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Yes. He's Denjiro. Denjiro was introduced being good with money. Kyoshiro is the money exchanger of the Flower Capital, Kyoshiro styles his ponytail like a pompadour, Denjiro was introduced literally a page after Hyogoro, he and Kin'emon were already acquainted thanks to their Yakuza connections. Denjiro even initiates the conversation about Boss Korokoma to Kin'emon, implying he knows him well.
In fact, Denjiro has been presented as the second most prominent Scabbard outside of Kin'emon in this flashback. Why do that if he isn't gonna be some important figure in the present time?
Kyoshiro and Denjiro also end the similarly in Hiragana and Kanji because Shiro and Jiro have "ro" at the end.
郎 - kanji for ro
ろう - hiragana for ro
There are no other ways of explaining where Denjiro was and who Kyoshiro is at this point unless they were one in the same. It'd otherwise make no sense to hold off on it when there's so much more going on in the arc. Kyoshiro has also been very mysterious as well. Why do that unless he was someone of importance.
Some of these don't mean much alone, but it starts adding up when they have this many connections.
In fact, Denjiro has been presented as the second most prominent Scabbard outside of Kin'emon in this flashback. Why do that if he isn't gonna be some important figure in the present time?
Kyoshiro and Denjiro also end the similarly in Hiragana and Kanji because Shiro and Jiro have "ro" at the end.
郎 - kanji for ro
ろう - hiragana for ro
There are no other ways of explaining where Denjiro was and who Kyoshiro is at this point unless they were one in the same. It'd otherwise make no sense to hold off on it when there's so much more going on in the arc. Kyoshiro has also been very mysterious as well. Why do that unless he was someone of importance.
Some of these don't mean much alone, but it starts adding up when they have this many connections.
I do think he's a good person, and if he is, he's very likely to be Denjiro
BUT I am hoping that he's a bad enemy. Because he looks like a very interesting character to have as an enemy.
By the way, there is a valid argument I see against him being Denjiro in that he organized the executio of Yasui, whom all the scabbard seem to feel great debt towards him.
However, to be fair, I can also see Yasui himself telling him that he needs to do this for the cause. Because Yasui lied about himself being the witching hour boy. So, Yasui intended to be captured and sacrifice himself in order to make Orochi look like a fool, who imprisoned people for nothing bcause of the leaked info about "crecent moon mark" on the ankle. So, even though, the argument of Kyoshiro letting Yasui die is a very strong argument, it's very possible that there was a secret encounter between Yasui and Kyoshiro, in which Yasui told him that he wants to do it, he needs to, it's the only thing he can do now as an "old man". Since he doesn't have his old strength, so, maybe he convinced Denjiro about the sacrifice, and Denjiro might be someone who have the HIGHEST dedication to the cause considering how much he idolized Oden. So, it's possible he accepted Yasui's plan.
But yeah, generally, I WISH that Kyoshiro is an enemy, and not an ally. But I'm very doubtful.
hell, him staying back in the capital during the fire festival is only more fuel added to him joining the forces on their attack.
BUT I am hoping that he's a bad enemy. Because he looks like a very interesting character to have as an enemy.
By the way, there is a valid argument I see against him being Denjiro in that he organized the executio of Yasui, whom all the scabbard seem to feel great debt towards him.
However, to be fair, I can also see Yasui himself telling him that he needs to do this for the cause. Because Yasui lied about himself being the witching hour boy. So, Yasui intended to be captured and sacrifice himself in order to make Orochi look like a fool, who imprisoned people for nothing bcause of the leaked info about "crecent moon mark" on the ankle. So, even though, the argument of Kyoshiro letting Yasui die is a very strong argument, it's very possible that there was a secret encounter between Yasui and Kyoshiro, in which Yasui told him that he wants to do it, he needs to, it's the only thing he can do now as an "old man". Since he doesn't have his old strength, so, maybe he convinced Denjiro about the sacrifice, and Denjiro might be someone who have the HIGHEST dedication to the cause considering how much he idolized Oden. So, it's possible he accepted Yasui's plan.
But yeah, generally, I WISH that Kyoshiro is an enemy, and not an ally. But I'm very doubtful.
hell, him staying back in the capital during the fire festival is only more fuel added to him joining the forces on their attack.
For the 40 billionth time, he's Denjiro. This was obvious since the 1st chapter of the flashback where Denjiro was shown to be an expert at handling money, i.e. Kyoshiro's fucking profession.
Look at this passage: "Poor, unlucky Kyoshiro is going to miss the banquet! He has to look over the capital where all the Samurai are locked up! The very Samurai that the Kozuki want to ally with! What a wild coincidence!"
We had Shutenmaru adopt a new name. We had Kawamatsu looking after Hiyori. Kyoshiro is doing both.
Look at this passage: "Poor, unlucky Kyoshiro is going to miss the banquet! He has to look over the capital where all the Samurai are locked up! The very Samurai that the Kozuki want to ally with! What a wild coincidence!"
We had Shutenmaru adopt a new name. We had Kawamatsu looking after Hiyori. Kyoshiro is doing both.
For the 40 billionth time, he's Denjiro. This was obvious since the 1st chapter of the flashback where Denjiro was shown to be an expert at handling money, i.e. Kyoshiro's fucking profession.
Look at this passage: "Poor, unlucky Kyoshiro is going to miss the banquet! He has to look over the capital where all the Samurai are locked up! The very Samurai that the Kozuki want to ally with! What a wild coincidence!"
We had Shutenmaru adopt a new name. We had Kawamatsu looking after Hiyori. Kyoshiro is doing both.
Look at this passage: "Poor, unlucky Kyoshiro is going to miss the banquet! He has to look over the capital where all the Samurai are locked up! The very Samurai that the Kozuki want to ally with! What a wild coincidence!"
We had Shutenmaru adopt a new name. We had Kawamatsu looking after Hiyori. Kyoshiro is doing both.
Denjiro is 10 feet tall, equal to Kinemon and "Kyoshiro" (amazing coincidence). Koshiro is 6 feet tall. Explain to me how they "look alike".
Kuina was 3 years old when Oden was boiled (obviously he's hiding her). Zoro was 1 years old and just a few years later, Denjiro magically loses half his height (but stays that exact same height for a decade later).
Can we stop with these garbage "theories"? It was clearly explained what happened with Wado Ichimonji, and the EB carpenter look-alike in East Blue in the SBS.
Also, don't you think Kinemon would notice that Zoro has fucking Denjiro's sword? He noticed Shusui, but Denjiro, his friend since CHILDHOOD, nope. No clue that Zoro has his sword.
Kuina was 3 years old when Oden was boiled (obviously he's hiding her). Zoro was 1 years old and just a few years later, Denjiro magically loses half his height (but stays that exact same height for a decade later).
Can we stop with these garbage "theories"? It was clearly explained what happened with Wado Ichimonji, and the EB carpenter look-alike in East Blue in the SBS.
Also, don't you think Kinemon would notice that Zoro has fucking Denjiro's sword? He noticed Shusui, but Denjiro, his friend since CHILDHOOD, nope. No clue that Zoro has his sword.
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Well Denjiro could just be dead too though.
The problems with Denjiro being Kyoshiro at the things we know about Kyoshiro. People said he appeared out of nowhere 20 years ago and set up his mafia organisation
If this is Denjiro then there's four weird implications
1. He changed his appearance in literally the exact same year he was about to be executed so much that no one recognizes him, NOT EVEN THE SCABBARDS.
2. He got over Oden's death relatively quickly seeing as he made this plan to form a new identity and work directly for Oden's murderer within a few months of Oden dying.
3. He is wilingly not helping with the alliance and actively saving Orochi from member of the alliance because he somehow believes whatever plan he has is worth more than this prophecy shit and he wouldn't be bothered if his former comrades died
4. He trained his former master's daughter as a prostitute working around orochi yet she looks exactly like her mother making it extremely likely that someone could just remember recognize her. (Do you remember the line he said during Orochi's banquet about Komurasaki? He says something in the vain of having to be a stud in order to fully bring women into bloom or some shit. The man's basically implying that he either fucked her himself or hes proud of how he groomed her to be an exceptional fuck toy. ITS FUCKIN WEIRD talking about your master's daughter like that given how much respect kin'Emon gives Momo)
Are you seeing how these things are piling up? Aside from the appearance change, there's a lot about Kyoshiro's actions and demeanor thatare vastly different from Denjiro or what you'd expect of oden's loyal men.
I mean it could said he went through some character changes in these years but as we said, he showed up in the exact same year as Oden dying so he really flipped really fast. And the nonsense around Him and Komurasaki is just weird. Like I cannot imagine what Oda would have to do to explain that one of Oden's men saw it best to turn Oden's daughter into a prostitute while everyone else cares about Momo being shogun. I've come to understand and accept that Oda is a very sexist guy, it is what it is, but this outcome is aggressively too sexist for me to handle unfortunately.
The problems with Denjiro being Kyoshiro at the things we know about Kyoshiro. People said he appeared out of nowhere 20 years ago and set up his mafia organisation
If this is Denjiro then there's four weird implications
1. He changed his appearance in literally the exact same year he was about to be executed so much that no one recognizes him, NOT EVEN THE SCABBARDS.
2. He got over Oden's death relatively quickly seeing as he made this plan to form a new identity and work directly for Oden's murderer within a few months of Oden dying.
3. He is wilingly not helping with the alliance and actively saving Orochi from member of the alliance because he somehow believes whatever plan he has is worth more than this prophecy shit and he wouldn't be bothered if his former comrades died
4. He trained his former master's daughter as a prostitute working around orochi yet she looks exactly like her mother making it extremely likely that someone could just remember recognize her. (Do you remember the line he said during Orochi's banquet about Komurasaki? He says something in the vain of having to be a stud in order to fully bring women into bloom or some shit. The man's basically implying that he either fucked her himself or hes proud of how he groomed her to be an exceptional fuck toy. ITS FUCKIN WEIRD talking about your master's daughter like that given how much respect kin'Emon gives Momo)
Are you seeing how these things are piling up? Aside from the appearance change, there's a lot about Kyoshiro's actions and demeanor thatare vastly different from Denjiro or what you'd expect of oden's loyal men.
I mean it could said he went through some character changes in these years but as we said, he showed up in the exact same year as Oden dying so he really flipped really fast. And the nonsense around Him and Komurasaki is just weird. Like I cannot imagine what Oda would have to do to explain that one of Oden's men saw it best to turn Oden's daughter into a prostitute while everyone else cares about Momo being shogun. I've come to understand and accept that Oda is a very sexist guy, it is what it is, but this outcome is aggressively too sexist for me to handle unfortunately.
W
I've always suspected that Kyoshiro is a good guy. When the anime opening put him in Denjiro's place, I felt pretty sure he was Denjiro.
He takes care of Komurasaki, deals in money, and there's nothing to prevent him from also being Hyou's son/nephew/whatever.
Kyoshiro's hair transition from normal --> Japanese hoodlum pompadour reminds me a lot of
Kin's hair transition from bleach blonde Japanese hoodlum --> serious samurai topknot
I think he's Denjiro, especially because I have no other way to account for Denjiro in the present and Kyoshiro in the past as significant characters.
He takes care of Komurasaki, deals in money, and there's nothing to prevent him from also being Hyou's son/nephew/whatever.
Kyoshiro's hair transition from normal --> Japanese hoodlum pompadour reminds me a lot of
Kin's hair transition from bleach blonde Japanese hoodlum --> serious samurai topknot
I think he's Denjiro, especially because I have no other way to account for Denjiro in the present and Kyoshiro in the past as significant characters.
W
yeah, some readers seem especially hung up on that...
Edit since auto-merge is gone and I don't want to separate these ideas:
What if after Oden died, Hyou's son/nephew/protégé Denjiro took over the the Yakuza and took both Hiyori (post-Kawamatsu) and Otoko in as their guardian?
Denjiro/Kyoshiro may have been looking after both families
Edit since auto-merge is gone and I don't want to separate these ideas:
What if after Oden died, Hyou's son/nephew/protégé Denjiro took over the the Yakuza and took both Hiyori (post-Kawamatsu) and Otoko in as their guardian?
Denjiro/Kyoshiro may have been looking after both families
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Shouldn't we though? 8 year old momo gets the Whole mink tribe to bow down to him and forget their 20 year old grudge when he shows up and then this is repeated in udon with the entire prison bowing down to momo.
Momo's sister becomes a prostitute at the hands of her father's actual retainer because apparently that's the only way she could've contributed to this plan? She ether gives birth to a new successor or she becomes a prostitute who hangs around her father's killer even though she is a spitting image of her mother and anyone could just wake up one day and realise that she looks exactly like toki and this plan was supposedly made by one of Oden's loyal confidants
I mean it's not impossible for this to be what happened but good god Oda would've sunk to a new low regarding how he treats his female characters if this is what happened
I mean surely you weren't like praising Oda when t was revealed the only reason Hiyori wasn't sent into the future was that she had a womb so she could grow up and give jorth their a new male heir in case something happened to momo... Now if its revealed her father's closest men also decided that she should become a prostitute as the only alternative to this, are you saying this wouldn't even rub you the wrong way a little bit?
Momo's sister becomes a prostitute at the hands of her father's actual retainer because apparently that's the only way she could've contributed to this plan? She ether gives birth to a new successor or she becomes a prostitute who hangs around her father's killer even though she is a spitting image of her mother and anyone could just wake up one day and realise that she looks exactly like toki and this plan was supposedly made by one of Oden's loyal confidants
I mean it's not impossible for this to be what happened but good god Oda would've sunk to a new low regarding how he treats his female characters if this is what happened
I mean surely you weren't like praising Oda when t was revealed the only reason Hiyori wasn't sent into the future was that she had a womb so she could grow up and give jorth their a new male heir in case something happened to momo... Now if its revealed her father's closest men also decided that she should become a prostitute as the only alternative to this, are you saying this wouldn't even rub you the wrong way a little bit?
Im not assuming your gender since I didn't know it until you said just it.
I'm asking whether this makes sense as per the narrative and what Oda would actually do to this character.
Remember Hiyori spent 7 years with Kawamatsu living in squalor and he was so loyal that he was actually withering away and about to actually die trying to find food for her and keep her safe.THIS HERE is what I expect the retainers would do for Oden's children.
Now with Kyoshiro being Denjiro, not only is it morally reprehensible that he turned her into a prostitute, he also doesn't actually keep her safe. She grew up to be a saw spitting image of her mother and the only reason no one has found her out is because they are either dumb or forgot.
Of course it could be said later on that this was in fact Hiyori's plan herself to becaome a prostitute and work directly next to people who killed her parents and could recognize her one day and I'm 98% sure this is how Oda will spin this if this kyoshiro fellow is supposed to become a good guy in some way later on
So in the end, the story would need that Hiyori was not time travelled because she had a womb and when she got a chance to do whatever she wanted she used her vagina to stay relevant in the series but it was her decision this time so its fine and kyoshiro isn't a bad guy now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking you to change whatever opinion you have of this situation, I'm just asking for what YOU think of it at all. The lost ouve said is that it's not a big deal so I'm just wondering why you think this is possibly a good story somehow
I'm asking whether this makes sense as per the narrative and what Oda would actually do to this character.
Remember Hiyori spent 7 years with Kawamatsu living in squalor and he was so loyal that he was actually withering away and about to actually die trying to find food for her and keep her safe.THIS HERE is what I expect the retainers would do for Oden's children.
Now with Kyoshiro being Denjiro, not only is it morally reprehensible that he turned her into a prostitute, he also doesn't actually keep her safe. She grew up to be a saw spitting image of her mother and the only reason no one has found her out is because they are either dumb or forgot.
Of course it could be said later on that this was in fact Hiyori's plan herself to becaome a prostitute and work directly next to people who killed her parents and could recognize her one day and I'm 98% sure this is how Oda will spin this if this kyoshiro fellow is supposed to become a good guy in some way later on
So in the end, the story would need that Hiyori was not time travelled because she had a womb and when she got a chance to do whatever she wanted she used her vagina to stay relevant in the series but it was her decision this time so its fine and kyoshiro isn't a bad guy now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking you to change whatever opinion you have of this situation, I'm just asking for what YOU think of it at all. The lost ouve said is that it's not a big deal so I'm just wondering why you think this is possibly a good story somehow
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