrot got none. We only got one panel of Pedro giving Carrot her electro claws, one panel, not one page, not one chapter and certainly not multiple long chapters for the rest of the straw hats, where they actually got longer and deeper for the later straw hats who joined. Carrot's past is shown shorter than even Ussop's, who had to be compensated in the anime by giving a additional flashback of Luffy and Yassop, ussop's father, and as well as the Daddy Masterson filler character to make up for Ussop.

The only thing we know about Carrot is that Pedro gave her electro claws, that's it. Flashbacks are used to explain a Straw Hat member's past and their reasons and motivations for their dreams and goals. Without a proper flashback Carrot has no solid lasting goal or dream. She wanted to go on adventure and get revenge for pedro, and both of them have been achieved, which is why she isn't suitable to join the crew as she has no further reasons, goals or dreams to pursue.

What drive she had in the present story, they have already been used up and served their purpose. Wanted revenge for Pedro? Perospero is already defeated by nekomamushi. Wanted to go on an adventure? Already went to WCI.

Carrot's flashback is too short and useless to create a goal and dream out of it. And without goals or dreams there is no reason to join Luffy's crew.
[automerge]1641886357[/automerge]


Laying low for what exactly, just to pop up on the ship at the very end of the Wano Arc when everything is all over, after disappearing for the majority of the arc? Oda isn't doing the minimum with carrot, he's doing nothing with Carrot at all. As i see it, he's been trying to write her out of the story to not return ever since Wano started.

Doing nothing and the minimum (if you can even call it that), is not subtlety, its called doing nothing at all. One Piece is a series about telling stories, its not a find Where's Wally puzzle book. The only thing that Oda has told us about Carrot is that she isn't important and doesn't matter, whether its now or later.
[automerge]1641888291[/automerge]


Maybe, might, if i'm right, if we are lucky? Why such vagueness and lack of confidence?

So what you are saying is Oda will do a repeat of what Carrot has already done and that is have Carrot disappear for a majority of a arc and have her reappear at the end of the arc to do something major that will somehow make up for everything missing? What is this major thing exactly? Will it make up for her lack of panel time in Wano? Will it give her a real backstory flashback? Will it be iconic, memorable and worth the payoff of having been missing for so long? Please do explain as I'm curious since everyone complained about Oden's flashback being poor since it came out of nowhere with no setup and was so forced in and unsatisfying to read. Oden's sacrifice couldn't save his shitty character and writing. That's where your hinting Carrot's time is likely come about and also telling me that somehow it will be different and better when Oda already fucked that up when he tried it with Oden. Or are you telling me its gonna be like Pekoms where he sacrifices himself in the end in a moment of glory after being absent for the most of WCI, never to to return to the story again?
[automerge]1641888484[/automerge]


What are these clues exactly?
[automerge]1641889115[/automerge]


Bruh no offense, but if you need a whole fucking blog to successfully explain why Carrot will join the crew and can't explain it in a few sentences or one paragraph then its probably not worth reading in the first place, ever heard of summaries?


[automerge]1641889581[/automerge]


Storytelling analysis is analyzing what is already happening in the story, what is available from the story and drawing conclusions from there, if its not drawing from the book, its source and available existing canon material then its not storytelling analysis, it's just theories that have no obligation nor guarantee to happen or come true.
[automerge]1641889865[/automerge]


So what is Carrot's story supposed to be then?

glad to see you back again

 

[Logiko]

Oda the author is the only person who has control over what happens in the manga, if the manga says one thing or goes in one direction, whatever arguments or theories we as the readers come up with alternative or different to the manga won't change that fact. That's why fanfiction exists.

That's the theory. in pratice it can be different. A angry fanbase can have an impact on the product. We have seens that happening multiple times in the last few years. And that one of the reasons why I'm so fierce on that thread. If a good influence is always good (in practice, the story is always evolving and an author always listen to his readers, with that symbolic exhange there can't be a good communication), but when that influence is starting to go through the dark side, it's damaging, not only for the story, but for the authors themselves.

Sanji vs Katakuri was a desire that was pushed heavily by the fans rather than Oda himself-with very little support from the manga, and it didn't end up happening. Carrot for Straw Hat is going in the same direction.

At the difference that Carrot for Nakama is supported by elements in the story itself when Luffy vs Katakuri was just a fan wet dream.

Not for a arc as a whole though, which is what all straw hats who joined were able to achieve before joining. It will come? When? I've never heard of a straw hat joining to get character development and focus after the climax of the conflict in a arc has already passed.

Correction (I have to make this one a lot lately somehow) it's a missconception to think that all the strawhats have strong arc when they join:

- First we must not mix up the joining and recrutment. Out of all the strawhats Nami/Robin/Jinbe didn't had a strong arc when they joined the crew.
- In fact even when they are recruted, the strawhats don't necessarely have a strong arc. Brook for example only appeared a few time during his arc BUT he had a strong moment. Jinbe had a flashback during Fishmen Island but was actually officialzed much later.

- Carrot is in the same situation as Nami and Robin were. They joined without a strong arc, there real moment only came later. That is one the story of Carrot is heading to. So again.. don't worry, it will come, probably around Elbaf. ;)

This whole wall of text (yes, i did read it all), isn't even a theory or argument. Its just endless rambling of excuses of assumptions. The only thing you have told me through this wall of text is that Carrot might have just been nothing more than an character created out of nowhere from the top of Oda's head, who was all so happy to write her into the story, until Oda didn't-whether its because Oda made a mistake, forgot about Carrot or got bored of her altogether-we don't know.

Those whole of text are neither theory or arguments, they are analysis of the storytelling. Something people aren't so used to here.
Don't dissmiss an analys just because it doesn't suit your agenda, you need to go much deeper than that

Because narratively it seems like she needed to lose. In short. Oda needed to say to Carrot some hard things about life through Perospero, in order for her to become stronger and join the strawhat. At least that how the story seems to direct Carrot to.

And how exactly does this help Carrot's case in joining the crew?
Perospero was essentially saying that some people just aren't cut out for it. And Carrot losing to him proved his point. It also proved Pedro's point that everyone had to wait for their time to shine, just like Pedro who was refused by Roger to join his crew and was only able to shine decades later by blowing himself up.

Every member of the Straw Hat crew was extra-ordinary before they joined, but still had to improve themselves further for 2 years to survive the New World. Carrot lacks both, she is both ordinary and also didn't train in a 2 year time skip.

We are well past the point for weak characters to get stronger, that was supposed to happen in the time skip.
[automerge]1641881241[/automerge]

Because of this

The whole arc of Carrot until now revolved around her appreciation of the sea. Carrot is very naive and mostly appreciative of the world.. so when Pedro died Carrot was attacked directely into the core of her character.

Basically since that moment there was a potential subtext with Carrot "how can the sea be so wonderfull if I loose friends on it?"

Until chapter 1006 it was just a potential subtext as there was no actual clews that this was actually what Carrot was thinking but Oda choosed to make Perospero say those few words :

"Vengeance for Pedro? What did you think would happen ? That you'd waltz into our home and set up a nice little picnic in the territory of the dreaded Big Mom Pirates ?"

By saying that, Oda is directly attacking Carrot's character into her core: Her joy in front of the world, her constant wonder, her naivety.

In basic narration, what Oda did is setup a base for a potential and little character arc (but a very important one, you will understand).

Let's explicit Perospero's words shall we: The first half of his sentence is therefore: "you are too naive and too cheerfull to become a pirate and that's why you won't be able to get over your friends being in danger"

You see the problem ?

1. Perospero is a bad guy, he has been depicted like it and has been acted like it and because of that, what he said to Carrot is actually not what should happen in the near future. Writers tends to make bad guys provoc the protagonists to make them go stronger and to prove that there are wrong. This is also the case here:

2.. Oda here is attacking himself with the opposite message he is trying to convey since the beginning of the story: Being naive and cheerful are actually quite the qualities to become a pirates (hi Luffy) or to sail on the sea, not the opposite.

Then Perospero adds

"[...] you should have stayed in the forest and nibbled at your grass Rabbit!! That's were you belong."

Here you can translate that as "because of what I said you don't belong on the sea, you belong on your island"

This is the most important part of the dialogue. This is a narrative challenge on Carrot related to what Perospero just said:

> Either Perospero is true, and being cheerful and naive is a bad thing to be a pirate and Carrot belong to her island
> Or Perospero is wrong, being cheerful and naive is not a bad thing t to be a pirate and Carrot do has a shot on the seas.

What do you think is the right answer here ?

Of course, the second. That's why I think this defeat for Carrot was actually a little setup to make us (and Carrot) understand that, it's okay to be all cheerful and all, People are gonna get in danger, but that doesn't negate the wonder of the seas. And that should not stop you from wanting adventure.

I think Oda will come back to this actual dialogue, at the very moment when Carrot must make a choice. To be a stowaway again (because she loves adventure) or staying back with the mink on Zou..

And that's why this little dialogue was so important. Rather that diminishing Carrot chances.. it did the opposite, it setupe Carrot as a true pirate and a strawhat.


It's not a story about becoming stronger physically, but mentally. (also, all the strawhats are getting stronger and stronger, bad argument.)

Well if Perospero isn't Carrot's personal main antagonist then who is, or are you saying that Carrot doesn't have one? No Straw Hat who joined didn't have a personal main antagonist.

Technically, Perospero is still Carrot's antagonist, it's just an antagonist that Carrot won't have to beat in hand combat. But if we were to look deeper, Carrot's only antagonist is herself.

if you say that Perospero defeating Carrot off panel was meaningless then you probably also mean that Carrot isn't important and is worthless.

i didn't say that. I said that a combat with how Oda is planning the story of Carrot would have been meaningless. NUANCE.
So this end of your sentence is also meaningless.

Which Straw Hat ever lost their introduction or first important fight off screened? Zoro vs Mihawk wasn't of screened,
Ussop vs Kuro and the Black Cat Pirates wasn't off screened, Sanji vs Pearl wasn't off screened, Nami vs Buggy wasn't off screened, Chopper vs Wapol wasn't off screened, Robin vs Crocodile wasn't off screened, Franky vs Rob Lucci wasn't off screened, Brook vs Ryuma wasn't off screened and Jinbe vs Akainu wasn't off screened either.

Why is Carrot vs Perospero off screened unlike the rest of the Straw Hats' important first fights and why is that okay?

Because in most of those instances, the fight mattered. There was actual content provided by the fighting clashes (in the case of ZOro it was obvious for exemple) . A fight that is meaningless doesn't need to be on screen. With Carrot, only the defeat was important. oda is a master of conscision, Even more so in those contemporary years than before so.. expect to see a lot of meaningless fight offscreened in the near future... wait.. it has already happened!

The difference here is that with the exception of Zoro vs Mihawk (whereby Zoro lost after asking for no interference in his fight explicitly, who Luffy intervened after Zoro lost anyway by trying to punch Mihawk), Luffy has always intervened to help their crewmembers' fights and struggles. Luffy didn't intervene in Zoro vs Mihawk because he was listening to Zoro, but he still intervened when Zoro was defeated since he saw it happen. For Carrot, Luffy wasn't even there to see her defeat against Perospero, much less help Carrot beat Perospero. He was absent the whole time.

Wrong, Luffy is always intervening when a character ask for help. Or when the character has lost. That's the whole point of his psychology "Hero vs Pirate"

The clear issue here is that Luffy not only does not recognize nor care for carrot's struggle and revenge for Pedro. He wasn't even there to see it happen.

And that's something that happens often. For example, Luffy was not there to help Brook during his trouble against his antagonist Ryuma, only Zoro was.

The thing is, Luffy is not here to help his crew mates. he is here to fight the main antagonist in order to protect THEM, from HIM

Luffy intervened in Zoro vs Mihawk, he helped Sanji protect the baratie by taking on Don Krieg, he helped protect Ussop's village by taking on Kuro, he helped free nami's village by taking down Arlong, he helped Chopper protect a flag and saving him from being eaten by Wapol, Luffy waged war against the WG for Robin's freedom, he helped Franky by saving him from Rob Lucci so Franky can take his revenge on Spandam, he helped to get Brook's shadow back by taking on Moria, he helped free Jinbe so he could help Whitebeard and participate in the war.

And in those situation, Luffy was asked for help. Remember Robin ? Luffy only acted the MOMENT Robin said "I wanna live". Luffy will support his Nakama and always fight the main threat, but he doesn't help them in their personnal conflict UNLESS they ask for Help directly (Nami for example). But to really understand that you have to be careful not to mix up the main threat VS the main antagonist/personnal conflicts of the strawhats.

Why hasn't luffy helped getting revenge for Carrot by taking down Persopero himself? Why hasn't Luffy protected Carrot when she was losing to Perospero? Why wasn't Luffy there to see here defeat. Why was it Nekomamushi who beat Perospero and not Luffy? Why didn't Luffy comfort Carrot after she lost to Perospero for the second and final time?

Its because Luffy doesn't know and doesn't care, the complete opposite for every other straw hat and their main villains'.

Again, because Luffy doesn't do that. Luffy is not a hero nor a conforter, he is a pirate and a captain. If Carrot ask for help, he will help her, but if doesn't there is no way in hell that he will intervene in the fight, even if Carrot loses. That's HER fight, that's HER burden.

Why did nekomamushi beat Perospero ? Because he was mad about Pedro, simply..

You people really need to stop looking at Luffy as a hero. Luffy is the future King of the pirates, not a caretaker.

According to you, not to Oda and not to the manga. Every Straw hat who joined got their own extensive multiple chapter flashback, some times even more than one like Sanji. Carrot got none. We only got one panel of Pedro giving Carrot her electro claws, one panel, not one page, not one chapter and certainly not multiple long chapters for the rest of the straw hats, where they actually got longer and deeper for the later straw hats who joined. Carrot's past is shown shorter than even Ussop's, who had to be compensated in the anime by giving a additional flashback of Luffy and Yassop, ussop's father, and as well as the Daddy Masterson filler character to make up for Ussop.

Yes, they ALL had flashbacks.. but what's important is not the flashback itself they had.. but the CONTENT of the flashback. In all of the strawhats flashbacks (like I explained earlier) there are the introduction of three things that will be MAJOR for the construction of the character:

- The need, what the character will need to overcome in order to live happely
- The purpose, what the cahracter will look for
- The moral Pillar, the personn who will be a moral pillar for the cahracter in it's contstrucrtion but also for his future.

Those three things can be developped and hinted at WITHOUT a flashback. Oda only used a flashback because it was the most efficient way to proceed, but it can be done in another way.

That's the case of Carrot. Those THREE things are developped directly in the present storyline. Therefore Oda doesn't need to create a flashback, he has already everything.

The only thing we know about Carrot is that Pedro gave her electro claws, that's it. Flashbacks are used to explain a Straw Hat member's past and their reasons and motivations for their dreams and goals. Without a proper flashback Carrot has no solid lasting goal or dream. She wanted to go on adventure and get revenge for pedro, and both of them have been achieved, which is why she isn't suitable to join the crew as she has no further reasons, goals or dreams to pursue.

.. and that Pedro was a major part of her life. remember : "show don't tell" Oda told her a lot more things about PEdro and Carrot than just "he gave her gloves".. Carrot was close enough to Pedro and probably honored enough by his teaching to wear a green cape. Being the only mink possessing such a sign. Carrot and PEdro are also sharing the same interests for high, we can therefore deduce that Carrot look-out interest was inherited directly from PEdro.. Pedro also teach her a lot about her potential etc.

At this point, there is no real need to give us more about the relationship between PEdro and Carrot other than developping something completely new.

Carrot journey doesn't revolve around the revenge of Pedro, it revolve around the discovery of the world and the danger that lie behind it. Something that Carrot must understand before departing again.

What drive she had in the present story, they have already been used up and served their purpose. Wanted revenge for Pedro? Perospero is already defeated by nekomamushi. Wanted to go on an adventure? Already went to WCI.

Carrot's flashback is too short and useless to create a goal and dream out of it. And without goals or dreams there is no reason to join Luffy's crew.

Like I said, it's not about revenge, it's about self discovery. you are looking only in the light, look at the shadow.

Laying low for what exactly, just to pop up on the ship at the very end of the Wano Arc when everything is all over, after disappearing for the majority of the arc? Oda isn't doing the minimum with carrot, he's doing nothing with Carrot at all. As i see it, he's been trying to write her out of the story to not return ever since Wano started.

Yup. For surprise purpose and for the running gag.

Doing nothing and the minimum (if you can even call it that), is not subtlety, its called doing nothing at all. One Piece is a series about telling stories, its not a find Where's Wally puzzle book. The only thing that Oda has told us about Carrot is that she isn't important and doesn't matter, whether its now or later.
.

Carrot has already done enough, she saved the crew in whole cake permitting them to be there during the war, she saved Marco, permitting him to save the strawhats.. now she will battle alongside nekomushi and that's perfectly fine.

if you think the only thing Oda as told us is that Carrot is not important, you haven't been looking at the story. At all.

Maybe, might, if i'm right, if we are lucky? Why such vagueness and lack of confidence?

Because I'm first an analyst not a theorist.

So what you are saying is Oda will do a repeat of what Carrot has already done and that is have Carrot disappear for a majority of a arc and have her reappear at the end of the arc to do something major that will somehow make up for everything missing?

No, Oda doesn't need to "make up for something that is missing" Wano is not Carrot's story, she is not "missing" fromthe story of wano, only those who don't understand the story would think that. But yeah.. Oda will repeat the same Gag he did on Zou.

Because.. why not ?

What is this major thing exactly? Will it make up for her lack of panel time in Wano? Will it give her a real backstory flashback? Will it be iconic, memorable and worth the payoff of having been missing for so long? Please do explain as I'm curious since everyone complained about Oden's flashback being poor since it came out of nowhere with no setup and was so forced in and unsatisfying to read. Oden's sacrifice couldn't save his shitty character and writing. That's where your hinting Carrot's time is likely come about and also telling me that somehow it will be different and better when Oda already fucked that up when he tried it with Oden. Or are you telling me its gonna be like Pekoms where he sacrifices himself in the end in a moment of glory after being absent for the most of WCI, never to to return to the story again?

The major thing (relative to the importance of Carrot in this arc) will most likely be a self questionnement from Carrot to herself about her journey. This won't be iconic nor impactfull. She already had that in 888 and 889. And like I said, nothing is "missing".

What are these clues exactly?

I've made a blog talking about ALL that. Here you go, have fun.

Bruh no offense, but if you need a whole fucking blog to successfully explain why Carrot will join the crew and can't explain it in a few sentences or one paragraph then its probably not worth reading in the first place, ever heard of summaries?

No I don't need a whole blog to explain that Carrot is gonna join, I only need one panel:

The blog was made for those who don't understand the obvious.

Storytelling analysis is analyzing what is already happening in the story, what is available from the story and drawing conclusions from there, if its not drawing from the book, its source and available existing canon material then its not storytelling analysis, it's just theories that have no obligation nor guarantee to happen or come true.

Ever heard about patterns in a story ?

So what is Carrot's story supposed to be then?

That.. you will have to find out
[automerge]1641905122[/automerge]

This and the fact that arguing for Carrot to join is seen as a challenge speaks volumes.

It's not the arguing part that is a challenge, is the construction of the argument behind it. And it's exceptionnaly exciting.

 

[Kai. Do]

That's the theory. in pratice it can be different. A angry fanbase can have an impact on the product. We have seens that happening multiple times in the last few years. And that one of the reasons why I'm so fierce on that thread. If a good influence is always good (in practice, the story is always evolving and an author always listen to his readers, with that symbolic exhange there can't be a good communication), but when that influence is starting to go through the dark side, it's damaging, not only for the story, but for the authors themselves.

So you admit that Carrot's chances of joining the crew aren't good enough, which is why you argue so hard for her in this thread and created that blog, all in the hopes that one day by some miracle Oda will see your blog and fulfil your wishes?
[automerge]1641907134[/automerge]

At the difference that Carrot for Nakama is supported by elements in the story itself when Luffy vs Katakuri was just a fan wet dream.

You still haven't provided a good argument nor explanation of why Carrot will join the crew, if you did, then you wouldn't need to be working so hard in trying to gain Oda's attention to your blog, you said so yourself. Luffy vs Katakuri was also not just a fan wet dream, it came unexpectedly and that was Oda's own decision. There were way more people wanting Sanji vs Katakuri instead, if their voices were louder, why didn't they succeed in getting Oda to give Katakuri to Sanji instead of Luffy, just like what you are trying to do now in getting Oda to force him to write Carrot joining the crew?

If Carrot for Nakama is supported by elements in the story like you say it is, then why do you still need to be working so hard in trying to convince Oda?

 

[Logiko]

So you admit that Carrot's chances of joining the crew aren't good enough, which is why you argue so hard for her in this thread and created that blog, all in the hopes that one day by some miracle Oda will see your blog and fulfil your wishes?

You missed my point. I'm not arguing in that thread for the Carrotfornakama theory because Carrot has no chances but the opposite !

I know Carrot will join the crew, and I know that some fan here are going be VERY surprised by the writing of Yamato at the end of the arc..

So.. in such a toxic environment.. Damage control is needed in order to make people accept that Carrot and Yamato's fate were sealed long ago and that their is no need to call Oda Names.

You still haven't provided a good argument nor explanation of why Carrot will join the crew, if you did, then you wouldn't need to be working so hard in trying to gain Oda's attention to your blog, you said so yourself. Luffy vs Katakuri was also not just a fan wet dream, it came unexpectedly and that was Oda's own decision. There were way more people wanting Sanji vs Katakuri instead, if their voices were louder, why didn't they succeed in getting Oda to give Katakuri to Sanji instead of Luffy, just like what you are trying to do now in getting Oda to force him to write Carrot joining the crew?

If you don't want to read the blog, that's your right, but don't tell that I don't give you any evidences ;)

If Carrot for Nakama is supported by elements in the story like you say it is, then why do you still need to be working so hard in trying to convince Oda?

I don't work to convince Oda, I work to convince you blind people lol

 

[Kai. Do]

You missed my point. I'm not arguing in that thread for the Carrotfornakama theory because Carrot has no chances but the opposite !

I know Carrot will join the crew, and I know that some fan here are going be VERY surprised by the writing of Yamato at the end of the arc..

And damage control in order to make people accept CArrot and Yamato's fate was sealed long ago and that their is no need to call Oda Names.

Well if your so confident that Carrot will join, why do you still need Oda to see your blog? Do you believe Oda will choose to have Carrot join or don't you?
[automerge]1641908151[/automerge]

I don't work to convince Oda, I work to convince you blind people lol

Trying to convince us the readers does jack shit as we don't have any control over the One Piece IP, nor are we Oda's editors. If you think that we people are blind then why are you still replying and writing to us if you think we can't see or read what you write?

 

[Logiko]

Well if your so confident that Carrot will join, why do you still need Oda to see your blog? Do you believe Oda will choose to have Carrot join or don't you?

Yes Oda will choose (or more so has already choosen) Carrot...

But.. Why do you think I need Oda to see my blog ? I've never said that..

 

[Kai. Do]

Yes Oda will choose (or more so has already choosen) Carrot...

But.. Why do you think I need Oda to see my blog ? I've never said that..

Cause you just said so yourself that the reason you write your blog is for Oda to see and convince him to change his writing to your tune. If its not for Oda to see, then why are you so fierce in that thread?