General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags #carrot4prison #furries4carrot #larrot #yamato4nakama #yamatofansunite #yamatoisnakama carrot blows cry about carrot furries for nakama furries scurries i need my support carrot body pillow oni princess and the pirate king this thread stupid we're here for jew vs dizzy who wants rabbit stew yamato > carrot yamato best girl yamato finds the one piece yamato hype yamato is the last crew mate
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Cus he ain't scared to war he got a clapback for all of yall, yall ain't punking shit 
Spandam isn't Franky's main villain
Robin was a side character in Alabasta
Carrot is more special than Law
And Carrot counts as an active crewmember while Kinemon does not.
I know right? The guy is basically the equivalent of a flat earther in the One Piece community. No amount of rational discussion or debunking of his “arguments“ with actual evidence is gonna convince him otherwise. As long as it feeds his ego and makes him feel more important and smarter than everyone else, he will continue posting his incoherent novels on here.
I do however find him clowning himself and constantly being dunked on quite amusing. The guy’s done a better job on this thread at turning people away from Carrot being a future SH than any anti-Carrot person could have ever dreamed of.
I do however find him clowning himself and constantly being dunked on quite amusing. The guy’s done a better job on this thread at turning people away from Carrot being a future SH than any anti-Carrot person could have ever dreamed of.
I think the problem is that he focuses so much on Yamato not joining when he would have a better time on here if he focused purely on making Carrot work. Trying to argue Carrot joining at all is hard enough, but trying to argue that she's going to join over Yamato is borderline impossible.
What really makes it confusing is that from what I can see Yamato joining would have very little effect on his ideal plans for Carrot. She would still be a surprise member and she would still get her moments in future arcs. Adding to that he has said that he doesn't hate Yamato and I have no idea why there's so much focus on her in the first place.
I think the red herring argument could've worked if the only time Yamato hinted at adventuring was at the beginning when she was introduced to Luffy. But, she has said it multiple times now with her various flashbacks giving her a massive push, 1024 is actually what fully convinced me that Yamato is joining the crew.
What really makes it confusing is that from what I can see Yamato joining would have very little effect on his ideal plans for Carrot. She would still be a surprise member and she would still get her moments in future arcs. Adding to that he has said that he doesn't hate Yamato and I have no idea why there's so much focus on her in the first place.
I think the red herring argument could've worked if the only time Yamato hinted at adventuring was at the beginning when she was introduced to Luffy. But, she has said it multiple times now with her various flashbacks giving her a massive push, 1024 is actually what fully convinced me that Yamato is joining the crew.
Just a heads up. I thinkit would be much more efficiant if you were working with the quoiting system.. because I need to cut your text to reply to each point here.. and I don't know the context.. just fyi
A fast change yes, like being suddenly afraid of the sea why not.. (it would have made sence at the time) but not a radical switch of personnality for no reason, the change has to be logical. Carrot wanting to get back to zou would have made sence just after Pedro's death, but Oda was clear that this death didn't affect Carrot's enjoyement for the world in anyway.. he even managed to increase it.:
A change from that point to "I'm going back to Zou" now, would make no sence OR, would be a false flag and a subversion dialogue
Ex:
Well I dot not agree, I think for that to be cleared, we would need a third traduction. Either way, the point of this match wasnot to beat Perospero, but to be defeated so it doesn't not matter too much. If carrot were to encounter Perospero again, it would be a clear win, I could bet my house on that. That's would be logical.
lol I know how change works
i also explained that change might happen rapidely BUT the "counter force" must be proportionnal. For Carrot to be wanting to go back to Zou at this point.. her only post there (as a musketteer) would not be sufficiant Why ? Because that post didn't kept her from leaving the first time. Now, she knows the danger of the sea and she is still excited about it. Plus, the situation hasn't changed on ZOu, noone really need her, and now that the Duke are reunited, her position as Kingbird will be meaningless so she has even less reason to go back. so the "counter force" is not enough. to retake the metaphor of the ship I made on my blog: Carrot is crashing directely toward the planet "i'm gonna take the sea with my new friends" and there is nothing at this point that can stop her from a character standpoint.
About her mindset, in fact I don't know. i'm hesitant. Either she will have a change of mindset in Wano and she will go with the strawhats with a strong mindset (she would need to be brieffed about the dawn or something about the mink for that)
or..
Her mindset will not change during Wano. She will keep her naive side and she will stowaway again for the same reasons than before, only to get slapped later on by someone or a situation (and THEN she will change her mindset to be less naive about the world)
The thing is that we don't know yet in what stage Carrot is in.
She could be near the stage of acceptation where she understand the danger and will be faced with a last choice: to stay or to leave
Or she is still the second act of her character development being : making more and more mistakes until that mistakes hurt someone she loves
I'm personnally leaning toward the second, mostly because it's the most interesting one. But in both case, it would still end up in a choice to leave with the strawhat. That's the whole point of One Piece. Carrot represent a "new Luffy" for the new readers, someone with a strong sence of adventure. Making her go back to Zou for no reason would make no sence and would go against the principles of the story.
To go back, Carrot would need to be litterally at the same point of Vivi. And even then remember how close it was ? The only thing that could kept Carrot from leaving Zou is if we suddenly discover that she is the "futur of the mink", "the heir to the Mink throne" or something with that much responsibilities.. and even that.. Carrot is just not the character fit to take such responsibilities.. like she is constructed now.. she would be like "nope, I don't want that, see ya" lmao
She is just 15 !! reponsibilities is not what she will need to understand.. yet. Carrot needs to learn, but the only way she can really learn is through fire, that's how all the character did that. She does not need a training, she just needs to grow a little.
uh no. Carrot is far from rock bottom, she could also hurt someone she loves because of her naivety, this would actually be very good storytelling...and that would be something to see. That could indeed make people dislike her, (for bad reasons) but remember that Oda follows his characters first.. even if what they do might choc the audience. Remember Sanji and his choice to call for help to Robin ? People HATED that. still, not only it was the best choice, but it was necessary to make sanji grow.. and how boi did he grew.. and people finally accepted that.
Every story leads to a change of mindset. It doesn't mean that the mindset will be completely different. Sometime (in flat character arcs mostly) the mindset of the character is not changed too much : it get's strongered(?). but in most story, the mindset must change.. yamato is not heading toward something similar, everything points to a complete 180°
Its not about being right, or wrong. It's about being faced with a choice at the end of a character arc. You know.. Yamato could very well be invited to the crew by Luffy (it would be strange if we look at the narration, but possible) but this would only put her in front of a choice:
Do I go and abandon Wano and Momo but live the life on sea
Or
Do I abandon my wish to go at sea, but I stay to help Momo and this way.. i'm finally accepted and saluted by people.
That's what a good choice is all about. PErsonnally, I lean moretoward the second. As far as we are, the story is pointing toward that choice.
Her mindset will stay the same (I want freedom and being accepted) but it would not be in the same situation.
Remember (i'm anticipating your next question) her dream will stays the same, in Wano, she will still have adventures and freedom, it will just be different that what she thought.
I think the change in Yamato's mindset will be similar to the impact Luffy had on Katakuri. It will not directely impact the story right now, but it might become very significant later with the fall of the two emperors and the great war. This is hypothesis territory so I can't go too far.
you are the only one not dismissing my arguments with laugher, when the others will do the same, I might change my mind.
Of course, back stories have multiple purpose. But you have to understand that the purpose of the backstory of Oden or Kyros or Law is not the same as the purpose of the backstory of Chopper or Nami. The end result is not the same. backstories are just tools. SOmetimes they are used to add lore, sometimes to explain a situation, sometimes to give us elements important to understand a character, sometimes they are also here just to hype up the entrance of a character (999/1000 for example) .. there are many usages for the backstories.
No. Check Truby's "anatomy of the story" or even "Story" by mc Kee, and go to the section of the antagonist. You will see that the antagonist is the one character that will challenge the most the protagonist on his values.
The main villains (Arlong / Crocodile / Moria / Enel etc..) are NOT ALL that. At least for thestrawhat in question (Brook for Moria, Krieg for sanji etc.) BUT.. they are ALL the antagonist of the character of Luffy
If ARlong was indeed connected to Nami, Krieg was NOT connected to sanji, Gin was. For a pure value standpoint.
If Crocodile was indeed connected to Vivi, Moria was NOT connected to brook, Ryuma was.
It's all about the values put on the battlefield.. Sometime (in the case of Brook for example) this is not the strawhat that will deal with the antagonist, but another. This doesn't change the fact that Brook was deeply challenged mentally by Ryuma. It was a fight against himself mostly.
There is a big difference between the antagonists of the strawhats and the antagonist of Luffy, because let's not forget that Luffy is still the main charater.
Carrot IS an outcast because she is first a mink. Like Jinbe as a fishman is an outcast, Carrot as a mink is part of a outcasted tribe. So as a strawhat member, Carrot would therefore be "the mink girl" (in fact you can see that during chapter 888, the opposite look-out calls Carrot "the mink girl in the ennemy crew".
Also there is that meta thing about the rabbits on boat and I'm 100% that Oda knows about it.
Why not ? 
:queenhear:
A fast change yes, like being suddenly afraid of the sea why not.. (it would have made sence at the time) but not a radical switch of personnality for no reason, the change has to be logical. Carrot wanting to get back to zou would have made sence just after Pedro's death, but Oda was clear that this death didn't affect Carrot's enjoyement for the world in anyway.. he even managed to increase it.:
A change from that point to "I'm going back to Zou" now, would make no sence OR, would be a false flag and a subversion dialogue
Ex:
Well I dot not agree, I think for that to be cleared, we would need a third traduction. Either way, the point of this match wasnot to beat Perospero, but to be defeated so it doesn't not matter too much. If carrot were to encounter Perospero again, it would be a clear win, I could bet my house on that. That's would be logical.
lol I know how change works
i also explained that change might happen rapidely BUT the "counter force" must be proportionnal. For Carrot to be wanting to go back to Zou at this point.. her only post there (as a musketteer) would not be sufficiant Why ? Because that post didn't kept her from leaving the first time. Now, she knows the danger of the sea and she is still excited about it. Plus, the situation hasn't changed on ZOu, noone really need her, and now that the Duke are reunited, her position as Kingbird will be meaningless so she has even less reason to go back. so the "counter force" is not enough. to retake the metaphor of the ship I made on my blog: Carrot is crashing directely toward the planet "i'm gonna take the sea with my new friends" and there is nothing at this point that can stop her from a character standpoint.
About her mindset, in fact I don't know. i'm hesitant. Either she will have a change of mindset in Wano and she will go with the strawhats with a strong mindset (she would need to be brieffed about the dawn or something about the mink for that)
or..
Her mindset will not change during Wano. She will keep her naive side and she will stowaway again for the same reasons than before, only to get slapped later on by someone or a situation (and THEN she will change her mindset to be less naive about the world)
The thing is that we don't know yet in what stage Carrot is in.
She could be near the stage of acceptation where she understand the danger and will be faced with a last choice: to stay or to leave
Or she is still the second act of her character development being : making more and more mistakes until that mistakes hurt someone she loves
I'm personnally leaning toward the second, mostly because it's the most interesting one. But in both case, it would still end up in a choice to leave with the strawhat. That's the whole point of One Piece. Carrot represent a "new Luffy" for the new readers, someone with a strong sence of adventure. Making her go back to Zou for no reason would make no sence and would go against the principles of the story.
To go back, Carrot would need to be litterally at the same point of Vivi. And even then remember how close it was ? The only thing that could kept Carrot from leaving Zou is if we suddenly discover that she is the "futur of the mink", "the heir to the Mink throne" or something with that much responsibilities.. and even that.. Carrot is just not the character fit to take such responsibilities.. like she is constructed now.. she would be like "nope, I don't want that, see ya" lmao
She is just 15 !! reponsibilities is not what she will need to understand.. yet. Carrot needs to learn, but the only way she can really learn is through fire, that's how all the character did that. She does not need a training, she just needs to grow a little.
uh no. Carrot is far from rock bottom, she could also hurt someone she loves because of her naivety, this would actually be very good storytelling...and that would be something to see. That could indeed make people dislike her, (for bad reasons) but remember that Oda follows his characters first.. even if what they do might choc the audience. Remember Sanji and his choice to call for help to Robin ? People HATED that. still, not only it was the best choice, but it was necessary to make sanji grow.. and how boi did he grew.. and people finally accepted that.
Every story leads to a change of mindset. It doesn't mean that the mindset will be completely different. Sometime (in flat character arcs mostly) the mindset of the character is not changed too much : it get's strongered(?). but in most story, the mindset must change.. yamato is not heading toward something similar, everything points to a complete 180°
Its not about being right, or wrong. It's about being faced with a choice at the end of a character arc. You know.. Yamato could very well be invited to the crew by Luffy (it would be strange if we look at the narration, but possible) but this would only put her in front of a choice:
Do I go and abandon Wano and Momo but live the life on sea
Or
Do I abandon my wish to go at sea, but I stay to help Momo and this way.. i'm finally accepted and saluted by people.
That's what a good choice is all about. PErsonnally, I lean moretoward the second. As far as we are, the story is pointing toward that choice.
Her mindset will stay the same (I want freedom and being accepted) but it would not be in the same situation.
Remember (i'm anticipating your next question) her dream will stays the same, in Wano, she will still have adventures and freedom, it will just be different that what she thought.
I think the change in Yamato's mindset will be similar to the impact Luffy had on Katakuri. It will not directely impact the story right now, but it might become very significant later with the fall of the two emperors and the great war. This is hypothesis territory so I can't go too far.
you are the only one not dismissing my arguments with laugher, when the others will do the same, I might change my mind.
Of course, back stories have multiple purpose. But you have to understand that the purpose of the backstory of Oden or Kyros or Law is not the same as the purpose of the backstory of Chopper or Nami. The end result is not the same. backstories are just tools. SOmetimes they are used to add lore, sometimes to explain a situation, sometimes to give us elements important to understand a character, sometimes they are also here just to hype up the entrance of a character (999/1000 for example) .. there are many usages for the backstories.
No. Check Truby's "anatomy of the story" or even "Story" by mc Kee, and go to the section of the antagonist. You will see that the antagonist is the one character that will challenge the most the protagonist on his values.
The main villains (Arlong / Crocodile / Moria / Enel etc..) are NOT ALL that. At least for thestrawhat in question (Brook for Moria, Krieg for sanji etc.) BUT.. they are ALL the antagonist of the character of Luffy
If ARlong was indeed connected to Nami, Krieg was NOT connected to sanji, Gin was. For a pure value standpoint.
If Crocodile was indeed connected to Vivi, Moria was NOT connected to brook, Ryuma was.
It's all about the values put on the battlefield.. Sometime (in the case of Brook for example) this is not the strawhat that will deal with the antagonist, but another. This doesn't change the fact that Brook was deeply challenged mentally by Ryuma. It was a fight against himself mostly.
There is a big difference between the antagonists of the strawhats and the antagonist of Luffy, because let's not forget that Luffy is still the main charater.
Carrot IS an outcast because she is first a mink. Like Jinbe as a fishman is an outcast, Carrot as a mink is part of a outcasted tribe. So as a strawhat member, Carrot would therefore be "the mink girl" (in fact you can see that during chapter 888, the opposite look-out calls Carrot "the mink girl in the ennemy crew".
Also there is that meta thing about the rabbits on boat and I'm 100% that Oda knows about it.
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I know with my whole heart that C4N thinks of himself as the lone shining vanguard against a dark wave of Yamato stans, and that he believes he’ll be on the right side of history despite an embarrassing amount of evidence that indicates he’ll have to settle for a compromise (assuming the rabbit does tag along once Yamato joins) *at best*…what I don’t know, and what I’ll never understand even with an explanation, is WHY 
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:queenhear:
No. The evidences for Carrot are high while the evicences forYamato are low.. you really don't read what I'm writing do you xD
Again wrong, Oda already done this. your are just ignoring the fact that I already debunked you on that lmao
It's like I said.. I'm talking to a void that keeps repeting the same arguments over and over, even when we prove it wrong lol just because you can't accept to be wrong.
No, you are called bird name because when you ask a question and I reply, you keep repeating the question or the first affirmation as there was never any reply lol (like here) gadly, you are not all like that
#NotAllMen.. oops nevermind.
I have no doubt he genuinely believes in what he says. It's just the manner he chooses to display it. He walks into forums saying "Carrot 100% is joining and anyone believing Yamato instead is too biased and stretching". Then when people give points against it, it always comes back to how you should trust his ironclad analysis and how he knows OP better. He's not overtly toxic, but antagonism and gaslighting like that is how trolls are. What's the point in taking his words seriously if he isn't really doing the same for yours, ya know?
That's the funny part. 0 people converted to Carrot's side. 0 people changed by his words. I tried telling him that a while ago, but he said he's only here for fun.
That's the funny part. 0 people converted to Carrot's side. 0 people changed by his words. I tried telling him that a while ago, but he said he's only here for fun.
Yeah, well, if I haven’t proven time and again that I’m willing to take the bait, I’m telling y’all now that seeing the same shit over and over will get me going 
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lol
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Yup I do
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You want to come back to that, even when we have talk about it fine.. let's al come back to that. Screenshot time!!!!!!
No seriously tho, you should have noticed by now that I'm no toxic. I'm persistant, sometime a bit passive agressive yes.. and definitelly trollish. But there is (almost) no toxicity from me without a reason, so take a guess. Why did I got permaban ?
Because I was too much to handle that's why. When someone inside the system is calling out the system.. the system and it's pon tend to attack that someone lol
The difference between that forum and this one.. is just that you are okay with people calling out the system here.
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Lol there is no point in that reasonning process of your when you ask yourself..
And what if he was right ? And doing this because we are wrong.. hmm...
I mean..
It can't be something THAT simple.. it must be that I'm secretely trolling (trust me I am lol)
Of course.. Being wrong is never an option lol
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lmao this is so fun
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I know right? The guy is basically the equivalent of a flat earther in the One Piece community. No amount of rational discussion or debunking of his “arguments“ with actual evidence is gonna convince him otherwise. As long as it feeds his ego and makes him feel more important and smarter than everyone else, he will continue posting his incoherent novels on here.
I do however find him clowning himself and constantly being dunked on quite amusing. The guy’s done a better job on this thread at turning people away from Carrot being a future SH than any anti-Carrot person could have ever dreamed of.
I do however find him clowning himself and constantly being dunked on quite amusing. The guy’s done a better job on this thread at turning people away from Carrot being a future SH than any anti-Carrot person could have ever dreamed of.
Let's look at it like that. I'm one of the only Carrot defender walking in a Yamato territory: The only one bringing actual evidences, manga panels, rationnal reasonning, skeptical bases, a good amount of work on the theory, storytelling tools, storytelling knowledge..
But.. i'm the flat earther ?? Oh boi.. G. Ockham must be flipping back and forth into his tumb.. xD
Did you noticed that there are only two people here in month of discussions who actually came back at least once on their word ?
Sigran and myself.
The only two people here who have an actual discussion. Of course we disagree.. but we do not laugh at our points (at least for now) and when we are wrong.. we are willing to take a step back.
I even deleted this afternoon an entire parameter of text because someone DID make a good point for once.
So.. flat earther maybe..
But 'im talking to a bunch of reptilian conspirationnist here..
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Not really. For someone who's work as been the study of storytelling it's not that hard. But I understand that it comes as surprising.
Indeed. Yamato joining would be meaningless for the story of Carrot. Although you are wrong, I do have hypothesis on the reason why Yamato as so much focus.
Flashback are usefull for the strawhat when they bring good element to understand the purpose and the needs of the character. Those flashback were not enough for me.
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i'm passionnate about storytelling and challenge lol
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Lol no, It's just a google image. if you prefer, there is this one (which is a actual official art celebrating the reunion of the strawhats !
But I'm sure you will find some excuse to dissmiss such a proof again.
One panel.. only ONE is enough
But I'm sure you will find some excuse to dissmiss such a proof again.
One panel.. only ONE is enough
Just a heads up. I thinkit would be much more efficiant if you were working with the quoiting system.. because I need to cut your text to reply to each point here.. and I don't know the context.. just fyi
A fast change yes, like being suddenly afraid of the sea why not.. (it would have made sence at the time) but not a radical switch of personnality for no reason, the change has to be logical. Carrot wanting to get back to zou would have made sence just after Pedro's death, but Oda was clear that this death didn't affect Carrot's enjoyement for the world in anyway.. he even managed to increase it.:
A change from that point to "I'm going back to Zou" now, would make no sence OR, would be a false flag and a subversion dialogue
Ex:
Well I dot not agree, I think for that to be cleared, we would need a third traduction. Either way, the point of this match wasnot to beat Perospero, but to be defeated so it doesn't not matter too much. If carrot were to encounter Perospero again, it would be a clear win, I could bet my house on that. That's would be logical.
lol I know how change works
i also explained that change might happen rapidely BUT the "counter force" must be proportionnal. For Carrot to be wanting to go back to Zou at this point.. her only post there (as a musketteer) would not be sufficiant Why ? Because that post didn't kept her from leaving the first time. Now, she knows the danger of the sea and she is still excited about it. Plus, the situation hasn't changed on ZOu, noone really need her, and now that the Duke are reunited, her position as Kingbird will be meaningless so she has even less reason to go back. so the "counter force" is not enough. to retake the metaphor of the ship I made on my blog: Carrot is crashing directely toward the planet "i'm gonna take the sea with my new friends" and there is nothing at this point that can stop her from a character standpoint.
About her mindset, in fact I don't know. i'm hesitant. Either she will have a change of mindset in Wano and she will go with the strawhats with a strong mindset (she would need to be brieffed about the dawn or something about the mink for that)
or..
Her mindset will not change during Wano. She will keep her naive side and she will stowaway again for the same reasons than before, only to get slapped later on by someone or a situation (and THEN she will change her mindset to be less naive about the world)
The thing is that we don't know yet in what stage Carrot is in.
She could be near the stage of acceptation where she understand the danger and will be faced with a last choice: to stay or to leave
Or she is still the second act of her character development being : making more and more mistakes until that mistakes hurt someone she loves
I'm personnally leaning toward the second, mostly because it's the most interesting one. But in both case, it would still end up in a choice to leave with the strawhat. That's the whole point of One Piece. Carrot represent a "new Luffy" for the new readers, someone with a strong sence of adventure. Making her go back to Zou for no reason would make no sence and would go against the principles of the story.
To go back, Carrot would need to be litterally at the same point of Vivi. And even then remember how close it was ? The only thing that could kept Carrot from leaving Zou is if we suddenly discover that she is the "futur of the mink", "the heir to the Mink throne" or something with that much responsibilities.. and even that.. Carrot is just not the character fit to take such responsibilities.. like she is constructed now.. she would be like "nope, I don't want that, see ya" lmao
She is just 15 !! reponsibilities is not what she will need to understand.. yet. Carrot needs to learn, but the only way she can really learn is through fire, that's how all the character did that. She does not need a training, she just needs to grow a little.
uh no. Carrot is far from rock bottom, she could also hurt someone she loves because of her naivety, this would actually be very good storytelling...and that would be something to see. That could indeed make people dislike her, (for bad reasons) but remember that Oda follows his characters first.. even if what they do might choc the audience. Remember Sanji and his choice to call for help to Robin ? People HATED that. still, not only it was the best choice, but it was necessary to make sanji grow.. and how boi did he grew.. and people finally accepted that.
Every story leads to a change of mindset. It doesn't mean that the mindset will be completely different. Sometime (in flat character arcs mostly) the mindset of the character is not changed too much : it get's strongered(?). but in most story, the mindset must change.. yamato is not heading toward something similar, everything points to a complete 180°
Its not about being right, or wrong. It's about being faced with a choice at the end of a character arc. You know.. Yamato could very well be invited to the crew by Luffy (it would be strange if we look at the narration, but possible) but this would only put her in front of a choice:
Do I go and abandon Wano and Momo but live the life on sea
Or
Do I abandon my wish to go at sea, but I stay to help Momo and this way.. i'm finally accepted and saluted by people.
That's what a good choice is all about. PErsonnally, I lean moretoward the second. As far as we are, the story is pointing toward that choice.
Her mindset will stay the same (I want freedom and being accepted) but it would not be in the same situation.
Remember (i'm anticipating your next question) her dream will stays the same, in Wano, she will still have adventures and freedom, it will just be different that what she thought.
I think the change in Yamato's mindset will be similar to the impact Luffy had on Katakuri. It will not directely impact the story right now, but it might become very significant later with the fall of the two emperors and the great war. This is hypothesis territory so I can't go too far.
you are the only one not dismissing my arguments with laugher, when the others will do the same, I might change my mind.
Of course, back stories have multiple purpose. But you have to understand that the purpose of the backstory of Oden or Kyros or Law is not the same as the purpose of the backstory of Chopper or Nami. The end result is not the same. backstories are just tools. SOmetimes they are used to add lore, sometimes to explain a situation, sometimes to give us elements important to understand a character, sometimes they are also here just to hype up the entrance of a character (999/1000 for example) .. there are many usages for the backstories.
No. Check Truby's "anatomy of the story" or even "Story" by mc Kee, and go to the section of the antagonist. You will see that the antagonist is the one character that will challenge the most the protagonist on his values.
The main villains (Arlong / Crocodile / Moria / Enel etc..) are NOT ALL that. At least for thestrawhat in question (Brook for Moria, Krieg for sanji etc.) BUT.. they are ALL the antagonist of the character of Luffy
If ARlong was indeed connected to Nami, Krieg was NOT connected to sanji, Gin was. For a pure value standpoint.
If Crocodile was indeed connected to Vivi, Moria was NOT connected to brook, Ryuma was.
It's all about the values put on the battlefield.. Sometime (in the case of Brook for example) this is not the strawhat that will deal with the antagonist, but another. This doesn't change the fact that Brook was deeply challenged mentally by Ryuma. It was a fight against himself mostly.
There is a big difference between the antagonists of the strawhats and the antagonist of Luffy, because let's not forget that Luffy is still the main charater.
Carrot IS an outcast because she is first a mink. Like Jinbe as a fishman is an outcast, Carrot as a mink is part of a outcasted tribe. So as a strawhat member, Carrot would therefore be "the mink girl" (in fact you can see that during chapter 888, the opposite look-out calls Carrot "the mink girl in the ennemy crew".
Also there is that meta thing about the rabbits on boat and I'm 100% that Oda knows about it.
Why not ?
:queenhear:
A fast change yes, like being suddenly afraid of the sea why not.. (it would have made sence at the time) but not a radical switch of personnality for no reason, the change has to be logical. Carrot wanting to get back to zou would have made sence just after Pedro's death, but Oda was clear that this death didn't affect Carrot's enjoyement for the world in anyway.. he even managed to increase it.:
A change from that point to "I'm going back to Zou" now, would make no sence OR, would be a false flag and a subversion dialogue
Ex:
Well I dot not agree, I think for that to be cleared, we would need a third traduction. Either way, the point of this match wasnot to beat Perospero, but to be defeated so it doesn't not matter too much. If carrot were to encounter Perospero again, it would be a clear win, I could bet my house on that. That's would be logical.
lol I know how change works
i also explained that change might happen rapidely BUT the "counter force" must be proportionnal. For Carrot to be wanting to go back to Zou at this point.. her only post there (as a musketteer) would not be sufficiant Why ? Because that post didn't kept her from leaving the first time. Now, she knows the danger of the sea and she is still excited about it. Plus, the situation hasn't changed on ZOu, noone really need her, and now that the Duke are reunited, her position as Kingbird will be meaningless so she has even less reason to go back. so the "counter force" is not enough. to retake the metaphor of the ship I made on my blog: Carrot is crashing directely toward the planet "i'm gonna take the sea with my new friends" and there is nothing at this point that can stop her from a character standpoint.
About her mindset, in fact I don't know. i'm hesitant. Either she will have a change of mindset in Wano and she will go with the strawhats with a strong mindset (she would need to be brieffed about the dawn or something about the mink for that)
or..
Her mindset will not change during Wano. She will keep her naive side and she will stowaway again for the same reasons than before, only to get slapped later on by someone or a situation (and THEN she will change her mindset to be less naive about the world)
The thing is that we don't know yet in what stage Carrot is in.
She could be near the stage of acceptation where she understand the danger and will be faced with a last choice: to stay or to leave
Or she is still the second act of her character development being : making more and more mistakes until that mistakes hurt someone she loves
I'm personnally leaning toward the second, mostly because it's the most interesting one. But in both case, it would still end up in a choice to leave with the strawhat. That's the whole point of One Piece. Carrot represent a "new Luffy" for the new readers, someone with a strong sence of adventure. Making her go back to Zou for no reason would make no sence and would go against the principles of the story.
To go back, Carrot would need to be litterally at the same point of Vivi. And even then remember how close it was ? The only thing that could kept Carrot from leaving Zou is if we suddenly discover that she is the "futur of the mink", "the heir to the Mink throne" or something with that much responsibilities.. and even that.. Carrot is just not the character fit to take such responsibilities.. like she is constructed now.. she would be like "nope, I don't want that, see ya" lmao
She is just 15 !! reponsibilities is not what she will need to understand.. yet. Carrot needs to learn, but the only way she can really learn is through fire, that's how all the character did that. She does not need a training, she just needs to grow a little.
uh no. Carrot is far from rock bottom, she could also hurt someone she loves because of her naivety, this would actually be very good storytelling...and that would be something to see. That could indeed make people dislike her, (for bad reasons) but remember that Oda follows his characters first.. even if what they do might choc the audience. Remember Sanji and his choice to call for help to Robin ? People HATED that. still, not only it was the best choice, but it was necessary to make sanji grow.. and how boi did he grew.. and people finally accepted that.
Every story leads to a change of mindset. It doesn't mean that the mindset will be completely different. Sometime (in flat character arcs mostly) the mindset of the character is not changed too much : it get's strongered(?). but in most story, the mindset must change.. yamato is not heading toward something similar, everything points to a complete 180°
Its not about being right, or wrong. It's about being faced with a choice at the end of a character arc. You know.. Yamato could very well be invited to the crew by Luffy (it would be strange if we look at the narration, but possible) but this would only put her in front of a choice:
Do I go and abandon Wano and Momo but live the life on sea
Or
Do I abandon my wish to go at sea, but I stay to help Momo and this way.. i'm finally accepted and saluted by people.
That's what a good choice is all about. PErsonnally, I lean moretoward the second. As far as we are, the story is pointing toward that choice.
Her mindset will stay the same (I want freedom and being accepted) but it would not be in the same situation.
Remember (i'm anticipating your next question) her dream will stays the same, in Wano, she will still have adventures and freedom, it will just be different that what she thought.
I think the change in Yamato's mindset will be similar to the impact Luffy had on Katakuri. It will not directely impact the story right now, but it might become very significant later with the fall of the two emperors and the great war. This is hypothesis territory so I can't go too far.
you are the only one not dismissing my arguments with laugher, when the others will do the same, I might change my mind.
Of course, back stories have multiple purpose. But you have to understand that the purpose of the backstory of Oden or Kyros or Law is not the same as the purpose of the backstory of Chopper or Nami. The end result is not the same. backstories are just tools. SOmetimes they are used to add lore, sometimes to explain a situation, sometimes to give us elements important to understand a character, sometimes they are also here just to hype up the entrance of a character (999/1000 for example) .. there are many usages for the backstories.
No. Check Truby's "anatomy of the story" or even "Story" by mc Kee, and go to the section of the antagonist. You will see that the antagonist is the one character that will challenge the most the protagonist on his values.
The main villains (Arlong / Crocodile / Moria / Enel etc..) are NOT ALL that. At least for thestrawhat in question (Brook for Moria, Krieg for sanji etc.) BUT.. they are ALL the antagonist of the character of Luffy
If ARlong was indeed connected to Nami, Krieg was NOT connected to sanji, Gin was. For a pure value standpoint.
If Crocodile was indeed connected to Vivi, Moria was NOT connected to brook, Ryuma was.
It's all about the values put on the battlefield.. Sometime (in the case of Brook for example) this is not the strawhat that will deal with the antagonist, but another. This doesn't change the fact that Brook was deeply challenged mentally by Ryuma. It was a fight against himself mostly.
There is a big difference between the antagonists of the strawhats and the antagonist of Luffy, because let's not forget that Luffy is still the main charater.
Carrot IS an outcast because she is first a mink. Like Jinbe as a fishman is an outcast, Carrot as a mink is part of a outcasted tribe. So as a strawhat member, Carrot would therefore be "the mink girl" (in fact you can see that during chapter 888, the opposite look-out calls Carrot "the mink girl in the ennemy crew".
Also there is that meta thing about the rabbits on boat and I'm 100% that Oda knows about it.
Post automatically merged:
Why not ?
Post automatically merged:
:queenhear:
An antagonist is one who opposes the protagonist. It's that simple.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antagonist
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/antagonist
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/antagonist
Here's three different dictionaries proving it.
Even if your definition was accurate, I also said you could phrase it as "each strawhat is deeply connected to the villain of the arc where they join". That's a hard and fast rule. It's been the case with every strawhat. Why is Carrot an exception?
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