Current Events Oda poor writing to portray Kid and Law the "Victory"!! Did they really beat Big Mom? Analyze!
Hello everyone, Chapter 1040 did come out today and we got saw the end of the fight between Kid and Law vs BM with the Victory Textbox:
Law and Kid took the victory, their crewmembers even call it over a defeat of BM:
Now to make it clear, Im not saying anything to Kid and ofc Mvp Law performance, they put anything what they had and really show good feats.
I don´t anything against them winning against BM, in fact I was even for a victory for Kid and Law but not with this outcome!!
They didn´t deserve such a false and bullshit victory claim, all three deserve a far better fight without one fraction been nerfed...
No one would criticize Oda for letting BM lose after she show anything in the battle(Like awakening+adv Co) vs Kid and Law who also show more then "just" awakening.
What Oda did with Kid was the most brutal thing which he done since ever(next to what he did to Sanji pre Wano).
Hint his CoC, but never show it, made him a rival of Luffy but totally fail to improve him, alone the fact that his own fans(Kid fans) are disappointed how Oda threat him but hype Law kinda proof it out.
Overall we have here 3 characters who never had any buisness and should fight in Wano.
In fact Law plan and goal was Kaido, Kid goal was Kaido, the same one who almost kill him, took his crew in prison, give Killer a smile df and used him as murder and toyplay for Orochi, Kid goal was always Kaido, like we have legit many panels who support this claim.
And what happen if 3 characters who not have any buisness to each other, fight each other?
Lacks of tension, lacks of buildup and development of characters,beating BM only gains more bounty and fame, but for own develpment their is no point.
Beating BM doesn´t give Kid his revenge which he had as goal against Kaido, for Law the same, his goal was always Kaido.
And BM even thought getting defeated, will play a role in elbaf when her "true" plot play out against Luffy who was already build up of Oda since fishmen island.
The fight feels like a filler battle, only made to give Kid and Law a huge boost in bounty for later.
In fact they "didn´t defeat Big mom on their own"...
Which leads to the another point of the this battle.
Kid and Law fought a BM who not just used awakening, no she didn´t even used her adv CoC who had his showcase against fucking Pageone:
How a Yonkou used such a power against Pageone but not Kid and Law?
Why Oda even show this against Pageone if he not used it later, what is the point of this?
People say,this would give Bm enough firepower, but she legit one shot Pageone, a ancient zoan in similar durability as Ulti.
Ulti could stand up after a combo attack of Hera,Napoleon and Prometheus, same fused power who BM used as last power attack against Kid and Law.
So if Adv CoC have enough power to put all down Pageone, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law?
The attack is above G3, overall base punches of BM are pretty op, as we see against Capone Big father.
Adv CoC could play a huge factor, Oda could highlight it to also give Kid adv CoC.
Also BM didn´t showed up awakening, she has her df since 60years ago.
Yet one top tier who can do so much with her df, didn´t used awakening in this battle.
Neither awakening or adv CoC was a case Kid and Law.
Why I mentioned these powers?
Well im sure(would even bet against everyone here) and you can bet your ass, that Oda going to reveal these powers later!
Watch out when she face Luffy in Elbaf and used these powers,people will ask the question themselve again, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law,they will
realize how much Oda nerfed her in Wano which is my point. This will underwhelmed Kid and Law victory(who is already a nonsense in my eyes) even more and will show people how much a fillerfight the battle was against Kid and Law.
That is overall Oda problem, he didn´t care for the plotholes which he creat with entering BM, wanokuni.
In fact that Oda didn´t even know himself what he really plan with BM, im pretty sure Oda first plan was a end fight with Luffy,Kid and Law vs Kaido, but he change it since he had BM here. The worst case is, rather to fight a all out Yonkou, he disrespect Kid and Law, giving them a ass writing victory which they didn´t deserve.
They deserve the same as Luffy(after all the build up which he made until we reach this point), a hell all out battle against awakened Kaido with adv CoC.
Which lead us to the another point, the "victory" of Kid and Law.
Here this is BM, hit by Kid strongest attack:
Neither Law or Kid attack bring even BM to her limits, what Kid just do her is no difference as what Tien did against Cell:
The attack didn´t really do much to BM, it just force her out, Tien who was far far weaker then Cell did the same, pull him back again and again.
Which shows that neither Law or Kid had enough power to beat her, all what they could was the put her away from the battlefield, kinda similar what Jinbe and Robin did in the begin of the raid.
Im not saying that it is not impressiv what Kid and Law did, but in the end and everyone know it, all what they did was the throw BM out.
Big mom was still fresh and could easily fight back while this is Kid and Law right after they throw her out.
Big Mom:
And here Kid and Law:
Law and Kid reached their limits, Bm still could fight, still could used her power.
Oda never gives us reader the feeling that Bm was at her limit, no he even show her in her last moments in the chapter with rage and epic speech for a later comeback.
This kinda show how underwhelming the victory is for Kid and Law.
I mean it is not even their last attack who give them "their victory", it is a fucking nuke bomb who seems be the case for Big mom lose"(yeah as a shiit bomb knocking her out, Idk what Oda smoke her but he is for sure not let us believe that a bomb going to beat Big mom).
BM took one bomb pretty easily, then she got a another bomb, most like in combo with Kanjuro last fire spirit skill.
First bomb:
Second bomb:
The first bomb just only give her a cough, probably not hurt her much, im pretty sure the second one also not knock her out.
But that is not now the point, the point is that Law and Kid got the victory, how Oda count this as victory?
For throwing her away count already as victory? Or did the narative really implied that she was out after the bomb?
In case the first thing wouldn´t be even that bad, a victory over throwing her away is not just bad, but as full defeat? Simple not.
The bomb could just fall in front of Law and Kid, they could be done too.
Would then Oda claim it as victory of BM?
My point is, the bomb clearly took the victory claim for Kid and Law.
We as reader feeling her like neither Law or Kid attack couldn´t do much to BM, if the bomb scene didn´t happen, she just would fall down and perhaps comeback pretty fast later. In case Oda should made it clear that the victory only point of out that Law and Kid just took the W via throwing her out.
Another point is, via the bomb scene, Oda implied that neither Kid and Law been enough, he extra need to add the bomb power to end up the fight.
I read many post of Kid and Law fans who kinda feels of getting screwed by Oda all over again.
Kid and Law victory feels underwhelming, even thought BM was nerfed, they couldn´t beat her own their own.
At top as I said, if she comeback in elbaf and face Luffy, showing far stronger attacks, this will lead to the point where everyone realize how much she got nerfed her and still Kid and Law couldn´t take her down.
As someone who kinda cares for powerscaling, I can´t wait to see the outcome of Luffy vs Kaido.
After we see how both Kid and Law been not enough to beat non awakened+non adv CoC BM, I can´t imagine for Luffy beating Kaido alone.
I hope Oda not mess up the end fight, @dizzy2341 bring up a good idea with a Strawhats vs Kaido fight, with I would prefer more then getting Luffy alone vs Kaido.
However the victory is pretty cheap and I see lot of Kid and Law fans are disappointed out the outcome.
I mean are they really happy how the fight turn out? It is neither Law and Kid attack who actually took the defeat over BM.
It is a fucking bomb, the outcome is pretty sad for a fight like this, not worth to call a top tier battle outside of Law insane feats, since Kid and Big mom where awful the fight(Big Mom endurance is still top over top, crazy endurance feats).
Overall we got a pretty lackluster fight with a nonsense defeat who should not call as defeat.
People will realize how bs this fight was when Luffy face off stronger awakened BM in elbaf.
Alone the fact that Bigger Big mom could still come out as "victory" even without awakening and adv coc how massive op the Yonkou are, I expect even a far better feat for Kaido later.
Overall im very disappointed how Oda handle the whole fight.
Kid,Law and Bm deserved a far better fight, a better fight with great tension and not this.
@Buusatan94 amd @dirtyLarry already pointed it pretty good in other threads.
Overall I want to hear other opinions about this:
@MonsterKaido , @Hanzo hattori , @zzShinichi , @mly90 , @Peroroncino , @Buusatan94 , @dirtyLarry , @Kejon , @DarkWitch , @Olimaat , @Jaguark101 , @Charlotte LinLin , @ReggieZoldyck21 , @Lukegranders , @Trafalgar_D_Law , @Law-sama , @Pantheos (sry if I forget other users)
I feel like the only realy fandom with the W coming out of this fight was the Law fandom, otherwise as Kid and Big mom fan myself, im pretty disappointed.
Law and Kid took the victory, their crewmembers even call it over a defeat of BM:
Now to make it clear, Im not saying anything to Kid and ofc Mvp Law performance, they put anything what they had and really show good feats.
I don´t anything against them winning against BM, in fact I was even for a victory for Kid and Law but not with this outcome!!
They didn´t deserve such a false and bullshit victory claim, all three deserve a far better fight without one fraction been nerfed...
No one would criticize Oda for letting BM lose after she show anything in the battle(Like awakening+adv Co) vs Kid and Law who also show more then "just" awakening.
What Oda did with Kid was the most brutal thing which he done since ever(next to what he did to Sanji pre Wano).
Hint his CoC, but never show it, made him a rival of Luffy but totally fail to improve him, alone the fact that his own fans(Kid fans) are disappointed how Oda threat him but hype Law kinda proof it out.
Overall we have here 3 characters who never had any buisness and should fight in Wano.
In fact Law plan and goal was Kaido, Kid goal was Kaido, the same one who almost kill him, took his crew in prison, give Killer a smile df and used him as murder and toyplay for Orochi, Kid goal was always Kaido, like we have legit many panels who support this claim.
And what happen if 3 characters who not have any buisness to each other, fight each other?
Lacks of tension, lacks of buildup and development of characters,beating BM only gains more bounty and fame, but for own develpment their is no point.
Beating BM doesn´t give Kid his revenge which he had as goal against Kaido, for Law the same, his goal was always Kaido.
And BM even thought getting defeated, will play a role in elbaf when her "true" plot play out against Luffy who was already build up of Oda since fishmen island.
The fight feels like a filler battle, only made to give Kid and Law a huge boost in bounty for later.
In fact they "didn´t defeat Big mom on their own"...
Which leads to the another point of the this battle.
Kid and Law fought a BM who not just used awakening, no she didn´t even used her adv CoC who had his showcase against fucking Pageone:
How a Yonkou used such a power against Pageone but not Kid and Law?
Why Oda even show this against Pageone if he not used it later, what is the point of this?
People say,this would give Bm enough firepower, but she legit one shot Pageone, a ancient zoan in similar durability as Ulti.
Ulti could stand up after a combo attack of Hera,Napoleon and Prometheus, same fused power who BM used as last power attack against Kid and Law.
So if Adv CoC have enough power to put all down Pageone, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law?
The attack is above G3, overall base punches of BM are pretty op, as we see against Capone Big father.
Adv CoC could play a huge factor, Oda could highlight it to also give Kid adv CoC.
Also BM didn´t showed up awakening, she has her df since 60years ago.
Yet one top tier who can do so much with her df, didn´t used awakening in this battle.
Neither awakening or adv CoC was a case Kid and Law.
Why I mentioned these powers?
Well im sure(would even bet against everyone here) and you can bet your ass, that Oda going to reveal these powers later!
Watch out when she face Luffy in Elbaf and used these powers,people will ask the question themselve again, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law,they will
realize how much Oda nerfed her in Wano which is my point. This will underwhelmed Kid and Law victory(who is already a nonsense in my eyes) even more and will show people how much a fillerfight the battle was against Kid and Law.
That is overall Oda problem, he didn´t care for the plotholes which he creat with entering BM, wanokuni.
In fact that Oda didn´t even know himself what he really plan with BM, im pretty sure Oda first plan was a end fight with Luffy,Kid and Law vs Kaido, but he change it since he had BM here. The worst case is, rather to fight a all out Yonkou, he disrespect Kid and Law, giving them a ass writing victory which they didn´t deserve.
They deserve the same as Luffy(after all the build up which he made until we reach this point), a hell all out battle against awakened Kaido with adv CoC.
Which lead us to the another point, the "victory" of Kid and Law.
Here this is BM, hit by Kid strongest attack:
Neither Law or Kid attack bring even BM to her limits, what Kid just do her is no difference as what Tien did against Cell:
The attack didn´t really do much to BM, it just force her out, Tien who was far far weaker then Cell did the same, pull him back again and again.
Which shows that neither Law or Kid had enough power to beat her, all what they could was the put her away from the battlefield, kinda similar what Jinbe and Robin did in the begin of the raid.
Im not saying that it is not impressiv what Kid and Law did, but in the end and everyone know it, all what they did was the throw BM out.
Big mom was still fresh and could easily fight back while this is Kid and Law right after they throw her out.
Big Mom:
And here Kid and Law:
Law and Kid reached their limits, Bm still could fight, still could used her power.
Oda never gives us reader the feeling that Bm was at her limit, no he even show her in her last moments in the chapter with rage and epic speech for a later comeback.
This kinda show how underwhelming the victory is for Kid and Law.
I mean it is not even their last attack who give them "their victory", it is a fucking nuke bomb who seems be the case for Big mom lose"(yeah as a shiit bomb knocking her out, Idk what Oda smoke her but he is for sure not let us believe that a bomb going to beat Big mom).
BM took one bomb pretty easily, then she got a another bomb, most like in combo with Kanjuro last fire spirit skill.
First bomb:
Second bomb:
The first bomb just only give her a cough, probably not hurt her much, im pretty sure the second one also not knock her out.
But that is not now the point, the point is that Law and Kid got the victory, how Oda count this as victory?
For throwing her away count already as victory? Or did the narative really implied that she was out after the bomb?
In case the first thing wouldn´t be even that bad, a victory over throwing her away is not just bad, but as full defeat? Simple not.
The bomb could just fall in front of Law and Kid, they could be done too.
Would then Oda claim it as victory of BM?
My point is, the bomb clearly took the victory claim for Kid and Law.
We as reader feeling her like neither Law or Kid attack couldn´t do much to BM, if the bomb scene didn´t happen, she just would fall down and perhaps comeback pretty fast later. In case Oda should made it clear that the victory only point of out that Law and Kid just took the W via throwing her out.
Another point is, via the bomb scene, Oda implied that neither Kid and Law been enough, he extra need to add the bomb power to end up the fight.
I read many post of Kid and Law fans who kinda feels of getting screwed by Oda all over again.
Kid and Law victory feels underwhelming, even thought BM was nerfed, they couldn´t beat her own their own.
At top as I said, if she comeback in elbaf and face Luffy, showing far stronger attacks, this will lead to the point where everyone realize how much she got nerfed her and still Kid and Law couldn´t take her down.
As someone who kinda cares for powerscaling, I can´t wait to see the outcome of Luffy vs Kaido.
After we see how both Kid and Law been not enough to beat non awakened+non adv CoC BM, I can´t imagine for Luffy beating Kaido alone.
I hope Oda not mess up the end fight, @dizzy2341 bring up a good idea with a Strawhats vs Kaido fight, with I would prefer more then getting Luffy alone vs Kaido.
However the victory is pretty cheap and I see lot of Kid and Law fans are disappointed out the outcome.
I mean are they really happy how the fight turn out? It is neither Law and Kid attack who actually took the defeat over BM.
It is a fucking bomb, the outcome is pretty sad for a fight like this, not worth to call a top tier battle outside of Law insane feats, since Kid and Big mom where awful the fight(Big Mom endurance is still top over top, crazy endurance feats).
Overall we got a pretty lackluster fight with a nonsense defeat who should not call as defeat.
People will realize how bs this fight was when Luffy face off stronger awakened BM in elbaf.
Alone the fact that Bigger Big mom could still come out as "victory" even without awakening and adv coc how massive op the Yonkou are, I expect even a far better feat for Kaido later.
Overall im very disappointed how Oda handle the whole fight.
Kid,Law and Bm deserved a far better fight, a better fight with great tension and not this.
@Buusatan94 amd @dirtyLarry already pointed it pretty good in other threads.
Overall I want to hear other opinions about this:
@MonsterKaido , @Hanzo hattori , @zzShinichi , @mly90 , @Peroroncino , @Buusatan94 , @dirtyLarry , @Kejon , @DarkWitch , @Olimaat , @Jaguark101 , @Charlotte LinLin , @ReggieZoldyck21 , @Lukegranders , @Trafalgar_D_Law , @Law-sama , @Pantheos (sry if I forget other users)
I feel like the only realy fandom with the W coming out of this fight was the Law fandom, otherwise as Kid and Big mom fan myself, im pretty disappointed.
But since it's Playa's thread so I have to comment on it. Lol
I agree.
I still feel BM was not warranted in Wano. By bringing her to wano Oda achieved nothing instead made it worse.
After WCI, Kaido should have been a team fight without BM involvement.
Later, Luffy should have taken small detour to WCI to wrap it up against BM.
And, if Oda really wanted BM to go down in wano then Kid should have gotten AdCoC.
His awakening lacks the impact and doesn't do justice to his portrayal and makes me feel that he is nowhere near the Law, Luffy and zoro's level.
And, this makes BM going down more troublesome. She hasn't even went all out.
It's good that Oda found out an external way to defeat her but it came at the cost of her embarassing portrayal.
Its clear to me that Oda doesn't care about flights bar Luffy and Zoro's
Kidd's DF is getting boring, even his Trump Card isn't enough to deal a serious damage to Top Tiers. He was lucky LAw was there with him. Law could have replicated the same feat with any other Mid Tier whereas Kidd simply can't.
And yeah, their victory wasn't clean but as the post itself said, they weren't really aiming to take her head their job was to keep her out of commission which they did. So it counts as a victory.
And yeah, their victory wasn't clean but as the post itself said, they weren't really aiming to take her head their job was to keep her out of commission which they did. So it counts as a victory.
The lack of AdCoC was fucking disappointing when we have Luffy vs Kaido going all out with their haki clashes.
Law was out of place, felt more like a callback to Sabaody, but Kid already had business with Linlin since FI arc, even attacking her ships and facing a Commander to avange Killer so this one at least is not a problem at all.
Still, Law with Awakening and Kid with AdCoC would be the way to go.
Law was out of place, felt more like a callback to Sabaody, but Kid already had business with Linlin since FI arc, even attacking her ships and facing a Commander to avange Killer so this one at least is not a problem at all.
Still, Law with Awakening and Kid with AdCoC would be the way to go.
I agree that there are many flaws in this fight like the poor portrayal of Kid as well as his weird shift in priorities, the exaggerated wank of Law, the underuse of CoC infusion by Big mom and, to some at least, her being portrayed as lesser than Kaido. Now to what I dont agree:
This one is wonky, I agree, but the way I rationalized it is that the war isnt about Kaido ever since he made the alliance with BM, the war is about the alliance itself aka the revival of the Rocks pirates(wich what I belive to be the lurking legend Oda mentioned years ago)
so even though Kaido is the one that fucked him over personally, in order to have his revenge they have to take down the alliance itself, and in that context him and Law going after BM makes sense
We simply dont know that, since we dont know what her awakening is, and its very likely that the use of souls on herself is her awakening
Though I agree that Oda should've showed us on panel, its still heavily implied that she used it offscreen against them
As to why he chose to do that is anyone's guess, my personal theory is that, just like most of the tobi roppo and to some degree the all star fights, Oda decided to put the focus on their unique powers rather than in haki, since Luffy vs Kaido is already all about that shit, even Zoro had more of a focus on his blade rather than the CoC coating by itself even though that is what it led to
I hard disagree with this, the built up of Kaido and BM having a connection goes way back, I would argue that the set up was made all the way back in Zou
Not to mention all the stuff during the reverie mini arc, plus both of their arcs make up the vs Yonko saga, not vs Kaido saga, so her comming, the alliance and their fall happening together was all clearly planned out
That contradicts Big mom's own statements and the conclusion given by the narrator
Does the scabbards or Yamato take away Luffy's claim if he defeats Kaido? Sure, its definitely a factor when measuring power levels and so on, but in universe it doesnt matter since its a battle of pirates, so using your surrondings to your advantage or even conviniences happening doesnt matter, since you are not expected to fight a fair fight to begin with
Big mom is the one that detonated the bomb, its her own mistake, so its still their win
This one is wonky, I agree, but the way I rationalized it is that the war isnt about Kaido ever since he made the alliance with BM, the war is about the alliance itself aka the revival of the Rocks pirates(wich what I belive to be the lurking legend Oda mentioned years ago)
We simply dont know that, since we dont know what her awakening is, and its very likely that the use of souls on herself is her awakening
Though I agree that Oda should've showed us on panel, its still heavily implied that she used it offscreen against them
As to why he chose to do that is anyone's guess, my personal theory is that, just like most of the tobi roppo and to some degree the all star fights, Oda decided to put the focus on their unique powers rather than in haki, since Luffy vs Kaido is already all about that shit, even Zoro had more of a focus on his blade rather than the CoC coating by itself even though that is what it led to
I hard disagree with this, the built up of Kaido and BM having a connection goes way back, I would argue that the set up was made all the way back in Zou
Not to mention all the stuff during the reverie mini arc, plus both of their arcs make up the vs Yonko saga, not vs Kaido saga, so her comming, the alliance and their fall happening together was all clearly planned out
That contradicts Big mom's own statements and the conclusion given by the narrator
Does the scabbards or Yamato take away Luffy's claim if he defeats Kaido? Sure, its definitely a factor when measuring power levels and so on, but in universe it doesnt matter since its a battle of pirates, so using your surrondings to your advantage or even conviniences happening doesnt matter, since you are not expected to fight a fair fight to begin with
Big mom is the one that detonated the bomb, its her own mistake, so its still their win
In my opinion, this was the correct way for Oda to have Big Mom defeated. Obviously Kid and Law were not ready to take her out in a straight fight, which would have been a major issue if Law and Kid finished off Big Mom with just awakening attacks. This was the most convincing way to make her "lose" without actually making her lose.
How is possible that a few floors are enough to stop the super mega ultra Kidd magnetism to attack all the explosive and destroy cry mom?
In term of pure distance the bomb arent that far away from Mom so how is possible that Kidd awakening cant pull the nuke to Cry Mom?
This shit show is just a shit show. Fucking floor are enough to block the magnetism power?.....
In term of pure distance the bomb arent that far away from Mom so how is possible that Kidd awakening cant pull the nuke to Cry Mom?
This shit show is just a shit show. Fucking floor are enough to block the magnetism power?.....
Hello everyone, Chapter 1040 did come out today and we got saw the end of the fight between Kid and Law vs BM with the Victory Textbox:
Law and Kid took the victory, their crewmembers even call it over a defeat of BM:
Now to make it clear, Im not saying anything to Kid and ofc Mvp Law performance, they put anything what they had and really show good feats.
I don´t anything against them winning against BM, in fact I was even for a victory for Kid and Law but not with this outcome!!
They didn´t deserve such a false and bullshit victory claim, all three deserve a far better fight without one fraction been nerfed...
No one would criticize Oda for letting BM lose after she show anything in the battle(Like awakening+adv Co) vs Kid and Law who also show more then "just" awakening.
What Oda did with Kid was the most brutal thing which he done since ever(next to what he did to Sanji pre Wano).
Hint his CoC, but never show it, made him a rival of Luffy but totally fail to improve him, alone the fact that his own fans(Kid fans) are disappointed how Oda threat him but hype Law kinda proof it out.
Overall we have here 3 characters who never had any buisness and should fight in Wano.
In fact Law plan and goal was Kaido, Kid goal was Kaido, the same one who almost kill him, took his crew in prison, give Killer a smile df and used him as murder and toyplay for Orochi, Kid goal was always Kaido, like we have legit many panels who support this claim.
And what happen if 3 characters who not have any buisness to each other, fight each other?
Lacks of tension, lacks of buildup and development of characters,beating BM only gains more bounty and fame, but for own develpment their is no point.
Beating BM doesn´t give Kid his revenge which he had as goal against Kaido, for Law the same, his goal was always Kaido.
And BM even thought getting defeated, will play a role in elbaf when her "true" plot play out against Luffy who was already build up of Oda since fishmen island.
The fight feels like a filler battle, only made to give Kid and Law a huge boost in bounty for later.
In fact they "didn´t defeat Big mom on their own"...
Which leads to the another point of the this battle.
Kid and Law fought a BM who not just used awakening, no she didn´t even used her adv CoC who had his showcase against fucking Pageone:
How a Yonkou used such a power against Pageone but not Kid and Law?
Why Oda even show this against Pageone if he not used it later, what is the point of this?
People say,this would give Bm enough firepower, but she legit one shot Pageone, a ancient zoan in similar durability as Ulti.
Ulti could stand up after a combo attack of Hera,Napoleon and Prometheus, same fused power who BM used as last power attack against Kid and Law.
So if Adv CoC have enough power to put all down Pageone, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law?
The attack is above G3, overall base punches of BM are pretty op, as we see against Capone Big father.
Adv CoC could play a huge factor, Oda could highlight it to also give Kid adv CoC.
Also BM didn´t showed up awakening, she has her df since 60years ago.
Yet one top tier who can do so much with her df, didn´t used awakening in this battle.
Neither awakening or adv CoC was a case Kid and Law.
Why I mentioned these powers?
Well im sure(would even bet against everyone here) and you can bet your ass, that Oda going to reveal these powers later!
Watch out when she face Luffy in Elbaf and used these powers,people will ask the question themselve again, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law,they will
realize how much Oda nerfed her in Wano which is my point. This will underwhelmed Kid and Law victory(who is already a nonsense in my eyes) even more and will show people how much a fillerfight the battle was against Kid and Law.
That is overall Oda problem, he didn´t care for the plotholes which he creat with entering BM, wanokuni.
In fact that Oda didn´t even know himself what he really plan with BM, im pretty sure Oda first plan was a end fight with Luffy,Kid and Law vs Kaido, but he change it since he had BM here. The worst case is, rather to fight a all out Yonkou, he disrespect Kid and Law, giving them a ass writing victory which they didn´t deserve.
They deserve the same as Luffy(after all the build up which he made until we reach this point), a hell all out battle against awakened Kaido with adv CoC.
Which lead us to the another point, the "victory" of Kid and Law.
Here this is BM, hit by Kid strongest attack:
Neither Law or Kid attack bring even BM to her limits, what Kid just do her is no difference as what Tien did against Cell:
The attack didn´t really do much to BM, it just force her out, Tien who was far far weaker then Cell did the same, pull him back again and again.
Which shows that neither Law or Kid had enough power to beat her, all what they could was the put her away from the battlefield, kinda similar what Jinbe and Robin did in the begin of the raid.
Im not saying that it is not impressiv what Kid and Law did, but in the end and everyone know it, all what they did was the throw BM out.
Big mom was still fresh and could easily fight back while this is Kid and Law right after they throw her out.
Big Mom:
And here Kid and Law:
Law and Kid reached their limits, Bm still could fight, still could used her power.
Oda never gives us reader the feeling that Bm was at her limit, no he even show her in her last moments in the chapter with rage and epic speech for a later comeback.
This kinda show how underwhelming the victory is for Kid and Law.
I mean it is not even their last attack who give them "their victory", it is a fucking nuke bomb who seems be the case for Big mom lose"(yeah as a shiit bomb knocking her out, Idk what Oda smoke her but he is for sure not let us believe that a bomb going to beat Big mom).
BM took one bomb pretty easily, then she got a another bomb, most like in combo with Kanjuro last fire spirit skill.
First bomb:
Second bomb:
The first bomb just only give her a cough, probably not hurt her much, im pretty sure the second one also not knock her out.
But that is not now the point, the point is that Law and Kid got the victory, how Oda count this as victory?
For throwing her away count already as victory? Or did the narative really implied that she was out after the bomb?
In case the first thing wouldn´t be even that bad, a victory over throwing her away is not just bad, but as full defeat? Simple not.
The bomb could just fall in front of Law and Kid, they could be done too.
Would then Oda claim it as victory of BM?
My point is, the bomb clearly took the victory claim for Kid and Law.
We as reader feeling her like neither Law or Kid attack couldn´t do much to BM, if the bomb scene didn´t happen, she just would fall down and perhaps comeback pretty fast later. In case Oda should made it clear that the victory only point of out that Law and Kid just took the W via throwing her out.
Another point is, via the bomb scene, Oda implied that neither Kid and Law been enough, he extra need to add the bomb power to end up the fight.
I read many post of Kid and Law fans who kinda feels of getting screwed by Oda all over again.
Kid and Law victory feels underwhelming, even thought BM was nerfed, they couldn´t beat her own their own.
At top as I said, if she comeback in elbaf and face Luffy, showing far stronger attacks, this will lead to the point where everyone realize how much she got nerfed her and still Kid and Law couldn´t take her down.
As someone who kinda cares for powerscaling, I can´t wait to see the outcome of Luffy vs Kaido.
After we see how both Kid and Law been not enough to beat non awakened+non adv CoC BM, I can´t imagine for Luffy beating Kaido alone.
I hope Oda not mess up the end fight, @dizzy2341 bring up a good idea with a Strawhats vs Kaido fight, with I would prefer more then getting Luffy alone vs Kaido.
However the victory is pretty cheap and I see lot of Kid and Law fans are disappointed out the outcome.
I mean are they really happy how the fight turn out? It is neither Law and Kid attack who actually took the defeat over BM.
It is a fucking bomb, the outcome is pretty sad for a fight like this, not worth to call a top tier battle outside of Law insane feats, since Kid and Big mom where awful the fight(Big Mom endurance is still top over top, crazy endurance feats).
Overall we got a pretty lackluster fight with a nonsense defeat who should not call as defeat.
People will realize how bs this fight was when Luffy face off stronger awakened BM in elbaf.
Alone the fact that Bigger Big mom could still come out as "victory" even without awakening and adv coc how massive op the Yonkou are, I expect even a far better feat for Kaido later.
Overall im very disappointed how Oda handle the whole fight.
Kid,Law and Bm deserved a far better fight, a better fight with great tension and not this.
@Buusatan94 amd @dirtyLarry already pointed it pretty good in other threads.
Overall I want to hear other opinions about this:
@MonsterKaido , @Hanzo hattori , @zzShinichi , @mly90 , @Peroroncino , @Buusatan94 , @dirtyLarry , @Kejon , @DarkWitch , @Olimaat , @Jaguark101 , @Charlotte LinLin , @ReggieZoldyck21 , @Lukegranders , @Trafalgar_D_Law , @Law-sama , @Pantheos (sry if I forget other users)
I feel like the only realy fandom with the W coming out of this fight was the Law fandom, otherwise as Kid and Big mom fan myself, im pretty disappointed.
Law and Kid took the victory, their crewmembers even call it over a defeat of BM:
Now to make it clear, Im not saying anything to Kid and ofc Mvp Law performance, they put anything what they had and really show good feats.
I don´t anything against them winning against BM, in fact I was even for a victory for Kid and Law but not with this outcome!!
They didn´t deserve such a false and bullshit victory claim, all three deserve a far better fight without one fraction been nerfed...
No one would criticize Oda for letting BM lose after she show anything in the battle(Like awakening+adv Co) vs Kid and Law who also show more then "just" awakening.
What Oda did with Kid was the most brutal thing which he done since ever(next to what he did to Sanji pre Wano).
Hint his CoC, but never show it, made him a rival of Luffy but totally fail to improve him, alone the fact that his own fans(Kid fans) are disappointed how Oda threat him but hype Law kinda proof it out.
Overall we have here 3 characters who never had any buisness and should fight in Wano.
In fact Law plan and goal was Kaido, Kid goal was Kaido, the same one who almost kill him, took his crew in prison, give Killer a smile df and used him as murder and toyplay for Orochi, Kid goal was always Kaido, like we have legit many panels who support this claim.
And what happen if 3 characters who not have any buisness to each other, fight each other?
Lacks of tension, lacks of buildup and development of characters,beating BM only gains more bounty and fame, but for own develpment their is no point.
Beating BM doesn´t give Kid his revenge which he had as goal against Kaido, for Law the same, his goal was always Kaido.
And BM even thought getting defeated, will play a role in elbaf when her "true" plot play out against Luffy who was already build up of Oda since fishmen island.
The fight feels like a filler battle, only made to give Kid and Law a huge boost in bounty for later.
In fact they "didn´t defeat Big mom on their own"...
Which leads to the another point of the this battle.
Kid and Law fought a BM who not just used awakening, no she didn´t even used her adv CoC who had his showcase against fucking Pageone:
How a Yonkou used such a power against Pageone but not Kid and Law?
Why Oda even show this against Pageone if he not used it later, what is the point of this?
People say,this would give Bm enough firepower, but she legit one shot Pageone, a ancient zoan in similar durability as Ulti.
Ulti could stand up after a combo attack of Hera,Napoleon and Prometheus, same fused power who BM used as last power attack against Kid and Law.
So if Adv CoC have enough power to put all down Pageone, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law?
The attack is above G3, overall base punches of BM are pretty op, as we see against Capone Big father.
Adv CoC could play a huge factor, Oda could highlight it to also give Kid adv CoC.
Also BM didn´t showed up awakening, she has her df since 60years ago.
Yet one top tier who can do so much with her df, didn´t used awakening in this battle.
Neither awakening or adv CoC was a case Kid and Law.
Why I mentioned these powers?
Well im sure(would even bet against everyone here) and you can bet your ass, that Oda going to reveal these powers later!
Watch out when she face Luffy in Elbaf and used these powers,people will ask the question themselve again, why she didn´t used it against Kid and Law,they will
realize how much Oda nerfed her in Wano which is my point. This will underwhelmed Kid and Law victory(who is already a nonsense in my eyes) even more and will show people how much a fillerfight the battle was against Kid and Law.
That is overall Oda problem, he didn´t care for the plotholes which he creat with entering BM, wanokuni.
In fact that Oda didn´t even know himself what he really plan with BM, im pretty sure Oda first plan was a end fight with Luffy,Kid and Law vs Kaido, but he change it since he had BM here. The worst case is, rather to fight a all out Yonkou, he disrespect Kid and Law, giving them a ass writing victory which they didn´t deserve.
They deserve the same as Luffy(after all the build up which he made until we reach this point), a hell all out battle against awakened Kaido with adv CoC.
Which lead us to the another point, the "victory" of Kid and Law.
Here this is BM, hit by Kid strongest attack:
Neither Law or Kid attack bring even BM to her limits, what Kid just do her is no difference as what Tien did against Cell:
The attack didn´t really do much to BM, it just force her out, Tien who was far far weaker then Cell did the same, pull him back again and again.
Which shows that neither Law or Kid had enough power to beat her, all what they could was the put her away from the battlefield, kinda similar what Jinbe and Robin did in the begin of the raid.
Im not saying that it is not impressiv what Kid and Law did, but in the end and everyone know it, all what they did was the throw BM out.
Big mom was still fresh and could easily fight back while this is Kid and Law right after they throw her out.
Big Mom:
And here Kid and Law:
Law and Kid reached their limits, Bm still could fight, still could used her power.
Oda never gives us reader the feeling that Bm was at her limit, no he even show her in her last moments in the chapter with rage and epic speech for a later comeback.
This kinda show how underwhelming the victory is for Kid and Law.
I mean it is not even their last attack who give them "their victory", it is a fucking nuke bomb who seems be the case for Big mom lose"(yeah as a shiit bomb knocking her out, Idk what Oda smoke her but he is for sure not let us believe that a bomb going to beat Big mom).
BM took one bomb pretty easily, then she got a another bomb, most like in combo with Kanjuro last fire spirit skill.
First bomb:
Second bomb:
The first bomb just only give her a cough, probably not hurt her much, im pretty sure the second one also not knock her out.
But that is not now the point, the point is that Law and Kid got the victory, how Oda count this as victory?
For throwing her away count already as victory? Or did the narative really implied that she was out after the bomb?
In case the first thing wouldn´t be even that bad, a victory over throwing her away is not just bad, but as full defeat? Simple not.
The bomb could just fall in front of Law and Kid, they could be done too.
Would then Oda claim it as victory of BM?
My point is, the bomb clearly took the victory claim for Kid and Law.
We as reader feeling her like neither Law or Kid attack couldn´t do much to BM, if the bomb scene didn´t happen, she just would fall down and perhaps comeback pretty fast later. In case Oda should made it clear that the victory only point of out that Law and Kid just took the W via throwing her out.
Another point is, via the bomb scene, Oda implied that neither Kid and Law been enough, he extra need to add the bomb power to end up the fight.
I read many post of Kid and Law fans who kinda feels of getting screwed by Oda all over again.
Kid and Law victory feels underwhelming, even thought BM was nerfed, they couldn´t beat her own their own.
At top as I said, if she comeback in elbaf and face Luffy, showing far stronger attacks, this will lead to the point where everyone realize how much she got nerfed her and still Kid and Law couldn´t take her down.
As someone who kinda cares for powerscaling, I can´t wait to see the outcome of Luffy vs Kaido.
After we see how both Kid and Law been not enough to beat non awakened+non adv CoC BM, I can´t imagine for Luffy beating Kaido alone.
I hope Oda not mess up the end fight, @dizzy2341 bring up a good idea with a Strawhats vs Kaido fight, with I would prefer more then getting Luffy alone vs Kaido.
However the victory is pretty cheap and I see lot of Kid and Law fans are disappointed out the outcome.
I mean are they really happy how the fight turn out? It is neither Law and Kid attack who actually took the defeat over BM.
It is a fucking bomb, the outcome is pretty sad for a fight like this, not worth to call a top tier battle outside of Law insane feats, since Kid and Big mom where awful the fight(Big Mom endurance is still top over top, crazy endurance feats).
Overall we got a pretty lackluster fight with a nonsense defeat who should not call as defeat.
People will realize how bs this fight was when Luffy face off stronger awakened BM in elbaf.
Alone the fact that Bigger Big mom could still come out as "victory" even without awakening and adv coc how massive op the Yonkou are, I expect even a far better feat for Kaido later.
Overall im very disappointed how Oda handle the whole fight.
Kid,Law and Bm deserved a far better fight, a better fight with great tension and not this.
@Buusatan94 amd @dirtyLarry already pointed it pretty good in other threads.
Overall I want to hear other opinions about this:
@MonsterKaido , @Hanzo hattori , @zzShinichi , @mly90 , @Peroroncino , @Buusatan94 , @dirtyLarry , @Kejon , @DarkWitch , @Olimaat , @Jaguark101 , @Charlotte LinLin , @ReggieZoldyck21 , @Lukegranders , @Trafalgar_D_Law , @Law-sama , @Pantheos (sry if I forget other users)
I feel like the only realy fandom with the W coming out of this fight was the Law fandom, otherwise as Kid and Big mom fan myself, im pretty disappointed.
Post automatically merged:
Yep,post skip Oda has been disappoiting.