General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
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In a sence, this is right, and nothing here devalues what I just said.
Antagonist do opposes the protagonist. But the protagonists are not always the same.
In One Piece, the protagonist is and ALWAYS will be Luffy. This is not up for debate.
When i'm talking about Brook, I'm talking about the protagonist of Brook against his own conflict, not in relation to the arc. Because brook as almost nothing to do with the arc of Moria, he is just there a bit once by fighting against Ryuma, the other by fighting with th strawhat against Orz.
Brook is NOT impacted by the action of Moria, the antagonist of Luffy, but he is impacted by his own antagonist : Ryuma (or himself)
An antagonist and a protagonist always goes together. This is again, not up for debate, this is a foundamental rule.
Carrot is not an exception to that rule, Perospero was most likely Carrot's antagonist.
Nah, now I decided that I will try to convince you :D (I love the challenge)
And ? Carrot is in the center of the panel. It doesn't take Picasso to understand what Oda is trying to tell us here.. wait.. I udnerstand that noone here is actually understanding that panel..
sad..
Wrong on wuat
Antagonist do opposes the protagonist. But the protagonists are not always the same.
In One Piece, the protagonist is and ALWAYS will be Luffy. This is not up for debate.
When i'm talking about Brook, I'm talking about the protagonist of Brook against his own conflict, not in relation to the arc. Because brook as almost nothing to do with the arc of Moria, he is just there a bit once by fighting against Ryuma, the other by fighting with th strawhat against Orz.
Brook is NOT impacted by the action of Moria, the antagonist of Luffy, but he is impacted by his own antagonist : Ryuma (or himself)
An antagonist and a protagonist always goes together. This is again, not up for debate, this is a foundamental rule.
Carrot is not an exception to that rule, Perospero was most likely Carrot's antagonist.
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Nah, now I decided that I will try to convince you :D (I love the challenge)
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You keep showing this as ALL SHTRAW HATS together but ignore the full panel, then show promotional material that doesnt include Carrot in the line of straw hat role call on the sides
sad..
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Wrong on wuat
The Post- Roles have until the end of the arc to reveal themselves. I already told you this. If you take Carrot's early role of climbing on the Sunny as the timeframe benchmark then more than half of the crew wouldn't make the list to join. We only saw Franky's shipwright skills in his flashback at Enies Lobby, not even in the Water Seven Arc. We only saw Jinbe's helmsman skills near the end of the WCI Arc, he also only sailed a ship at the end of the impel down arc too. And since you think that the nakama shining action is tied to their role, then that also means that the role can only happen at the end of the arc and not now. IF Yamato's role has to with the ship specifically, then she can't show us that right now as onigashima is floating in the sky and all the ships are still on the seas below. At the very least we will need to wait for Kaido to be defeated and for his powers to deactivate.
There are roles and shining nakama actions can't be happen until the end of the arc when a ship is actually available. This is a broken argument and you know it. The only reason Carrot's role got highlighted at all is because she had the luxury of being on the ship at the very beginning, that is a special privilege that NO other straw hat has.
We have to see more to judge, then why are you judging now?
There are roles and shining nakama actions can't be happen until the end of the arc when a ship is actually available. This is a broken argument and you know it. The only reason Carrot's role got highlighted at all is because she had the luxury of being on the ship at the very beginning, that is a special privilege that NO other straw hat has.
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We have to see more to judge, then why are you judging now?
No, it makes no sense. Why would Oda go through all the trouble of Making Specific about Yamato and her background and making her connected to Luffy, more so than any other character outside of Ace/Sabo/Garp/Dragon etc. At this point she could literally be considered a sister to Luffy, like Ace was.
All of the SHs were pre planned, or at least their concepts. Vivi wasn't supposed to join but Oda thought about making her join causes he liked her that much, but ultimately decided against it to continue the original plan.
Why would Oda change plans just for Carrot, especially given how little attention he's given her? If he really liked the character he'd give her more screen time like he did others.
Why would Oda change plans just for Carrot, especially given how little attention he's given her? If he really liked the character he'd give her more screen time like he did others.
I pretty much disagree with this whole section here. Carrot's real defining choice was going after Perospero on Wano. There she had the time and comfort to make that choice.
Pedro's death can't be considered the most defining as Carrot didn't have the choice to make a difference there. If Carrot was given a chance to save Pedro, but was unable to act on it then that can be considered a defining choice. But Pedro was gonna die regardless of Carrot's imput. The only thing that Carrot could do is stand and watch, that's not a choice.
Carrot didn't only just spent a lot of time with the crew before joining, she's the ONLY one to spend a lot of time with the crew before joining. No other straw hat has this luxury, if it only covers one person then it can't be considered a criteria. Criteria's are the rules, not the exceptions.
Pedro's death can't be considered the most defining as Carrot didn't have the choice to make a difference there. If Carrot was given a chance to save Pedro, but was unable to act on it then that can be considered a defining choice. But Pedro was gonna die regardless of Carrot's imput. The only thing that Carrot could do is stand and watch, that's not a choice.
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Carrot didn't only just spent a lot of time with the crew before joining, she's the ONLY one to spend a lot of time with the crew before joining. No other straw hat has this luxury, if it only covers one person then it can't be considered a criteria. Criteria's are the rules, not the exceptions.
Okay, first i had to look up thematic incarnation on Google and that term doesn't even exist, you just pulled that out of your ass.
Secondly, what your speaking about is something very general with few variations, that if we were to apply to the existing straw hats many would have very general if not overlapping themes. Sanji and Chopper kindness, Zoro bravery and loyalty, jinbe loyalty and wisdom etc, etc. They are general and they overlap, and you can pretty much apply this to any and all one piece characters in the series, not just the straw hats. Your 'thematic incarnation' rule is too broad and general and not a good measuring stick, since the only requirement is to have a 'good moral quality'. Yamato's moral quality can very easily be vigilance, a good contrast and opposite to Oden's carelessness and recklessness. Oden always leaves everything to till the last minute to act while Yamato always acts when required and strikes the iron while its hot. That is a very clear example what you like to call thematic incarnation that also contrasts well with Oden. And its also stronger than Carrot's Wonder, as Wonder doesn't necessarily translate to the benefits of others. Wonder is a much less noble thematic incarnation than Vigilance. Yamato wins the point here.
I asked @CarrotForNakama this exact question and he told me Carrot doesn't need one.
This whole post here reeks of your bias bullshit. Yamato had to make the difficult choice of whether to go against Kaido or not, at the risk of losing and Kaido killing her, that was a question of life and death and a challenge of survival. Yamato also had to make the difficult choice of forgoing her revenge on Kaido and instead go save Onigashima from crashing into Wano and Kuri, that was a moral question and challenge of Yamato holding back her temptations or revenge.
Carrot's challenge and choice of accepting Pedro's death is a much weaker one as there are no real consequences nor real action required to be taken. And Carrot didn't even really even accept Pedro's death, she was all fine with it Kuri and the start of onigashima, until she saw Perospero again during the raid. She went from sad in WCI, to fine in Kuri, to happy and fun again in Onigashima, to anger and anguish again when she encountered Perospero again. And fine again when Perospero was defeated by Neko, she goes back and fourth so easily like a seesaw, there was nothing strong, challenging about that. It was as easy as a performance. It also required little to no effort as everything happened in her head.
Her resolve is much weaker than Yamato's, therefore Yamato gets the full points here in the strong character arc and Carrot gets none.
Secondly, what your speaking about is something very general with few variations, that if we were to apply to the existing straw hats many would have very general if not overlapping themes. Sanji and Chopper kindness, Zoro bravery and loyalty, jinbe loyalty and wisdom etc, etc. They are general and they overlap, and you can pretty much apply this to any and all one piece characters in the series, not just the straw hats. Your 'thematic incarnation' rule is too broad and general and not a good measuring stick, since the only requirement is to have a 'good moral quality'. Yamato's moral quality can very easily be vigilance, a good contrast and opposite to Oden's carelessness and recklessness. Oden always leaves everything to till the last minute to act while Yamato always acts when required and strikes the iron while its hot. That is a very clear example what you like to call thematic incarnation that also contrasts well with Oden. And its also stronger than Carrot's Wonder, as Wonder doesn't necessarily translate to the benefits of others. Wonder is a much less noble thematic incarnation than Vigilance. Yamato wins the point here.
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I asked @CarrotForNakama this exact question and he told me Carrot doesn't need one.
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This whole post here reeks of your bias bullshit. Yamato had to make the difficult choice of whether to go against Kaido or not, at the risk of losing and Kaido killing her, that was a question of life and death and a challenge of survival. Yamato also had to make the difficult choice of forgoing her revenge on Kaido and instead go save Onigashima from crashing into Wano and Kuri, that was a moral question and challenge of Yamato holding back her temptations or revenge.
Carrot's challenge and choice of accepting Pedro's death is a much weaker one as there are no real consequences nor real action required to be taken. And Carrot didn't even really even accept Pedro's death, she was all fine with it Kuri and the start of onigashima, until she saw Perospero again during the raid. She went from sad in WCI, to fine in Kuri, to happy and fun again in Onigashima, to anger and anguish again when she encountered Perospero again. And fine again when Perospero was defeated by Neko, she goes back and fourth so easily like a seesaw, there was nothing strong, challenging about that. It was as easy as a performance. It also required little to no effort as everything happened in her head.
Her resolve is much weaker than Yamato's, therefore Yamato gets the full points here in the strong character arc and Carrot gets none.
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If Carrot had lot of favoritism by oda She would have had a lot of highlight moments that made her an important character throughout acts 1-3 of Wano. Oda could direct her character into working alongside with Luffy and zoro in helping the citizens of wano. Act 2 she would have been alongside with chopper to rescue Luffy from prison or helping the other strawhats at the plaza. Act 3 she should of work alongside the strawhats when they were at the tori gate, or do what nami, ussop and Chopper being the cheer leading squad at that moment in time. She could have taken down the drunken guards that were along the coast. She could have protected momo alongside with shinbou, fight against one of the flying six members. We could have seen her fight fully display and seeing her character grow as someone who could possibly be among the strawhats. We would have had more of added dialogue that relates to her own past life that could related to a future arc. She would of elaborate what the dawn Pedro spoke of. Luffy or any strawhats would have fought against perospero, Jack, or Kanjuro. Heck, the one-piece official YouTube channel and even toei animation would have marketed her as main character alongside the alliance. Her fight would have been highlight throughout the course of raid. Plus, we would of saw carrot in the special volume covers which are Volume 99, Volume 100, and volume 101. When the strawhats were all assemble doing there fighting pose ready for battle where was carrot among them? Taking pictures of their pose and crying she is not there? No, she went to do her own personal thing. Before the raid, when the strawhats were about toast for Jimbei for finally joining the crew, Carrot is hardly even mentioned as added member to the team. She is being push to the background and has become secondary character and having non-straw-hat deal with her own personal main antagonist “But wano is not carrot arc” So fucking what? Skypia was not about Robin However, she had a lot of highlight moment and insight to her character that fans can remember. Heck she was in various color spread alongside the strawhats. Carrot only had two she was not even with all strawhats. When you say Carrot is Favorties by Oda I have to facepalm I have asked are you really paying attention to this arc currently or still behind reading whole cake island because we have move on from that arc. Sure, big mom and her family are here in this arc, but big mom's family are not onigashima right now only one member family is.
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You're making this sound a lot more complicated than it is. Brook had his shadow stolen by Moriah, making him unable to leave the florian triangle. Therfore Moriah opposed Brook, making him an antagonist to Brook. It doesn't matter that Brook isn't the main character.
And since you've ignored this point twice in a row, I'll say it one more time, and if you don't respond to it again, I'll just assume you're ignoring it because you know I'm right. Even if you ignore the term antagonist, you can still say that every strawhat had a deep connection to the arc villain in the arc where they joined. Either debate this, or tell me why Carrot is an exception.
And since you've ignored this point twice in a row, I'll say it one more time, and if you don't respond to it again, I'll just assume you're ignoring it because you know I'm right. Even if you ignore the term antagonist, you can still say that every strawhat had a deep connection to the arc villain in the arc where they joined. Either debate this, or tell me why Carrot is an exception.
It is VERY UNFAIR to compare Yamato and Carrot in this regard as carrot has 3 arcs to get all the points. Far longer than any straw hat who joined. Plus the majority of this interaction happens on the Sunny such as when Carrot bit Luffy's ears, the only real interaction Carrot and Luffy had during WCI on the island was when Luffy saved Carrot from Katakuri, also happening on the ship. These are feats and interactions that NO other straw hat claim, even though other straw hat had much deeper, dire and more meaningful interactions with Luffy than just travelling with him. Like for example Jinbe and Luffy meeting in Impel Down in Prison, Zoro and Luffy meeting as he about to be executed, Yamato and Luffy meeting in the middle of a war, right above kaido's head in a attic with explosive cuffs on with minutes away from Momo being executed. Carrot's in comparison are much more forgettable and much less memorable.
The other BIG ISSUE you are dismissing in regards to Carrot's interactions with Luffy and the crew is CONTINUITY. Whatever interaction with Luffy and the crew Carrot had and gained is completely forgotten and thrown out in Wano. Carrot returned to the Minks and remains to be so ever since. This alone hurts her interactions with Luffy overall, no matter how much they interacted before.
Carrot doesn't even consider her interactions with Luffy to be all that precious, she wasn't there when the group shot happened as the crew assembled together for their first group shot after Jinbe's return. Carrot was missing from the most important interaction and group shot of Wano, the Yonko Saga and the Post Time Skip, and that was the group shot of the crew rallying around Luffy to help him reach Kaido so luffy can defeat him, the first true step to becoming Pirate King. Every single Straw Hat made the declaration this arc that Luffy will be the Pirate King, Yamato included. Carrot has made no such declaration in the span of 3 arcs. That speaks volume of how worthless Carrot and Luffy's interactions are if they don't even care about each others dreams.
The other BIG ISSUE you are dismissing in regards to Carrot's interactions with Luffy and the crew is CONTINUITY. Whatever interaction with Luffy and the crew Carrot had and gained is completely forgotten and thrown out in Wano. Carrot returned to the Minks and remains to be so ever since. This alone hurts her interactions with Luffy overall, no matter how much they interacted before.
Carrot doesn't even consider her interactions with Luffy to be all that precious, she wasn't there when the group shot happened as the crew assembled together for their first group shot after Jinbe's return. Carrot was missing from the most important interaction and group shot of Wano, the Yonko Saga and the Post Time Skip, and that was the group shot of the crew rallying around Luffy to help him reach Kaido so luffy can defeat him, the first true step to becoming Pirate King. Every single Straw Hat made the declaration this arc that Luffy will be the Pirate King, Yamato included. Carrot has made no such declaration in the span of 3 arcs. That speaks volume of how worthless Carrot and Luffy's interactions are if they don't even care about each others dreams.
Saying unlikely does not mean its impossible. Even you acknowledge the possibility of Yamato's role being revealed can still happen in this arc and would count as a point in Yamato's favour.
You also don't know if Carrot being on the mast is because that will be Carrot's role on the ship as per Oda's intention, of if Carrot's doing it just because she's never left Zou before, so she climbs the mast to watch the beautiful oceans as its a once in a lifetime chance, until she has to leave the crew and return to Zou at the end of the Wano arc with her fellow minks. That is another possibility that can happen as part of Oda's plans, that you didn't take into consideration.
You also don't know if Carrot being on the mast is because that will be Carrot's role on the ship as per Oda's intention, of if Carrot's doing it just because she's never left Zou before, so she climbs the mast to watch the beautiful oceans as its a once in a lifetime chance, until she has to leave the crew and return to Zou at the end of the Wano arc with her fellow minks. That is another possibility that can happen as part of Oda's plans, that you didn't take into consideration.
you picked panels to fulfill your own agenda, intentionally cropping them. It’s not rocket science. Here’s for example:
“SOME” literally means some. It doesn’t even “MOST”. Learn proper english first.
and if you want to post your theories and hypothesis, there’s another section in this website called “ONE PIECE THEORIES AND SPECULATIONS.” You can simply copy & paste your blog there and try to convince people. Simple
She’s having lesser role even than Zeus means that she’s irrelevant. It’s not rocket science. You were the one who said so yourself that every Straw Hat needs to be important BEFORE joining. If Carrot joins post WCI, that’s understandable. But if Carrot joins after Wano? She’s irrelevant in Wano and you can’t change that.
New goalposts because I explained & gave example LMAO. And that was pre-timeskip time, where Oda still had much time to explain.
New goalposts again. Not surprising
a perfect example how you cherry picked anything to fulfill your own agenda. Intentionally editing out Wanda & background to fit it.
Own words twisting with basically similar meaning. Seriously, you need to learn proper english so people can understand you.
You don’t know. Settled and done.
And that’s what you want to believe, not how you see how the story goes. Pretty much contradicting your own words again
And this page counters that. Has Carrot had this amazing 2 page of combination attack with Luffy? IIRC there’s none. Even Oda intentionally made Yamato revert back to her human form while Luffy was about to be there.
and another thing about which Oda prefers is the relevance Oda gives to Yamato. If he prefers Carrot; again, he could’ve simply given Yamato’s relevance to Carrot. What I meant manga panels is not just the drawing, but also the dialogue and context. Aren’t you an analyst? You should know that manga panels are complete package of drawing & dialogue. But instead, you cherry picked anything just to fulfill your agenda.
Even when we give you the real image, you said “bUt C4rRoT iS tHe cEnT3R” and you’re trying so hard to prove you’re an analyst. If you’re an analyst, you should know that image and dialogue can’t be separated.
Because you keep answering with your hypothesis, analysis, theories. Even if you based from manga, you intentionally edit it to fulfill your own agenda.
“Suspect” and yeah you’re still discrediting one of Oda’s main target audiences. And we all can see who has got his brain twisted to the point of being delusional
He intentionally ignored this point which RavagerBlade has pointed before because it doesn’t fulfill his own agenda.
“SOME” literally means some. It doesn’t even “MOST”. Learn proper english first.
and if you want to post your theories and hypothesis, there’s another section in this website called “ONE PIECE THEORIES AND SPECULATIONS.” You can simply copy & paste your blog there and try to convince people. Simple
She’s having lesser role even than Zeus means that she’s irrelevant. It’s not rocket science. You were the one who said so yourself that every Straw Hat needs to be important BEFORE joining. If Carrot joins post WCI, that’s understandable. But if Carrot joins after Wano? She’s irrelevant in Wano and you can’t change that.
New goalposts because I explained & gave example LMAO. And that was pre-timeskip time, where Oda still had much time to explain.
New goalposts again. Not surprising
Yes Carrot has higher chances than Yamato and I only need one panel for that. This panel has the strenght to be self sufficient. It's litterally ALL you should need to prove the point of Carrot. But.. seems like even manga panels proofs are not enough for the likes of you.
a perfect example how you cherry picked anything to fulfill your own agenda. Intentionally editing out Wanda & background to fit it.
Own words twisting with basically similar meaning. Seriously, you need to learn proper english so people can understand you.
You don’t know. Settled and done.
And that’s what you want to believe, not how you see how the story goes. Pretty much contradicting your own words again
And this page counters that. Has Carrot had this amazing 2 page of combination attack with Luffy? IIRC there’s none. Even Oda intentionally made Yamato revert back to her human form while Luffy was about to be there.
and another thing about which Oda prefers is the relevance Oda gives to Yamato. If he prefers Carrot; again, he could’ve simply given Yamato’s relevance to Carrot. What I meant manga panels is not just the drawing, but also the dialogue and context. Aren’t you an analyst? You should know that manga panels are complete package of drawing & dialogue. But instead, you cherry picked anything just to fulfill your agenda.
Even when we give you the real image, you said “bUt C4rRoT iS tHe cEnT3R” and you’re trying so hard to prove you’re an analyst. If you’re an analyst, you should know that image and dialogue can’t be separated.
Because you keep answering with your hypothesis, analysis, theories. Even if you based from manga, you intentionally edit it to fulfill your own agenda.
“Suspect” and yeah you’re still discrediting one of Oda’s main target audiences. And we all can see who has got his brain twisted to the point of being delusional
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He intentionally ignored this point which RavagerBlade has pointed before because it doesn’t fulfill his own agenda.
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