Questions & Mysteries Did Zoro lose against Enel
- Thread starter Tai long
- Start date
You shouldnt. Kaido is the best example, he will lose inevitably because of a gauntlet and yet his 1vs1 claim isnt debunked.
What I said is that WHAT IF scenario doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is what actually happened.
Zoro lost after several fights that have damaged and exhausted him.
Zoro lost after he took Hakai too, nobody holds that against him.
Nobody blames Zoro for losing to Arlong due to Mihawk's injury...
Thanks for confirming that you didnt understand a single thing after 24 years, lol.
What I said is that WHAT IF scenario doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is what actually happened.
Zoro lost after several fights that have damaged and exhausted him.
Zoro lost after he took Hakai too, nobody holds that against him.
Nobody blames Zoro for losing to Arlong due to Mihawk's injury...
Thanks for confirming that you didnt understand a single thing after 24 years, lol.
So Crocodile, Enel, Moria, Magellan, Doflamingo. Didn't lose to Luffy? because of all the Gauntlets they had to go through in order for Luffy to win with PIS and that wasn't really a loss for them.
They were defeated by Luffy but it shouldn't count as a loss because of all the other factors involved. Really Luffy wasn't stronger then them when he was credited of defeating them at that time.
I see your point. I think I can agree with this.
Edit: However like I've been saying Oda doesn't think this way. Oda's is the problem not the characters. He showed and gave credit to Luffy for winning like he did for Law, and Kidd against BM.
Oda clealy with a fucking Narrative text box proclains Law and Kidds victory over BM when really BM is in the same boat as all the previous villains i've mentioned just like how you are doing for Zoro.
They were defeated by Luffy but it shouldn't count as a loss because of all the other factors involved. Really Luffy wasn't stronger then them when he was credited of defeating them at that time.
I see your point. I think I can agree with this.
Edit: However like I've been saying Oda doesn't think this way. Oda's is the problem not the characters. He showed and gave credit to Luffy for winning like he did for Law, and Kidd against BM.
Oda clealy with a fucking Narrative text box proclains Law and Kidds victory over BM when really BM is in the same boat as all the previous villains i've mentioned just like how you are doing for Zoro.
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Zoro was defeated, defeated, defeated on the rooftop as well but that loss didnt break his promise either.
Crying wont help you, you simply dont understand what Oda counts as a loss for Zoro.
I guess the author confirming it cant change your agenda either.
Did you literally not see him say 5 chapters ago that his promise isnt broken or that happened only in Zoro Piece?
They did but none of them loses to Luffy in 1vs1 with only 1 round available.
As I said, dont confuse plot dragging Luffy's ass to victory with Luffy being stronger than those people. He wasnt.
It doesnt matter in their case, because there is no claim at stake - no 1vs1 king or promise of never losing again.
Oda thinks Zoro's promise is not broken and I have explained it why.
He doesnt hold it against Zoro if he gets defeated after a gauntlet, after a cheap shot and in 2vs1...
He only considers a loss a fair 1vs1 in good condition. Thus the promise is still in tact.
I dont have a problem with Law and Kidd winning against Big Mom despite Oda making them look bad because of how they won...
I said long ago that they have the tools to beat her fair and square, back then, when most people were saying they aint beating her.
I dont think BM is in the same boat as Zoro in his gauntlets nor is any 1vs1 claim or promise affected by BM losing to them...
Crying wont help you, you simply dont understand what Oda counts as a loss for Zoro.
I guess the author confirming it cant change your agenda either.
Did you literally not see him say 5 chapters ago that his promise isnt broken or that happened only in Zoro Piece?
They did but none of them loses to Luffy in 1vs1 with only 1 round available.
As I said, dont confuse plot dragging Luffy's ass to victory with Luffy being stronger than those people. He wasnt.
It doesnt matter in their case, because there is no claim at stake - no 1vs1 king or promise of never losing again.
Oda thinks Zoro's promise is not broken and I have explained it why.
He doesnt hold it against Zoro if he gets defeated after a gauntlet, after a cheap shot and in 2vs1...
He only considers a loss a fair 1vs1 in good condition. Thus the promise is still in tact.
I dont have a problem with Law and Kidd winning against Big Mom despite Oda making them look bad because of how they won...
I said long ago that they have the tools to beat her fair and square, back then, when most people were saying they aint beating her.
I dont think BM is in the same boat as Zoro in his gauntlets nor is any 1vs1 claim or promise affected by BM losing to them...
Zoro was defeated, defeated, defeated on the rooftop as well but that loss didnt break his promise either.
Crying wont help you, you simply dont understand what Oda counts as a loss for Zoro.
I guess the author confirming it cant change your agenda either.
Did you literally not see him say 5 chapters ago that his promise isnt broken or that happened only in Zoro Piece?
Crying wont help you, you simply dont understand what Oda counts as a loss for Zoro.
I guess the author confirming it cant change your agenda either.
Did you literally not see him say 5 chapters ago that his promise isnt broken or that happened only in Zoro Piece?
I am crying? That's why you're crying and bitching the whole day about agenda bois how they massacre your stupid mental gymnastics this much?
Author stated all got defeated, keep the same energy you creditless hypocrite.
The thing is, this isn't Zoro Piece or anything like that. It's just you proven to be incredibly stupid.
You see? You are confused... You think I am crying and bitching while I am just waving what the author said in front of your eyes and y'all being mad at me for it... You cant fathom that none of those defeats count as a loss for Zoro's promise.
You are completely confused, I never denied Zoro being defeated, I literally said it several times, lol.
You simply dont understand why such defeats dont count as a loss and Zoro's promise still standing.
One Piece has proven that Zoro's promise is alive and kicking and you cant do shit about it.
You are completely confused, I never denied Zoro being defeated, I literally said it several times, lol.
You simply dont understand why such defeats dont count as a loss and Zoro's promise still standing.
One Piece has proven that Zoro's promise is alive and kicking and you cant do shit about it.
You see? You are confused... You think I am crying and bitching while I am just waving what the author said in front of your eyes and y'all being mad at me for it... You cant fathom that none of those defeats count as a loss for Zoro's promise.
You are completely confused, I never denied Zoro being defeated, I literally said it several times, lol.
You simply dont understand why such defeats dont count as a loss and Zoro's promise still standing.
One Piece has proven that Zoro's promise is alive and kicking and you cant do shit about it.
You are completely confused, I never denied Zoro being defeated, I literally said it several times, lol.
You simply dont understand why such defeats dont count as a loss and Zoro's promise still standing.
One Piece has proven that Zoro's promise is alive and kicking and you cant do shit about it.
Again, you chose author's words when it's convinent but the author literally stated - and showed ON PANEL - how everyone got defeated. Not my fault you're intellectually dishonest.
If so, you need to improve your vocabulary because a loss is the result of being defeated. Look up dictionaries if possible...
Again, Zoro got mollywhooped and his promise is still kicking in. You just make this one to be an all thing.
On 1vs1 duels, he never lost, thus his promise isn't broken. Doesn't mean he didn't lose against Enel. The mere fact that I'm debating this with you is already sad enough.
You really are funny calling me butthurt and unable to see my favorite losing despite everything contrary...
I have never met anyone who can create such illusions as you can, Sen-chan. Once again, you arent paying attention.
I said he was defeat, the reason why I quoted you is because his promise doesnt refer to swordsmen. Wake up, lol.
No, I have argued the same thing without author's confirmation, back then I had to explain myself, now, I just use author's words.
You didnt believe me then, you dont believe me now. Whether author confirms something or not, you dont change.
Once again, I never denied everyone being defeated. Are you deaf or blind or what is this? lmao
It is not my fault you dont understand how Zoro can be defeated without ever losing since Mihawk. I understand it just fine, you dont.
Enel hitting Zoro is no different than Kaido hitting Zoro, not held against Zoro and not affecting his promise of never losing.
The mere fact that people consider that Zoro lost to Enel while author said 5 chapters ago that he didnt, says even more.
I have never met anyone who can create such illusions as you can, Sen-chan. Once again, you arent paying attention.
I said he was defeat, the reason why I quoted you is because his promise doesnt refer to swordsmen. Wake up, lol.
No, I have argued the same thing without author's confirmation, back then I had to explain myself, now, I just use author's words.
You didnt believe me then, you dont believe me now. Whether author confirms something or not, you dont change.
Once again, I never denied everyone being defeated. Are you deaf or blind or what is this? lmao
It is not my fault you dont understand how Zoro can be defeated without ever losing since Mihawk. I understand it just fine, you dont.
Enel hitting Zoro is no different than Kaido hitting Zoro, not held against Zoro and not affecting his promise of never losing.
The mere fact that people consider that Zoro lost to Enel while author said 5 chapters ago that he didnt, says even more.
You really are funny calling me butthurt and unable to see my favorite losing despite everything contrary...
I have never met anyone who can create such illusions as you can, Sen-chan. Once again, you arent paying attention.
I said he was defeat, the reason why I quoted you is because his promise doesnt refer to swordsmen. Wake up, lol.
No, I have argued the same thing without author's confirmation, back then I had to explain myself, now, I just use author's words.
You didnt believe me then, you dont believe me now. Whether author confirms something or not, you dont change.
Once again, I never denied everyone being defeated. Are you deaf or blind or what is this? lmao
It is not my fault you dont understand how Zoro can be defeated without ever losing since Mihawk. I understand it just fine, you dont.
Enel hitting Zoro is no different than Kaido hitting Zoro, not held against Zoro and not affecting his promise of never losing.
The mere fact that people consider that Zoro lost to Enel while author said 5 chapters ago that he didnt, says even more.
I have never met anyone who can create such illusions as you can, Sen-chan. Once again, you arent paying attention.
I said he was defeat, the reason why I quoted you is because his promise doesnt refer to swordsmen. Wake up, lol.
No, I have argued the same thing without author's confirmation, back then I had to explain myself, now, I just use author's words.
You didnt believe me then, you dont believe me now. Whether author confirms something or not, you dont change.
Once again, I never denied everyone being defeated. Are you deaf or blind or what is this? lmao
It is not my fault you dont understand how Zoro can be defeated without ever losing since Mihawk. I understand it just fine, you dont.
Enel hitting Zoro is no different than Kaido hitting Zoro, not held against Zoro and not affecting his promise of never losing.
The mere fact that people consider that Zoro lost to Enel while author said 5 chapters ago that he didnt, says even more.
What illusions? You chose to believe your own twisted narrative; Zoro was defeated, including everyone else, yet he didn't lose. So everyone didn't lose either? Author's statement about Zoro not losing is obviously true and if you're actually capable of reading, you'd have known I didn't contradict it.
Zoro's unable to hurt Enel, got two shotted by more casual lightning attacks. There's no way Skypia Zoro wouldn't have lost against Enel.
Anyway, I'll call it a rest, it's way too stupid to argue about. We both agree that 1.) Zoro got defeated and 2.) his promise not being broken. Yet, you're on about some shit, so I have no intention of continuing it any further.
Zoro was defeated, defeated, defeated on the rooftop as well but that loss didnt break his promise either.
Crying wont help you, you simply dont understand what Oda counts as a loss for Zoro.
I guess the author confirming it cant change your agenda either.
Did you literally not see him say 5 chapters ago that his promise isnt broken or that happened only in Zoro Piece?
They did but none of them loses to Luffy in 1vs1 with only 1 round available.
As I said, dont confuse plot dragging Luffy's ass to victory with Luffy being stronger than those people. He wasnt.
It doesnt matter in their case, because there is no claim at stake - no 1vs1 king or promise of never losing again.
Oda thinks Zoro's promise is not broken and I have explained it why.
He doesnt hold it against Zoro if he gets defeated after a gauntlet, after a cheap shot and in 2vs1...
He only considers a loss a fair 1vs1 in good condition. Thus the promise is still in tact.
I dont have a problem with Law and Kidd winning against Big Mom despite Oda making them look bad because of how they won...
I said long ago that they have the tools to beat her fair and square, back then, when most people were saying they aint beating her.
I dont think BM is in the same boat as Zoro in his gauntlets nor is any 1vs1 claim or promise affected by BM losing to them...
Crying wont help you, you simply dont understand what Oda counts as a loss for Zoro.
I guess the author confirming it cant change your agenda either.
Did you literally not see him say 5 chapters ago that his promise isnt broken or that happened only in Zoro Piece?
They did but none of them loses to Luffy in 1vs1 with only 1 round available.
As I said, dont confuse plot dragging Luffy's ass to victory with Luffy being stronger than those people. He wasnt.
It doesnt matter in their case, because there is no claim at stake - no 1vs1 king or promise of never losing again.
Oda thinks Zoro's promise is not broken and I have explained it why.
He doesnt hold it against Zoro if he gets defeated after a gauntlet, after a cheap shot and in 2vs1...
He only considers a loss a fair 1vs1 in good condition. Thus the promise is still in tact.
I dont have a problem with Law and Kidd winning against Big Mom despite Oda making them look bad because of how they won...
I said long ago that they have the tools to beat her fair and square, back then, when most people were saying they aint beating her.
I dont think BM is in the same boat as Zoro in his gauntlets nor is any 1vs1 claim or promise affected by BM losing to them...
I am disagreeing with you in regards to you claim that its due to the Gauntlet. like a said before. So let me clarify further regarding this matter.
Yes I do think Oda doesn't count those as defeats however the argument of Gauntlet being used as a excuse by you or even Oda himself is contradictory because of all the previous examples I gave regarding to the villains going through similar and much tougher Gauntlets. You have disagreed with this point especially regarding BM I know. I'm just to lazy to go and post images of actual scenes from the manga. I can also dig up images of Croc, Enel, Donflamigo going through a much tougher Gauntlet. You get my point. You would argue this has nothing to do with Zoro's promise not to lose but that is not what i'm arguing about in the first place. You say there is no claim at stake but thats not my debate with is about. Its about the Gauntlet being use as evidence to excuse Zoro's defeats and not count them as losses.
So if Oda makes the villains go through Gauntlets and causes them to lose with the protagonist and proclaims the villains have lost with a official text box. Then this argument you or even Oda himself is using to prove that Zoro didn't lose is contradictory and a plot hole. Simple as that. Because he calls the villains losses as losses but the heroes losses as uncontested or no contest. This is a terrible writing and a plot hole. Yes I do agree with you that Oda doesn't count Zoro's previous defeats as losses especially after having posted that image of him reminding us again after having defeated King. However my point is that doesn't mean it makes it right. Its a Contradiction and hypocritical according to his own Manga evidence I've mentioned in regards to the Villains Gauntlets which are far more tougher than what Zoro had to go through at Sky Island. I mean Enel literary dies at the hands of Wiper with the reject dial i can go on with other examples from other villains going through tough encounters before their eventual loss.
So like I have been saying This Gauntlet excuse you and or Oda using to defend Zoro's lose is a Contradiction.
Funnily enough in this same Skypiea arc Oda also makes Zoro claim another contradiction in Zoro's character. the Iconic "She's a Women".
Which is also a HUGE contradiction in regards to Zoro's character. Zoro who from childhood someone who dissuade his rival Kuina from these thoughts... Yet we have Zoro himself proclaims this contradictory statement. People also started making dumb excuse regarding this moment and comment made by Zoro saying oh Zoro isn't contradicting himself. He just changed his views on women because how easily Kuina died.... LOL....
Dumb excesses.
same thing here. the Problem is Oda. Zoro made those statements because Oda's personal feelings and opinions were mistakenly added in. A huge mistake and a contradiction.
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You know that walls of text are inevitable, after all, I need to address all your nonsense...
Nothing about my narrative is twisted. The author himself is of the same opinion. You are the one who disagrees.
Zoro was defeated but that defeat doesnt count as a loss due to context which you conveniently ignore.
You didnt contradict it by saying it refers to only swordsmen. Well, got news for you, it doesnt refer to swordsmen only.
And you still didnt address that despite that being the first thing I quoted you for.
I am not interested in your headcanon whether Zoro would or wouldnt lose to Enel.
I am interested in explaining to you why that defeat doesnt count as a loss for Zoro.
Or the one against Kizaru, or the one against Yeti Cool Bros and so on...
The only thing left is for you to tell me how Zoro can be defeated "without ever losing again" and that not referring to swordsmen.
I dont know why you disagree with a gauntlet when that is literally what happened... And it is happening right now with Kaido too.
That's how Oda gets away with Zoro losing without losing or Kaido losing without being beaten by 1 guy.
You have rooftop as an example as well, Zoro was defeated without losing to anyone.
In Skypiea, Enel simply happened to be the part of the gauntlet where Zoro stopped.
Oda doesnt consider such defeat as a loss. The fandom is something else, what matters is how Oda himself sees it.
Nothing about my narrative is twisted. The author himself is of the same opinion. You are the one who disagrees.
Zoro was defeated but that defeat doesnt count as a loss due to context which you conveniently ignore.
You didnt contradict it by saying it refers to only swordsmen. Well, got news for you, it doesnt refer to swordsmen only.
And you still didnt address that despite that being the first thing I quoted you for.
I am not interested in your headcanon whether Zoro would or wouldnt lose to Enel.
I am interested in explaining to you why that defeat doesnt count as a loss for Zoro.
Or the one against Kizaru, or the one against Yeti Cool Bros and so on...
The only thing left is for you to tell me how Zoro can be defeated "without ever losing again" and that not referring to swordsmen.
I dont know why you disagree with a gauntlet when that is literally what happened... And it is happening right now with Kaido too.
That's how Oda gets away with Zoro losing without losing or Kaido losing without being beaten by 1 guy.
You have rooftop as an example as well, Zoro was defeated without losing to anyone.
In Skypiea, Enel simply happened to be the part of the gauntlet where Zoro stopped.
Oda doesnt consider such defeat as a loss. The fandom is something else, what matters is how Oda himself sees it.
You need to address "nonsense" with more nonsense? Also, writing more mental diarrhea doesn't make your argument better, lol. But okay, I'll address every kind of horseshit as well, okay?
Zoro's promise of never losing and being the best swordsman wasn't broken as evident by his 1vs1 match-ups - he won all of them. I go by this; you include ALL battles, and funnily enough, Enel vs everyone can be hardly viewed as a battle since he stomped everyone. Enel, Kuma and Kizaru are one of the exceptions of Zoro losing without contradicting his promise. I am contradicting YOUR INTERPRETATION, stop acting like it's Oda's or something like that. This is the only issue in this discussion. You are consistently shifting and twisting the narrative as much as you like. When the panels were dropped, you said "Uh, GaUnTlEt! DoEsN't CoUnT!!" whilst dropping "yOu aRe IgNoRiNg AuThOr'S wOrDs!" like a parrot. That's why I didn't even intent to have lengthy debates - because it is a waste of time. But because of what? It's because you're extraordinarily intellectually dishonest in this discussion which already started when you quoted me with random rant. Did it trigger you that I said "Enel destroyed Zoro"? I guess so.
But I'm not done, let's look even further at the garbage worth of Mt. Everest: In order to use the "context" argument, you have to understand it at first, silly nikky. Enel didn't only defeat Zoro, he defeated everyone and also nearly killed everyone. Zoro's loss didn't count in his promise since the context - as well as the circumstance - were different to his usual battles. Instances like Mr. 1 and King show that Zoro doesn't necessarily only fight swordsmen but those still have quite a similar fighting style - thus, they're still part of his winning streak. Enel, Kuma and Kizaru do not count since the match-up circumstances were way too different to handle Zoro this permanent L to his promise.
The next nonsense. You think your interpretation is correct when there are instances of match-ups handling Zoro his loss. Well, go ahead - you have a hard time proving it's about everyone when there are examples of Zoro being defeated in fact...
I didn't address it before mainly because I still had to make sure whether you're just trolling about Zoro not losing to Enel. But well, you're clearly not joking - sadly - and now, I will thoroughly elaborate why your takes are shit. Well, for starters, read the paragraphs above as much as possible UNTIL YOU GRASP EVERYTHING. Then come again.
There's no headcanon. Zoro would have lost 10/10. But okay, that's not your priority, so let's move on.
Well, sucks to be you since you failed extremely hard at it. Your explanations do not only contradict the definition of loss, it also contradicts how Oda portrayed Zoro's winning streak, which is linked to his promise, as well. Zoro's promise isn't included on literally everything. There are opponents - especially in Pre-TS - bound to be massively superior to Zoro and him inevitably losing. Enel, Kuma and Kizaru - those are instances of such match-ups.
Yeti Cool Brothers isn't a loss, Kizaru's is though.
You cannot be defeated without losing, that's a contradiction in itself. You get defeated in two rounds, you will lose. You get knocked out in a street fight, you lost. You are not beating the one in a car racing, you lost. And so on, and so on... There's hardly an argument you could make for Zoro not losing against Enel, especially since Enel was about to wipe out EVERYONE if it wasn't for Luffy. Zoro would have actually fucking died in this situation, along with everyone else in Skypia.
Zoro's promise of never losing and being the best swordsman wasn't broken as evident by his 1vs1 match-ups - he won all of them. I go by this; you include ALL battles, and funnily enough, Enel vs everyone can be hardly viewed as a battle since he stomped everyone. Enel, Kuma and Kizaru are one of the exceptions of Zoro losing without contradicting his promise. I am contradicting YOUR INTERPRETATION, stop acting like it's Oda's or something like that. This is the only issue in this discussion. You are consistently shifting and twisting the narrative as much as you like. When the panels were dropped, you said "Uh, GaUnTlEt! DoEsN't CoUnT!!" whilst dropping "yOu aRe IgNoRiNg AuThOr'S wOrDs!" like a parrot. That's why I didn't even intent to have lengthy debates - because it is a waste of time. But because of what? It's because you're extraordinarily intellectually dishonest in this discussion which already started when you quoted me with random rant. Did it trigger you that I said "Enel destroyed Zoro"? I guess so.
But I'm not done, let's look even further at the garbage worth of Mt. Everest: In order to use the "context" argument, you have to understand it at first, silly nikky. Enel didn't only defeat Zoro, he defeated everyone and also nearly killed everyone. Zoro's loss didn't count in his promise since the context - as well as the circumstance - were different to his usual battles. Instances like Mr. 1 and King show that Zoro doesn't necessarily only fight swordsmen but those still have quite a similar fighting style - thus, they're still part of his winning streak. Enel, Kuma and Kizaru do not count since the match-up circumstances were way too different to handle Zoro this permanent L to his promise.
The next nonsense. You think your interpretation is correct when there are instances of match-ups handling Zoro his loss. Well, go ahead - you have a hard time proving it's about everyone when there are examples of Zoro being defeated in fact...
I didn't address it before mainly because I still had to make sure whether you're just trolling about Zoro not losing to Enel. But well, you're clearly not joking - sadly - and now, I will thoroughly elaborate why your takes are shit. Well, for starters, read the paragraphs above as much as possible UNTIL YOU GRASP EVERYTHING. Then come again.
There's no headcanon. Zoro would have lost 10/10. But okay, that's not your priority, so let's move on.
Well, sucks to be you since you failed extremely hard at it. Your explanations do not only contradict the definition of loss, it also contradicts how Oda portrayed Zoro's winning streak, which is linked to his promise, as well. Zoro's promise isn't included on literally everything. There are opponents - especially in Pre-TS - bound to be massively superior to Zoro and him inevitably losing. Enel, Kuma and Kizaru - those are instances of such match-ups.
Yeti Cool Brothers isn't a loss, Kizaru's is though.
You cannot be defeated without losing, that's a contradiction in itself. You get defeated in two rounds, you will lose. You get knocked out in a street fight, you lost. You are not beating the one in a car racing, you lost. And so on, and so on... There's hardly an argument you could make for Zoro not losing against Enel, especially since Enel was about to wipe out EVERYONE if it wasn't for Luffy. Zoro would have actually fucking died in this situation, along with everyone else in Skypia.
fight definition
1. take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.
2. a violent confrontation or struggle.
was a fight
was defeated
but it doesn't count against the promise cause oda probably is referring solely to his dedicated 1v1 fights( pica, king and the likes not kizaru , enel kaido etc) in which case other strawhats have a very high win rate in theirs as well . luffy loses a lot more than his crew does which I find funny.
all in all I think its a weird promise that needs to should have been more specific
1. take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.
2. a violent confrontation or struggle.
was a fight
was defeated
but it doesn't count against the promise cause oda probably is referring solely to his dedicated 1v1 fights( pica, king and the likes not kizaru , enel kaido etc) in which case other strawhats have a very high win rate in theirs as well . luffy loses a lot more than his crew does which I find funny.
all in all I think its a weird promise that needs to should have been more specific
