General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
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it's really telling when the Carrot fans spent more time trying to make the case of why Yamato will stay by Momo's side in Wano and won't join the crew, rather than making arguments for why Carrot will join the crew.
Can't say I'm surprised though, Carrot fans also gave me a million reasons why Jinbe was gonna die on WCI.
Focusing so much on other characters doesn't make the case for Carrot any stronger, it just exposes how weak of a candidate she was all along from the very beginning and still is to this very day.
When has Oda ever swapped out a better Straw Hat candidate for a lesser one? It's never happened before.
The only argument that Carrot fans are still grasping on to with their last breaths is that Yamato will stay with Momo, when for the entire time of her existence in Wano Yamato has been saying the exact opposite, that she will join Luffy's crew.
My question is for exactly what reason will Oda do a 180 just for Yamato to not join the crew at this point, what is payoff of her not joining after so much buildup?
The Carrot fans keep telling me that Oda is gonna subvert expectations by having Yamato not join the crew, when he already did that by having Carrot tag along with the crew since Zou, never having her stating outright or even hinting that she wants to join the crew , leaving Carrot behind by the wayside in the Wano Arc and adding Yamato right in the middle of the Wano war.
The outcome of Yamato being the red herring for Carrot never made any sense from the beginning, as Carrot was introduced first before Yamato. Not to mention the fact that this red herring has a pretty piss poor payoff with just Carrot joining, when fans already got to know her for 100 chapters already and Oda refusing to do anything with Carrot in the Wano arc.
Can't say I'm surprised though, Carrot fans also gave me a million reasons why Jinbe was gonna die on WCI.
Focusing so much on other characters doesn't make the case for Carrot any stronger, it just exposes how weak of a candidate she was all along from the very beginning and still is to this very day.
When has Oda ever swapped out a better Straw Hat candidate for a lesser one? It's never happened before.
The only argument that Carrot fans are still grasping on to with their last breaths is that Yamato will stay with Momo, when for the entire time of her existence in Wano Yamato has been saying the exact opposite, that she will join Luffy's crew.
My question is for exactly what reason will Oda do a 180 just for Yamato to not join the crew at this point, what is payoff of her not joining after so much buildup?
The Carrot fans keep telling me that Oda is gonna subvert expectations by having Yamato not join the crew, when he already did that by having Carrot tag along with the crew since Zou, never having her stating outright or even hinting that she wants to join the crew , leaving Carrot behind by the wayside in the Wano Arc and adding Yamato right in the middle of the Wano war.
The outcome of Yamato being the red herring for Carrot never made any sense from the beginning, as Carrot was introduced first before Yamato. Not to mention the fact that this red herring has a pretty piss poor payoff with just Carrot joining, when fans already got to know her for 100 chapters already and Oda refusing to do anything with Carrot in the Wano arc.
I stated generally. Nothing is absolute. I think it will happen. I stated the two eldest Strawhats will get additional flashbacks with childhood history. What is the root of Brook being a musician or Jinbe a Fish-Man Karate Master? These questions Oda can answer fleshing out their characters.
We received answers about Zoro's Wano connection with swordmanship and Sanji's Germa roots with cooking in back to back arcs. Exploring Usopp's childhood in Elbaf with bravery or Franky's childhood in Vegapunk arc with his pirate parents would be most welcome for me as a fan.
What do you have that you need? Yamato's past is lacking. No defined ship role. An additional CoC user is a questionable add. Stop acting like you can't be wrong.
Who has Luffy invited besides his crewmates and Vivi?
Gaimon
Crocus
Dr. Kureha
Iceburg
Tree Zombie
Unicorn Zombie
"Leopard" Centaur
The list isn't that long. Luffy's selection process from the author's reasoning is undefined. Three were asked to fill a ship role. Others for unique reasons.
Momonosuke Kozuki is Oden' Kozuki's successor. Shinobu alluded Momo resembles his father.
Yamato's freedom doesn't mean Luffy wants Yamato as a crewmate. If Yamato asks I doubt Luffy would refuse but as I stated it's biting on Robin's self invitation.
We received answers about Zoro's Wano connection with swordmanship and Sanji's Germa roots with cooking in back to back arcs. Exploring Usopp's childhood in Elbaf with bravery or Franky's childhood in Vegapunk arc with his pirate parents would be most welcome for me as a fan.
What do you have that you need? Yamato's past is lacking. No defined ship role. An additional CoC user is a questionable add. Stop acting like you can't be wrong.
Who has Luffy invited besides his crewmates and Vivi?
Gaimon
Crocus
Dr. Kureha
Iceburg
Tree Zombie
Unicorn Zombie
"Leopard" Centaur
The list isn't that long. Luffy's selection process from the author's reasoning is undefined. Three were asked to fill a ship role. Others for unique reasons.
Momonosuke Kozuki is Oden' Kozuki's successor. Shinobu alluded Momo resembles his father.
Yamato's freedom doesn't mean Luffy wants Yamato as a crewmate. If Yamato asks I doubt Luffy would refuse but as I stated it's biting on Robin's self invitation.
Why are you moving the goalpost to argue Oda's perspective? You asked why Luffy himself would want her on the crew and I laid out how easy it is for anyone to qualify. Half of the crew was invited before Luffy even knew what their roles were.
Just because he looks like Oden doesn't mean he's his successor. The story has been beating to death how Momo is not like him and how he's finding his own way to step out of his shadow. You then look at Yamato paralleling Oden from her backstory to her passion of adventure. Also, I noticed you glossed over my Ace point.
Luffy doesn't want her as a crewmate but he wouldn't refuse if she asked?
Just because he looks like Oden doesn't mean he's his successor. The story has been beating to death how Momo is not like him and how he's finding his own way to step out of his shadow. You then look at Yamato paralleling Oden from her backstory to her passion of adventure. Also, I noticed you glossed over my Ace point.
Luffy doesn't want her as a crewmate but he wouldn't refuse if she asked?
Where you see arguments, I see nitpicky gatekeeping and fanmade rules. None of this has any basis in the story. I can't understand how you think the fact that you want another Jinbei flashback makes Yamato unable to join the crew. At least Dizzy and even C4N's points would have mattered if they were actually supported by the manga. These are just complete non-issues.
Why are you moving the goalpost to argue Oda's perspective? You asked why Luffy himself would want her on the crew and I laid out how easy it is for anyone to qualify. Half of the crew was invited before Luffy even knew what their roles were.
Just because he looks like Oden doesn't mean he's his successor. The story has been beating to death how Momo is not like him and how he's finding his own way to step out of his shadow. You then look at Yamato paralleling Oden from her backstory to her passion of adventure. Also, I noticed you glossed over my Ace point.
Luffy doesn't want her as a crewmate but he wouldn't refuse if she asked?
Just because he looks like Oden doesn't mean he's his successor. The story has been beating to death how Momo is not like him and how he's finding his own way to step out of his shadow. You then look at Yamato paralleling Oden from her backstory to her passion of adventure. Also, I noticed you glossed over my Ace point.
Luffy doesn't want her as a crewmate but he wouldn't refuse if she asked?
Luffy doesn't seem interested in Yamato. Oda has not put Luffy in a situation to observe Yamato for a defining moment for an invitation decision. They fought briefly, talked about Oden's Log book, split off, met shortly against Kaido, then split off again. At least let Luffy see Yamato's transformations. Luffy hasn't even seen a Mink turn Sulong. Why the avoidance by Oda?
How long does it generally take for Luffy to invite someone to be in his crew? What are Luffy's reasons to ask?
- Luffy was already contemplating inviting Zoro before they met based on Coby's scary description of Zoro. Made up his mind after seeing Zoro eat that dirtied sweet rice ball.
- Zoro approved of Nami's navigation skills before they met. Luffy invited Nami as soon as Luffy knew Nami was a navigator. Luffy took back the invitation when he thought she was bad. Reinvited when he realized she was not bad. Helps Nami after she runs away.
- Told Usopp to hop on Merry when they were leaving. I believe once Luffy knew Usopp was Yasopp's son that Usopp would be invited, maybe already a crewmate in Luffy's mind hence why it wasn't a formal invitation. Luffy accepts Usopp's apology to rejoin.
- Invited Sanji once Luffy saw Sanji was a good cook. Luffy refused Sanji's refusal. Rescues Sanji from Big Mom after Sanji ran away.
- Invited Chopper based off Chopper's 7 transformations. Nami invited Chopper because Chopper is a doctor. Luffy refused Chopper's refusal.
- Robin self invited herself because Luffy rescued a suicidal Robin were Robin's previous acts let Luffy determine Robin was not a bad person. Robin's ship role was hinted at the end of Alabasta and expanded once on board the Merry. Helps Robin realize she wants to live and rescues her from the World Government after she runs away.
- Franky has similarities to Luffy's shipwright drawing before Water 7. Invited Franky because the Franky Family wanted Franky to leave Water 7 because of Franky's bounty, needed a shipwright, and Luffy was pleased shipwright Franky built their new ship Sunny. Franky's dream also requires Franky to travel on his dream ship.
- Luffy almost immediately invited Brook on the spot. Brook had multiple attributes and connections foreshadowed throughout the series: musician, Laboon, and afro that Luffy summarizes. After accepting then declining, Brook reaccepts after his shadow was saved.
- Introduced in Arlong Arc. In Impel Down and Marineford, Luffy and Jinbe were together trying to rescue Ace. Afterwards, Jinbe helped Luffy cope with the loss of Ace. Later, the Strawhats and Jinbe save Fishman Island from Hody Jones where Luffy invites Jinbe during a memorable blood transfusion. After initially declining, Jinbe officially joins the Strawhats in front of Big Mom which Luffy is joyful about. It just so happens Jinbe is a fantastic helmsman which said position was introduced with Burgess back in Jaya.
And the other invitees:
- Gaimon has a shrub afro. An Oda favorite.
- Crocus is a doctor.
- Dr. Kureha is a doctor.
- Vivi was a red herring for Robin.
- Iceberg is a shipwright.
- Old Tree Guy Zombie and Unicorn Zombie because ...? It never was explored.
- Kin'emon's legs for Luffy to be a centaur.
- Leopard Centaur because...centaur.
I ask again, what reason does Luffy want Yamato on the crew? From past experiences, it would be because Luffy sees Yamato as a good person. Well that's not a unique enough reason as Luffy knows plenty of good people that were not invited. Same principle with Yamato's strength. But since Yamato is a good strong person, Luffy may accept Yamato as a guest but another self invitation as a crewmate without similar depth like Robin's setup seems unlikely.
And did you just write future shogun Momo is not the successor of Oden, Momo's father and someone who was supposed to be shogun, but some random stan in Yamato is Oden's successor?
But that's not Luffy's (King of the Pirates) crew though...besides Whitebeard stated too many CoC users on a crew doesn't work per experience. The question is were they active CoC users before invited by Xebec or awakened as crewmates? IMO, it seems to be the former.
I could see Oda having some of the current crewmates awaken their CoC haki like Nami (Money Queen, Weather Queen, Queen of Witches), Usopp (Sniper King, God Usopp), or Sanji (Mr. Prince, Cook King) but inviting a CoC user right away is questionable as Zoro (King of Hell) just learned to use CoC with Enma. The readers have seen that growth from Zoro. Yamato would be a CoC throw-in. What is Yamato conquering? What would be a potential title?
Your reasoning for thinking Yamato will be invited is fanmade rules. It's all an analysis of our observations.
Going by past invitations, Yamato lacks foreshadowing, a known needed ship role, or connections.
I mentioned Usopp, Franky, Brook, and Jinbe because that part of their childhood can be explored, would be something fans would want to know, and gives depth to their characters. If Yamato has more to their character besides copying a character that didn't even acknowledge their existence or copying moves from the father they hate, then it would be nice to see but not sure it's something Oda needs to explore for Yamato as a crewmate. That resolution could be explored with potential partner Momo as they are linked with similarities.
Not really. The narrative is Yamato wants to ride Luffy's ship to explore the seas and be free. That dream would be complete once they sail outside of Wano. Not a likely scenario. So Yamato needs a more defined end goal. Maybe Oda's holding it for some grand reveal but I doubt it especially how Yamato blurts out whatever with no filter.
But we shall see. Just be ready to have your copium if Yamato doesn't join.
It's not about easy but Luffy's reasoning which is Oda's reasoning.
Luffy doesn't seem interested in Yamato. Oda has not put Luffy in a situation to observe Yamato for a defining moment for an invitation decision. They fought briefly, talked about Oden's Log book, split off, met shortly against Kaido, then split off again. At least let Luffy see Yamato's transformations. Luffy hasn't even seen a Mink turn Sulong. Why the avoidance by Oda?
How long does it generally take for Luffy to invite someone to be in his crew? What are Luffy's reasons to ask?
And the other invitees:
I ask again, what reason does Luffy want Yamato on the crew? From past experiences, it would be because Luffy sees Yamato as a good person. Well that's not a unique enough reason as Luffy knows plenty of good people that were not invited. Same principle with Yamato's strength. But since Yamato is a good strong person, Luffy may accept Yamato as a guest but another self invitation as a crewmate without similar depth like Robin's setup seems unlikely.
And did you just write future shogun Momo is not the successor of Oden, Momo's father and someone who was supposed to be shogun, but some random stan in Yamato is Oden's successor?
But that's not Luffy's (King of the Pirates) crew though...besides Whitebeard stated too many CoC users on a crew doesn't work per experience. The question is were they active CoC users before invited by Xebec or awakened as crewmates? IMO, it seems to be the former.
I could see Oda having some of the current crewmates awaken their CoC haki like Nami (Money Queen, Weather Queen, Queen of Witches), Usopp (Sniper King, God Usopp), or Sanji (Mr. Prince, Cook King) but inviting a CoC user right away is questionable as Zoro (King of Hell) just learned to use CoC with Enma. The readers have seen that growth from Zoro. Yamato would be a CoC throw-in. What is Yamato conquering? What would be a potential title?
Your reasoning for thinking Yamato will be invited is fanmade rules. It's all an analysis of our observations.
Going by past invitations, Yamato lacks foreshadowing, a known needed ship role, or connections.
I mentioned Usopp, Franky, Brook, and Jinbe because that part of their childhood can be explored, would be something fans would want to know, and gives depth to their characters. If Yamato has more to their character besides copying a character that didn't even acknowledge their existence or copying moves from the father they hate, then it would be nice to see but not sure it's something Oda needs to explore for Yamato as a crewmate. That resolution could be explored with potential partner Momo as they are linked with similarities.
Not really. The narrative is Yamato wants to ride Luffy's ship to explore the seas and be free. That dream would be complete once they sail outside of Wano. Not a likely scenario. So Yamato needs a more defined end goal. Maybe Oda's holding it for some grand reveal but I doubt it especially how Yamato blurts out whatever with no filter.
But we shall see. Just be ready to have your copium if Yamato doesn't join.
Luffy doesn't seem interested in Yamato. Oda has not put Luffy in a situation to observe Yamato for a defining moment for an invitation decision. They fought briefly, talked about Oden's Log book, split off, met shortly against Kaido, then split off again. At least let Luffy see Yamato's transformations. Luffy hasn't even seen a Mink turn Sulong. Why the avoidance by Oda?
How long does it generally take for Luffy to invite someone to be in his crew? What are Luffy's reasons to ask?
- Luffy was already contemplating inviting Zoro before they met based on Coby's scary description of Zoro. Made up his mind after seeing Zoro eat that dirtied sweet rice ball.
- Zoro approved of Nami's navigation skills before they met. Luffy invited Nami as soon as Luffy knew Nami was a navigator. Luffy took back the invitation when he thought she was bad. Reinvited when he realized she was not bad. Helps Nami after she runs away.
- Told Usopp to hop on Merry when they were leaving. I believe once Luffy knew Usopp was Yasopp's son that Usopp would be invited, maybe already a crewmate in Luffy's mind hence why it wasn't a formal invitation. Luffy accepts Usopp's apology to rejoin.
- Invited Sanji once Luffy saw Sanji was a good cook. Luffy refused Sanji's refusal. Rescues Sanji from Big Mom after Sanji ran away.
- Invited Chopper based off Chopper's 7 transformations. Nami invited Chopper because Chopper is a doctor. Luffy refused Chopper's refusal.
- Robin self invited herself because Luffy rescued a suicidal Robin were Robin's previous acts let Luffy determine Robin was not a bad person. Robin's ship role was hinted at the end of Alabasta and expanded once on board the Merry. Helps Robin realize she wants to live and rescues her from the World Government after she runs away.
- Franky has similarities to Luffy's shipwright drawing before Water 7. Invited Franky because the Franky Family wanted Franky to leave Water 7 because of Franky's bounty, needed a shipwright, and Luffy was pleased shipwright Franky built their new ship Sunny. Franky's dream also requires Franky to travel on his dream ship.
- Luffy almost immediately invited Brook on the spot. Brook had multiple attributes and connections foreshadowed throughout the series: musician, Laboon, and afro that Luffy summarizes. After accepting then declining, Brook reaccepts after his shadow was saved.
- Introduced in Arlong Arc. In Impel Down and Marineford, Luffy and Jinbe were together trying to rescue Ace. Afterwards, Jinbe helped Luffy cope with the loss of Ace. Later, the Strawhats and Jinbe save Fishman Island from Hody Jones where Luffy invites Jinbe during a memorable blood transfusion. After initially declining, Jinbe officially joins the Strawhats in front of Big Mom which Luffy is joyful about. It just so happens Jinbe is a fantastic helmsman which said position was introduced with Burgess back in Jaya.
And the other invitees:
- Gaimon has a shrub afro. An Oda favorite.
- Crocus is a doctor.
- Dr. Kureha is a doctor.
- Vivi was a red herring for Robin.
- Iceberg is a shipwright.
- Old Tree Guy Zombie and Unicorn Zombie because ...? It never was explored.
- Kin'emon's legs for Luffy to be a centaur.
- Leopard Centaur because...centaur.
I ask again, what reason does Luffy want Yamato on the crew? From past experiences, it would be because Luffy sees Yamato as a good person. Well that's not a unique enough reason as Luffy knows plenty of good people that were not invited. Same principle with Yamato's strength. But since Yamato is a good strong person, Luffy may accept Yamato as a guest but another self invitation as a crewmate without similar depth like Robin's setup seems unlikely.
And did you just write future shogun Momo is not the successor of Oden, Momo's father and someone who was supposed to be shogun, but some random stan in Yamato is Oden's successor?
But that's not Luffy's (King of the Pirates) crew though...besides Whitebeard stated too many CoC users on a crew doesn't work per experience. The question is were they active CoC users before invited by Xebec or awakened as crewmates? IMO, it seems to be the former.
I could see Oda having some of the current crewmates awaken their CoC haki like Nami (Money Queen, Weather Queen, Queen of Witches), Usopp (Sniper King, God Usopp), or Sanji (Mr. Prince, Cook King) but inviting a CoC user right away is questionable as Zoro (King of Hell) just learned to use CoC with Enma. The readers have seen that growth from Zoro. Yamato would be a CoC throw-in. What is Yamato conquering? What would be a potential title?
Your reasoning for thinking Yamato will be invited is fanmade rules. It's all an analysis of our observations.
Going by past invitations, Yamato lacks foreshadowing, a known needed ship role, or connections.
I mentioned Usopp, Franky, Brook, and Jinbe because that part of their childhood can be explored, would be something fans would want to know, and gives depth to their characters. If Yamato has more to their character besides copying a character that didn't even acknowledge their existence or copying moves from the father they hate, then it would be nice to see but not sure it's something Oda needs to explore for Yamato as a crewmate. That resolution could be explored with potential partner Momo as they are linked with similarities.
Not really. The narrative is Yamato wants to ride Luffy's ship to explore the seas and be free. That dream would be complete once they sail outside of Wano. Not a likely scenario. So Yamato needs a more defined end goal. Maybe Oda's holding it for some grand reveal but I doubt it especially how Yamato blurts out whatever with no filter.
But we shall see. Just be ready to have your copium if Yamato doesn't join.
From the chapter Kaido was revealed to have a kid, Yamato was setup to join. Jinbe's toast was delayed for the party and in the same chapter, Kaido mentions that his kid needs to show up or she'll miss it. Ace promised over sake to come back for her and Luffy has been here resolving all the plot threads he couldn't finish. The 2 chapters of the flashback is even called "The Sake I Brewed to Drink With You, Straw Hat Luffy" when combined and the Jinbe toast had them holding sake. This is all very apparent setup for her to be at the party and share the sake toast with the SHs, which only happens with new members.
If you want to nitpick about setup in previous arcs (which I feel like you are), Oda revealed in the last OP magazine that he intentionally paralleled Ace's dialogue about the vivre cards in Alabasta with Yamato in the flashback so that Luffy was indirectly hearing her words to meet her. This combined with the fact that Ace went on a spill about looking forward to Luffy shows that Oda is placing an importance on their meeting beyond just Yamato knowing him already.
So you insist on trends/patterns but demand Yamato has something unique. You listed people Luffy invited for the most comedic reasons but argue Yamato wouldn't even be on his radar. Sounds like you're just doing some nitpicky gatekeeping.
It literally takes 2 seconds to compare Yamato vs Oden and Momo vs Oden and figure that out. Momo has been crying about not being like his father at all this entire arc and you think he's the next Oden in that narrative? When the whole parallel is that Yamato is taking after Oden's image while Momo is taking after Kaido's image?
Whitebeard had 3 coc users on his crew. Roger had 4 users (3 if you don't count Shanks) at the same time. WB very clearly was not talking about haki. This argument is bad.
Not only is none of this hinted at whatsoever or needed, Yamato could get the same treatment since there's still a lot we don't know in her childhood.
Her dream is to go on an adventure of a lifetime like Oden and that's not something she can get on any ship or the moment she gets on one.
Be ready for your copium when Oda takes the obvious route he made with the most blatant setup
If you want to nitpick about setup in previous arcs (which I feel like you are), Oda revealed in the last OP magazine that he intentionally paralleled Ace's dialogue about the vivre cards in Alabasta with Yamato in the flashback so that Luffy was indirectly hearing her words to meet her. This combined with the fact that Ace went on a spill about looking forward to Luffy shows that Oda is placing an importance on their meeting beyond just Yamato knowing him already.
So you insist on trends/patterns but demand Yamato has something unique. You listed people Luffy invited for the most comedic reasons but argue Yamato wouldn't even be on his radar. Sounds like you're just doing some nitpicky gatekeeping.
It literally takes 2 seconds to compare Yamato vs Oden and Momo vs Oden and figure that out. Momo has been crying about not being like his father at all this entire arc and you think he's the next Oden in that narrative? When the whole parallel is that Yamato is taking after Oden's image while Momo is taking after Kaido's image?
Whitebeard had 3 coc users on his crew. Roger had 4 users (3 if you don't count Shanks) at the same time. WB very clearly was not talking about haki. This argument is bad.
Not only is none of this hinted at whatsoever or needed, Yamato could get the same treatment since there's still a lot we don't know in her childhood.
Her dream is to go on an adventure of a lifetime like Oden and that's not something she can get on any ship or the moment she gets on one.
Be ready for your copium when Oda takes the obvious route he made with the most blatant setup
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